THIRD CONGRESS.—FIRST SESSION.

PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES

IN

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Monday, December 2, 1793.

This being the day appointed by the constitution for the meeting of the present Congress, the following members appeared and took their seats:

From New Hampshire.—Nicholas Gilman, John S. Sherburne, Jeremiah Smith, and Paine Wingate.

From Massachusetts.—Shearjashub Bourne, David Cobb, Henry Dearborn, Benjamin Goodhue, Samuel Holten, William Lyman, Theodore Sedgwick, George Thatcher, and Artemas Ward.

From Connecticut.—Amasa Learned, Uriah Tracey, Jonathan Trumbull, and Jeremiah Wadsworth.

From Vermont.—Israel Smith.

From New York.—Theodorus Bailey, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, James Gordon, Silas Talbot, John E. Van Allen, Philip Van Cortlandt, Peter Van Gaasbeck, and John Watts.

From New Jersey.—John Beatty, Elias Boudinot, Lambert Cadwalader, Abraham Clark, and Jonathan Dayton.

From Pennsylvania.—James Armstrong, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, William Irvine, John Wilkes Kittera, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, Peter Muhlenberg, Thomas Scott, and John Smilie.

From Maryland.—George Dent and Samuel Smith.

From Virginia.—William B. Giles, Carter B. Harrison, John Heath, Richard Bland Lee, James Madison, Andrew Moore, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Francis Preston, Robert Rutherford, Abraham Venable, and Francis Walker.

From Kentucky.—Christopher Greenup.

From North Carolina.—Thomas Blount, William Johnson Dawson, Matthew Looke, Nathaniel Macon, and Alexander Mebane.

From South Carolina.—William Smith.

From Georgia.—Abraham Baldwin and Thomas P. Carnes.

A quorum of the members being present, the House proceeded to ballot for a Speaker, when it appeared that Frederick A. Muhlenberg, one of the members from Pennsylvania, was elected; whereupon he was conducted to the chair; and made his acknowledgments to the House.[47]

The House then proceeded, in the same manner, to the appointment of a Clerk, when John Beckley was appointed.

The usual oath was then administered to the members.

Messages were interchanged between the two Houses, announcing their formation and readiness to proceed to business.

Joseph Wheaton was appointed Sergeant-at-Arms, Gifford Dally as Doorkeeper, and Thomas Claxton as Assistant Doorkeeper.

A joint committee was appointed by the two Houses to wait on the President of the United States, to inform him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communication that he may think proper to make to them.

Resolved, That two Chaplains, of different denominations, be appointed, one by each House, to interchange weekly.

Resolved, That a standing Committee of Elections be appointed; also a committee to report rules and orders of proceeding.

Tuesday, December 3.

Joseph McDowell and Benjamin Williams, from North Carolina, appeared, and took their seats.

A message from the Senate announced their readiness to receive the communication from the President of the United States. The Speaker and members withdrew to the Senate Chamber, where the President attended, and delivered his Speech to the two Houses, which will be found in the proceedings of the Senate.

On the return of the members, the Speech was committed to a Committee of the Whole.

Wednesday, December 4.

Peleg Coffin, Jr., from Massachusetts, William Montgomery, from Pennsylvania, and William Vans Murray, from Maryland, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to them by the Speaker, according to law.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Speech of the President of the United States to both Houses of Congress; and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had had the said Speech under consideration, and come to a resolution thereupon; which was twice read, and agreed to by the House, as follows:

Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee that a respectful Address ought to be presented by the House of Representatives to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, at the commencement of this session, containing assurances that this House will take into consideration the various and important matters recommended to their attention.

Ordered, That Messrs. Madison, Sedgwick, Watts, Hartley, and Samuel Smith, be appointed a committee to prepare an Address pursuant to the said resolution.

Thursday, December 5.

Mr. Madison, from the committee appointed, presented an Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; which was read, and ordered to be committed to a Committee of the whole House to-morrow.

Friday, December 6.

James Hillhouse, from Connecticut, and Josiah Parker, from Virginia, appeared, and took their seats.

Mr. William Smith, from the Standing Committee of Elections, reported that the committee had, in part, examined the certificates and other credentials of the members returned to serve in this House, and had agreed upon a report; which was read, and is as follows:

"It appears to your committee, that the credentials of the following members are sufficient to entitle them to take their seats in the House, to wit:"

[After enumerating the names of the members whose credentials were examined, the report concludes:]

"Your committee further report that, in the case of John Patton, returned as a member for the State of Delaware, the Executive of the said State have, together with the return, transmitted a protest, made to them by Henry Latimer, of the said State, against the return of the said John Patton."

Ordered, That the said report do lie on the table.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Address to the President of the United States, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had had the said Address under consideration, and made no amendment thereto.

Resolved, unanimously, That this House doth agree to the said Address, in the words following:

Sir: The Representatives of the people of the United States, in meeting you for the first time since you have been again called, by a unanimous suffrage, to your present station, find an occasion, which they embrace with no less sincerity than promptitude, for expressing to you their congratulations on so distinguished a testimony of public approbation, and their entire confidence in the purity and patriotism of the motives which have produced this obedience to the voice of your country. It is to virtues which have commanded long and universal reverence, and services from which have flowed great and lasting benefits, that the tribute of praise may be paid without the reproach of flattery; and it is from the same sources that the fairest anticipations may be derived in favor of the public happiness.

The United States having taken no part in the war which had embraced in Europe the Powers with whom they have the most extensive relations, the maintenance of peace was justly to be regarded as one of the most important duties of the Magistrate charged with the faithful execution of the laws. We accordingly witness, with approbation and pleasure, the vigilance with which you have guarded against an interruption of that blessing, by your Proclamation, admonishing our citizens of the consequences of illicit or hostile acts towards the belligerent parties; and promoting, by a declaration of the existing legal state of things, an easier admission of our right to the immunities belonging to our situation.

The connection of the United States with Europe has evidently become extremely interesting. The communications which remain to be exhibited to us will, no doubt, assist in giving us a fuller view of the subject, and in guiding our deliberations to such results as may comport with the rights and true interests of our country.

We learn, with deep regret, that the measures, dictated by a love of peace, for obtaining an amicable termination of the afflicting war on our frontiers, have been frustrated, and that a resort to offensive measures should have again become necessary. As the latter, however, must be rendered more satisfactory, in proportion to the solicitude for peace, manifested by the former, it is to be hoped they will be pursued under the better auspices, on that account, and be finally crowned with more happy success.

In relation to the particular tribe of Indians against whom offensive measures have been prohibited, as well as on all the other important subjects which you have presented to our view, we shall bestow the attention which they claim. We cannot, however, refrain, at this time, from particularly expressing our concurrence in your anxiety for the regular discharge of the public debts, as fast as circumstances and events will permit, and, in the policy of removing any impediments that may be found in the way of a faithful representation of public proceedings throughout the United States, being persuaded, with you, that on no subject more than the former can delay be more injurious, or an economy of time more valuable; and that, with respect to the latter, no resource is so firm for the Government of the United States as the affections of the people, guided by an enlightened policy.

Throughout our deliberations we shall endeavor to cherish every sentiment which may contribute to render them conducive to the dignity as well as to the welfare of the United States. And we join with you in imploring that Being, on whose will the fate of nations depends, to crown with success our mutual endeavors.

Resolved, That Mr. Speaker, attended by the House, do present the said Address, and that Mr. Madison, Mr. Sedgwick, and Mr. Hartley, be a committee to wait on the President, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the same.

Mr. Madison, from the committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States, to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress, reported that the committee had waited on the President, who signified to them that it would be convenient to him to receive the said Address at 12 o'clock, to-morrow, at his own house.

Saturday, December 7.

Peleg Wadsworth, from Massachusetts, and Joseph Neville, from Virginia, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats.

The Speaker, attended by the House, then withdrew to the house of the President of the United States, and there presented to him the Address of this House, in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; to which the President made the following reply:

Gentlemen: I shall not affect to conceal the cordial satisfaction which I derive from the Address of the House of Representatives. Whatsoever those services may be which you have sanctioned by your favor, it is a sufficient reward that they have been accepted as they were meant. For the fulfilment of your anticipations of the future, I can give no other assurance than that the motives which you approve shall continue unchanged.

It is truly gratifying to me to learn that the Proclamation has been considered as a seasonable guard against the interruption of the public peace. Nor can I doubt that the subjects which I have recommended to your attention as depending on Legislative provisions, will receive a discussion suited to their importance. With every reason, then, it may be expected that your deliberations, under the Divine blessing, will be matured to the honor and happiness of the United States.

G. WASHINGTON.

Monday, December 9.

Gabriel Christie, from Maryland, Thomas Claiborne and George Hancock, from Virginia, Joseph Winston, from North Carolina, John Hunter and Andrew Pickens, from South Carolina, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.

Tuesday, December 10.

The House resumed the reading of the communications received from the President of the United States, on Thursday last, and made a further progress therein.

Wednesday, December 11.

Benjamin Bourne and Francis Malbone, from Rhode Island, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.

Friday, December 13.

Thomas Tredwell, from New York, and John Patton, from Delaware, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats.

Ordered, That a committee be appointed to prepare and bring in a bill to establish a uniform system of bankruptcy throughout the United States; and that Mr. Giles, Mr. William Smith, Mr. Ames, Mr. Hartley, Mr. Hillhouse, Mr. Fitzsimons, and Mr. Boudinot, be the said committee.

Monday, December 16.

Samuel Dexter, Junior, from Massachusetts, Joshua Coit and Zephaniah Swift, from Connecticut, and Richard Winn, from South Carolina, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats.

Thursday, December 19.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of State, accompanying a report on the privileges and restrictions on the commerce of the United States in foreign countries, made pursuant to a resolution of the House of the twenty-third of February, one thousand seven hundred and ninety-one; which was read, and ordered to be committed to the Committee of the whole House, to whom are committed the confidential communications from the President respecting the measures which have been pursued for obtaining a recognition of the treaty between the United States and Morocco, and for the ransom of prisoners and establishment of peace with the Algerines.

Friday, December 20.

William Hindman, from Maryland, and Samuel Griffin, from Virginia, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats.

Monday, December 23.

Alexander D. Orr, from Kentucky, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.

Thursday, December 26.

A petition of Abram Trigg, of the State of Virginia, was presented to the House and read, complaining of an undue election and return of Francis Preston, to serve as a member of this House for the said State.

Ordered, That the said petition be referred to the Committee of Elections; that they do examine the matter thereof, and report the same, with their opinion thereon, to the House.

Friday, December 27.

Daniel Heister, from Pennsylvania, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.

Wednesday, January 1, 1794.

Uriah Forrest and Thomas Sprigg, from Maryland, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.

Thursday, January 2.

Isaac Coles, from Virginia, and William Barry Grove, from North Carolina, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.

Friday, January 3.

Commerce of the United States.[48]

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Report of the Secretary of State on the privileges and restrictions on the commerce of the United States in foreign countries.

Mr. Madison, after some general observations on the report, entered into a more particular consideration of the subject. He remarked, that the commerce of the United States is not, at this day, on that respectable footing to which, from its nature and importance, it is entitled. He recurred to its situation previous to the adoption of the constitution, when conflicting systems prevailed in the different States. The then existing state of things gave rise to that Convention of Delegates from the different parts of the Union, who met to deliberate on some general principles for the regulation of commerce, which might be conducive, in their operation, to the general welfare, and that such measures should be adopted as would conciliate the friendship and good faith of those countries who were disposed to enter into the nearest commercial connections with us. But what has been the result of the system which has been pursued ever since? What is the present situation of our commerce? From the situation in which we find ourselves after four years' experiment, he observed, that it appeared incumbent on the United States to see whether they could not now take measures promotive of those objects for which the Government was in a great degree instituted. Measures of moderation, firmness, and decision, he was persuaded, were now necessary to be adopted, in order to narrow the sphere of our commerce with those nations who see proper not to meet us on terms of reciprocity.

Mr. M. then read the following resolutions:

[The principle of these resolutions will be best seen in the debates upon them.]

Mr. M. took a general view of the probable effects which the adoption of something like the resolutions he had proposed, would produce. They would produce, respecting many articles imported, a competition which would enable countries who do not now supply us with those articles, to do it, and would increase the encouragement on such as we can produce within ourselves. We should also obtain an equitable share in carrying our own produce; we should enter into the field of competition on equal terms, and enjoy the actual benefit of advantages which nature and the spirit of our people entitle us to.

He adverted to the advantageous situation this country is entitled to stand in, considering the nature of our exports and returns. Our exports are bulky, and therefore must employ much shipping, which might be nearly all our own: our exports are chiefly necessaries of life, or raw materials, the food for the manufacturers of other nations. On the contrary, the chief of what we receive from other countries, we can either do without, or produce substitutes.

It is in the power of the United States, he conceived, by exerting her natural rights, without violating the rights, or even the equitable pretensions of other nations—by doing no more than most nations do for the protection of their interests, and much less than some, to make her interests respected; for, what we receive from other nations are but luxuries to us, which, if we choose to throw aside, we could deprive part of the manufacturers of those luxuries, of even bread, if we are forced to the contest of self-denial. This being the case, our country may make her enemies feel the extent of her power. We stand, with respect to the nation exporting those luxuries, in the relation of an opulent individual to the laborer, in producing the superfluities for his accommodation; the former can do without those luxuries, the consumption of which gives bread to the latter.

He did not propose, or wish that the United States should at present go so far in the line which his resolutions point to, as they might go. The extent to which the principles involved in those resolutions should be carried, will depend upon filling up the blanks. To go to the very extent of the principle immediately, might be inconvenient. He wished, only, that the Legislature should mark out the ground on which we think we can stand; perhaps it may produce the effect wished for, without unnecessary irritation; we need not at first go every length.

Another consideration would induce him, he said, to be moderate in filling up the blanks—not to wound public credit. He did not wish to risk any sensible diminution of the public revenue. He believed that if the blanks were filled with judgment, the diminution of the revenue, from a diminution in the quantity of imports, would be counterbalanced by the increase in the duties.

The last resolution he had proposed, he said, is, in a manner, distinct from the rest. The nation is bound by the most sacred obligation, he conceived, to protect the rights of its citizens against a violation of them from any quarter; or, if they cannot protect, they are bound to repay the damage.

It is a fact authenticated to this House by communications from the Executive, that there are regulations established by some European nations; contrary to the Law of Nations, by which our property is seized and disposed of in such a way that damages have accrued. We are bound either to obtain reparation for the injustice, or compensate the damage. It is only in the first instance, no doubt, that the burden is to be thrown upon the United States. The proper department of Government will, no doubt, take proper steps to obtain redress. The justice of foreign nations will certainly not permit them to deny reparation when the breach of the Law of Nations appears evidently; at any rate, it is just that the individual should not suffer. He believed the amount of the damages that would come within the meaning of this resolution, would not be very considerable.

Mr. M.'s resolutions being seconded, were presented and read by the Clerk.

Mr. W. Smith rose to make some remarks on the observations of Mr. Madison, when a motion was made by Mr. Fitzsimons, that the committee should rise, and report progress, and that the House should give order for printing the resolutions.

After some further remarks by two or three members, Mr. Madison said he had no wish to precipitate the discussion; he was content that the committee should now rise, and that a future early day should be assigned.

Monday, January 6.

James Gillespie, from North Carolina, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.

Pay of Soldiers.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill for completing and better supporting the Military Establishment of the United States. The bill being read,

On the clause of the bill for augmenting the pay of the soldiers from three to four dollars per month, Mr. Irvine proposed an addition of a fifth dollar, which seemed to meet the unanimous sense of the members; but Mr. Clark thought this last augmentation too great. They might, in this way of proceeding, raise the pay in time to ten dollars a month.

Mr. Scott was of opinion that there was no just proportion between the wages of ordinary labor and that of military service. He could not hire a workman, who was to sleep at peace in his bed, and to dine at a good table, for the pay that was given to a soldier for enduring the hardships of his dangerous profession. An augmentation of their pay would flatter the troops. It would put them in good humor; and therefore he hoped that the five dollars would be carried through the House.

Mr. Smilie said, that the expense of living had been considerably raised in every part of the United States. The pay of the soldiers ought, in common justice, to be advanced in an equal degree with that of the other persons employed in the service of the State. Congress had lately received a petition from some gentlemen employed in the public offices of Philadelphia. The officers of the army had been talking of a similar necessity of an advance in their pay. The United States ought to pay well, that they might obtain good men. Many recruits had, upon late occasions, enlisted, and several of them in Philadelphia, who never should have been admitted into the Military Establishment of any nation whatever.

Mr. Wadsworth did not see any reason for the proposed additional dollar per month. If he had thought it necessary, he should have been very ready to mention it. In the States north of Pennsylvania, the wages of a common laborer were not, upon the whole, superior to those of a common soldier. It had been alleged that, by augmenting the pay of the troops, we should get better men. This was a doctrine which he, for one, did not understand. The present Western Army were as good troops as ever went into the field, and much better than the late Continental Army. Men of a sober character did not and would not enlist. Recruits might have very good morals, and it was certain that many honest men did not love labor. Curiosity, levity, the heat of youth, and other very excusable motives, sent people to the army; but it never was, nor never will be, the place where a thoughtful and industrious private man would be ambitious to exert his talents. For this reason, he was convinced that to enlarge the pay would answer no good purpose. As to the militia, who were, many of them, substantial people, it was in vain to imagine that they would fulfil the end of an army in the Indian war. They had been tried, and the experiment had failed. He again adverted to the impossibility of supplying the ranks with recruits above the most ordinary classes of life. He never had seen an army, such as it was believed that the additional dollar would assemble, and he despaired ever to see such an army. There was, however, an act of bounty, which might be of infinite service to the troops, and which he should take a future opportunity of moving. He referred to a provision for the widows and children of such soldiers as should happen to lose their lives in the service.

Mr. Boudinot said, that he should be very sorry to recommend the augmentation, if he thought that it would induce farmers, and sober, industrious people to quit their families and professions in exchange for a military life. This, he thought, would indeed be a very alarming consequence, and, did he apprehend it, he should undoubtedly oppose the intended increase. He had no apprehensions of that kind. America would be in a very bad situation, indeed, if an additional pay of twelve dollars a year could bribe a farmer or manufacturer to enlist. He should look very strange at any of his neighbors who should tell him that they had embraced such an offer. Instead of augmenting the pay, perhaps it was better to add something to the rations; those, for example, of salt and flour. He thought it safest to agree to the four dollars, because if they voted for five, the bill would probably be thrown out of the other House; and thus, by grasping at too much, the movers of the amendment would lose the bill altogether. Originally, troops had been raised for less than two dollars per month. The pay had since been augmented to three, and was now on the way of being raised to four. He wished to make its advances gradual. If we looked at the situations of other countries, and contemplated the state of their finances, we should be convinced that America paid her troops as well in proportion to her ability as any other people in the world, and that her soldiers had no right to complain.

Mr. Montgomery spoke a few words in favor of an advance to five dollars.

Mr. Scott said, that Pennsylvania had some time ago raised a few companies of soldiers for her frontier service, and given them two pounds ten shillings currency per month, which was equal to six dollars and two-thirds. In consequence of this, the companies had been filled with some of the most respectable kind of people in the country. They were quite of a different class from the recruits raised for the Western Army. He wished to try the five dollars. This superior pay was reported to have hurt the Continental recruiting service. He thought it very possible that such had been the case. If Government give the proposed five dollars, the Continental Army might, perhaps, get all the levies which it wanted from these very companies.

Mr. Hunter would have voted for six dollars.

Mr. Beatty said, that he was for giving five dollars, from a conviction that it was requisite for the service.

Mr. Smilie was decidedly for the additional augmentation. The recruits, he said, who had been raised in this city were sad fellows, and not fit to be trusted. Better pay would bring forward better men.

Mr. Smith said that, as to the rate of labor, good men were hired to work in Vermont for eighteen pounds a year, which is equal to four dollars per month, and out of that they find their own clothes. He thought it a very dangerous plan to raise the wages of soldiers at this time, when every article was above its natural price; because, when things return to their old level, it would be impossible to reduce their wages. The people of Europe had, by their wars, increased the demand for the produce of our farms, and this had raised the wages of labor. The members of Congress had six dollars per day, and it would be no easy matter to alter that, which he seemed to hint might not be quite improper. He thought that high pay would only serve to make the soldiers get drunk. It would be much better to give them some substantial gratification at the end of the service.

Mr. Wadsworth said that the army, in getting four dollars, got plenty, and he despaired of seeing five dollars pass through that House; but, were they to vote twenty dollars, they never would be able to enlist that class of men whom it was expected five dollars would collect. A member had mentioned, as a proof of the possibility of enlisting the sons of farmers, the instance of a party in one of the New England States, who had formed themselves into a military body, and had gone westward in quest of a settlement, but were cut to pieces by the Indians. He knew this; and he had likewise heard of others who had since gone from the same quarter, and upon the same errand. He had inquired about their characters, and had found, just as he had expected, that they were very honest, good sort of people, but somewhat of a rambling disposition, and not remarkably industrious. As to the notion of enlisting men, and attaching them to their country, by five dollars a month, it would not do. The old Continental Army were very good soldiers, but certainly some of them did not fight for the sake of their country, since they deserted by scores. They were, however, brought back, and fought very well. Their reasons for deserting, he did not pretend to know; but this he knew, that they were very idle and very worthless fellows, which did not hinder them from doing their duty. Mr. W. added, that it was a mistake to propose giving five dollars a month for fear that we should not be able to get recruits. In a short time our communication by sea would be cut off. We would likewise be prevented from emigrations into the back country. Recruits would then be had in the greatest abundance for four dollars a month, as great numbers of people would then be thrown out of employment, and enlist for want of it.

The amendment to the bill, of adding two dollars instead of one, was rejected.

Mr. Clark then moved, as an amendment of the bill, that there should be an addition of four ounces of bread or flour, and four ounces of meat to each ration.

Mr. Hartley was for augmenting the rations. He knew that they were too small. In cultivated countries they might do, but not in the backwoods, where vegetables were not to be had.

Mr. Wadsworth was convinced that the rations were sufficient unless on a march. He spoke, he said, from experience.

Mr. Giles had been frequently informed by officers in the army, that the rations were all defective. In the backwoods, the soldiers had been often reduced to such distress for want of vegetables, as to go in search of acorns to supply their place.

Mr. Fitzsimons said, that he had been informed that the principal objection to the rations was the inferior quality of the meat, and that this arose from the leanness of the cattle, as being exhausted by hard driving. Instead, therefore, of a regular increase, it might perhaps be better to provide for accidental contingencies.

Mr. Murray moved, and his motion was seconded, to amend the amendment by striking out the words, and "four ounces of meat."

Mr. Smith said, that an aide-de-camp, who was his relation, and now serving in the army, had wrote him that they were just now well fed, well clothed, in good health, and as good spirits as an army had ever enjoyed. The reason of the common rations of provisions failing in a march, was owing to the waste in cooking. The amendment of Mr. Clark, and the additional amendment of Mr. Murray, were both withdrawn.

The committee now rose and reported the amendment, and the bill and amendment were ordered to lie on the table.

Resolved, That a committee be appointed to report whether any, and what, alteration ought to be made in the ration now allowed to the troops of the United States; and that Mr. Irvine, Mr. Dearborn, and Mr. Heister, be the said committee.

Tuesday, January 7.

Flag of the United States.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate, entitled "An act making an alteration in the Flag of the United States."

Mr. Goodhue thought it a trifling business, which ought not to engross the attention of the House, when it was their duty to discuss matters of infinitely greater consequence. If we are to alter the flag from thirteen to fifteen stripes, with two additional stars, because Vermont and Kentucky have been added, we may go on adding and altering at this rate for one hundred years to come. It is very likely, before fifteen years elapse, we shall consist of twenty States. The flag ought to be permanent.

Mr. Lyman was of a different opinion. He thought it of the greatest consequence not to offend the new States.

Mr. Thatcher ridiculed the idea of being at so much trouble, as a consummate specimen of frivolity. At this rate, every State should alter its public seal when an additional county or township was formed. He was sorry to see the House take up their time with such trifles.

Mr. Greenup considered it of very great consequence to inform the rest of the world that we had now two additional States.

Mr. Niles was very sorry that such a matter should even for a moment have hindered the House from going into more important affairs. He did not think the alteration either worth the trouble of adopting or rejecting; but he supposed that the shortest way to get rid of it was to agree to it, and for that reason, and no other, he advised to pass it as soon as possible.

The committee agreed to it, and the Chairman reported the bill. The House then took it up.

Mr. Boudinot thought it of consequence to keep the citizens of Vermont and Kentucky in good humor. They might be affronted at our rejecting the bill.

Mr. Goodhue said, he felt for the honor of the House, when spending their time on such sort of business. But, since it must be passed, he had only to beg this favor, that it might not appear upon the journals, and go into the world as the first of the bills passed this session.

Mr. Madison was for the bill passing.

Mr. Giles thought it very proper that the idea should be preserved of the number of our States, and the number of stripes corresponding. The expense was but trifling, compared with that of forming the Government of a new State.

Mr. Smith said, that this alteration would cost him five hundred dollars, and every vessel in the Union sixty. He could not conceive what the Senate meant by sending them such bills. He supposed that it must be for want of something better to do. He should indulge them, but let us have no more alterations of this sort. Let the flag be permanent.

It was ordered that the bill be read a third time to-morrow.

Friday, January 10.

French Emigrants from St. Domingo.

Mr. Samuel Smith, from the committee to whom was referred the petition of William Patterson, Samuel Sterrett, and Gustavus Scott, the committee appointed by the Legislature of Maryland to draw and distribute the moneys granted by that State for the relief of the French emigrants from the Island of St. Domingo, made a report:

Mr. S. Smith said, that there never was a more noble and prompt display of the most exalted feelings, than had been exhibited on this occasion. He believed that such a scene of distress had never before been seen in America. Three thousand fugitives had been at once landed, without the least previous expectation of their arrival. The whole inhabitants instantly assembled, and deputed a committee, of which he was one, to go on board the vessels, and examine their situation. Thirteen thousand dollars were instantly subscribed. Fifteen hundred of these people were quite helpless; three hundred and fifty of them were old men, or women without their husbands, or children without their parents. Some had credit, and some had not. Five hundred of them had been sent to France by the Minister, at the expense of the Republic; the rest remain in this country.

Mr. Madison wished to relieve the sufferers, but was afraid of establishing a dangerous precedent, which might hereafter be perverted to the countenance of purposes very different from those of charity. He acknowledged, for his own part, that he could not undertake to lay his finger on that article in the Federal Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. And if once they broke the line laid down before them, for the direction of their conduct, it was impossible to say to what lengths they might go, or to what extremities this practice might be carried. He did not agree with the member who spoke last, that nothing like the generosity of America had ever been heard of before. As one example in contradiction to this assertion, he mentioned, that when the city of Lisbon had, in 1755, been overwhelmed by an earthquake, the Parliament of England instantly voted one hundred thousand pounds for the support of the sufferers. In doing this, they had, he believed, acted in unison with the feelings of the British nation, and such feelings did that nation the utmost honor. He likewise imagined, that the Parliament had acted agreeably to the British Constitution, which allowed them an indefinite and absolute right in disposing of the money of their constituents. But as to the American Congress, the case was widely different. He was satisfied that the citizens of the United States possessed an equal degree of magnanimity, generosity, and benevolence, with the people of Britain, but this House certainly did not possess an undefined authority correspondent with that of a British Parliament. He wished that some other mode could be devised for assisting the French sufferers than by an act of Congress. He was in hopes that some other mode, equally effectual, and less exceptionable, might be devised. As to what our Executive Government had already done, as quoted from the official despatches by the gentleman who spoke last, the inference did not apply; for in that emergency, a delay would have been equivalent to a total denial. It had been said, that we owed the French every sentiment of gratitude. It was true; but it was likewise true that we owed them something else than sentiments, for we were indebted to them a very large sum of money. One of the instalments of that debt would be due in a short time, and perhaps it might be safest for Congress to advance the sums now wanted for the French refugees, in part of that debt, and leave it to the decision of the French Ministry whether they would accept of such a payment or not. He did not wish to press this expedient upon the House, but he begged leave to submit it to their consideration; and as he had not yet been able to resolve in his own mind what line of conduct the House ought to pursue, he requested that the discussion of the question might for a short time be deferred.

Mr. Clark wished that the gentleman who spoke last would be careful of preserving consistency. It was only a few days ago that he had laid before the House a resolution, by which Congress were to indemnify all such citizens of the United States as had suffered losses by the British pirates. He supposed that for this, there would be found as little authority in the articles of the constitution, as for relieving the fugitives from Cape François.

Mr. Madison, in explanation, replied, that the two cases were widely different. The vessels of America sailed under our flag, and were under our protection, by the law of nations, which the French sufferers unquestionably were not. As to the resolution he had proposed, it was not then before the House, and hence he could not speak to it with propriety. It was very possible that the House might find it wrong, and reject it. He wished not to be misunderstood, for he was sure that every member in that House felt the warmest sympathy with the situation of the sufferers. He would be very glad to find a proper way for their relief.

Mr. Nicholas said, that he had not been able to discover upon what authority the House were to grant the proposed donation. If the question should that day come to a vote, which he trusted it would not, he had resolved to give his voice in favor of the sufferers: but, when he returned to his constituents, he would honestly tell them that he considered himself as having exceeded his powers, and so cast himself on their mercy. He felt many obstacles to voting away this money without further deliberation.

Mr. Boudinot declared, that he had never been able to discover any difficulty in the matter. By the law of nature, by the law of nations—in a word, by every moral obligation that could influence mankind, we were bound to relieve the citizens of a Republic who were at present our allies, and who had formerly been our benefactors. He could not for a moment endure the idea of a hesitation on such a question. When a number of our fellow-creatures had been cast upon our sympathy, in a situation of such unexampled wretchedness, was it possible that gentlemen could make a doubt whether it was our duty to relieve them? It had been said that the House was not, by the constitution, authorized to give away money for such purposes. He was satisfied, that to refuse the assistance requested, would be to act in direct opposition both to the theory and practice of the constitution. In the first place, as to the practice, it had been said that nothing of this kind had ever occurred before under the Federal Constitution. He was astonished at such an affirmation. Did not the Indians frequently come down to this city, on embassies respecting the regulating of trade, and other business—and did not the Executive, without consulting Congress at all, pay their lodgings for weeks, nay, for whole months together? and was not this merely because the Indians were unable to pay for themselves? Nobody ever questioned the propriety of that act of charity. Again; when prisoners of war were taken, there was no clause in the constitution authorizing Congress to provide for their subsistence: yet it was well known that they would not be suffered to starve. Provision was instantly made for them, before we could tell whether the nation to whom they belonged would pay such expenses, or would not pay them. It was very true that an instalment would soon be due to France, nor did he object to reimbursement in that way, if it could be so obtained. But, in the mean time, relief must be given, for he was convinced that he had still stronger obligations to support the citizens of our allies than either Indians or prisoners of war. In the second place, as to the theory of the constitution, he referred gentlemen to the first clause of the eighth section of it. By that clause Congress were warranted to provide for exigencies regarding the general welfare, and he was sure this case came under that description.

Mr. Fitzsimons thought that it would be expedient to lose as little time as possible in going into the committee. It was hard on the State of Maryland to support of itself such an immense number of people. Besides, the period for which that State had engaged to furnish them with subsistence was expiring; so that it was absolutely necessary to come to an early decision whether the House would assist them or not. Mr. Genet had made a discrimination among the sufferers; some of them he had promised to assist, and others, as aristocrats, he had disowned altogether.

Mr. Dexter read the clause referred to by Mr. Boudinot, but could not draw from it any such inference. He was very unwilling to vote against the proposition, and therefore solicited a delay, that he might have leisure to find proper reasons for voting in its favor.

Mr. Giles was averse to precipitation in an affair of such magnitude. The report had been read for a first time to-day; it had then been read for a second time to-day. As if all this had not been sufficient, the House must likewise go into a committee this day. Like the gentleman who had just sat down, he felt many doubts as to the legality of such an act of bounty; and he wished, before he gave a vote on either side of the question, to free himself from these doubts. He considered duty to his constituents as a very solemn trust. Some personal insinuations had been cast out, as if gentlemen who professed constitutional scruples had wished to embarrass the subject. Reflections of this kind could answer no good purpose. Gentlemen (said Mr. G.) appeal to our humanity. The appeal is out of place. That is not the question; but whether, organized as we are, under the constitution, we have a right to make such a grant? He did not understand why an application was made to Congress in particular. It would have been made with greater propriety to the Provincial Assemblies, as their power over the purses of their constituents was more extensive than that of this House over the revenues of the United States.

[The motion for the House resolving itself into a committee immediately was then withdrawn, and the report was committed to a Committee of the Whole on the state of the Union.]

Monday, January 13.

Commerce of the United States.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Report of the Secretary of State on the privileges and restrictions on the commerce of the United States, in foreign countries, when

Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) rose and addressed the Chair as follows:

Mr. Chairman: Among the various duties which are assigned by the constitution to the Legislature of the United States, there is, perhaps, none of a more important nature than the regulation of commerce, none more generally interesting to our fellow-citizens, none which more seriously claims our diligent and accurate investigation.

It so essentially involves our navigating, agricultural, commercial, and manufacturing interest, that an apology for the prolixity of the observations which I am about to submit to the committee, will scarcely be requisite.

In the view which I shall take of the question, disengaging the inquiry from all topics of a political nature, I shall strictly confine myself to those which are commercial, and which alone are, in my judgment, properly connected with the subject.

Called upon to decide on propositions, merely commercial, and springing from a report, in its nature limited to commercial regulations, it would be as ill-timed, as it would be irregular, to mingle with the discussion considerations of a political nature. I shall, accordingly, reject from the inquiry every idea which has reference to the Indians, the Algerines, or the Western posts. Whenever those subjects require our deliberations, I shall not yield to any member in readiness to vindicate the honor of our country, and to concur in such measures as our best interests may demand.

This line of procedure will, I trust, be deemed by those gentlemen who follow me, the only proper one, and that the debate will be altogether confined to commercial views; these will of themselves open a field of discussion sufficiently spacious, without the intervention of arguments derived from other sources. It would indeed argue a weakness of ground in the friends of the propositions, and imply a distrust of the merits of their cause, were they compelled to bolster it up with such auxiliaries, and to resort for support to arguments, not resulting from the nature of the subject, but from irrelative and extraneous considerations.

The propositions, as well as the report, being predicated upon facts and principles having relation to our commerce and navigation with foreign countries, by those facts and principles, and those alone, ought the propositions to stand or fall.

It will not be denied that this country is at present in a very delicate crisis, and one requiring dispassionate reflection, cool and mature deliberation. It will be much to be regretted then, if passion should usurp the place of reason, if superficial, narrow, and prejudiced views should mislead the public councils from the true path of national interest.

The report of the Secretary of State, on the privileges and restrictions on the commerce of the United States in foreign countries is now before the committee. The tendency of that report (whatever may have been the design of the reporter) appears to be to induce a false estimate of the comparative condition of our commerce with certain foreign nations, and to urge the Legislature to adopt a scheme of retaliating, regulations, restrictions, and exclusions.

The most striking contrast which the performance evidently aims at, is between Great Britain and France. For this reason, and as these are the two Powers with whom we have the most extensive relations in trade, I shall, by a particular investigation of the subject, endeavor to lay before the committee an accurate and an impartial comparison of the commercial systems of the two countries in reference to the United States, as a test of the solidity of the inferences which are attempted to be established by the report. A fair comparison can only be made with an eye to what may be deemed the permanent system of the countries in question. The proper epoch for it, therefore, will precede the commencement of the pending French Revolution.

The commercial regulations of France during the period of the Revolution have been too fluctuating, too much influenced by momentary impulses, and, as far as they have looked towards this country with a favorable eye, too much manifesting an object of the moment, which cannot be mistaken to consider them as a part of a system. But though the comparison will be made with principal reference to the condition of our trade with France and Great Britain, antecedent to the existing revolution, the regulations of the subsequent period will perhaps not be passed over altogether unnoticed.

The table which I have before me comprises the principal features of the subject within a short compass. It is the work of a gentleman of considerable commercial knowledge, and I believe may be relied on for its correctness. An attentive reference to it will, with some supplementary remarks, convey a just conception of the object; a view to conciseness and simplicity has excluded from it all articles (the production and manufactures of the United States) which are not of considerable importance.

Accustomed as our ears have been to a constant panegyric on the generous policy of France towards this country in commercial relations, and to as constant a philippic on the unfriendly, illiberal, and persecuting policy of Great Britain towards us in the same relations, we naturally expect to find in a table which exhibits their respective systems, numerous discriminations in that of France in our favor, and many valuable privileges granted to us, which are refused to other foreign countries; in that of Great Britain frequent discriminations to our prejudice, and a variety of privileges refused to us which are granted to other foreign nations. But an inspection of the table will satisfy every candid mind, that the reverse of what has been supposed is truly the case—that neither in France nor the French West Indies, is there more than one solitary and important distinction in our favor, (I mean the article of fish oil,) either with regard to our exports thither, our imports from thence, or our shipping; that both in Great Britain and the British West Indies, there are several material distinctions in our favor, with regard both to our exports thither and to our imports from thence, and, as it respects Great Britain, with regard also to our shipping; that in the market of Great Britain, a preference is secured to six of our most valuable staples, by considerably higher duties on the rival articles of other foreign countries; that our navigation thither is favored by our ships, when carrying our own productions, being put upon as good a footing as their own ships, and by the exemption of several of our productions, when carried in our ships, from duties which are paid on the like articles of other foreign countries carried in the ships of those countries; and that several of our productions may be carried from the United States to the British West Indies, while the like productions cannot be carried thither from any other foreign country; and that several of the productions of those countries may be brought from thence to the United States, which cannot be carried from thence to any other foreign country.

Tuesday, January 14.

Commerce of the United States.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Report of the Secretary of State on the privileges and restrictions on the commerce of the United States in foreign countries; when Mr. Madison rose in reply to Mr. Smith, of South Carolina.

Mr. M. began by observing that he had expected, from what was intimated yesterday, the sequel of what was then said against the resolutions before the committee; but, as there was a silence in that quarter, and no other member has risen on either side of the question, he himself would request the attention of the committee.

It had been much pressed that, in the discussion of this subject, it should be viewed in its commercial relations only. He was perfectly willing to meet every objection that could be urged on that ground; but, as he conceived it impossible to do full justice to the interests of the United States without taking some collateral considerations into view, he should be obliged, in the course of his remarks, to point at the political disposition and conduct of some of the nations of Europe towards this country.

The propositions immediately before the committee turned on the question, whether any thing ought to be done at this time, in the way of commercial regulations, towards vindicating and advancing our national interests. Perhaps it might be made a question with some, whether, in any case, legislative regulations of commerce were consistent with its nature and prosperity.

He professed himself to be a friend to the theory which gives to industry a free course, under the impulse of individual interest and the guidance of individual sagacity. He was persuaded that it would be happy for all nations, if the barriers erected by prejudice, by avarice, and by despotism, were broken down, and a free intercourse established among them. Yet to this, as to all other general rules, there might be exceptions; and the rule itself required what did not exist—that it should be general.

To illustrate this observation, he referred to the Navigation Act of Great Britain, which, not being counterbalanced by any similar acts on the part of rival nations, had secured to Great Britain no less than eleven-twelfths of the shipping and seamen employed in her trade. It is stated that, in 1660, when the British act passed, the foreign tonnage was to the British, as one to four; in 1700, less than one to six; in 1725, as one to nineteen; in 1750, as one to twelve; in 1774, nearly the same. At the commencement of the period, the tonnage was but 95,266 tons; at the end of it, 1,136,162.

As another illustration, he mentioned the case where two countries happened to be in such a relation to each other, that the one, by discouraging the manufactures of the other, might not only invigorate its own, but transplant the manufacturers themselves. Here the gain would be a clear one, and the effect evidently consistent with the principle of the theory.

To allow trade to regulate itself is not, therefore, to be admitted as a maxim universally sound. Our own experience has taught us that, in certain cases, it is the same thing with allowing one nation to regulate it for another. Were the United States, in fact, in commercial intercourse with one nation only, and to oppose no restrictions whatever to a system of foreign restrictions, they would, of necessity, be deprived of all share in the carriage, although their vessels might be able to do it cheapest, as well as of the only resources for defence on that side where they must always be most exposed to attack. A small burden only in foreign ports on American vessels, and a perfect equality of foreign vessels with our own in our own ports, would gradually banish the latter altogether.

The subject, as had been remarked on a former occasion, was not a novel one; it was coeval with our political birth, and has at all times exercised the thoughts of reflecting citizens. As early as the year succeeding the peace, the effect of the foreign policy, which began to be felt in our trade and navigation, excited universal attention and inquietude. The first effort thought of was an application of Congress to the States for a grant of power, for a limited time, to regulate our foreign commerce, with a view to control the influence of unfavorable regulations in some cases, and to conciliate an extension of favorable ones in others. From some circumstances then incident to our situation, and particularly from a radical vice in the then political system of the United States, the experiment did not take effect.

The States next endeavored to effect their purpose by separate but concurrent regulations. Massachusetts opened a correspondence with Virginia and other States, in order to bring about the plan. Here, again, the effort was abortive.

Out of this experience grew the measures which terminated in the establishment of a Government competent to the regulation of our commercial interests and the vindication of our commercial rights.

As these were the first objects of the people in the steps taken for establishing the present Government, they were universally expected to be among the first fruits of its operation. In this expectation, the public were disappointed. An attempt was made in different forms, and received the repeated sanction of this branch of the Legislature, but they expired in the Senate—not, indeed, as was alleged, from a dislike to the attempt altogether, but the modifications given to it. It has not appeared, however, that it was ever renewed in a different form in that House, and for some time it has been allowed to sleep in both.

If the reasons which originally prevailed against measures such as those now proposed had weight in them, they can no longer furnish a pretext for opposition.

When the subject was discussed in the first Congress, at New York, it was said that we ought to try the effect of a generous policy towards Great Britain; that we ought to give time for negotiating a treaty of commerce; that we ought to await the close of negotiations for explaining and executing the treaty of peace. We have now waited a term of more than four years. The treaty of peace remains unexecuted on her part, though all pretext for delay has been removed by the steps taken on ours; no treaty of commerce is either in train or in prospect; instead of relaxations in former articles complained of, we suffer new and aggravated violations of our rights.

In the view which he took of the subject, he called the attention of the committee particularly to the subject of navigation, of manufactures, and of the discrimination proposed in the motion between some nations and others.

On the subject of navigation, he observed that we were prohibited by the British laws from carrying to Great Britain the produce of other countries from their ports, or our own produce from the ports of other countries, or the produce of other countries from our own ports, or to send our own produce from our own or other ports in the vessels of other countries. This last restriction was, he observed, felt by the United States at the present moment. It was, indeed, the practice of Great Britain, sometimes to relax her Navigation Act so far, in time of war, as to permit to neutral vessels a circuitous carriage; but, as yet, the act was in full force against the use of them for transporting the produce of the United States.

On the other hand, the laws of the United States allowed Great Britain to bring into their ports any thing she might please, from her own or from other ports, and in her own or in other vessels.

In the trade between the United States and the British West Indies, the vessels of the former were under an absolute prohibition, whilst British vessels in that trade enjoyed all the privileges granted to others, even the most favored nations, in their trade with us. The inequality in this case was the more striking, as it was evident that the West Indies were dependent on the United States for the supplies essential to them, and that the circumstances which secured to the United States this advantage, enabled their vessels to transport the supplies on far better terms than could be done by British vessels.

It might be regarded (he observed) as a general rule, that, where one nation consumed the necessaries of life produced by another, the consuming nation was dependent on the producing one. On the other hand, where the consumption consisted of superfluities, the producing nation was dependent on the consuming one. The United States were in the fortunate situation of enjoying both these advantages over Great Britain. They supply a part of her dominions with the necessaries of life; they consume superfluities which give bread to her people in another part. Great Britain, therefore, is under a double dependence on the commerce of the United States. She depends on them for what she herself consumes; she depends on them for what they consume. In proportion as a nation manufactures luxuries must be its disadvantages in contests of every sort with its customers. The reason is obvious. What is a luxury to the consumer is a necessary to the manufacturer. By changing a fashion or disappointing a fancy only, bread may be taken from the mouths of thousands whose industry is devoted to the gratification of artificial wants. He mentioned the case of a petition from a great body of buckle makers, presented a few years ago to the Prince of Wales, complaining of the use of strings instead of buckles in the shoes, and supplicating his Royal Highness, as giving the law to fashions, to save them from want and misery by discontinuing the new one. It was not (he observed) the Prince who petitioned the manufacturers to continue to make the buckles, but the manufacturers who petitioned their customer to buy them. The relation was similar between the American customers and the British manufacturers; and if a law were to pass for putting a stop to the use of their superfluities, or a stop were otherwise to be put to it, it would quickly be seen from which the distress and supplications would flow. Suppose that Great Britain received from us alone the whole of the necessaries she consumes, and that our market alone took off the luxuries with which she paid for them: here the dependence would be complete, and we might impose whatever terms we please on the exchange. This, to be sure, is not absolutely the case; but, in proportion as it is the case, her dependence is on us. The West Indies, however, are an example of complete dependence. They cannot subsist without our food. They cannot flourish without our lumber and our use of their rum. On the other hand, we depend on them for not a single necessary, and can supply ourselves with their luxuries from other sources. Sugar is the only article about which there was ever a question; and he was authorized to say that there was not, at the most, one-sixth of our consumption supplied from the British islands. In time of war or famine the dependence of the West Indies is felt in all its energy. It is sometimes such as to appeal to our humanity as well as our interest for relief. At this moment the Governor of Jamaica is making proclamation of their distresses. If ever, therefore, there was a case where one country could dictate to another the regulations of trade between them, it is the case of the United States and the British West Indies. And yet the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Smith) had considered it as a favor that we were allowed to send our provisions in British bottoms, and in these only, to the West Indies.

Wednesday, January 15.

Commerce of the United States.

A proposition being made to go into a Committee of the Whole on Mr. Madison's resolutions,

The House then went into committee.

Mr. Forrest, after a long pause, observed, that, as no other person appeared disposed to rise on the occasion, although he felt himself unequal to doing that justice to the subject which many others were, yet he considered it his duty to offer a few remarks which had occurred to him in the course of the debate.

In all our discussions of commercial affairs, the principal point to be kept in view was the promotion of the essential and permanent interests of our country, keeping in mind this maxim, (as true in respect to nations as individuals,) that there is no friendship in trade. He then entered into a consideration of our commercial connection with Great Britain, and observed that we should avoid letting our former prejudices, or those arising from recent transactions, influence our judgments. We should not regard the favoring of the French or British nation, but study to do that which would tend to the promotion of our own commerce and the interest of our own navigation. In this pursuit, we must keep in view our relative situation with European nations, particularly those of France and Great Britain, and more particularly the latter, with whom the proposed resolutions contemplate a change. Of all possible times, (said he,) I believe this the most improper to try the experiment.

If the British Government have been instrumental in letting the Algerines loose upon us; if their privateers commit acts of piracy upon our neutral flag, let it at least, in the first instance, be made matter of negotiation. Neutral nations must suffer some inconvenience; and it will be much better policy to come forward at once and say we are at war. We will not submit to vexatious insults, when they are too much to suffer, rather than make this commercial warfare, by which it is impossible, in the course of human events, but that we must be much the greatest sufferers; and how humiliating would it be, after trial, even to propose to make it a drawn battle!

Let us examine the subject. Of the whole fair trade of Great Britain, taking their imports and exports into view, their trade with the United States will be found to be one-sixth, or thereabouts. Take the imports and exports of the United States, and you will find that full one-half the value of our whole trade is with Great Britain and her dependencies. Who will suffer most? She, by the interruption of one-sixth, with the means of getting most of the articles we supply, on as good terms, from other nations, with great internal sources of revenue, and a people used to bear any taxes asked of them; or we, with an interruption of one-half our trade and commerce, not so well off with respect to internal resources, and the complaints of our citizens, not accustomed to heavy taxation? Let those who rely upon the effect it will have on the English manufacturers and artisans, look back to 1773 and 1774, and recollect the effect it then had.

But there is one circumstance that should have weight with every mind. It will be found that three-fourths of all the impost revenue of this country are derived from our commerce with the British. Shall we hazard an entire loss of this revenue? And if lost or greatly interrupted, from whence shall we supply its deficiency, without, at least, in their minds, oppressing the people of this country? I am not a stockholder or a bankholder. I am too poor to be either, and therefore can have no separate interest in view, and, where I am known, I shall not be charged with partiality to Great Britain; but I hope I am free from such unwarrantable prejudices as to lead me into measures to the injury of my country.

I lay it down as a principle not to be controverted, that our intercourse with Great Britain, in a commercial point, (I mean, putting the mode of carriage out of account, and confining it to the importation and exportation, and restrictions and bounties thereon,) is as favorable as we can expect, and, taken in the aggregate, full as favorable as with France, their Navigation Act excepted.

With respect to navigation, I have long thought it ought not to be submitted to; but are we to expect, at a moment like this, acting (as they will certainly believe we shall) under the impulse of resentment, they will waive an atom of their Navigation Act to the result of our resolutions? It is vain. Let us not hazard that which is certain, which the safeguard of experience has proved, for that we know not of.

It has been mentioned as a grievance that our produce is sent to France, Holland, Spain, Portugal, &c., and that our imports are, in a great degree, confined to Great Britain. Our merchants must pay their debts, and surely it is for their interest to sell their articles for the highest price they will bring, and purchase where they can obtain cheapest. Our produce is sent to those countries to pay our debts in Great Britain.

There has been nothing to lead me to a judgment how the blanks are to be filled. If, with such high duties as to prohibit the articles, our chief source of revenue will be wiped off, and the consequence may, nay, must be, direct taxation. If low, it will only exhibit, without gratifying, a resentment, and the consumers of these articles, the yeomanry of this country, will have to pay the tax. If it is said that it is intended to encourage our own factories, let us select those which we can manufacture, and lay prohibitory duties on the foreign articles.

Mr. F. reprobated the idea of suffering partial or merely political motives to influence in the discussion of the subject. Commercial subjects ought to be considered in an independent point of view. He hoped, therefore, that the committee would endeavor to divest themselves of every incidental impression, originating in impulses from particular events, and contemplate the question simply on its own merits.

Mr. Fitzsimons declared that, in the course of this discussion, he had not heard one single argument advanced which, admitting the premises to be true, could persuade him to give his consent to the first of the resolutions. It was possible that he might agree to some of those that followed. He was perfectly convinced that a judicious system of regulations would be of infinite advantage to the maritime interest of America. He was of opinion that the first resolution was by far too indefinite. The substance of the whole arguments advanced on both sides tended only to establish a fact, which was already perfectly well known, that the Governments of Europe act, in regard to the commerce of the United States, just as they think proper. The lesson was a very good one, and he trusted that, with a proper attention to temporary circumstances, this country would improve by it.

Mr. Madison regarded the objection of the gentleman as entirely of a new kind. He had refused his consent to the first of the resolutions, because it was indefinite. But the propositions laid before the House a few days ago with respect to the Algerines were fully as indefinite, and yet the gentleman who spoke last had recommended them. The order of procedings in the present question is perfectly candid and regular, consonant to the practice of the House, and the practice of the gentleman himself.

Mr. Ames wished, that gentlemen, instead of indefinite declamation, would lay their finger on each particular wrong that Britain had done to us. He did not know of any particular advantage that we had derived in our commerce with France. He wished to discountenance a spirit of revenge, and to ascertain on what side the benefits of our commerce lay, and wherein they consisted. He did not like unfair comparisons,

Mr. Nicholas said, that he would not, at this time of day, attempt to detain the House any further than by just observing that the practice of comparisons had originated among the gentlemen who opposed the resolutions.

At this stage, the committee rose, and had leave to sit again.

Thursday, January 16.

Commerce of the United States.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the Report of the Secretary of State on the privileges and restrictions on the commerce of the United States in foreign countries, when

Mr. Nicholas rose and spoke as follows:

Mr. Chairman: I feel a great embarrassment in speaking on this subject, from a distrust of my ability to treat properly its acknowledged importance, and from the apparent expectation of the audience. I feel too, as the member from Maryland who spoke yesterday did, from the imputation of motives, well knowing that the Representatives of my country are industriously reported to be enemies of the Government, and promoters of anarchy, and that the present measure is imputed to these principles. It is somewhat remarkable, that farther north we are charged with selfishness, and want of attachment to the general welfare, for a supposed opposition to measures of the import of the present. I mention this contradictory inference, to show that the shameful designs charged upon us, are not proved by the fact, and to place the guilt where it only exists, in the malignity of the accuser.

It is a commonly received opinion, that trade should be intrusted to the direction of those immediately interested in it, and that the actual course of it is the best which it could take; this principle is by no means a safe one, and, as applied to the trade of America, is extremely fallacious. It can never be just, where the beginning and growth of a commerce have not been free from all possible constraint, as to its direction; as that can never be called a business of election which has been created under foreign influence. The manner in which America was first peopled, and the nurture she received from Great Britain, afford the most striking contrast to the requisite before mentioned. The first inhabitants of America were educated in Great Britain, and brought with them all the wants of their own country, to be gratified chiefly by the productions of that country. Aided by British capital, in the settlement of the wilderness, and depending on the same means for the conveyance of its produce to a place of consumption, it was inevitable, that the demand for British commodities should keep pace with the improvement of the country. In the commencement of American population and its early stages, there does not appear to have been a chance of comparing the advantages of commercial connection with different countries, and it will be found that in its progress, it was still more restrained. In the last years of the dependence of America on Great Britain, the principal part of America was occupied by large trading companies, composed of people in Great Britain, and conducted by factors, who sunk large sums in the hands of the farmers, to attach them to their respective stores, by which means competition was precluded, and a dependence on the supplies of those stores completely established. Since the Revolution, the business has been conducted by persons in the habit of dependence on Great Britain, and who had no other capital than the manufactures of that country furnished on credit. The business is still almost wholly conducted by the same means. In no stage of its growth then, does there appear to have been a power in the consumer to have compared the productions of Great Britain with those of any other country, as to their quality or price, and therefore there is no propriety in calling the course of trade, the course of its choice.

The subject before the committee naturally divides itself into navigation and manufactures, in speaking of which, I shall offer some other considerations, to show that the same effects are by no means to be expected from the greatest commercial wisdom in individuals, which are in the power of the general concert of the community; the one having in view profit on each separate transaction, the other, promoting an advantageous result to the whole commerce of the country.

In considering the importance of navigation to all countries, but especially to such as have so extensive a production of bulky articles as America, I think I shall show that the last observation is accurately right, and that the interest of the whole community, not those only who are the carriers, but those also who furnish the object of carriage, positively demands a domestic marine, equal to its whole business; and that, even if it is to exist under rates higher than those of foreign navigation, it is to be preferred. In circumstances of tolerable equality, that can never however entirely be the case; for, in the carriage of the produce of one country, by the shipping of another, to any other place than the country to which the shipping belongs, there is considerably more labor employed than would have been by domestic shipping, as the return to their own country is to be included. On this ground, it may be confidently asserted, that where the materials of navigation are equally attainable, they will always be more advantageously employed by the country for whose use they are intended; and that if, under such circumstances, another country is employed as the carrier, it must be under the influence of some other cause than interest, as it respects that particular business. A dependence on the shipping of another country tends to establish a place of deposit in that country of those exports which are for the use of others, if it is at a convenient distance from them. The superintendence of property makes short voyages desirable for the owner, and the connection that soon takes place between the money capital of a country and its shipping interests, greatly strengthens the vortex. The attainment of wealth beyond the demands of navigation, leads to an interest in the cargo itself, and then the agency in selling to the consumer becomes important. It is apparent that, as the final sale depends on the wants of the purchaser, all intermediate expenses of care and agency must be taken from the price to which the maker would be entitled. Our own commerce has involved this loss, in a remarkable degree, and it has gone to an enormous extent, from a necessity of submitting to the perfidy of agents, arising from a dependence established by means of the so much boasted credit.

That there is this tendency in the employment of foreign shipping, is not only proved by the commercial importance of Holland, which became thus, from her naval resources, the storehouse of Europe, without furnishing any thing from her own productions, but also from the varied experience of America. Before the Revolution, every thing for European consumption was carried to Great Britain, but, since America has possessed shipping of her own, and in the Northern States, there has been an accession of capital, the export to England is reduced one-half. It is true, indeed, that there is still nearly one-half of what she receives, that is re-exported, but it will be found that she still retains a proportioned share of those influences which formerly carried the whole. Great Britain, under all the discouragements of our laws, which, we are told by the mercantile members of the committee, amount to a prohibition where they have any rivals, did, until the European war, possess one-third of the foreign tonnage employed in America. This has been supported by the dependence into which the Southern States were placed by credit, and here, as in every other step of the connection, this engine extorts advantages from us, beyond the compensation which is always secured in the first advance. If there wanted other proof of the British interest in the American navigation being supported in direct opposition to our interests, it may be found in the comparative state of the tonnage employed, where it appears that, after the protecting duties once had their effect, the additional tonnage, to a considerable amount, has been entirely American, and that the British tonnage has remained very nearly stationary, and in proportion to their undue influence.

In time of war, in addition to the inconveniences before stated, which are enhanced by throwing the trade from its accustomed channel, there are great and important losses brought on a country by this kind of dependence. If your carriers are parties to the war, you are subjected to the war freight and war insurance on your cargo, and you are cut off from all the markets to which they are hostile; and, indeed, from our experience in the present war, I may say you are cut off from the market of your carriers themselves, as it would have been impossible for British vessels to have escaped in our seas last summer. To what extent this loss goes may be seen from a calculation in the Secretary of State's report on the fisheries, making the proportion of war to that of peace in the one hundred years, as forty-two to one hundred; and on that calculation there can be no hesitation in determining that the interest of the farmers requires that this foreign dependence should end here.

But the European war, by making a temporary exclusion of British shipping, has already brought on us the greatest mischief of such a regulation: and, by the encouragement it has afforded to our shipping, almost completed the remedy; so that we have reason to consider this as a fortunate period. But, it is not merely the advancement of our marine that is contemplated by the present resolutions; the security of that which we have is also dependent on them. The danger from the Algerines has been estimated in this House at five per cent. on the vessel and cargo, but the whole encouragement to our own shipping in our existing laws consists in the one-tenth additional duty on goods imported in foreign vessels. Whenever there shall be a European peace, which cannot be far distant, the whole difference between the two sums will be a direct encouragement on British ships, and will probably be equal to two freights. Do gentlemen rely on the precarious prospect of building frigates, and the more precarious service to be rendered by them when built, so much as to neglect any other regulations for the safety of our shipping when they are so much in their power?

Having shown that the actual state of our commerce is by no means the most beneficial, as far as navigation is concerned, I will proceed to consider the benefits derived from the consumption of those European manufactures which form the principal part of the stores of America. And here it may safely be said, that national policy by no means justifies the almost exclusive preference given to those of Great Britain. It is not always true that the commodity which is bought for least money is the best bargain, for the means of payment form an important consideration in all traffic, and accommodations in it may more than counterbalance an inequality of price. If one man will receive an article in exchange which you can sell to no other, it will certainly be a saving to deal with him at a high advance on his property. If there are countries which would become great consumers of American produce, on the terms of reciprocal consumption, and we find a difficulty, as is often the case, in vending that produce, is it not of great national importance to excite those acts which are to become the foundation of the connection, even if, in the first instance, it is to be attended with inconvenience and loss? France may be made a connection of this sort. She is at this time almost, if not quite, on a footing with Great Britain in the consumption of American products, and every hand which shall receive employment from us will add to her wants. We are told that it is of no less importance to us to find a country which can supply us advantageously than one which will consume our productions; and that, as commerce is no longer carried on by barter, it is no less beneficial to sell in one country and buy in another, than if we could complete the exchange in the same country. This might be true, if your production was limited, and the demand for it certain; but, with a greatly improving agriculture, and some risk in our markets, the object is important. Great Britain being the factory of those things which would make her most dependent on the agricultural interest, and the national wealth being probably at the greatest height, there is no expectation that her consumption will increase. On the other hand, as labor is now to receive its direction in France to the manufacturing arts, so far as concerns America, you will take from the agricultural strength a large class of people, and by that means create a dependence on you, at least to the amount of their own consumption, and the wealth you will diffuse will give ability to thousands who are now too poor to bid for your commodities. Nor is it probable that you will purchase this important benefit on very disadvantageous terms; for it is agreed on all hands that many important arts are well understood there, and that labor, which forms the principal part of the cost of most articles, is considerably cheaper in France than in England.

Another very important operation of a discrimination in favor of France will be that, by encouraging liberal industry, you may put an end to some practices which, in the existing state of consumption, greatly depreciate our commodities. I mean the public provision made in granaries, and the supply from them in times of scarcity, which destroys the competition that raises every thing to its just value. Different consequences have been foretold as likely to result from those measures, to which I shall give a short examination. We are told that the preference long since given by our laws has been equal to a prohibition of British vessels, and that, to the extent to which it has gone, the best effects have been produced. To secure this operation from a recent attack, and at the same time to extend it to some branches of trade, to which its principles would equally extend, is the object of the marine resolutions. We have no reason to apprehend bad consequences from an action which has hitherto had good consequences. As to the increased duties on manufactures, I think the prospect in no way threatening; for, if there should be found no country to supply our wants on better terms, the diminution of consumption will be only in proportion to the duty. This can be by no means alarming, considered as the worst consequence of the measure to men with whom the impost is the favorite mode of collecting the revenue, at a time when the public wants are equal to any possible produce. If there shall be found a competitor with Great Britain for our consumption, the great object will be attained, as it must be accompanied by a corresponding consumption of American productions. But we are told that there will be a conflict of commercial regulations between this country and Great Britain, and that the consequence will be, the loss of the market she affords us. The probable consequences of such a conflict will best determine whether it is to be expected, as it will commence, on her part as well as ours, with a view to consequences. The danger which she can alone apprehend is the loss of the market for her manufactures; and to obviate this, it would be absurd to widen the breach between us, as that would tend, in a direct proportion, to the establishment of unfriendly habits and manufactures, either here or in other countries, which would rival her own. If, however, the ultimate advantage would justify such measures, the immediate distress of her people would forbid it. The American trade must be the means of distributing bread to several hundred thousand persons, whose occupations would be wholly ended with the trade, and the Government is by no means in a situation to bear their discontent. Their navigation and manufactures draw many important ingredients from America which would be lost to them. The creditors of the people of America, to an immense amount, would be deprived of the remittances which depend on a friendly intercourse. On the whole, it would add to the disorders of the Government among those who, perhaps, have heretofore contributed to its support, without gratifying any thing but an arrogant resentment. But we are told that our own citizens would be equal sufferers, and are more to be injured by being stopped in a career of rapid improvement. It will be hard to anticipate any real misfortune to America in such a contest, unless the temporary loss of indulgencies, which are by no means necessary, can be so called. The consumption of Great Britain is, according to the most friendly calculation, not more than one-third of our purchases from her, and, therefore, the national wealth, independent of the gratification of our appetites, will receive an immense addition, and a vast fund will be procured to make lasting and valuable improvements, which would be degraded by comparison with the gewgaws of a day. It is to be remarked that the diminution of our exports would be divided among large classes of people, and in all cases forms a deduction from the annual income, rather than a total loss. This will result from the various objects of American industry and the division of the markets of its produce. This forms an important difference between America and Great Britain, in an estimate of the effects of a rupture between the two countries. In my opinion, the habits of the Southern States are such as to require the control which is said to be the consequence of these measures. Under the facility offered by the modes of trade before spoken of, and the credit which is said to be so beneficial, they have not only involved themselves in debt, but have contracted habits which, with the power of gratification, must always keep them so. We did hope that the administration of justice would have corrected the evil, but we now find that it cannot be corrected but by entire changes. It is founded in the policy of the merchant himself, and this circumstance is enough to present to the minds of the committee a long train of dependent mischiefs. It is a fact, supported by the best evidence, that our merchants who get their goods from the manufacturer pay as much for them as the shopkeeper who buys at Baltimore or Philadelphia. This is one of the consequences of the want of credit which always will follow a reliance on collection from farmers; and there can be no doubt that the merchant is indemnified for his disgrace as well as his advance. The result of the whole train of indulgence is, that our goods are bought at an advance from a half to one-fourth of what they could be afforded for in cash sales. Nor does the mischief stop here. It brings a subjection which materially affects the sale of our produce. I do believe, myself, that the war with Great Britain did not bring half the mischief on us that their credit has; and I very much suspect a credit for consumption will always be found equally mischievous. It by no means resembles money loans, as is insinuated by the gentleman from South Carolina, by freeing a man's own resources for any other use. It is certain that there is no other safe regulation of a farmer's expenses than his income; and experience every day proves that, when so regulated, they always fall short of the income, and that, when they depend on credit, they always exceed it, and thereby subject future revenue. Lessening the importation of foreign manufactures will increase our household fabrics, which experience has proved to be highly profitable, as the labor is done by a part of the community of little power in any other application. Regular efforts in this way have been, in my country, certainly productive of independence.

Mr. Goodhue.—Mr. Chairman: The propositions now before us having been considered by several gentlemen, who have already spoken, and who have given such a particular detail of calculations, I shall confine myself to some general observations on the subject.

The gentleman from Maryland has made an observation which struck me very forcibly as applied to the subject before us, because it is a maxim to which all mankind have assented, and upon which all mankind continually practise—it was this: "there is no friendship in trade;" and it maybe added, as a necessary consequence, there ought to be no hatred in trade. By following a path founded upon so obvious a maxim as the foregoing, we may be sure of a right guide, but if we deviate from it, we are in danger of being led into unforeseen error and mischief. It is unquestionably our duty to attend to the navigation and commerce of our country, and give it every proper encouragement which time and circumstances admit; this has ever been my wish and my conduct.

This object, so important and desirable, must be effected by fixed principles and regulations, such as giving our vessels a decided preference in our own ports above the ships of every other nation whatever, by paying less tonnage and other duties; by suffering no foreign ships to bring into the United States the productions of any other country than the one to which they belong; and by prohibiting foreign ships from coming to the United States from those places where our own ships are prohibited.