SECOND CONGRESS.—SECOND SESSION. (continued 2)

I have a high opinion of the backwoods riflemen, but I am confident that we cannot certainly rely upon their turning out as often as they might be wanted; we could not rely on such uncertainty; and yet this is offered as a favorite project. If you cannot rely upon them, you may say that the ordinary militia can be drafted. You would find them unfit for such a service; they would in general be composed of substitutes, inexperienced and undisciplined, and it would be unfair to take them all from the frontiers, and some of the States, or at least one, have no militia laws. I am for retaining the regular troops.

The President has practised economy in organizing the troops voted for, and I am told they have made considerable progress in discipline; they are formed into legionary corps, composed of horse, riflemen, light-infantry, and battalion-men. The three former will be fit for active service in the field, the latter for the common duties in the camp or garrison. I will allow volunteers and militia their full credit; but I do not think the regular troops merit the disparagement attempted. Volunteer corps have not been free from misfortunes. Colonel Crawford, at the head of five hundred volunteers from Virginia and Pennsylvania, was defeated in the Western country, and he was burnt at the stake. General Braddock, it is said, was obstinate, and his European troops were undisciplined for such a service. The army under General St. Clair was lost, because the men were undisciplined and unfitted for that service. I can mention several instances where regular troops have successfully penetrated the Indian country, among warlike tribes, with success: Colonel Montgomery, into the Cherokees; Colonel Armstrong to the Kittaning; Colonel Boquet's campaign of 1763, and 1764. Three detachments of the American army, in the year 1778, (one under the command of General Broadhead, one under Lieutenant Colonel Butler, and the last commanded by your humble servant,) penetrated the country possessed by the Six Nations. Neither of the detachments was large, and the last had to contend against superior numbers. In General Sullivan's campaign, the year following, his vanguard beat an equal, if not a superior number of Indians. I might mention the Roman legions; they almost constantly were successful against those they called Barbarians, until their enemies adopted the Roman discipline. I have a high opinion of the personal bravery and prowess of an Indian, but I do deny that they can act to the best advantage in large bodies. They have not an experience of that kind; disciplined troops would have the advantage. I reprobate the idea of a standing army, which might endanger the liberty of this country; but I consider the troops contemplated in the act of Congress to be absolutely necessary, until peace shall be obtained, and therefore shall vote against a reduction. Every step has been taken, and I dare say will be taken, by the President, to procure a peace without bloodshed. Our messengers of peace have, in some places, been murdered, and yet he has sent messengers to others.

Mr. Clark.—One would suppose from the style of the debate, that we were going to abandon the frontiers, the safety of the country, &c., and to disband the whole of the army: for, the arguments of those gentlemen who are opposed to the motion seem to be calculated to mislead the House in that way, and to prove that the question under consideration is for reducing the whole of the troops now existing. But this is so far from being the true state of the matter, that it is not even contemplated to disband a single man of them; it only goes to the prevention of raising any more troops, which perhaps would be the safest policy under the present circumstances and temper of the United States. There are about three thousand three hundred effective men already raised, who are sufficient to garrison the forts on the frontier, agreeably to the gentleman's statement who introduced the motion; and, indeed, it seems as if they were fully competent, if we believe the report that the whole of the Indian force, at the time of meeting General St. Clair, and when they exerted themselves to the utmost, was but one thousand two hundred warriors.

Mr. C. made some further remarks on the sentiments which had been expressed by the gentleman last up; and, in speaking of the discretionary powers vested in the President, he was of opinion that the situation of the Chief Magistrate in this respect was extremely delicate: for, supposing he might be inclined to stop the recruiting service, and reduce the war establishment; and supposing the frontiers to be again harassed, it might be charged to him for not having kept up the legal complement of men. Under this impression, Mr. C. wished that some way could be adopted of conveying to the President the sentiments of the Legislature on this subject, without the tedious form of a law.

Mr. Parker.—The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Hartley) has been reading a section of the law, to inform us of the discretionary powers vested in the President, which we have heard from other members before he rose, and which we all knew as well as himself. I am sorry to hear gentlemen, when they have no other resource of argument left, so often resorting to the name of the President, to carry their measures; and yet, in the present instance, I much doubt whether those sentiments are avowed by the President, which have been laid to his charge in the course of this debate: however, if they were really so, this is not a sufficient reason to silence me, or to prevent me from delivering my own sentiments, and those of my constituents who sent me here to do so. He vindicated the character of the militia, in opposition to the disgraceful picture which Mr. Wadsworth had painted of this respectable class of citizens, whom he (Mr. P.) insisted were always more spirited soldiery, and fitter for fighting the Indians than the regulars, although they did not always move at the sound of a trumpet or beat of a drum, which were necessary to rouse the attention of heart-broken, mercenary troops, who seldom act but from force, or fear of the whipping-post. Militia were not so well acquainted with military show, or the display of columns; neither did the President of the United States, when acting Major of a regiment little better than militia, find that the doctrine of tactics was of any great service to him.

Mr. P. further mentioned, that the forerunners of General Burgoyne's army were taken by General Stark's militia near Bennington; and the capture of the whole of Burgoyne's army was chiefly brought about by militia, as General Lincoln had very few regular troops at the time of his surrender. In short, the militia bore a conspicuous share of almost every engagement during the war. At Trenton, the men who took the Hessians were little other than militia, as they had been raised but a short time before. Mr. P. could vouch for them, as he was a witness of their activity and bravery. Another instance offered of their success at Charleston, after it was taken by the British and the regulars drove off; the militia kept possession of the country and supported themselves. He also remembered having been called away from the regular army in the North to take the command of some militia in Virginia, who supported themselves for twelve months without either pay or provisions from the United States; and yet they were never once defeated or disgraced, neither did they leave the country unprotected and exposed; and all they received for their services was certificates which necessity obliged them to alienate at three shillings in the pound to persons who are now in possession of them drawing an annual interest of nearly as much, and who never perhaps had a good wish toward the Revolution. He next quoted the militia under Colonel Mercer, at Yorktown, who were successful in a skirmish with the enemy under Tarleton. These and several other arguments in favor of the militia, whom he still maintained to be the best security of a country, were used by Mr. P. He would not advocate the raising them from all parts of the United States, but only in such places as the safety of the frontiers required it most: they were not, to be sure, accustomed to the display of the column, &c., but they knew how to take the Indians in a proper way through the woods.

It gave him pain to hear the character of the militia so much traduced, and it also was a painful reflection to think of the two disgraceful defeats of our armies under Generals Harmar and St. Clair; indeed, it would have a strange appearance to the world, to think that this country is inhabited by the same men who lived in 1776. He repeated what he had before asserted, that most of the present regulars were collected from the stews and brothels of the cities, and had none of the spirit or principles of the honest yeomanry, who composed the militia during former wars, when every man turned out impressed with a good cause.

It was not, he said, his desire to criminate any individual in office, although he would maintain his right of expressing his opinion on that floor, so long as he held a seat in the House. But with regard to myself, said he, I am not disposed to pour incense into any man's cup; I respect the President as much as any man, and think him incapable of doing wrong, at least on those principles that foreign despots are supposed to do no wrong, because the people are their subjects, and dare not to say their sovereigns do wrong, and dare not contradict this tyrannic maxim. If the House, or if the President, have committed an error, they ought to correct it; for my part, I conceived the whole of the plan wrong from the beginning. From the present appearances, he was convinced we should get no peace with the Indians, unless it were dictated by the British agents in Canada; for it was clear, as long as they can do us the injustice to withhold territory from us, we can have little reason to expect their aid or friendship in bringing about a peace which is so desirable. He hoped to live to see the day that America will be able to show herself superior to her enemies, and chastise them: at present, it would be improper to engage in any war, if it could be avoided.

In addition to the foregoing reasons offered by Mr. P. for being opposed to a war establishment, he also remarked, that it was from a desire to see the public debt redeemed without resorting to new taxes; for if they once should get fixed there, (pointing up to the Senate Chamber,) we should never be able to withdraw them, whether they were necessary or not. He concluded by a hearty wish that the motion made by his friend from North Carolina might succeed.

Mr. Boudinot was against the motion, as he thought any immediate alteration of the present system would be attended with dangerous consequences, under the present circumstances of the United States. He did not think it would be justifiable to alter it. It would show an instability in our public measures, especially at this moment, when we have done every thing to bring about a peace with the hostile Indians: and, when it is just advancing to the season for effecting it—when it is at the eve of completion—shall we rashly counteract the whole? and after having brought the enemy, who were so much elated on account of their recent success, to a proper sense of our power and force to impose an honorable peace, would it not be extremely imprudent to lessen our own consequence before we have accomplished the object? The Indians would, in this case, most indubitably raise their demands in proportion to what they supposed to be our weakness. Mr. B. added several other observations.

Mr. Willis had always been strongly impressed with a dislike for standing armies; but when he considered the situation of the frontiers, and particularly of the State of Georgia, he must give his vote against the motion. Neither did he think two regiments by any means a sufficient force, even to garrison the posts.

On motion, the committee rose and reported progress.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of State, enclosing a list of the several persons employed in his office, with the salary allowed to each, pursuant to the resolution of this House of the thirty-first ultimo; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill making compensation to the widows and orphans of certain persons who were killed by Indians, under the sanction of flags of truce, and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose and reported progress.

Thursday, January 3.

Mr. William Smith, from the committee appointed, presented a bill to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions: which was received, and read twice, and committed.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill to make compensation to the widows and orphans of certain persons who were killed by Indians, under the sanction of flags of truce; and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had again had the said bill under consideration, and made several amendments thereto.

Ordered, That the said bill, with the amendments, do lie on the table.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War, enclosing a list of the persons employed in the several offices of his Department, with the salary allowed to each, pursuant to the resolution of this House, of the 31st ultimo; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.

Military Establishment.

The order of the day being called for, the House went into Committee of the Whole, (Mr. White in the chair,) on Mr. Steele's motion for reducing part of the present military establishment of the United States.

In reply to the speech made yesterday by Mr. Wadsworth, and which had been expressed in such strong language, Mr. Steele thought it necessary to make a few observations, as a preliminary, before the House went further into the debate.

The gentleman from Connecticut had disputed the calculations which he, Mr. S., had produced. Perhaps the gentleman's calculations may be right, and perhaps both of our statements may be so; but with respect to those which I produced, if the acts of Congress are false, if the reports and estimates of the Heads of Departments on your table, Mr. Speaker, are false, then my statements are wrong, or "untrue" as the gentleman expressed it, and for which, I hope, on more cool reflection, he will not adhere to. Mr. S. then read the acts of Congress of the 29th of September, 1789, 26th of March, 1790, and 12th of August, same year; the 11th of February, 1791, and 23d December, 1792, &c., from which he clearly proved that every item of his calculations was exactly quoted. He knew of no surplusage unexpended at the War Department, but $140,000 as reported by the Secretary of the Treasury; if any gentlemen in the House knew of any other, he hoped they would mention them. For his part, he thought the estimate for 1793 showed very little savings any where from the grants of the preceding year, but it contained demands for new grants much larger than for any former year. This, however, was a subject he did not at present mean to say much on, until he should hear the sentiments of other members. He therefore sat down with a reservation, that he would take the liberty of replying to such arguments as might be adduced against his proposition.

Mr. Wadsworth disavowed any intention of being indelicate in his expressions yesterday, toward the gentleman from North Carolina; and if he had, in the warmth of debate, said any thing to which that gentleman could take offence, it was not meant so, and he was ready to retract it. He could not, however, avoid taking notice, that the gentleman's arguments appeared to him to convey a strong censure on the Executive, and to spread abroad improper impressions. The principal error which he dwelt on, was that of quoting the difference between the appropriations of 1789 and 1790, to be so great as appeared from that gentleman's statement. But the fact is, that the gentleman had overlooked the laws, and instead of quoting the amount of the two appropriations made in 1789, he had only mentioned the amount of one, consequently this was giving an improper impression of the real comparative appropriations of those two years; for, when they are taken in the whole, the difference is not so great, nor the increase so much as Mr. Steele exhibited it, by $27,080. In like manner, the comparative increases of the other years, 1791, 1792, and 1793, have been misstated, and the truth is, that the total increases are not less, but more than the gentleman represented them by the sum of $567,530.72.

Mr. Clark hoped the gentleman last up did not suppose that the House was going to war with the Secretary of War. He sincerely wished that some means should be adopted of conveying the sense of the House to the President, who would thereby be considerably relieved from the delicate situation in which he now stands with regard to the discretionary powers vested in him. Before Mr. C. sat down, he suggested the idea of filling up the blank in Mr. Steele's motion with the word three, so as to limit the military to three regiments.

Mr. Milledge liked the spirit of the motion, in regard to the prevention of standing armies; but he was against its being put in practice at the present time. He differed from the gentleman from New Jersey, and as his motion had not a second he would proceed. He wished the question under consideration to go to a Committee of the Whole, that a fair and open discussion of every point of the important subject might be brought into view. The situation of the State he had the honor to represent, had been mentioned in the course of debate; he therefore felt himself called on to deliver his sentiments; that he was persuaded there was not a member in the House who more ardently wished for peace than himself, or who would go further to promote so desirable an object, as putting an end to a savage war, and an enormous public expense; but he was of opinion that the reduction of the military establishment would not answer either of those purposes; that it well became members to take into consideration such parts of the Union as lay exposed, and then judge the propriety of the intended measure; that it was well known that Georgia was a frontier State, bordered on one side by a nation with whom a just understanding and intercourse still remains to be settled by treaty, and on the other by a warlike tribe of Indians, the most numerous of any on the continent, ten thousand warriors, besides the Cherokee nation of three thousand and five hundred—a State, in proportion to its wealth, and in proportion to what it contributes to the General Government, of the fewest inhabitants, an extent of frontier from the river St. Mary to the northernmost line, full three hundred miles—a country hardly at any period enjoying perfect safety, since the commencement of the Revolution. My constituents said he, adopted the Federal system, from a hope that we should be protected: some of them at this moment, have never been able to return to their habitations, which they left at the commencement of the war; and I am warranted in saying that a part of my constituents are now throughout the State under arms. Let members for a moment place their constituents in the situation of mine, and let me ask them if they would not demand the protecting arm of Government? As yet we have experienced little more than the enforcing a treaty, that has not been complied with on the part of the British, which has reduced some of our first citizens to a state of dependence on those who not long ago were their avowed and open enemies, and a deprivation of our territorial right, for the yielding of which a permanent peace and permanent line were to be established. Of the peace we have experienced no great share, and as for the permanent line, it still remains to be run, and, from well-grounded information, the half-way conduct of the Creeks the other day with Mr. Seagrove, gives very little reason to expect it. Such was the situation of his State. But to the point: he was of opinion that we set out wrong in warring with the Indians at any rate. Unfortunately for us, the event has not answered the design, and we are now reduced to that state that hardly any change can mend. The unaccountable success of the Indians has so elated them with their prowess,—and which likewise has presented views to the English and Spanish they never dreamed of; and the federated situation of the different tribes occasioned him not to hesitate in pronouncing that the several frontier States would be more or less exposed to the cruel ravages of a savage warfare. If the customs of savage tribes did not direct them towards us, they were incessantly excited by the British and Spaniards to amuse us with false pretences of peace, while they were engrossing the advantages of their trade. The aged Indians kept to their hunting, and the young men were gratified in the military exploits with the blood of our fellow-citizens. In this situation the frontier of the United States, a distance of not less than fifteen hundred miles, must be garrisoned. He left it to gentlemen to calculate what force would be required for that purpose, if troops should be employed in no other way. Militia, he said, were for sudden invasion; they were scattered when they returned, and must be protected while at home. The jealousy of the English, and their augmenting their force, surely ought not to occasion the reduction of any part of ours; if any thing, it ought to have a contrary effect. He likewise said that it would be necessary to view the early history of our country, and find what had been the conduct of Spaniards and Indians about the commencement of the present century. The Spaniards, at the same spot where they now are, by their treachery, when they were at peace with the English, at a time when the Carolinians little suspected, when they imagined they were in perfect alliance with the Indians, the Yamasses, Creeks, and Cherokees, those Indians, by their instigation, massacred one hundred and thirty of their inhabitants, and drove the rest into Charleston. The inhabitants of the capital of Georgia are as much exposed as the Carolinians then were; a distance of twenty miles from Savannah, places them in an open, uninhabited country, to the Creek nation, and within that twenty miles, thinly inhabited on account of the nature of their cultivation. What had happened, he said, might happen again: the Spaniards had not changed their policy. If, therefore, we are forewarned, ought we not to be forearmed? That, from their dangerous situation, even on a peace establishment, there ought to be at least five hundred troops on that frontier.

If public officers have misapplied the public money, the constitution pointed out a mode to punish them. The Government belongs to the people, the officers are their servants, we are their Representatives, and we ought to do them justice. He conceived it was praiseworthy in any member to afford any aid or information in his power to bring these things to light; that he felt it his duty to make strict inquiry into the expenditure of public money; that he was sent by his constituents to protect their property, and in doing that should vote against the present proposition.

Mr. Findlay observed that a difference of opinion existed in respect to the motion for reducing the army. The mover was for filling up the blank with two regiments; but Mr. Clark had proposed three, and was against discharging any of those already enlisted. The principle of the motion was what he wished to speak to. Passing by the comparative view, so much alluded to in the course of the debate, of militia and regulars, he struck at once into the heart of the question. The redemption of the public debt, from the savings to be made by the reduction of the army, seemed to be a principal object with some members, but in his opinion, it was no more than a secondary one: the defence of the frontier is of superior concern.

The origin of the war goes much farther back than that of the present Government; it arose out of the war with Britain; and it has been ever since changing for the worse, until it has at length assumed a very alarming complexion; for it has united a greater number of tribes than has ever been known, and it has exposed a much greater extent of our frontier. With regard to the mismanagement or abuses, if any there were, it was no place to discuss such subjects by desultory debating in this House, whilst there were other modes open. He did not, however, believe that any material abuses had taken place indeed. This war is not one of the faults chargeable to the Executive, for it might with more justice, perhaps, be said to have had its origin in the ineffectual measures of the Legislature. The first Congress assembled under the present Government found the Union in a state of war; and although one regiment was stationed at Pittsburg, yet the militia were not relieved from actual service. But the lately raised troops may perhaps be found more effectual, as it is said there is an excellent system of discipline established amongst them.

With regard to the argument that the Union cannot support so heavy an expense by new taxes, he was of opinion that every consideration ought to give way to the safety and protection of the country.

A particular plan is set into operation for accomplishing a peace, and it ought not to be arrested without a trial being made. The ill-defined law authorizing the President to call out the militia, and the levies under General Harmar, did not answer the end intended, for the time of their enlistment had nearly expired ere they had reached their destination; but if General Harmar had carried out two regiments of permanent troops, he could, without the assistance of the militia, have destroyed all the Indian towns and villages that stood in his way, and he would have completed the object of erecting a line of posts which would secure a lasting peace; but from the weakness of the force and the inefficacy of the law, the purpose was arrested at a critical moment, and the vengeance of the Indians roused to the utmost pitch; instead of their fears being alarmed, the next step of raising another regiment was of a piece with the former weak policy; for the encouragement was insufficient, and the miserable two-dollar men who were raised for a six months' service—their fate is too well known, and will be long remembered. They arrived at the wilderness with clothing that lasted only to the time they reached the scene of action, and those who were not cut off by the enemy were left to starve with cold in the most inclement season.

The fatal catastrophe of this campaign has only served to elate the Indians, and render them insolent, as appears from their treatment of our messengers under flags of truce. The parsimony on those occasions has been the cause of a double expense.

In opposition to this it may be said that those parsimonious plans were recommended by the Executive, and only enacted into laws by the Legislature. This, however, if it were the fact, is no apology for the Legislature, for they have no right to cast their Legislative responsibility upon the Executive Department; nor can they do it without a breach of trust towards their constituents. The members knew that the encouragement of pay and time of enlistments would never answer any good purpose; the want of resources could have been no reason for that parsimony toward the defence of the frontiers, because it is known that we found revenue enough not only to pay the interest of the public debt, and to support the Government, but even to pay the debts of the individual States. The conviction of these mistakes induced Congress at last to make adequate provision, and now an attempt is made to withdraw the means before the end is accomplished. The other branch of the Legislature has prevented us from giving higher wages to encourage the recruiting service; but notwithstanding all this, it appears to go on with considerable success.

Here he mentioned something of the confidential communications which he was not now at liberty to explain. The gentleman who says that two regiments are sufficient to garrison the forts, ought to consider that garrisoning those is not the only object in contemplation. If we expect to exist as a nation we must protect the whole frontier, and make it the interest of the Indians to be at peace with us.

But do gentlemen consider the consequences of throwing all internal defence and distant expeditions upon the militia? Is it not enough that they already stand as a picket guard to their brethren who live at ease; that they eat their bread in the fear of their lives, and are frequently embittered with the view of mournful incidents; but that we must lay a deliberate plan for increasing the number of their fatherless children and childless parents?

To say that those States who have frontiers, ought to be left to protect themselves, is a very anti-Federal sentiment, which he was sorry to hear advanced in that House. Neither is it generous to say we will pay the expense, and let them fight for us. Do gentlemen contemplate to what issue these principles would lead? Do they not observe that the fate of the Government is deeply involved in the decision? Perhaps I may be asked, Did not the States depend chiefly upon their own exertion for the defence of the frontiers under the old Congress? Yes, they did, and were better protected than since that period. But let it be recollected that at the time the States had the command of their own resources, and the laying and executing their own plans, that the Indians were not so formidably combined. But that since the States had not the power of retaliating, nor the means of gratifying with presents; since the Indians have been solemnly told to look away from the little fires of the States, to the great fire of the Union, they have looked upon us as a more formidable and dangerous foe, and made their arrangements accordingly; and European nations, and emissaries among them, have improved upon the circumstance, and excited and aided them in their union and exertions.

He made some further remarks on the impolicy of oppressing the militia at Marietta, &c., and asked if it were possible that those unfortunate few could be able to protect the whole frontier against the united force of the Indians?

He agreed with those who said that the sense of the people of America was in favor of peace; but the question is come to this. It is not to begin a war that we have raised this army, but to procure a peace, and so soon as this end is attained, the army will be discharged. It is raised to protect, not to oppress, or to aid in governing our citizens. I know, said he, that standing armies have always been sources of oppression and aids of tyranny. Our people may long be governed without such aids; their situation will not admit of abuses from standing armies, nor would the citizens submit to them.

He was confident that the army would be discharged by the next Legislature, as soon as a prospect of our affairs will admit it. The present prospects were not of a very flattering nature, and therefore it was good policy to keep up the force at the present crisis; and it would be dangerous to repeal the law under the circumstances.

The present Indian war is essentially different from any former one. When Britain and France divided North America betwixt them, if the emissaries of both excited the Indians to war, the power of both afforded protection. When Britain became possessed of the Western posts, and many tribes of Indians commenced a war, the British Government conducted the war, carried it into the Indian country, and by the dread of their arms procured peace; but the Indians were not then supported by other powers. In the present war, the Indians, who at that time knew nothing of us, have combined to make it a common cause; and no superior powers interest themselves in our favor. No: they conceive our interest to be inimical to theirs. But if they did not receive encouragement, protection, and supplies from our superior neighbors, a peace would soon be procured. The gentlemen who support this resolution know well how that matter stands, and they know explanations here are not convenient. He concluded by declaring that he could not vote for the motion.

The committee now rose, and had leave to sit again.

Friday, January 4.

Samuel Sterrett, from Maryland, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

The House proceeded to consider the amendments reported yesterday by the Committee of the whole House to the bill to make compensation to the widows and orphans of certain persons who were killed by Indians, under the sanction of flags of truce; and the same being read, some were agreed to and others disagreed to. And then the said bill, being further amended at the Clerk's table, was, together with the amendments, ordered to be engrossed and read the third time to-morrow.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, enclosing lists of the persons employed in the several offices of his Department, with the salary allowed to each; also, a letter accompanying certain statements relative to foreign loans, which have been made by the United States, under the authority of the President, pursuant to the resolutions of this House of the 24th and 27th ultimo; which were read and ordered to lie on the table.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions; and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose and reported progress.

Saturday, January 5.

A petition of the inhabitants of the city of Hudson, in the State of New York, was presented to the House and read, stating the inconveniences under which they labor, from being obliged to register, enter, and clear their vessels at the port of New York, and praying that the said city of Hudson may be made a port of entry. Referred to the Secretary of the Treasury, with instruction to examine the same, and report his opinion thereupon to the House.

An engrossed bill to make compensation to the widows and orphans of certain persons who were killed by Indians, under the sanction of flags of truce, was read the third time and passed.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of War, accompanying the copy of a message of Cornplanter and New Arrow to Major General Wayne, dated the 8th of December last, relative to the measures which they have taken to conclude a peace, on behalf of the United States, with certain tribes of hostile Indians; which were read and ordered to lie on the table.

Military Establishment.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the motion of the 28th ultimo, for reducing the military establishment of the United States.

Mr. Moore said, that there was not sufficient information before the House respecting the prospect of a peace, to warrant a sudden reduction of the army. He referred to the abuses which had been hinted at in some of the branches dependent on the War Establishment, but he did not believe there had been any worth much notice. He also mentioned the abstruseness of attempting an investigation into the origin of the war—whether the frontier settlers, or the Indians, were in fault, was a difficult thing to determine; but from many circumstances, it appeared to him, the white people were often guilty of committing depredations. This was, in his opinion, a good reason why the protection of those frontiers should not be intrusted to the militia that would be raised there. Shall we intrust the conduct of that matter to the very persons who it has been alleged are often the aggressors? Can the President, at the distance he is situated from the Western territory, check all the irregular proceedings that might happen amongst such a militia? There were two obvious reasons for passing the law of the 5th of March, 1792, for the protection of the frontiers by regular forces. First, it could not be expected that militia would always prove successful against the Indians, because the latter are gaining more experience every day in the mode of warfare, and there can be no dependence on a treaty between those militia and the Indians. The second reason was, that the President was strongly impressed with the necessity of establishing the greatest degree of harmony between the United States and the Indians, by encouraging and protecting a trade with them, and that this could be easiest and best effected by establishing a line of forts along the frontiers, to be garrisoned by regular troops. Mr. M. next mentioned something of the manners and customs of the Indians, whose practice it is to spend most of their time on their hunting grounds, leaving their old men, women, and children, in their towns. They have no regular plan of government, and can only be attached by influencing some of their chiefs. The system of harassing them by burning and destroying their towns at the time they are employed in hunting, has come recommended to us by experience, and regular troops are the best to be employed in this service. Their present inexperience will soon be done away by a proper mode of discipline, and why may not these troops be soon instructed? Are they not as capable of receiving instructions as militia, and may we not expect more subordination amongst them, than could possibly be established over militia? He concluded by declaring himself against the motion.

[Here the Speaker informed the Chair that lie had received a confidential message from the President. The committee then rose, and the galleries were closed for some time.]

The House having gone into Committee, the debate was renewed by Mr. Williamson, Mr. Madison, and Mr. Steele.

Mr. Steele rose after Mr. Madison, and said he was perfectly in sentiment with that gentleman, in regard to the propriety of inserting an amendment to the motion, which might secure a sufficient appropriation to carry on offensive operations against the hostile Indians, by the militia of the frontiers; and if an alteration was proposed to that effect, he would second it. The attention of the House to this question speaks its importance; it is probable one more important will not occur during the present session. On its decision are suspended the hopes and fears of the people of this country, their hopes of a speedy and honorable peace, and their fears of a standing army, with its usual retinue of political evils.

The present is regarded as an interesting epoch in the affairs of the United States; and it has been perceived, with serious regret, that while our national character is forming, (he hoped it was not yet formed,) it seems to partake, in some respects, more of the unnatural spirit of monarchy, than of the mild and conciliatory temper of a republic. The principle of keeping up standing armies, though highly obnoxious to the great body of the people, has not been equally so to the Government; they have been maintained and increased without affording protection, or even defence to the frontiers. The supplies necessary to support the establishment begin to discover an alarming derangement of the public finances, and it is now incumbent on the House of Representatives to check this growing mischief.

Mr. S. then adverted to the effects of standing armies on the morals and political sentiments of the people, wherever they had been employed; of the expensiveness of all such establishments, and of the wicked purposes to which they had been, and might be subservient. He said he had prepared himself to have spoken largely to this point, and to have quoted the pernicious effects of such a policy in other nations; but the debate having been already lengthy, and the committee probably fatigued, it would be sufficient for his present purpose, for the members to make their own reflections, and to mark the rapid progress of the army from 1789 to 1792, both in numbers and expenses. Instances from foreign history are superfluous, when our own affords such ample testimony. The establishment began with one regiment: it is now five. The House was called on in 1789 to appropriate a little more than $100,000 for that Department; in the present year, above $1,000,000 is demanded. The reason of this extraordinary additional expenditure, this unexpected increase of the army, if not enveloped in darkness, has been founded on policy hitherto not satisfactorily explained. He said, however lightly he was disposed to touch this part of the subject, he could not avoid reminding the committee of the memorable sentiments of 1776, in regard to standing armies; of the universal abhorrence of the Americans to them at that time; and, to illustrate it more clearly, he read the expressions of some of the States in their Bills of Right. These were the sentiments of the Whigs of 1776, and to such Whigs he wished to appeal on this occasion. He also reminded the committee of the recent debates of 1788, of the amendments proposed in several of the State Conventions; of the unanimity which prevailed among all ranks of people on this particular point; and it is now to be lamented, said he, that while the ink which recorded these objections to the constitution is yet drying, the evil then predicted has taken place.

If there is a subject on which much deliberation is unnecessary, in order to form a right opinion, it would be in regard to military establishments. The feelings of a free people revolt at their continuance, and every man who reads or thinks, can point out their dangers. He said he felt more anxiety for the fate of this motion, than commonly marks his conduct, because this is the last session that will ever afford him an opportunity to trouble the House with his sentiments on this or any other subject. The motion was brought forward to discharge a duty which he owed to his constituents, to satisfy his own conscience, and to afford that protection to the frontiers which they deserved, and to save the public money. If an uncommon degree of zeal was discovered in supporting the motion, it ought to be attributed to these, and no other motives.

The question will now soon be taken; if adopted, I shall be among those who rejoice; if rejected, among those who have always submitted with a proper degree of decency to the decision of the majority. But in any event, the public will know that we have asserted the sense of the people against standing armies; that we are anxious to defend the frontiers against their enemies; that we have recommended a system of economy and efficiency, instead of profusion and delay; that we have recommended a system calculated to produce victory and peace, instead of disgrace and war; and that we wish to rescue the Government from the intoxication of the times, and all the apery of military establishments.

He said he had been attentive to the arguments of the opposition, and they led principally to four points. If neither of these positions be found tenable, the motion will certainly succeed; and that they are not tenable, is believed and will be shown.

1st. It has been boldly asserted that the President is the author of the existing system.

2dly. They call in question the sincerity of our declarations in wishing to afford effectual protection to the frontiers.

3dly. They deny the competency of the militia.

4thly. The impolicy of reducing the establishment, when a treaty is expected.

In regard to the first, we deny that the President is the author of this plan of prosecuting the war. Not having avowed explicitly himself that he is so, no document appearing to confirm that opinion, we are justified in attributing a system which appears to us ineffectual to his Secretary, and not to him.

It is true, that the Secretary is only a finger of his hand, and the intimate connection which must of necessity subsist between them, perhaps, is the ground upon which the assertion has been made. The Secretaries are all equally near to the President, and if it be admitted that he is the author of this, he may, with equal propriety, be said to have been the author of every system on general subjects which either of them have recommended.

Was he the author of the report on the fisheries? Was he the author of the plan for establishing the National Bank? It is known that he was not, and circumstances might be mentioned (which are withheld from delicacy) to confirm this opinion.

Was he the author of the Funding System? Some gentlemen in the opposition to this motion, would not be willing to give the President that credit if he claimed it, and some who support this motion would not only be sorry that the President had even claimed such a credit, but believe that it was in no respect attributable to him. The same gentleman (Mr. Wadsworth) who first asserted that the President was the author of this military plan, in the same speech admitted it to be the war, as well as the plan of the House, and then argued on the necessity of stability in our measures. It is not very material to the present question whose plan it is; being a public measure, we are justified in offering our objections to it; and this is the first time that I have heard it publicly asserted that a Government should persevere in an error, because they had undertaken it. If the plan be a good one, it may be supported by reason; if a bad one, no name ought to be called in to prop it up.

The inconsistency of that gentleman's (Mr. Wadsworth's) arguments not only supports the motion before the committee, but shows the wretched shifts which have been used to defeat it.

It has been said, in the course of the debate, that individual members, and even this House, are incompetent to decide upon the efficacy or inefficacy of military plans. In answer to this it may be said, that if we are not all Generals, we are all members, and that we have the privilege of thinking for ourselves and for our constituents. To admit this doctrine in the latitude which has been expressed, would be to introduce military ideas indeed; it would be to make soldiers of us, instead of Legislators: nay, worse than that, it would be to revive the exploded doctrines of passive obedience and non-resistance.

In regard to the sincerity of his intentions to afford effectual protection to the frontiers, Mr. S. said that he had been sufficiently explicit; that a feeling for the sufferers had dictated this motion; that he was sorry that it had been whispered in the ears of some of the members that it was intended to withhold the necessary appropriations, and divert them to other purposes.

If two regiments were insufficient to garrison all the posts necessary for defence, he would even, under certain restrictions, consent to continue the three sub-legions, thereby enabling the President to establish double the number of posts now erected, if he should deem it advisable. Regular troops being incapable of active expeditions against Indians in the wilderness, his wish was to abandon that system and confine them entirely to the garrison.

The next objection to the motion is the incompetency of the militia; and to support this opinion the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. Wadsworth) has made this expression, "that as to the expedition under General St. Clair, the regulars were few, and not to be named when compared with the number of the militia." The truth is, there was not a man engaged that day as a militia man, except the advance guard commanded by Colonel Oldham, which consisted of about three hundred, perhaps a few more. The field return of the day preceding the action being in the War Office, this can be ascertained with precision. The balance of the army on that unfortunate day, had been enlisted as regulars, were fought as regulars, even clothed as regulars, and, poor fellows, died like regulars. They suffered the fate which awaits every regular army destined for similar expeditions. Even the handful of militia employed that day, did not deserve that name; they were chiefly substitutes for drafted men from the ceded territory. This draft became unavoidable, from a misfortune to General Sevier, which Mr. Steele related.

The attack on Major Adair has also been mentioned as a proof of the incompetency of militia, and Mr. S. insisted that the only inference which could be drawn from thence was, that one hundred militia were able to repel, but not destroy, near two hundred Indians. This event he conceived was in favor of and not against his motion.

He next adverted to the arguments of Mr. Wadsworth, in regard to the war of 1762; of the establishment of posts in Pennsylvania and Virginia, and of the success of Colonel Boquet's expedition. If two worn-out regiments at that time were sufficient to defend the frontiers, and, with the aid of the militia, to terminate the war, two new regiments, with all the vigor which the gentleman described them to possess, with the aid of established posts, and a much more effective militia, can certainly be equal to the same end. After examining Mr. W.'s arguments for some time, Mr. S. said, that when analyzed, it would be found that they proved more than they were intended to prove; but the merits of this motion did not require that he should take advantage of these indiscretions.

He showed from the history of 1762, that though posts were established, with a handful of regular troops in each, they never answered the purpose of effectual protection; but the frontier people were always obliged, in a great degree, to defend themselves; that they were best calculated for that service, and that they would perform it now with alacrity and success, if well rewarded.

Mr. S. then refuted the objection against the militia on account of their waste and expense which Mr. W. had alluded to. The law allows a mounted volunteer, furnishing himself with a good horse, good arms, provisions, and every other necessary, except ammunition, at his own risk and expense, one dollar per day. The exact expense of such an expedition can be calculated. Whether successful or not, the charge to the public cannot be increased. The contractors, quartermasters, and hospital departments, are all avoided, with the abuses, expenses, and frauds, attending such establishments. Mr. S. enlarged upon this point, and said that these were always found to be the most expensive departments in any army, and that the Federal Treasury had felt their effects already. In favor of the militia, it may be asked, who fought the battle of Bunker's Hill? Who fought the battles of New Jersey? Who have fought the Indians so often with success, under Generals Wilkinson, Scott, Sevier, and others? Who marched in 1776 under General Rutherford, through the Cherokee nation, laid waste their country, and forced them to peace? Who fought the battles of Georgia, under Clark and Twiggs? Who fought the battles of South Carolina, under the command of an honorable member now present? Delicacy forbids me to enlarge upon his successes in his presence.

Who fought the ever-memorable battles of Cowpens, King's Mountain, Hanging Rock, Blackstocks, the pivots on which the Revolution turned in the Southern States? In short, who fought all the battles of the Southern States, while we had a mere handful of regular troops, scarcely the shadow, much less the reality of an army?

They were all fought by freemen, the substantial freeholders of the country—the men attached to the Revolution from principle, men who were sensible of their rights and fought for them.

Such men will not enlist in regular armies, nor will any one who has the disposition or the constitution of a freeman. It would give me pain to describe the trash which composes all regular armies: they enlist for three dollars a month; which, in a country like the United States, is a sufficient description of their bodies as well as their minds. Such men are not fit to combat the most active enemy in the world. Here Mr. S. read Major Gaither's and Major Trueman's depositions, respecting the defeat of the 4th November, 1791, stating that they could not see the Indians, because they were behind trees, &c.; that the regular troops tried, but could not fight that way; that they seemed to be stupid, and incapable of resistance; and that if any General in the world had commanded such men that day, he must have been defeated as they were.

An additional argument, and one of the most weighty, too, against regular expeditions, in this species of warfare, is, that, by the slowness of their movements, the force of the enemy may be concentrated; time is afforded them to form alliances, and to confederate against those whom they consider a common enemy. It is otherwise with militia incursions. He offered a number of reasons to show that it was so, and how essential for the interest of the United States to adopt a policy calculated to detach the tribes from each other as much as possible.

But it has been said, these men were not regular troops. Mr. S. asked, what, then, were they? They surely were not militia. The last objection, and the least serious of all, to this motion, is the expectations of a treaty in the spring. Mr. S. said, if he thought the gentleman who threw this difficulty in the way believed himself that we have any reason to expect a permanent peace from the treaty now proposed, it might deserve an answer. Facts are more to be relied upon than words. From the channel through which these propositions have come—from the whole complexion of their talks, and from the late attack on Major Adair, it may safely be asserted that no peace can be effected in the spring. He recapitulated some of the difficulties which this motion had to conflict with, and said that he could mention others, if he was at liberty to do so. Under such circumstances, success is hardly to be expected; but he knew the merits of the motion deserved it.

Mr. Hillhouse, who had hitherto sat silent, observed that nothing new had been advanced in the whole course of this long debate, but what he had heard mentioned last winter in that House. He was then opposed in principle to a war establishment, and he still retained the same opinion; but, from the complexion of affairs, it appeared to him that he ought to submit, and give up his own opinion to the general sense of the Legislature, which at present seemed to be for persevering in the system already adopted, and which, as it had scarcely had time for a fair trial, he thought, therefore, ought not to be arrested, perhaps in the very instant when its efficacy was to be expected. If peace should not be established during the next summer, he would then join with such members as would propose a better system; but as the law provides for the discretionary powers of the Executive, it would be best to rely on them. A standing army, he said, was a thing impossible to be accomplished in the United States whilst the House of Representatives have the power of granting money only for two years at any time; he therefore had no fears on that score. An army existing in time of peace was the idea he had of a standing army, and not an army embodied for only a year or two. Upon the whole, it would be as expensive to disband the present force, and to institute another of militia, &c., as it will be to keep up the existing establishment for a little longer time; it was therefore his advice to let the matter rest where it is, with the Executive, for the present. But, in case of a peace not being accomplished within a reasonable period, he would join those who would be for a change in the system; and he was clearly of opinion that a system might easily be adopted, not only to protect our frontiers by repelling the savages, but to exterminate them altogether.

Mr. Findlay felt himself inclined to say a word or two more in reply to Mr. Steele. He thought it would be unjust to lay so much of the weight of protecting the frontiers on the militia only. He expatiated on the meaning of the word militia as defined by law, &c. He also remarked that, however it might be fashionable to despise the levies, yet amongst them there were examples of great bravery to be found, and particularly in one battalion of the unfortunate army on the 4th of November, 1791. He noticed the well-conducted retreat of Major Clark, and the success of General Broadhead up the Alleghany. It was unjust to expect to raise enough of militia in the back parts of Pennsylvania; and the inhabitants of Virginia are so dispersed near the frontiers that they cannot be expected from that State. With respect to the men who went out with General Harmar, and whose time of enlistment expired soon after they reached the scene of operations, many of them remained and settled in that country. He again repeated the injustice of calling out heads of families from one part of the frontier; and above all, he lamented the risk and loss of lives. But, if it should be determined to carry on the war with militia, let them be called from all parts of the United States. The burden already laid on a part of the inhabitants is extremely unequal, and must not lie longer on them. Let the troops now raising be disciplined. I am informed that many of them are considerably advanced in point of discipline, and may before spring become expert soldiers. Let these go on in the present system, and let the militia also be kept up or increased, until the object shall be attained for which the law was intended, and then, and not before, it may be proper to talk of reducing the present establishment. We are now in a situation that it would be extremely imprudent to retreat from.

Mr. Murray delivered some opinions on the preceding arguments of all the members, and remarked that the army, under the present establishment, had no right to be compared to or called a standing army; it bore no more comparison to a standing army than a chameleon to an owl.

Mr. Wadsworth closed this tedious debate with a few further explanations. He accounted for the difference between his calculations and those of the gentleman from North Carolina by observing that he got some of his statements from the War Office. Mr. Steele's were taken from the appropriation laws, and in one instance he had underrated the appropriations. With regard to the opinions he had delivered on the militia, he had never meant to traduce the character of militia, because he had often experienced their brilliant actions; his arguments went no further than to show that the operations of regular troops were in general more effectual. He never wished to detract from the honor of militia, but only to remark that they were not so efficient as regular troops.

The question on the original motion being now put, was negatived.

Mr. Williamson did not entirely approve of the motion in its present form; the blanks might be so filled, he thought, as to import a thing opposite to his wishes—they might import a discharge of the regular troops already raised. He believed his colleague had no such desire; he thought the measure would be improper; but he wished not to have a regiment of officers without soldiers; he wished to fix a time at which the recruiting service should cease and the supernumerary officers should be discharged. As he intended to move that the proposition might be so amended, he should consider it in that light, and he believed the measure would not be imprudent nor inconsistent with the most vigorous measures of defence or offence.

It should be remembered that the House of Representatives, when they had the bill before them, which last winter passed into a law, for defending the frontiers, sent it to the Senate, with a clause importing that officers below the rank of field-officers should not be put into commission any faster than troops could be enlisted. The Senate, adhering to their privilege, refused to agree to that clause in the bill, and it became necessary immediately to commission the officers for five thousand men, some of whom, if report speaks truth, not covetous of honor, are content with their pay, without having raised three men. By the proposed amendment the officers only would be dismissed, whom most of us wished never to have seen in commission.

The proposed regulation has been censured as implicating some kind of censure on the Executive. He viewed it in a different light. The Executive had done what was proper and necessary at the time. But if it should appear that other measures would fit the change of circumstances, he did not see why those measures should not be adopted. It should be recollected that, during the last winter, when the estimate of five thousand men as necessary for the defence of our frontiers was handed to Congress, there was no militia law. A well-armed effective militia, that palladium of liberty, had once and again been recommended by the President to the attention of Congress; but Congress, from year to year, as if they wished for a standing army, had neglected the militia. Towards the close of the last session, indeed, they passed a law. He hoped he might, without offence, call it the shadow of a law. It was saying, in a few words, that the several States might have a good militia if they pleased; and, if they pleased, they might have none at all. Was the Executive to trust the defence of a country to a militia formed under such a law? He thought not. But he observed that, since the last winter, it had come to be generally known that a class of our fellow-citizens exist on the frontiers who are at all times ready to serve, not as drafted militia, but as volunteers. These are the men by whom the Indians must be chastised, or we shall never have peace. They are the best woodsmen and marksmen, and they have no professional interest in spinning out the war. He must repeat the observation that volunteers of the militia are the only troops for vigorous offensive operations. Figure to yourselves an army of regulars creeping through the wilderness, with all its cannon and other military apparatus, in chase of a naked savage, who sees it without being seen. It is an elephant in chase of a wolf. The troops already raised may be pretty well disciplined before the season for action; they are sufficient, with the co-operation of the militia, to take a post, and build forts where they please; every thing else is beyond their power, if they were not five but fifteen thousand. They will never see an Indian unless he chooses to be seen. He wished to be indulged in a single observation respecting a case in which it was said the other day, the militia had been surprised. He was sorry that his naming Major Adair had produced the remark. He would nevertheless venture to repeat the case as an instance of vigilance and bravery. The Major, believing there was an enemy at hand, had visited all his posts at midnight in person; his Lieutenant, Madison, before the dawn of day, roused all the men, telling them that the Indians were coming. The Major, wishing to leave the ground before daylight, called in the sentinels; but the Indians, rushing in with them, gave a heavy fire before there was light by which they could be seen. The Major had not the merit, as he believed, of having been a continental officer, but he had the merit, not less honorable, of having served bravely in the militia. He questioned whether any of the green troops to be recruited next spring or summer will make so good a defence as Major Adair's militia had made. They had taken scalp for scalp, though they fought against the odds of three to one. He prayed it might be remembered that his ideas were not founded on any hopes of sudden peace with the Indians; on the contrary, every motion of the Indians, and every measure taken by those who had most influence over the Indians, induced him to regard an Indian war as the perpetual tax of at least one million per annum. It is fortunate, as he conceived, that the United States know the source of their misfortunes; and if they are compelled to spend one million per annum in opposing a savage enemy, who seems to be hunted upon them, perhaps they may be taught to indemnify themselves by refusing to expend several millions which they can easily save. If a perpetual tax on this head must be raised, sound policy will readily point to the proper object of taxation; but this must remain over for our successors. In the mean time, believing that the troops already raised are sufficient to maintain every fort that is or may be erected, and being confident that volunteers may be found at any time sufficient, if it shall be necessary, to extirpate every hostile tribe of Indians, he should vote for the proposition with the proposed amendment.

The question being taken on Mr. W.'s amendment, viz:

"Resolved, That a committee be appointed to bring in a bill to reduce the military establishment of the United States to —— regiments, to consist of the men who are now in service, or who may be recruited before the —— day of —— next," &c.—

was negatived—32 to 24. The question then was on the original resolution, as moved by Mr. Steele; which, being put, it was negatived—21 members only rising in favor of it. The committee then rose, and the Chairman reported accordingly. The report was laid on the table, and the House adjourned.

Monday, January 7.

Mr. Livermore, from the committee appointed, presented a bill to repeal part of a resolution of Congress of the 29th of August, 1788, respecting the inhabitants of Post Saint Vincents; which was received, read twice, and committed.

Mr. Laurance, from the committee to whom was recommitted the bill making appropriations for the support of Government for the year 1793, reported an amendatory bill; which was read twice, and committed to a Committee of the whole House immediately.

The House accordingly resolved itself into the said committee, and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had had the said bill under consideration, and made no amendment thereto.

Ordered, That the said bill do lie on the table.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions; and, after some time spent therein, the committee rose, and reported progress.

Tuesday, January 8.

The House proceeded to the consideration of the bill making appropriations for the support of Government for the year 1793, which lay on the table; and the said bill being amended, was, together with the amendments, ordered to be engrossed, and read the third time to-morrow.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have passed a bill entitled "An act in addition to the act entitled 'An act to establish the Judicial Courts of the United States;'" to which they desire the concurrence of this House.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of State, accompanying a report of the assays and experiments made by the Director of the Mint, on the gold and silver coins of France, England, Spain, and Portugal, pursuant to the order of the 29th of November last; which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.

The bill sent from the Senate entitled "An act in addition to the act entitled 'An act to establish the Judicial Courts of the United States,'" was read twice, and committed.

Military Establishment.

The House proceeded to consider the motion of the 28th ultimo, for reducing the Military Establishment of the United States, to which the Committee of the whole House had reported their disagreement on Saturday last. Whereupon,

A motion was made and seconded to amend the same by striking out the words "each of —— non-commissioned officers, privates, and musicians," and inserting, in lieu thereof, the words "of —— non-commissioned officers, musicians, and —— of the privates who are now in service, or may be recruited before the —— day of —— next."

And the question being put thereupon, it passed in the negative—yeas 26, nays 32, as follows:

Yeas.—John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Clark, Elbridge Gerry, William B. Giles, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, Christopher Greenup, William Barry Grove, Richard Bland Lee, George Leonard, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Francis Mercer, Andrew Moore, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Jeremiah Smith, John Steele, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tredwell, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Abraham Venable, Artemas Ward, and Hugh Williamson.

Nays.—Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Jonathan Dayton, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister, James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, John Laurance, John Milledge, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Theodore Sedgwick, Peter Sylvester, Israel Smith, William Smith, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, George Thatcher, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Alexander White, and Francis Willis.

And then the main question being put, that the House do agree to the said motion, it passed in the negative—yeas 20, nays 36, as follows:

Yeas.—John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Clark, William B. Giles, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, Christopher Greenup, William Barry Grove, George Leonard, Samuel Livermore, Nathaniel Macon, John Francis Mercer, Nathaniel Niles, Alexander D. Orr, Josiah Parker, Jeremiah Smith, John Steele, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tredwell, Abraham Venable, and Artemas Ward.

Nays.—Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Jonathan Dayton, William Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, Andrew Gregg, Thomas Hartley, James Hillhouse, Daniel Huger, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, John Laurance, Richard Bland Lee, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Theodore Sedgwick, Peter Sylvester, Israel Smith, William Smith, Samuel Sterrett, Jonathan Sturges, George Thatcher, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and Francis Willis.

Ordered, That the committee to whom was commiteed the letter and representation from the Chief Justice and Associate Judges of the Supreme Court of the United States, referred to in the President's Message of the 7th of November last, be discharged from the further consideration of the same.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill to regulate the claims to Invalid Pensions; and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had again had the said bill under consideration, and made several amendments thereto; which were read, and partly considered.

Friday, January 18.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have passed a bill, entitled "An act respecting fugitives from justice, and persons escaping from the service of their masters," in which they desire the concurrence of this House.

Monday, January 21.

The bill sent from the Senate entitled "An act respecting fugitives from justice, and persons escaping from the service of their masters," was read twice, and committed.

Monday, February 4.

Fugitives from Justice and from Labor.

The House resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House on the bill sent from the Senate entitled, "An act respecting fugitives from justice and persons escaping from the service of their masters;" and, after some time spent therein, the Chairman reported that the committee had had the said bill under consideration, and made an amendment thereto; which was twice read, and agreed to by the House.

Ordered, That the said bill, with the amendment, do lie on the table.

Tuesday, February 5.

Fugitives from Justice and from Labor.

The House proceeded to consider the bill sent from the Senate entitled "An act respecting fugitives from justice and persons escaping from the service of their masters," which lay on the table: Whereupon, the said bill, together with the amendment agreed to yesterday, was read the third time; and, on the question that the same do pass, it was resolved in the affirmative—yeas 48, nays 7, as follows:

Yeas.—Fisher Ames, John Baptist Ashe, Abraham Baldwin, Robert Barnwell, Egbert Benson, Elias Boudinot, Shearjashub Bourne, Benjamin Bourne, Abraham Clark, Jonathan Dayton, Wm. Findlay, Thomas Fitzsimons, Elbridge Gerry, Nicholas Gilman, Benjamin Goodhue, James Gordon, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, Samuel Griffin, William Barry Grove, Thomas Hartley, James Hillhouse, William Hindman, Daniel Huger, Israel Jacobs, Philip Key, Aaron Kitchell, Amasa Learned, Richard Bland Lee, George Leonard, Nathaniel Macon, Andrew Moore, Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Cornelius C. Schoonmaker, Theodore Sedgwick, Peter Sylvester, Israel Smith, William Smith, John Steele, Thomas Sumter, Thomas Tudor Tucker, Jeremiah Wadsworth, Alexander White, Hugh Williamson, and Francis Willis.

Nays.—Samuel Livermore, John Francis Mercer, Nathaniel Niles, Josiah Parker, Jonathan Sturges, George Thatcher, and Thomas Tredwell.[46]

Monday, February 11.

Examining Votes for President, &c.

Mr. William Smith, from the committee appointed on the part of this House jointly with a committee appointed on the part of the Senate, to ascertain and report a mode of examining the votes for President and Vice President of the United States, and for other purposes expressed in the resolution of the fifth instant, made a report; which was twice read, and agreed to by the House, as follows:

"That the two Houses shall assemble in the Senate Chamber on Wednesday next, at twelve o'clock: that two persons be appointed tellers on the part of this House, to make a list of the votes as they shall be declared: that the result shall be delivered to the President of the Senate, who shall announce the state of the vote, and the persons elected, to both Houses, assembled as aforesaid, which shall be deemed a declaration of the persons elected President and Vice President, and, together with a list of the votes, be entered on the journal of the two Houses."

Ordered, That Mr. William Smith and Mr. Laurancebe appointed tellers on the part of this House, pursuant to the said report.

Wednesday, February 13.

Votes for President and Vice President.

A message from the Senate informed the House that a President of the Senate is elected for the sole purpose of opening the certificates, and counting the votes of the several States, in the choice of a President and Vice President of the United States; and that the Senate is now ready, in the Senate Chamber, to attend, with this House, on that occasion.

Resolved, That the Speaker, attended by the House, do now withdraw to the Senate Chamber, for the purpose expressed in the said message.

The Speaker accordingly left the chair, and, attended by the House, withdrew to the Senate Chamber, and, after some time, returned to the House.

The Speaker resumed the chair.

Mr. William Smith and Mr. Laurance then delivered in, at the Clerk's table, a list of the votes of the Electors of the several States, in the choice of a President and Vice President of the United States, as the same were declared by the President of the Senate, in the presence of the Senate and of this House; which was ordered to be entered on the journal, and is as follows:

[The same as in the Senate proceedings.]

Thursday, February 28.

Official conduct of the Secretary of the Treasury.

The resolutions brought forward yesterday by Mr. Giles, were called for by that gentleman. The reading being finished, Mr. Ames moved that the resolutions should be taken up.

Mr. Murray suggested the necessity of giving a preference to the Judiciary Bill reported by him some days since. He was seconded by Mr. Key.

The motion for taking up the resolutions was carried, forty members rising in favor of it. The resolutions were accordingly read by the Clerk, and are as follow, viz:

1. Resolved, That it is essential to the due administration of the Government of the United States, that laws making specific appropriations of money should be strictly observed by the administrator of the finances thereof.

2. Resolved, That a violation of a law making appropriations of money, is a violation of that section of the Constitution of the United States which requires that no money shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequence of appropriations made by law.

3. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury has violated the law passed the 4th of August, 1790, making appropriations of certain moneys authorized to be borrowed by the same law, in the following particulars, viz: First, By applying a certain portion of the principal borrowed to the payment of interest falling due upon that principal, which was not authorized by that or any other law. Secondly, By drawing part of the same moneys into the United States, without the instructions of the President of the United States.

4. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury has deviated from the instructions given by the President of the United States, in exceeding the authorities for making loans under the acts of the 4th and 12th of August, 1790.

5. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury has omitted to discharge an essential duty of his office, in failing to give Congress official information in due time, of the moneys drawn by him from Europe into the United States; which drawing commenced December, 1790, and continued till January, 1793; and of the causes of making such drafts.

6. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury has without the instructions of the President of the United States, drawn more moneys borrowed in Holland into the United States than the President of the United States was authorized to draw, under the act of the 12th of August, 1790: which act appropriated two millions of dollars only, when borrowed, to the purchase of the Public Debt: And that he has omitted to discharge an essential duty of his office, in failing to give official information to the Commissioners for purchasing the Public Debt, of the various sums drawn from time to time, suggested by him to have been intended for the purchase of the Public Debt.

7. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury did not consult the public interest in negotiating a loan with the Bank of the United States, and drawing therefrom four hundred thousand dollars, at five per cent. per annum, when a greater sum of public money was deposited in various banks at the respective periods of making the respective drafts.

8. Resolved, That the Secretary of the Treasury has been guilty of an indecorum to this House, in undertaking to judge of its motives in calling for information which was demandable of him, from the constitution of his office; and in failing to give all the necessary information within his knowledge, relatively to the subjects of the reference made to him of the 19th January, 1792, and of the 22d November, 1792, during the present session.

9. Resolved, That a copy of the foregoing resolutions be transmitted to the President of the United States.

Mr. Giles then moved that they should be referred to a Committee of the whole House.

Mr. W. Smith was decidedly opposed to referring those resolutions to the consideration of the Committee of the whole House, because he neither viewed a discussion of them as necessary on the present occasion nor warranted by the nature of the inquiry into the Secretary's conduct. It was trifling with the precious time of the House to lavish it on abstract propositions, when the object of the inquiry ought to be into the facts. He was satisfied that should the House once involve itself in an investigation of theoretic principles of government, the short residue of the session would be exhausted, and no opportunity remain for examining the charges themselves. Those charges being made, it became the House, from a sense of duty to the public and justice to the accused, to proceed immediately to consider them. If the mover intended to apply the principles of the two first resolutions to the facts contained in the subsequent ones, it was unquestionably proper first to substantiate the facts, and then establish the principles which were applicable to them; but it was surely a reversal of order to spend much time in establishing principles, when it might happen that the charges themselves would be totally unsupported. He did not like this mode of proceeding, because it might tend to mislead the House; it was sometimes a parliamentary practice to endeavor to lead the mind to vague and uncertain results, by first laying down theorems from which no one could dissent, and then proceeding by imperceptible shades to move unsettled positions, in order ultimately to entrap the House in a vote which in the first instance it would have rejected. This mode of conducting public business, he considered as inconsistent with fair inquiry. The question was, had the Secretary violated a law? If so, let it be shown; every member was competent to decide so plain a question. He could examine the proofs, read the law, and pronounce him guilty or innocent without the aid of these preliminary metaphysical discussions.

If it were urged that the propositions are so plain and obvious that no time would be lost in considering them, he then begged leave to observe that all antecedent discussions of constitutional questions had never failed to occupy a large portion of their time, and that however self-evident the resolutions might at the first glance appear, a more critical attention would satisfy a mind not much given to doubt that they were by no means so conclusive as to be free from objections.

Though the position contained in the first resolution, as a general rule, was not to be denied; yet it must be admitted, that there may be cases of a sufficient urgency to justify a departure from it, and to make it the duty of the Legislature to indemnify an officer; as if an adherence would in particular cases and under particular circumstances, prove ruinous to the public credit, or prevent the taking measures essential to the public safety, against invasion or insurrection. In cases of that nature, and which cannot be foreseen by the Legislature nor guarded against, a discretionary authority must be deemed to reside in the President, or some other Executive officer, to be exercised for the public good; such exercise, instead of being construed into a crime, would always meet the approbation of the National Legislature. If there be any weight in these remarks, it does not then follow, as a general rule, that it is essential to the due administration of the Government, that laws making specific appropriations should in all cases whatsoever, and under every public circumstance, be strictly observed. Before the committee could come to a vote on such a proposition, it would be proper to examine into the exceptions out of the rule, to state all the circumstances which would warrant any departure from it, to whom the exercise of the discretion should be intrusted, and to what extent. Did any member wish at this period to attempt this inquiry? He supposed not. Let every deviation from law be tested by its own merits or demerits.

The second resolution was liable to stronger objections. It might with propriety be questioned whether, as a general rule, the position was well founded. A law making appropriations may be violated in various particulars without infringing on the constitution, which only enjoins that no moneys shall be drawn from the Treasury but in consequence of the appropriations made by law. This is only to say, that every disbursement must be authorized by some appropriation. Where a sum of money is paid out of the Treasury, the payment of which is authorized by law, the constitution is not violated, yet there may have been a violation of the law in some collateral particulars. There may even have been a shifting of funds, and however exceptionable this may be on other accounts, it would not amount to that species of offence which is created by the constitution. The Comptroller of the Treasury must countersign every warrant, and is responsible that it be authorized by a legal appropriation; yet it cannot be supposed that he is to investigate the source of the fund.

One of the alleged infractions stated in the subsequent resolution, namely, the drawing part of the loans into the United States without the instructions of the President, evinces that the opposite construction is not a sound one. For suppose the fact proved, and suppose it a violation of the law, it certainly would be a very different thing from drawing money out of the Treasury without an appropriation by law; for in this case, there would be no drawing money from the Treasury at all, the money never having been in the Treasury.

Mr. S. then, said, he should also object to referring the last resolution, which is in these words,

"Resolved, That a copy of the foregoing resolutions be transmitted to the President."

The object of this resolution went clearly to direct the President to remove the Secretary from office; the foregoing were to determine the guilt, the last to inflict the punishment, and both the one and other without the accused being heard in his defence. When the violation of the constitution was so uppermost in our minds, it would be indeed astonishing that we should be so hoodwinked as to commit such a palpable violation of it in this instance. The principles of that constitution, careful of the lives and liberties of the citizens, and what is dearer to every man of honor, his reputation, secure to every individual in every class of society, the precious advantage of being heard before he is condemned.

That constitution, peculiarly careful of the reputation of great public functionaries, directs that when accused of a breach of duty, the impeachment must be voted by a majority of the House of Representatives, and tried by the Senate, who are to be on oath, and two-thirds of whom must concur before a sentence can pass, by which the officer is to be deemed guilty. The officer is to be furnished with a copy of the charge, and is heard by himself or his counsel in vindication of his conduct. Such are the solemnities and guards by which they are protected, and which precede a sentence, the only effect of which is a removal from office. But if the House proceed in the manner contemplated by this resolution; if they first vote the charges, and send a copy of them to the President, as an instruction to him to remove the officer, they will violate the sacred and fundamental principles of this, and every free Government. They will condemn a man unheard, nay, without his having even been furnished with the charges against him; they will condemn to infamy a high and responsible officer convicted by the Representatives of the people, of a violation of the important trusts committed to him, without affording him one opportunity of vindicating his character and justifying his conduct.

Mr. Murray said he was opposed to the reference of the resolutions to the Committee of the Whole. He had, as far as the time permitted, examined the several reports on which the examination depended, and was then ready to vote on them, though he confessed, from the intricacy which was inherent in such a subject, as well as from the vast variety of the detail involved, he had not had sufficient time for a complete investigation. Nor did he imagine that any man who had not previously meditated on the subject for a length of time, and made choice of his ground of attack, could say he was completely master of the subject. Some vote, however, was now rendered essential to the character, not only of Government, but of the gentleman who presided over the finances of the country. But three days were left for this inquiry, and to finish a great deal of other business; and he thought that despatch which was usual in the House ought to be used in preference to the indulgence which a committee afforded. As to the abstract propositions, if it were necessary now to go into them, he thought it would be proper to decide on them first. He thought it most logical to lay down principles of reasoning before facts were developed. Were they agreed to by the House, it would be under provisions and restrictions. They could not have the implicit force of axioms, but at most must be yielded to as wholesome maxims, the application of which must be frequently modified by a certain degree of discretion. With respect to all the other resolutions, he imagined they would, on examination, be found to be unwarranted by facts. He hoped the movers and supporters of the resolutions would not be gratified at so late a season by the House in resolving itself into a Committee of the Whole. The mode in which they were brought forward did not entitle them to much confidence. He said, a more unhandsome proceeding he had never seen in Congress. It had been a practice, derived from the lights of common liberty, common right, and the first principles of justice, that whoever was charged with a violation of law on which a punishment ensued, should have some mode of answering to the charge. It had, in a recent instance, been the practice of Congress, when an officer's conduct was even in the first instance inquired into, to afford the officer an opportunity of attending upon the examination on which his offence or his freedom from blame was to appear. He alluded to the conduct of the House when an examination took place relatively to the failure of General St. Clair's expedition. Suspicions were entertained that blame lay somewhere. A committee was appointed to examine. The three officers particularly concerned were, he understood, invited, as it were, to come before the committee, to explain, to interrogate, and to give information. Though the Secretary of War was not permitted to explain on this floor, justice and delicacy, and the most common principles of jurisprudence, to which we attempted to hold some analogy, demanded that he should be heard somewhere, and the committee was renewed for this purpose. The Quartermaster General asked to be heard on this floor. Though refused, he was permitted to attend that committee on whose examination his character as a Quartermaster depended. Were any man responsible as an officer to this House to fall under the suspicion of its members, a regard to decency and to the established rights of citizenship, would teach gentlemen to inquire formally before they hastily laid a charge on the table, to which they might move the assent of the House. But in this proceeding a Legislative charge was gone into before inquiry had been instituted. Every rule of justice, and all that delicacy which ought ever to attend her progress, had been disregarded, and in the very first instance, a number of charges are brought forward, not for inquiry, but conviction, which, if sanctioned by a majority of the House, are to be followed by the dismission of one of the highest officers in the Government. This mode was as tyrannical as it was new, and if any thing could throw a bias against the resolutions, independent of inquiry, it was the partial and unjust form in which the proceeding had commenced. Resolutions of conviction might rise out of the report of a committee of inquiry, who would act as a Grand Jury to the House, but could never precede it. He hoped the House would not refer to a Committee of the Whole what might be decided in the House with more despatch.

Mr. Page in reply to Mr. Smith, spoke, in substance, as follows:

Mr. Chairman: The more precious our time, the more readily shall I vote for a consideration of the first resolution; for I think it of more consequence that we should decide on it, than on any other before us. We find, from the inquiry which has been set on foot into the conduct of the Secretary of the Treasury, that he differs from the mover of the resolution in opinion respecting his powers, and the constitutional obligation he may be under of regarding acts of appropriation; it therefore must be the wish of the Secretary himself, whether we agree with him or not; and it is our duty, as soon as possible, I conceive, to let our constituents know whether we approve, or not, of his opinion. The Secretary himself, I think, confesses "that a strict adherence to appropriations, in certain cases, would be pusillanimity." He preferred, no doubt, the public good, which he thought he had in view, to a strict compliance with an act of appropriation. It becomes us, then, to determine whether we wish that the Secretary shall hereafter be bound by our acts of appropriation or not.