FIRST CONGRESS.—FIRST SESSION. (continued 9)

The Delaware is one extreme, the Potomac another; but when I reflect how anxious some gentlemen are for the one, and some for the other, I am willing to accommodate both parties, by advancing to a middle ground, to which I hope the public mind will be reconciled. I was also influenced in fixing this opinion, by the sentiment of the celebrated Montesquieu. He had laid it down, that in a country partaking of northern and southern interests, of a poor and productive soil, the centre and the influence of Government ought to incline to that part where the former circumstances prevailed; because necessity stimulates to industry, produces good habits and a surplus of labor; because such parts are the nurseries of soldiers and sailors, and the sources of that energy which is the best security of the Government.

The Susquehanna is, in my opinion, south-west of the centre of wealth, population, and resources of every kind. I would beg leave, gentlemen, to suggest another idea. In my view, on the principles of population, the Susquehanna is far beyond the centre; for I do not think it just, on this subject, to take the constitutional computation. Will any gentlemen pretend, that men, who are merely the subject of property or wealth, should be taken into the estimate; that the slaves of the country, men who have no rights to protect, (being deprived of them all,) should be taken into view, in determining the centre of Government? If they were considered, gentlemen might as well estimate the black cattle of New England.

I would ask, if it is of no importance to take a position in which the credit of the Government may procure those supplies that its necessities might require? Will the strength and riches of the country be to the north or to the south of the Susquehanna? Certainly to the north.

It is the opinion of all the Eastern States, that the climate of the Potomac is not only unhealthy, but destructive to northern constitutions. It is of importance to attend to this, for whether it be true or false, such are the public prepossessions. Vast numbers of Eastern adventures have gone to the Southern States, and all have found their graves there; they have met destruction as soon as they arrived. These accounts have been spread, and filled the Northern people with apprehension.

Mr. Vining.—Although I must acknowledge myself a party to the bargain, yet I had no share in making it. It is to me an unexpected bargain. Though the interest of the State which I have the honor to represent is involved in it, I am yet to learn of the committee, whether Congress are to tickle the trout on the stream of the Codorus, to build their sumptuous palaces on the banks of the Potomac, or to admire commerce with her expanded wings, on the waters of the Delaware. I have, on this occasion, educated my mind to impartiality, and have endeavored to chastise its prejudices.

I confess to the House, and to the world, that, viewing this subject, with all its circumstances, I am in favor of the Potomac. I wish the seat of Government to be fixed there; because I think the interest, the honor, and the greatness of this country require it. I look on it as the centre from which those streams are to flow that are to animate and invigorate the body politic. From thence, it appears to me, the rays of Government will most naturally diverge to the extremities of the Union. I declare, that I look on the Western Territory in an awful and striking point of view. To that region the unpolished sons of earth are flowing from all quarters; men, to whom the protection of the laws, and the controlling force of the Government, are equally necessary. From this great consideration, I conclude that the banks of the Potomac are the proper station.

Mr. Seney mentioned Peach Bottom, on the Susquehanna, about fifteen miles above tide-water, as the proper place.

Mr. Goodhue did not wish the particular spot pointed out, because some inconvenience would result from such a measure; however, he was free to declare, that his own idea was in favor of a situation near Wright's Ferry.

Mr. Heister moved to insert Harrisburg in the resolution. He conceived the spot to be more eligible than any yet mentioned; from hence there was an uninterrupted navigation to the sources of the river, and through this place runs the great Western road leading to Fort Pitt, and the Western Territory. A water communication can be effected at small expense with Philadelphia. The waters of the Swetara, a branch of the Susquehanna, about eight miles below Harrisburg, run to the north-east, and are navigable fifteen miles from thence to the Tulpehoken, a branch of the Schuylkill; a canal may be cut across, of about a mile and a half, the ground has been actually surveyed, and found practicable; this will unite the Susquehanna and Delaware, and open a passage for the produce of an immense tract of country. It is but little further from Philadelphia than is Wright's Ferry; and, on many accounts, he thought it a preferable situation for the permanent seat of Government.

Mr. Madison meant to pay due attention to every argument that could be urged on this important question. Facts had been asserted, the impressions of which he wished to be erased, if they were not well founded. It has been said, that the communication with the Western Territory, by the Susquehanna, is more convenient than by the Potomac. I apprehend this is not the case; and the propriety of our decision will depend, in a great measure, on the superior advantages of one of these two streams. It is agreed, on all hands, that we ought to have some regard to the convenience of the Atlantic navigation. Now, to embrace this object, a position must be taken on some navigable river; to favor the communication with the Western Territory, its arms ought likewise to extend themselves towards that region. I did not suppose it would have been necessary to bring forward charts and maps, as has been done by others, to show the committee the comparative situation of those rivers. I flattered myself it was sufficiently understood, to enable us to decide the question of superiority; but I am now inclined to believe, that gentlemen have embraced an error, and I hope they are not determined to vote under improper impressions. I venture to pledge myself for the demonstration, that the communication with the Western Territory, by the Potomac, is more certain and convenient than the other. And if the question is as important as it is admitted to be, gentlemen will not shut their ears to information; they will not precipitate the decision; or if they regard the satisfaction of our constituents, they will allow them to be informed of all the facts and arguments that lead to the decision of a question in which the general and particular interests of all parts of the Union are involved.

Mr. Stone found gentlemen had determined on a step that was not generally liked; he wished, therefore, the committee to rise, and give all of them an opportunity of trying to mend the bargain that had been made; perhaps they might find, upon reflection, that they ought to decide the question on more national principles than they seemed yet to be governed by.

Mr. Seney could not say how far the motion was agreeable to every part of America; but he believed it would be acceptable to a very considerable part of the State he had the honor to represent.

Mr. Sumter was in favor of the committee's rising, in order to give gentlemen time to ascertain the facts necessary to guide them to a decision. There was one impropriety which struck him forcibly; the resolution adopted as a principle that the seat of Government ought to be in a convenient place for the navigation of the Atlantic Ocean. But the situation mentioned in the resolution under consideration had no communication whatever with the Atlantic navigation. It had been said, that the Susquehanna afforded the most convenient communication with the Western Territory. He believed the Hudson possessed superior advantages; it connected with the country about the Lakes and the Ohio. From New York to Albany was navigable; from thence to Schenectady, there was a short portage; after ascending Schenectady, there was a short portage of half a mile to the Mohawk; from thence, another short portage to Wood Creek, and thence into Lake Ontario, which connects with Lake Erie; and from thence are portages to the Wabash, Miami, Muskingum or Alleghany, all falling into the Ohio. But the Potomac possessed advantages superior to these; and was, both on account of communicating with the Atlantic and Western Territory, much to be preferred to the Susquehanna. He assured gentlemen that he was unbiased in giving a preference to the Potomac; because, if he studied his own convenience, he should consider New York as more eligible than either. It accommodated the Atlantic navigation in a superior manner, and had its pretensions to a connection with the Western waters, as he had already shown. He hoped, however, that the subject would be debated with candor and good temper, and decided in the way most likely to promote the general interests and harmony of the Union.

Mr. Sherman was against taking up the subject so soon; but since it had been determined against him,—gentlemen, he presumed, had endeavored to make up their minds,—he had turned his attention to it, and was now prepared to decide.

Mr. Clymer knew the advantages possessed by the Susquehanna in communicating with the Western country; they were mentioned by his colleague; but, with the additional circumstance that the Juniata branch afforded a convenient navigation to a road lately laid out by the State of Pennsylvania, which connected with the Kisskaminetas, from whence was a short voyage down the Alleghany, and shorter still down that to the Ohio, at Pittsburg. He questioned much if the navigation by the Potomac was so convenient.

Mr. Stone did not mean to govern his vote on this occasion by what was said to be the sense of the citizens of Maryland; because they were, he apprehended, divided in opinion. One part or the other would be particularly benefited, as the seat of Government should be fixed either on the Susquehanna or Potomac, because those rivers watered its territory. Perhaps the majority of the present inhabitants would prefer the Susquehanna; but as their settlements extended westward, and the population increased, the majority would be favored by the Potomac.

Mr. Seney did not mean to determine this question on the principle of benefiting, exclusively, the citizens of Maryland; he considered himself as a Representative of the Union, and should decide on the principle of general convenience.

Mr. Tucker hoped the committee would rise, in order to give gentlemen time to consider the subject maturely, and to prepare themselves to come forward and discuss, fairly and fully, the advantages and disadvantages of the rival places. He could not believe they meant to decide a question of this importance on the superficial discussion which had taken place.

The question, on the committee's rising, was now put, and it passed in the negative; for it 23, against it 27.

Mr. Stone.—We are called upon, sir, to determine a question that has not been introduced to our notice more than two hours and a half; a question too, as admitted on both sides, of the highest importance to the interests and harmony of the Union. I cannot help thinking it a hardship to be compelled so abruptly to a decision; but since it must be the case, I shall take the liberty of suggesting a few of my thoughts, in order to justify the vote I mean to give.

There are a variety of considerations and doubts in my mind, respecting the two rivers that have been mentioned. These doubts are increased when a particular place is named upon one of them; but had gentlemen told us, that they had settled this point also, it might have precluded any sort of debate whatever; because when an agreement had taken place, not only as to the banks of the Susquehanna, but as to the favored spot on those banks, we should not have entertained a single hope that we could have changed the position. But, as gentlemen differ among themselves on this point, perhaps they will permit us to participate with them in selecting the place most likely to give general satisfaction. But how can they suppose we are prepared on this head, without a general consideration of all the places which may offer themselves along the east bank of the river.

I am not apprised, sir, of the extent of this continent certainly, because I never calculated it by figures, or measured it on the map; but if there is the smallest degree of accuracy in the draft that has been handed about, no man, who takes a view of it, in my opinion, will doubt a single moment, whether the Susquehanna is the river, which nearly equally divides the territory of the United States, in its extent north and south, that separates, in equal parts, the country east and west. The eastern part, I take it, is little, if any thing, more than half as large as what lies west. We observe that the course of the main branch tends more toward the Atlantic Ocean, than it does toward the Western Territory; but even its western inclination goes only toward the lakes Erie and Ontario, through the middle of which runs the boundary line of the United States. How can this, then, be supposed a direct or convenient communication with that part of the country which is usually termed, and is in fact, the Western Territory?

In fixing the permanent residence, we ought not only to have in view the immediate importance of the States, but also what is likely to be their weight at a future day; not that we should consider a visionary importance, or chimerical expectation, but such a one as can be demonstrated with as much certainty as effects follow their causes. I apprehend the increase of population to the eastward is merely conditional; there is nothing to invite people to settle in the northern parts of this continent, in preference to the southern; even if they were settled there, every principle which encourages population would operate to induce them to emigrate to the southern and western parts. We know the northern climate is severe, the winters long, and summers short, and that the soil is less fertile. Were we not assuredly acquainted that this was the case on the continent of America, we should be led to the same conclusion, by reasoning from our knowledge of the other parts of the globe. Men multiply in proportion to the means of support, and this is more abundant in a mild than a severe climate. Hence, I infer, that the climate, and means of subsistence, will ever operate as a stimulus to promote the population of the Southern, in preference to the Northern States. This doctrine is daily exemplified. If we advert to the situation of that part of the Western country, called Kentucky, and compare its increase of population since the war, with any part of the Eastern States, we shall find men multiplied there beyond any thing known in America; and if we consider its natural advantages, we shall conclude it will be an important part of the Union. The river which has been mentioned by the southern gentlemen is, as far as I am acquainted, extremely well calculated to furnish Government with the key of that country; and a river, I believe, richer in its exports than any I have contemplated on the face of the earth.

A call was now made to order, and Mr. Stone sat down. A desultory conversation took place on the point of order. It was contended, that the question was on the insertion of Harrisburg, in the proposition offered by Mr. Goodhue; whereas Mr. Stone was speaking to the main question.

Messrs. Carroll, Lee and Madison insisted that Mr. Stone was in order, inasmuch as Mr. Heister's motion necessarily involved the main question, and was inseparable from it.

But it was decided by the Chair to be out of order; whereupon the question was taken, without further debate, on inserting Harrisburg, and it was determined in the negative.

The main question being now before the committee,

Mr. Stone proceeded. I feel myself unhappy to be obliged to address gentlemen, who are not disposed to attend to any thing I may say; but as gentlemen have chosen this time for discussing the subject, they will not think it improper in me to persist in detailing my ideas. When I was interrupted by the call to order, I was about to show the importance of the Potomac to the United States. Its waters afford a practical, safe, and short communication with the Ohio and Mississippi, beyond comparison preferable to the Susquehanna. If it is intended that the people settled upon those great rivers should communicate with the General Government, after ascending the former they must proceed a vast distance northward, up the Alleghany, against a rapid stream, before they can reach the Susquehanna. I am inclined to believe a land-carriage would be better than such a laborious round-about water communication. Now the Potomac, as I am informed, connects with the Youghiogheny, a river less rapid than the Alleghany, and is itself communicable with the Atlantic. In this case, the Potomac will be the highway for such vast quantities of wealth as to give every superiority; and, however we may determine at this day, it will not be long before the seat of Government must be carried thither. The vast population that is extending itself through the Western country requires that the Government should take a position favorable to its convenience; because new settlements at a vast distance from the old are more exposed to temptation than others; but in the present case, it is proper for us to guard against the operation of a foreign country, which seems to be forming settlements near our frontiers to rival ours. It may be the more necessary, inasmuch as we ought to keep the boundary line distinct between the Spaniards and savages, as I fear, do what we will, we run the greatest risk of entering into a quarrel with them; for, it is well known, that emigrants, in forming new settlements, are not much concerned about an ascertainment of jurisdiction; they are generally bold, enterprising spirits, who feel some aversion to strict government; it is therefore necessary that the Government should approach toward them, and be placed in such situation as would give it the greatest possible influence over them. Beside their contiguity to a rival nation, they are independent in their condition; they want hardly any thing this country can give; their soil is rich and fertile; their exports will furnish them with every foreign article from the southward which they can require. Their interests are more strongly connected with the Southern States than the Southern States are with the Eastern. The advantages of this Government are felt, in a peculiar manner, by the mercantile and commercial States; the agricultural States have not the same strong reasons for maintaining the Union. Hence we may apprehend that the Western country may be inclined, as it advances its importance, to drop off. The Susquehanna is no bond by which to hold them; its direction is more northern than westerly. Upon the whole, I am inclined to believe that it would not give general satisfaction at the present day; and the inequality would daily grow more striking, until we should be compelled to remove again to where there was a probability of finding a centre of territory as well as population. I have thrown out these ideas in a crude manner, but gentlemen have forced me to it by their urgency to take the question; I could wish to be allowed time for further discussion, and I believe it would be no ill sacrifice of a day, if we were to put off the determination till to-morrow.

Mr. Lee observed, that since gentlemen would not admit of a moment's delay; since they seemed to declare, that they had settled the matter without giving an opportunity for full discussion; since the House were hurried to a decision on a point that involved the welfare of the community, duty to his country, duty to the better half of the territory of the United States, called on him to come forward with another proposition.

He then moved to strike out the words "east bank of the Susquehanna," and to insert a clause to this effect; that, whereas the banks of the Potomac united all the aforesaid advantages, with fertility of soil, salubrity of climate, &c. Resolved, That the permanent seat of Government ought to be fixed somewhere on the banks of the said river.

He flattered himself that these two rival places would be considered with an attention that would do honor to the House; that their several advantages would be fully compared, and that such a decision would result as would be for the lasting benefit of the United States.

He then stated at large the comparative advantages of the Potomac; its great and increasing improvements; the extent of its navigation; its direct communication with the Western country, and its easy communication with the Eastern and Southern States.

The House, he said, were now to determine whether regard was to be had to the people of the Western Territory, to the greater portion of the territory of the Union; in point of climate, it was extremely salubrious; in fertility of soil, it was exceeded by no country on earth. Thither would emigrants flock from all quarters.

He asked whether this Government was intended for a temporary or a lasting one? Whether it was to be a fleeting vision, or to continue for ages? He hoped the result would proclaim that the Government was calculated for perpetuity; and that the common interests of the country had been consulted. If that was done, the Government would be removed to the Potomac; if not, we should stop short of it; and what would be the consequence? He said he was averse to sound alarms, or introduce terrors into the House; but if they were well founded, he thought it his duty. It was well known with what difficulty the constitution was adopted by the State of Virginia. It was then said, that there would be confederacies of the States east of Pennsylvania, which would destroy the Southern States; that they would unite their councils in discussing questions relative to their particular interests, and the Southern States would be disregarded. To these suspicions, it was answered, no! It was contended that the magnanimous policy, arising from mutual interests and common dangers would unite all the States, and make them pursue objects of general good. But if it should be found that there were such confederacies as were predicted, that the Northern States did consult their partial interests, and form combinations to support them, without regarding their Southern brethren, they would be alarmed, and the faith of all south of the Potomac would be shaken. It would be shown to them, that what had been predicted by the enemies to the constitution had come to pass; that the Northern States had not waited till the Government was organized before they sacrificed the Southern people to their own interests.

Let the seat of Government be fixed where it may, Virginia had not solicited Congress to place the seat of Government in her State. She only contended, that the interests of the Southern and Western country should be consulted; and he declared that these interests would be sacrificed, if Congress fixed upon any place but the Potomac. The greater part of Virginia was distant from that river. Many parts were not nearer than New Jersey. She wished not to have the seat on the Potomac but for the general good; it was not for the benefit of that State, but for the benefit of the Union.

Mr. Lawrence said, it was improper and unnecessary to hold out terrors to the fancy of members. The true way to convince them, was to address their understandings. He was certain there was no dangerous confederacy which the gentleman had talked of; and believed the conduct of the Northern States would bear the strictest scrutiny; that, if probed to the bottom, it would be found fair and candid. He remembered in the debate upon the Tonnage bill, a gentleman from Virginia observed, that could the moderate and equal policy of that day's proceedings have been foreseen in the convention of Virginia, many objections that were there produced against the constitution would have been thereby obviated.

He trusted, that, in conducting the business before them, gentlemen could find no cause, eventually, to entertain different sentiments from what he then delivered.

Mr. Madison.—I acknowledge, that, on a former day, I made the observation alluded to with singular complacency. I said, I had found a moderation and liberality prevailing here, which I sincerely believed, if foreseen in the convention of Virginia, would have obviated a very powerful objection to the adoption of the Federal constitution. But, give me leave now to say, that if a Prophet had risen in that body, and brought the declarations and proceedings of this day into view, that I as firmly believe Virginia might not have been a part of the Union at this moment.

A motion was now made for the committee to rise, and several gentlemen said, they wished it to prevail, in order that an opportunity might be afforded for a fuller discussion.

Mr. Sedgwick hoped the committee would not rise. Will it be contended, that the majority shall not govern; and shall the minority, because they cannot carry their points, accuse the House of want of candor? Are we to be told, that an important State would not have joined the Union, had they known what would have been the proceedings of this House. Gentlemen have brought forward this business themselves; they have precipitated the House into it. We prayed, we supplicated for time; and now gentlemen, from some causes not explained, wish to postpone the matter, in order to have time to deliberate. He believed that a deliberation of six weeks would not alter a single opinion, and therefore it was not proper to consume the public time uselessly.

Mr. Madison.—When I alluded to the proceedings of this day, I contemplated the manner in which the business was conducted; and though I acknowledge that a majority ought to govern, yet they have no authority to deprive the minority of a constitutional right; they have no authority to debar us the right of free debate. An important and interesting question being under consideration, we ought to have time allowed for its discussion. Facts have been stated on one side, and members ought to be indulged on the other with an opportunity of collecting and ascertaining other facts. We have a right to bring forward all the arguments which we think can, and ought to have an influence on the decision. It is unusual, on a partial discussion, even of questions of inferior magnitude, to decide in the course of a single day. How, then, can gentlemen reconcile their conduct of this day to the liberality they have hitherto shown? This manner of proceeding would mark a genius in this body which will contradict the expectations of its warmest friends. I hope nothing will be fixed by a hasty determination. I said before, and repeat it again, that I wish to make some observations on what has been advanced, for which at present there is not time. But, if there was, I do not wish to address a determined and silent majority. No, sir, if this be the temper of to-day, let me appeal to a more favorable temper to-morrow. If gentlemen refuse this appeal, I must submit; but I will, to the last moment, assert my right, and remonstrate against a precipitate decision.

Mr. Burke observed, that the Northern States had had a fortnight to manage this matter, and would not now allow the Southern States a day. What was the conduct of gentlemen? A league has been formed between the Northern States and Pennsylvania.

Mr. Fitzsimons interrupted Mr. Burke, and denied the assertion, as it respected Pennsylvania.

Mr. Burke then proceeded, and said that the Eastern members had combined with some other States, he could not positively say which, but the first information that was furnished was given this morning, every gentleman had heard it as well as himself, but that had nothing to do with his object; he wanted time to get information; and called on gentlemen, for the honor of the House, to comply with this request.

Mr. Wadsworth said, he rejoiced to hear the gentlemen calling for time, and crying out fair play. He remembered when he entreated the gentleman who spoke last, and others, not to precipitate themselves into this situation; his entreaties had been of no avail. Knowing that the pride of a majority was one of those things to which he had to submit, he, with all the New England members, solicited for time. With respect to bargaining, he believed that it would reflect no honor on either side of the House. He said he must either give his vote now, or submit to more bargaining. He was willing that the whole business of bargaining should be exposed; he would not excuse himself; he did not dare to go to the Potomac. He feared that the whole of New England would consider the Union as destroyed. Since the matter had been so prematurely brought on, since members had been forced, and, as it were, dragged by the throat to this business, he hoped it was now finished.

The question was now put, on the rising of the committee, and carried: Whereupon the committee rose and reported progress, and then the House adjourned.

Thursday, September 4.

Seat of Government.

The House again resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the Resolution for establishing a permanent Seat of Government, Mr. Boudinot in the chair.

Mr. Stone wished to hear the sentiments of the gentleman who first brought forward this business: he expected to derive some advantage from that gentleman's knowledge of the country, which, he presumed, was pretty accurate, as it was derived from actual observation.

After waiting some time,

Mr. Stone repeated his request, under an apprehension that he had not the honor of being heard by the worthy gentleman.

Mr. Goodhue rose and said, he had given his sentiments yesterday, but, if the gentleman desired it, he was ready to repeat them.

Mr. Stone said, he addressed his request to the gentleman from Pennsylvania.

Mr. Scott.—I understood the gentleman so, and I have no objection to giving my sentiments on the occasion. The resolution I laid on the table has been honored with the vote of a majority of the committee. It contains such principles as, I believe, ought to govern in the settlement of the grand question: they have declared, that they mean to be governed by these principles, and this is a declaration to the world that their hearts are good. What may follow in consequence of that resolution, cannot impeach the motive, it can only prove, that our heads are uninformed; an error of the head is pardonable, but an error of the heart is not easily forgiven.

Whether the spot which has been moved is the right spot or not, seems to be the matter under inquiry. I had prepared myself with documents, which I should have produced had they been needed, to prove, that the State I have the honor to represent involves, within its limits the centre of wealth and population of the United States, taking the sea-coast for a guide; for all that has been said of the importance of the Western country, has not prevailed on me to imagine, that all the vacant territory should be taken into view, the same as the settled and cultivated parts; my resolution had no other idea but that the Atlantic States should consent to go as near that territory as their convenience would allow. I am convinced that going further than would suit the Atlantic States would injure the Western country itself.

Mr. Madison said, if this delay should not have produced any alteration in the sentiments of the gentlemen, it will at least soften that hard decision which seems to threaten the friends of the Potomac. He hoped that all would concur in the great principle on which they ought to conduct and decide this business; an equal attention to the rights of the community. No government, he said, not even the most despotic, could, beyond a certain point, violate that idea of justice and equal right which prevailed in the mind of the community. In Republican Governments, justice and equality form the basis of the system; and perhaps the structure can rest on no other that the wisdom of man can devise. In a Federal Republic, give me leave to say, it is even more necessary and proper, that a sacred regard should be paid to these considerations. For beyond the sense of the community at large, which has its full agency in such a system, no such Government can act with safety. The Federal ingredient involves local distinctions, which not only produce local jealousies, but give, at the same time, a greater local capacity to support, and insist upon equitable demands. In a Confederacy of States, in which the people operate, in one respect as citizens, and in another as forming political communities, the local Governments will ever possess a keener sense and capacity, to take advantage of those powers, on which the protection of local rights depends. If these great rights be the basis of republics, and if there be a double necessity of attending to them in a Federal Republic, it is further to be considered, that there is no one right, of which the people can judge with more ease and certainty, and of which they will judge with more jealousy, than of the establishment of the permanent seat of Government; and I am persuaded, that however often this subject may be discussed in the representative body, or however the attention of the committee may be drawn to it, the observations I have made will be more and more verified. We see the operation of this sentiment fully exemplified in what has taken place in the several States. In every instance where the seat of Government has been placed in an uncentral position, we have seen the people struggling to place it where it ought to be. In some instances they have not yet succeeded, but I believe they will succeed in all. In many they have actually gained their point.

With respect, however, to the Federal Government, there is one consideration that shows, in a peculiar manner, the necessity and policy of paying a strict attention to this principle. One of the greatest objections which has been made by the opponents of the system, which has been allowed most weight by its friends, is the extent of the United States. It has been asserted by some, and almost feared by others, that within so great a space, no free Government can exist. I hope and trust, that the opinion is erroneous; but, at the same time, I acknowledge it to have a certain degree of force, and it is incumbent on those who wish well to the Union, to diminish this inconvenience as much as possible. The way to diminish it, is to place the Government in that spot which will be least removed from every part of the empire. Carry it to a remote position, and it will be equivalent to an extension of our limits; and if our limits are already extended so far as warrants, in any degree, the apprehension before mentioned, we ought to take care not to extend them further.

The seat of Government is of great importance, if you consider the diffusion of wealth that proceeds from this source. I presume that the expenditures which will take place, where the Government will be established by those who are immediately concerned in its administration, and by others who may resort to it, will not be less than half a million dollars a year. It is to be regretted that those who may be most convenient to the centre should enjoy this advantage to a higher degree than others; but the inequality is an evil imposed by necessity; we diminish it as we place the source from which those emanations of wealth are to proceed as near the centre as possible.

If we consider, sir, the effects of Legislative power on the aggregate community, we must feel equal inducements to look for the centre, in order to find the proper seat of Government. Those who are most adjacent to the seat of Legislation will always possess advantages over others. An earlier knowledge of the laws, a greater influence in enacting them, better opportunities for anticipating them, and a thousand other circumstances, will give a superiority to those who are thus situated. If it were possible to promulgate our laws, by some instantaneous operation, it would be of less consequence in that point of view where the Government might be placed; but if, on the contrary, time is necessary for this purpose, we ought, as far as possible, to put every part of the community on a level.

If we consider the influence of the Government in its Executive Department, there is no less reason to conclude that it ought to be placed in the centre of the Union. It ought to be in a situation to command information relative to every part of the Union, to watch every conjuncture, to seize every circumstance that can be improved. The Executive eye ought to be placed where it can best see the dangers which may threaten, and the Executive arm, whence it may be extended most effectually to the protection of every part. Perhaps it is peculiarly necessary, that, in looking for the position, we should keep our eye as much as possible towards our Western borders; for a long time dangers will be most apt to assail that quarter of the Union.

He was sure, that if justice required us to take any one position in preference to another, we had every inducement, both of interest and of prudence to fix on the Potomac, as most satisfactory to our Western brethren. It is impossible to reflect a moment on the possible severance of that branch of the Union without seeing the mischiefs which such an event must create. The area of the United States divided into two equal parts, will leave, perhaps, one half on the west side of the Alleghany Mountains. From the fertility of the soil, the fineness of the climate, and every thing that can favor a growing population, we may suppose the settlement will go on with every degree of rapidity which our imagination can conceive.

If the calculation be just, that we double in twenty-five years, we shall speedily behold an astonishing mass of people on the Western waters. Whether this great mass will form a permanent part of the confederacy, or whether it will be separated into an alien, a jealous and a hostile people, may depend on the system of measures that is shortly to be taken. The difference, he observed, between considering them in the light of fellow-citizens, bound to us by a common affection, obeying common laws, pursuing a common good, and considering them in the other light, presents one of the most interesting questions that can occupy an American mind. Instead of peace and friendship, we shall have rivalship and enmity; instead of being a great people, invulnerable on all sides, and without the necessity of those military establishments which other nations require, we shall be driven into the same expensive and dangerous means of defence. We shall be obliged to lay burthens on the people, to support establishments which, sooner or later, may prove fatal to their liberties. It is incumbent on us, if we wish to act the part of magnanimous legislators, or patriotic citizens, to consider well, when we are about to take a step of such vast importance, that it be directed by the views he had described; we must consider what is just, what is equal, and what is satisfactory.

On a candid view of the two rivers, he flattered himself that the seat which would most correspond with the public interest would be found on the banks of the Potomac. It was proper that we should have some regard to the centre of territory; if that was to have weight, he begged leave to say, that there was no comparison between the two rivers. He defied any gentleman to cast his eye in the most cursory manner over a map and say that the Potomac is not much nearer this centre than any part of the Susquehanna. If we measure from the banks of the Potomac to the most eastern parts of the United States, it is less distant than to the most southern. If we measure this great area diagonally, the Potomac will have the advantage. If you draw a line perpendicularly to the direction of the Atlantic coast, we shall find that it will run more equally through the Potomac than through any part of the Union; or, if there be any difference between one side and the other, there will be a greater space on the south-west than on the north-east. All the maps of the United States show the truth of this. From the Atlantic coast to that line which separates the British possessions from the United States, the average distance is not more than one hundred and fifty miles. If you take the average breadth of the other great division of the United States, it will be found to be six, seven, and eight hundred miles.

From this view of the subject, which is not easy to describe by words, but which will strike every eye that looks on a map, I am sure that if the Potomac is not the geographical centre, it is because the Susquehanna is less so.

Mr. Clymer begged to set the gentleman right; his colleague, if he understood him, had only related the communication by the north-western branches, but there was a communication by the Juniata, a branch of the Susquehanna, about fifteen miles above Harrisburg, tending westerly, and navigable eighty miles, from whence to the Connemagh was a portage, with a road actually laid out of about forty miles, hence you descend the Kisskaminetas to the Alleghany, and from thence to Pittsburg is thirty miles.

Mr. Scott knew this communication pretty well, but we who live in that country never take it into consideration, as the waters are too small to afford a certainty of communication, but even here the portage was greater than between the Potomac and Youghiogheny.

Mr. Clymer said, with respect to the navigation of the Juniata, that it was in evidence before the House of Assembly of Pennsylvania, when they were considering the means of uniting that navigation with the western waters, that produce to the amount of fourteen hundred bushels had been brought down it to Middletown.

Mr. Madison proceeded and said, he wished every fact to be ascertained that could throw any light upon the subject. Taking the Susquehanna, as it was practicable for navigation, it would be found, that through that route of communication, Fort Pitt would be four or five hundred miles from the proposed seat on its banks, and that the distance by land was not less than two hundred and fifty miles; whereas, through the Potomac the distance from the proposed spot on its banks to Fort Pitt was not calculated at more than two hundred and fifty miles, and he believed the distance by land would be found not to exceed one hundred and sixty or one hundred and seventy miles.

Whether we measure the distance by land or water, then, the result is in favor of the Potomac. If we consider the progress already made in opening this great channel, its title becomes still stronger. Let me add, that it has been found, on accurate research, that the waters communicating with the Ohio are not more than two or three miles distant from the sources of the Potomac. This is a fact of peculiar importance.

The gentleman from Massachusetts yesterday raised great objections against the Potomac, because it was, as he supposed, subject to periodical maladies, from which the other river was free. I am not authorized, from personal experience, or very particular information, to draw a comparison between them; but there are some general facts that may serve to show, that if there is any difference, it is more likely to be in favor of the Potomac than of the Susquehanna. The position contemplated on the banks of the former is considerably further from tide water than the place proposed on the latter. On this account, therefore, we have little reason to suppose that the Potomac is more unhealthy. If we regard their comparative situations, westwardly, the spot on the Potomac is almost as much further to the west, as it is distant from the proposed spot on the Susquehanna; and he well knew that, generally speaking, as were tire towards the Western and upper country, we are generally removed from the causes of those diseases to which southern situations are exposed. As the two places are moreover in the same latitude, the objection advanced, with respect to that point, cannot apply to one more than the other. It is only their western or eastern position, their remoteness from, or their proximity to the lower country, and to fresh or stagnant waters, that can possibly affect the question. It is not because we advance so much to the south that we advance to the centre, it is because we go more to the west. I do not know that there is a difference of more than a degree and five or six minutes between the latitude of New York and the place proposed on the Potomac.

Mr. Ames never intended that this question should be carried through the committee by the strength of a silent majority; he had confidence in the weight of the arguments to be urged in favor of the Susquehanna, and he was willing to put the decision of the question on that ground. He would now come forward, and give the reasons of his opinion, especially as gentlemen had entered fully into the reasons which guided their own to a different conclusion. He did not conceive it would be necessary for him, coming from the part of the United States from which he did, to disclaim the local views and narrow prejudices with which the subject teemed. He had feared, when the question was first brought forward, that the minds of gentlemen would be highly fermented, indeed so much, that he almost despaired of coming to a proper decision, nor did he think these apprehensions were illusive, if he judged from what had already taken place. He had observed that some gentlemen, whose discernments were clear and who were generally guided by the straight line of rectitude, had been most surprisingly warped on the present occasion; he was fearful that their wishes had misled them from a due regard of the real object of their pursuit, viz: the public interest and convenience. He was sensible, that he himself was liable to some improper impressions; but he trusted he did not feel them in that degree which he thought he saw in others.

He was willing to be led by the great principles which other gentlemen had laid down as the rule of their decision; but he thought they would lead to a different conclusion from what had been drawn from them; he admitted that a central situation is to be taken, and in considering this centre, the centre of a sea-coast line ought to be regarded, because it is more conveniently accessible, has more wealth, and more people than an equal area of inland country. Being more liable to invasion, government should be near to protect it. It is the interest of the back country to have the Government near the sea, to inspect and encourage trade, by which their abundant produce will find an export. And lastly, he said, the contingency of the separation of the Western country was a reason for preferring the sea-coast.

He proceeded next to say, there will not be any contest where this centre of the sea-coast line is to be found: it falls between the rivers Potomac and Susquehanna. It will be found that there are good reasons why we should rather move east than south.

If the sea-coast line is to be preferred, it will follow that the back lands, west of the Ohio, which the gentleman from Virginia has so often taken into his calculations, will be excluded; they are not peopled; they do not affect the sea-coast line; and that line has already been voted to be the proper one by the committee. As it is true that the sea-coast has more wealth and more people than the inland country in proportion to the extent, it is equally true that the eastern half of the sea-coast has more of both than the southern. If we reckon Maryland, which will be as well accommodated by the Susquehanna as by the Potomac, we shall find the population of the eastern part nearly two millions, and that of the southern only one million, and the population of free inhabitants still less in favor of the latter.

But, sir, instead of seeking a centre geographically, we should consider the centre of common convenience. The place is the proper one where the greatest number of persons will be best accommodated. I will endeavor to show that that will be on the Susquehanna. Is the zeal of gentlemen, who oppose this design, influenced by their despair of removing the seat of Government afterwards? I believe the people of America will not complain of it. If fixed there, I think it will be found convenient and will remain there.

The Susquehanna is the centre of the common convenience. At this moment there are more wealth and more inhabitants east than south of it. But the future population of America is calculated, and it is pretended that the balance of population is receding from the East. Surely the present inhabitants may be allowed principally to consult their own convenience. West of the Ohio is an almost immeasurable wilderness; when it will be settled, or how it will be possible to govern it, is past calculation. Gentlemen will pardon me if I think it perfectly romantic to make this decision depend upon that circumstance. Probably it will be near a century before those people will be considerable; if we fix the national seat in the proper place now, it would give me no inquietude to know that a hundred years hence it may be liable to be removed; but, in fact, the principle which is assumed by the committee, and which I have attempted to justify, of taking the centre of the sea-coast line, will, even in the event of that vast tract being settled, furnish abundant reasons for its remaining on the Susquehanna. I will not recapitulate those reasons. We must take some principle to guide us; and though some inequalities will appear, yet let gentlemen remember, that in so vast a country great inconveniences will attend the communications of the people with Government, be the seat of it where it may; and by taking the centre of the sea-coast line there will be less than any other principle. It will be found best to accommodate the greatest number; or, in other words, to be the centre of common convenience: indeed, this is not denied to be true at this moment; but the case is said to be changing. On the one hand, I think it is Utopian to calculate upon the population of the United States a century hence; and, on the other hand, I admit that it is impolitic at least, perhaps unjust, to confine our attention to the present population; a quarter of a century may be a medium. Will gentlemen deny that trade and manufactures will accumulate people in the Eastern States, in proportion of five to three, compared with the Southern? The disproportion will, doubtless, continue to be much greater than I have calculated. It is actually greater at present; for the climate and negro slavery are acknowledged to be unfavorable to population: so that husbandry, as well as commerce and manufactures, will give more people in the Eastern than in the Southern States. The very circumstance that gentlemen found their reasonings upon is pretty strongly against their calculations. They tell us of the vast quantities of good land still unsettled in their States; that will produce a thin population; for the old lands will not be crowded, so long as new ones are to be had.

Mr. Carroll begged leave to give the Committee some information respecting the distance from tide-water to Fort Cumberland; from the tide-water to the Little Falls was three miles, to the Great Falls six more, from thence to the Seneca Falls was also six more, and from thence to Old Town one hundred and seventeen; which last place was fifteen miles from Fort Cumberland, making in all one hundred and forty-five miles, instead of two hundred, as stated by the gentleman.

Mr. Ames imagined his statement to be nearly right, and he found Mr. Jefferson stated in his Notes, that the Falls of the Potomac were fifteen miles in extent, and a navigation extremely difficult to be made.

Mr. Carroll said, it was not near that distance; in the fifteen miles there were three falls: the Seneca, the Great and Little Falls, but they occupy but a small part of the fifteen miles; he could certainly form some judgment of a place which he might say was almost at his door, and did not expect that Mr. Jefferson's Notes would have been adduced as an authority to contradict information he had given in his place. As to the difficulty of the navigation, he had to observe that many of the obstacles were already so far removed as to render the transportation down to the Great Falls practicable; that there the canal was nearly finished, and ready to sink the lock-seats and insert the frames, so that in a little time there was a probability that no impediment whatever would obstruct the descent of produce to the tide-water.

The question, on Mr. Lee's motion for striking out Susquehanna, and inserting Potomac, was put and lost; for it 21, against it 29.

Mr. Madison then moved, to add, after "Susquehanna" the words "or Potomac;" this would furnish an opportunity to examine and compare the two situations. It was so favorable to a discovery of the truth, that he did not doubt but gentlemen who were desirous of grounding their decision upon a full understanding of the subject would agree to the motion.

Mr. Boudinot seconded this motion, and supported it, by observing the necessity there appeared to be, of obtaining a more accurate knowledge of the two rivers, as gentlemen seemed to differ materially with respect to the matter of fact.

Mr. Sherman contended, upon the principles adopted yesterday by the committee, that they could not think of going to the Potomac; he said, that taking the population, even allowing the slaves in the Southern States, there was the greatest weight of population north-east of the Susquehanna; but upon the ratio of representation, at a member for forty thousand inhabitants, there were but one million two hundred thousand south of Pennsylvania, one million four hundred thousand north, including Pennsylvania; but if the calculation was made from the Potomac, the South would contain nine hundred and sixty thousand inhabitants, and the North one million six hundred and eighty thousand. Now, he would ask, if gentlemen could expect that the northern people would incline to go so far south? He apprehended they would not.

The question being taken on inserting "or Potomac," it passed in the negative.

On motion of Mr. Page, the committee rose and reported progress, and then the House adjourned.

Saturday, September 5.

Permanent Seat of Government.

The House then resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on establishing the permanent residence of Congress; when

Mr. Fitzsimons presented the following resolution:

Resolved, As the opinion of this committee, that the President of the United States be authorized to appoint —— commissioners, to examine, and report to him, the most eligible situation on the east bank of the Susquehanna, for the permanent seat of Government of the United States. That the said commissioners be authorized, by and with the advice of the President, to purchase such quantity of lands as may be thought necessary, and to erect thereon, within —— years, suitable buildings for the accommodation of the Congress, and of the officers of the United States. That the Secretary of the Treasury, together with the commissioners so to be appointed, be authorized to borrow a sum not exceeding —— dollars, to be paid in —— years, with interest, at the rate of —— per cent. per annum, payable out of the duties on impost and tonnage, to be applied to the purchase of the land, and the erection of the buildings aforesaid. And that a bill ought to pass, in the present session, in conformity with the aforegoing resolutions.

Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) doubted the propriety of the resolution, because he conceived the declaration in the constitution required a cession of territory as well as jurisdiction. If he was joined in this sentiment by the committee, he would move that the President be empowered to appoint commissioners to examine and report a proper place on the banks of the Susquehanna for a federal town, and that, whenever the State of Pennsylvania shall cede to the United States a certain district or territory, not exceeding ten miles square, Congress would accept thereof for the above purpose.

Mr. Lawrence would inquire for what purpose the cession, mentioned in the constitution, was required? It was, in the words of that instrument, to exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever; now, did this consequence involve in it a territorial possession? It certainly did not. It involved nothing more than the power of making laws independent of the State jurisdiction. The gentleman might have carried his idea further, for as the cession is to be made by particular States, it seems to infer that two States, at least, should be concerned in the cession; but would objections, from such forced constructions, have any weight in the judgment of the committee? He trusted they would not. He supposed it more rational to attend to the plain literal meaning of the constitution than to engage in the discussion of the refined speculations of ingenious men.

Mr. Vining observed, that Delaware, Maryland, and Virginia, had offered to cede territory, as well as jurisdiction, and there would be a great impropriety in expending the federal treasure, in purchasing the soil, when they might have it without expense.

Mr. Ames endeavored to show that such a cession, as was contemplated in the constitution, might be made by one State to another, without giving a property to a foot of land, by comparing it with the cession of Silesia to Prussia, where not a single acre of soil was conveyed, but of jurisdiction to the whole province; so, when territory changes its government, by being the sacrifice of a treaty of peace. He supposed that Congress were to purchase the soil necessary to erect buildings for the accommodation of the Government, and was satisfied the cession might be made subsequent to their election of a particular spot.

Mr. Seney.—The gentleman from Delaware has said, that Maryland proposed a cession of soil; but I believe, sir, there is not such a word as soil mentioned in the law.

Mr. Carroll agreed with his colleague, and supposed that a cession of soil could not have been contemplated, because the State of Maryland had offered any part of the State, not excepting the town of Baltimore. He believed if Congress were disposed to fix in that town, it would be agreeable to the State; but he did not imagine they would agree to give the General Government a property to the whole town, and the surrounding country. The other parts of the State had never contemplated making the inhabitants of Baltimore a compensation for such an immense property.

Mr. Goodhue believed, if the House had agreed to go to the Potomac, there would have been none of these constitutional difficulties stated. It was well known, he said, that the gentlemen from the eastward had no desire to take up the subject; but those from the southward were sanguine in their expectations that they should get the Government to the Potomac; and were, therefore, for pressing the business, and not allowing it to be postponed as was contended for on the other hand.

Mr. Madison said, the business was not brought on by their original motion, though they gave it their support. It was true, that a proposition for postponement was made, but what was the extent of that postponement? Till December or January next. Was there any reason to suppose that those gentlemen, who were, at this day, opposed to the Potomac, would give in to such a change of opinion by that time, as to induce us to agree to their proposition. We saw no reason to expect such a change. And, as in fact, we find a predetermined majority ready to dispose of us, the sooner we know our destiny the better; for it can be of little consequence, if we are to be disposed of, whether we are disposed of in September or December.

Mr. Wadsworth.—The reiteration of being disposed of by bargaining, induces me to rise and make one remark. It is a notorious fact to the members within these walls, that the New England members, to a man, were opposed to a decision at present; and that they were disposed to accommodate the Southern States. They refused all bargaining, till they were assured there was a bargaining set on foot to carry them to the Potomac; why, then, are we reproached with this? Whatever bargaining there has been, we were the last to come into it; we never thought of it, till we were told that we were a property, and should be disposed of, unless we took care of ourselves. I hope, as we have gone so far, we shall settle the subject in dispute, by granting the money and erecting the necessary buildings.

Mr. Jackson denied being concerned in any bargaining whatever, and defied any gentleman to say he knew any thing of one, till he heard it mentioned on this floor; he was determined to keep himself disengaged, and to vote according as his judgment should lead him, after hearing the subject coolly and thoroughly discussed.

Mr. Madison hoped, if he travelled a little out of order, he should be justified, after what had taken place; but he could not withhold this public declaration of his wish, that every thing that had passed on the subject alluded to by the gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr. Wadsworth,) were to be fully understood, and were reduced to writing. Every thing he knew of it he was willing, on his part, to put into that form; and he was well persuaded that it would be found, on examination, that the opposition of the Southern gentlemen was of a defensive nature, and that they had not listened to a proposition, until they had reason to think it necessary to prevent a sudden and improper decision of this very important question.

Mr. Smith, of South Carolina, begged gentlemen to remember, that all the Southern members had not been in favor of bringing forward the business at the present session; he had opposed it as well as some others.

Mr. Lee conceived it to be his duty to present once more the preamble, which had been rejected in committee. He flattered himself, after the discussion which had taken place, that gentlemen were prepared to decide on liberal and national principles, and therefore they would adopt those he presented.

Mr. Seney approved of the Susquehanna in preference to the Potomac, on every principle which had been brought into view, as proper to guide the House in deciding the present question. He treated the alarm which gentlemen apprehended would be given by fixing on the Susquehanna as merely ideal, and existing nowhere but in the imagination of gentlemen; so far from exciting jealousy, or disturbing the public mind, he contemplated it as tending to allay uneasiness, and to give general satisfaction.

On motion, the House now adjourned.

Monday, September 7.

Permanent seat of Government.

The House resumed the consideration of the resolutions reported by the Committee of the Whole for establishing the permanent residence of Congress.

Whereupon, the first resolution was agreed to, and the second, to wit:

Resolved, That the permanent seat of the Government of the United States ought to be at some convenient place on the east bank of the river Susquehanna, in the State of Pennsylvania; and that, until the necessary buildings be erected for the purpose, the seat of Government ought to continue at the city of New York,

Being under consideration,

Mr. Lee withdrew his proposition offered yesterday, and moved to amend the said resolution, by striking out the words "East Bank of the river Susquehanna, in the State of Pennsylvania," and inserting, in lieu thereof; the "North Bank of the river Potomac, in the State of Maryland."

And, on the question that the House do agree to the said amendment, the yeas and nays were demanded, and are

Ayes.—Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Brown, Burke, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sumter, Tucker and Vining—21.

Nays.—Messrs. Benson, Boudinot, Cadwalader, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Lawrence, Livermore, P. Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—29.

So it was determined in the negative.

Mr. Vining said, it now became his duty, after having sacrificed a prejudice, if he had one, by giving his vote for the Potomac, to bring before the House the humble claim of Delaware. He apprehended that her claim to centrality, as it respected wealth and population, was superior to that of the Susquehanna; and that, if a sea-coast line was to be a criterion, she was near the centre of territory. He supposed that this was the line upon which the Committee was to decide for the present. It was not supposed necessary, at this time, to take into consideration the vacant and extensive Western Territory, or why refuse the Potomac, which offered itself under the greatest advantages of an easy intercourse with that quarter? Add to the reasons he had mentioned, that the United States would consult their interest by fixing on the Delaware, as they would not incur the heavy expense of purchasing territory, and erecting magnificent palaces and hotels for the Government, and he thought gentlemen would not hesitate to agree with him.

The place he meant to offer was possessed of eminent superiority, as to salubrity of air and fertility of soil; it also united the advantages of the Atlantic and inland navigation; inasmuch as, by cutting a canal from the waters of the Chesapeake to the Delaware, a communication would be opened from Carolina, Virginia, and Maryland, to New Jersey, Pennsylvania and the midland counties of New York. The spot that he proposed for their acceptance was Wilmington in the State of Delaware; round which they might have a district for exclusive legislation, if it was thought proper to accept it. Under these impressions, he would frame his motions in such a way, as to enable Congress, when they did adjourn, to adjourn to meet at that borough. It was made in this form: To strike out the word "permanent," and all the remainder of the clause, after the words "ought to be at," and to insert in lieu of the last "the borough of Wilmington, in the State of Delaware."

On the question that the House do agree to the said amendment, the yeas and nays were demanded, and are

Ayes.—Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Boudinot, Burke, Cadwalader, Coles, Contee, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Sinnickson, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, and Vining—19.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Brown, Carroll, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, P. Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Stone, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—32.

Mr. Boudinot remarked that the peculiar situation in which he had been placed, by having the chair of the Committee, prevented him from giving his sentiments on the subject then; he therefore hoped to be indulged with stating the claim of the Delaware to the honor of the Federal City. When a question of such great magnitude, and which involved the interests of the Union, was to be decided, he thought he could be neither doing justice to the United States at large, nor his immediate constituents, were he to neglect to call their attention to what the former Congress had done in favor of the Delaware. He was surprised that gentlemen, who contended for the accommodation of their constituents, should be led so far astray from pursuing that object, as to pass far beyond the centre of wealth and population, as well as territory; or, if they did not pass the centre of territory, they went to a place, maugre all that had been said, devoid of those advantages which ought to attend the Federal residence. The want of communication with the Atlantic, the difficulty of navigating its waters, from the innumerable rocks, falls and shoals with which it abounds, which, from actual observation, he was induced to believe were insuperable obstructions to a connection with the Western waters, or, if they could be surmounted, it would be at such cost of money and labor, as the United States were not in a condition to expend, at a time when the widows and orphans were starving for want of the pittance due to them by the Government. The sterility of the soil, and the unhealthiness of a situation on the banks of a river which was subject to rise twenty feet and more, and overflow its banks, leaving behind vast quantities of stagnant water, whence proceeded noxious exhalations, the cause of a long catalogue of diseases, were altogether, in his mind, such objections to the place, that he could never imagine a majority of the House could consent to it. He further observed, that the Government would be secluded from the world, and the channels of information; there were few inhabitants, unless it was in the neighborhood of York or Lancaster.

But, beside all these considerations, there was this further, that there was an existing resolution of Congress for erecting the necessary buildings for their accommodation on the banks of the Delaware and Potomac, and an absolute grant of money for the purpose of defraying the expense. Now, as these had each of them strong pretensions, he was willing to have them considered and examined by commissioners sent on the ground. For the sake of accommodation, he would, therefore, move to amend the resolution, by striking out the words "east bank of the river Susquehanna, in the State of Pennsylvania," and inserting in lieu thereof the words "Potomac, Susquehanna, or Delaware."

On the question that the House do agree to the said amendment, it passed in the negative; the yeas and nays being required, are as follows:

Yeas.—Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Boudinot, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Parker, Page, Sinnickson, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sumter, Tucker and Vining—23.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, P. Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—28.

Mr. Boudinot then moved to amend the resolution by striking out the words "east bank of the river Susquehanna, in the State of Pennsylvania," and inserting in lieu thereof, the words, "banks of either side of the river Delaware, not more than eight miles above or below the lower falls of Delaware."

On this question, the yeas and nays were demanded, and are:

Yeas.—Messrs. Boudinot, Cadwalader, Gerry and Sinnickson—4.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Baldwin, Benson, Bland, Brown, Burke, Carroll, Clymer, Coles, Contee, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gilman, Griffin, Grout, Goodhue, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Jackson, Lawrence, Lee, Livermore, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Muhlenberg, Page, Parker, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sumter, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—46.

Mr. Stone then moved to amend the resolution, by striking out the words "east bank," and inserting in lieu thereof the word "banks;" and on the question, that the House do agree to the said amendment, the yeas and nays being demanded, were as follow:

Yeas.—Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Boudinot, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Seney, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sumter, Tucker, and Vining—26.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Sherman, Sylvester, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—25.

So it passed in the affirmative.

A motion was then made and seconded, further to amend the said resolution, by inserting, after the word "Pennsylvania," the words "or Maryland," and, on the question the House do agree to the said amendment, it passed in the negative; and the yeas and nays being demanded, were as follow:

Ayes.—Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Boudinot, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Sinnickson, Smith, (of M.) Smith, (of S. C.) Stone, Sumter, Tucker and Vining—25.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, P. Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—26.

Mr. Lee expected the question would be divided on the resolution, as it contained two distinct objects, the permanent and temporary residence.

Mr. Page suggested the propriety of striking out the latter part of the clause, relating to New York, and to confine the resolution merely to the avowed object, namely, the permanent residence.

The question was taken on striking out, and it passed in the negative, 24 for, 27 against it.

Mr. Vining then moved to strike out the words "City of New York," and insert, in lieu thereof, "Borough of Wilmington, in the State of Delaware;" and on the question to agree to the said amendment, the yeas and nays being demanded, were as follow:

Ayes.—Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Boudinot, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Sinnickson, Sumter and Vining—21.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—30.

So it passed in the negative.

Mr. Parker moved to strike out "New York" and insert "Philadelphia."

Mr. Lee said the city of New York possessed every convenience and accommodation; he was strongly impressed in favor of the inhabitants, their urbanity and industry did honor to America, and nothing could induce him to vote for striking out the words, but a sense of duty. He flattered himself that a regard would now be paid to the great principles of centrality, which Philadelphia possessed in a great degree; the conveniences and accommodations to be found in that city were equal, if not superior, to what New York presented; her public buildings and institutions were, he believed, at their command; the inhabitants were industrious, temperate, and frugal; in short, every principle which operated in favor of the Susquehanna, as a permanent residence, applied with equal or more force in favor of Philadelphia as the temporary seat of Government.

Mr. Sherman hoped the House were disposed to make as few removes as possible, and that as the buildings for their accommodation might be in readiness in two or three years at the permanent residence, they would be disposed to continue in New York till that time.

On the question, that the House do agree to the said amendment, the yeas and nays being demanded, are as follows:

Ayes.—Messrs. Baldwin, Boudinot, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Griffin, Heister, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Sinnickson, Stone, Sumter and Vining—22.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Bland, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gerry, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Lawrence, Livermore, P. Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Thatcher, Trumbull, Tucker, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—29.

The main question being put, the second resolution, as amended, was agreed to by the House, in the words following, to wit:

"Resolved, That the permanent seat of the Government of the United States ought to be at some convenient place on the banks of the river Susquehanna, in the State of Pennsylvania; and that, until the necessary buildings be erected for the purpose, the seat of Government ought to continue in the city of New York."

The third resolution, in the words following, to wit:

"Resolved, That the President of the United States be authorized to appoint three commissioners, to examine and report to him the most eligible situation on the banks of the Susquehanna, in the State of Pennsylvania, for the permanent seat of the Government of the United States; that the said Commissioners be authorized under the direction of the President, to purchase such quantity of land as may be thought necessary, and to erect thereon, within four years, suitable buildings for the accommodation of the Congress, and of the other officers of the United States; that the Secretary of the Treasury, together with the Commissioners so to be appointed, be authorized to borrow a sum, not exceeding one hundred thousand dollars, to be repaid within twenty years, with interest, not exceeding the rate of five per cent. per annum, out of the duties on impost and tonnage, to be applied to the purchase of the land, and the erection of buildings aforesaid; and that a bill ought to pass, in the present session, in conformity with the foregoing resolutions."

A motion was made by Mr. Gale, to amend the same, by inserting after the word "aforesaid" the following proviso, viz:

"Provided, nevertheless, that, previous to any such purchase, or erection of buildings as aforesaid, the Legislatures of the States of Pennsylvania and Maryland make such provision for removing all obstructions to the navigation of the said river, between the seat of the Federal Government and the mouth thereof, as may be satisfactory to the President of the United States."

The ayes and nays being demanded, it passed in the negative.

Ayes.—Messrs. Baldwin, Boudinot, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Seney, Sinnickson, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sumter, Tucker and Vining—24.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Sherman, Sylvester, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—25.

And then the main question being put, Do the House agree to the said third resolution, as reported by the Committee of the whole House?

The ayes and nays being demanded, it passed in the affirmative.

Ayes.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Stone, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—28.

Nays.—Messrs. Baldwin, Boudinot, Brown, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gerry, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Sinnickson, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, Tucker and Vining—21.

Ordered, That a bill or bills be brought in, pursuant to the foregoing resolutions, and that Messrs. Ames, Lawrence, and Clymer, do prepare and bring in the same.

Monday, September 21.

Seat of Government.

The House proceeded to consider the bill to establish the seat of Government of the United States, which lay on the table, with the amendments, as reported by the Committee of the whole House.

Mr. Smith proposed to confine the choice of a situation on the banks of the Susquehanna, between Checkiselungo creek and the mouth of the river. He was seconded by Mr. Seney.

Mr. Hartley hoped the committee would limit it as near the spot contemplated as possible.

Mr. Heister said, he moved, the other day, for a particular spot on the river, which he conceived entitled to a preference; if the proposed motion obtained, that place would be excluded, and he should hesitate respecting his vote upon the bill.

Mr. Seney by no means wished to embarrass the committee; if the motion proposed would, any how, have that effect, he should withdraw his second.

Mr. Madison felt himself compelled to move for striking out that part of the bill which provided that the temporary residence of Congress should continue at New York; as he conceived it irreconcilable with the spirit of the constitution. If it was not from viewing it in this light, he should have given the bill no further opposition; and now he did not mean to enter on the merits of the main question.

From the constitution, it appeared that the concurrence of the two Houses of Congress was sufficient to enable them to adjourn from one place to another; nay, the legal consent of the President was, in some degree, prescribed in the 7th section of article 1st, where it is declared, that every order, resolution, or vote, to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary, (except on a question of adjournment,) shall be presented to the President of the United States, and approved by him, before the same shall take effect. Any attempt, therefore, to adjourn by law, is a violation of that part of the constitution which gives the power, exclusively, to the two branches of the Legislature. If gentlemen saw it in the same light, he flattered himself they would reject that part of the bill; and, however little they valued the reflection that this city was not central, which had been so often urged, they would be guided by arguments springing from a superior source.

He would proceed to state the reasons which induced him to be of this opinion; it is declared in the constitution, that neither House, during the session of Congress, shall, without the consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting; from hence he inferred, that the two Houses, by a concurrence, could adjourn for more than three days, and to any other place which they thought proper; by the other clause he had mentioned, the Executive power is restrained from any interference with the Legislative on this subject; hence, he concluded, it would be dangerous to attempt to give to the President a power which the constitution expressly denied him.

Tuesday, September 22.

Seat of Government.

The engrossed bill to establish the seat of Government of the United States was read a third time; and the question was, Shall this bill pass?

Mr. Carroll said, he felt himself under peculiar circumstances on the decision of this important question. The House had determined that the permanent seat of the Government of the United States should be on the Susquehanna, in Pennsylvania, and not in Maryland on the Potomac. It was his opinion that the last would have been most conducive to the interest of the Union; the voice of the majority of this House is against it. The Susquehanna, said he, being the next object most likely to attain what I have laid down as the rule of my conduct on this occasion, and, at the same time, must be agreeable to the wishes of a great part of my constituents, I felt myself under an obligation to vote for the Susquehanna, upon obtaining the clause which made it obligatory upon the States of Maryland and Pennsylvania to concur in opening the navigation of that river; and nothing would restrain me from giving my assent to the bill, but that clause which requires the concurrence of the President respecting the seat of Government, until Congress meet at their permanent seat. To this clause I have strong constitutional objections; they were yesterday fully stated to this House by other gentlemen.

I have endeavored to remove this conviction from my mind, in order to give my assent to the bill; but as I am under the sacred obligation of an oath to support the constitution, as I cannot efface the conviction from my mind that it is contrary to the constitution, and as we could not succeed in striking out the clause, I feel myself under the disagreeable necessity of giving my dissent to the bill.

The yeas and nays, on passing the bill, being required by one-fifth of the members present, were as follow:

Yeas.—Messrs. Ames, Baldwin, Benson, Clymer, Contee, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gale, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Jackson, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Seney, Sherman, Sylvester, Smith, (of Maryland,) Stone, Thatcher, Trumbull, Wadsworth and Wynkoop—31.

Nays.—Messrs. Bland, Boudinot, Burke, Cadwalader, Carroll, Coles, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Parker, Schureman, Smith, (of South Carolina,) Sumter, Tucker, Vining, and White—17.

The bill having passed, was sent to the Senate for their concurrence.

Saturday, September 26.

Seat of Government.

A message from the Senate was received, informing the House that they had passed the bill for establishing the seat of Government of the United States, with an amendment, which the House immediately took into consideration. The amendment went to strike out all that related to the river Susquehanna, both as to fixing the seat of Government there, and removing the obstructions to the navigation; and to insert, in lieu thereof, "a district of ten miles square, bounded on the south by a line running parallel at one mile's distance from the city of Philadelphia, on the east side of the river of Delaware, and extending northerly and westerly, so as to include Germantown."

Mr. Bland thought the bill was so materially changed as to warrant the House to postpone its consideration. The principles upon which the Senate had proceeded, he believed, had not yet been discussed in the House, and the short time which now remained of the session forbade the attempt.

Mr. Page seconded this motion.

Mr. Smith (of South Carolina) hoped that gentlemen would agree to let the bill lie on the table, and not to be driven into a measure which they considered injurious to the public interest. He trusted they would not be influenced to adopt this bill, by the Senate's keeping the appropriation bill as a hostage for it, which he understood to be the case.

Mr. Fitzsimons was sorry to hear a thing of that kind insinuated against so respectable a body. He trusted the gentleman had been misinformed; but should be glad to know his authority.

Mr. Partridge declared that a knowledge of this fact would have considerable influence on his conduct; therefore, he was desirous of knowing to what an extent it was a certainty.

Mr. Bland would not charge the Senate with retaining the appropriation bill as a hostage; but he thought it of more importance than the bill they had now sent down, and wished it had been first acted upon.

Mr. Speaker informed the House that the appropriation bill was sent only yesterday to the Senate.

Mr. Stone did not suspect the Senate of the conduct which had been intimated; but, nevertheless, he was in favor of the postponement.

Mr. Lee remarked that the great principles which this House had adopted, on full debate, were now thrown out of view; they had nothing to do with the amendment which the Senate had made. He could not, after this circumstance, bring himself to believe that the House would agree to the alteration, without discussing the other principles upon which it must be founded. And here the approaching termination of the session, and the quantity of unfinished business, presented to the mind a strong objection; either it could not be done at all, or done to great disadvantage. Beside, if it is laid over to the next session, the voice of the people may be better understood on this important question; when that was fully and fairly expressed, he flattered himself with a harmonious determination, to which all parties would submit without a single murmur.

Mr. Sherman thought the amendment of the Senate founded in wisdom, and upon true principles; the House had now nothing else before them. Indeed, they had just been spending an hour or two upon a very uninteresting subject respecting printers; he therefore trusted they would proceed to consider the amendment fully, and come in a proper time to a decision upon it.

Mr. White considered the amendment of the Senate as totally changing the tenor of the bill, and therefore it was like introducing a new subject. Indeed, in all the long arguments which the question had drawn out, he believed this place had never been mentioned. The gentleman last up, said there was no business before the House at present: but he would ask, if a business had never yet been before them, whether a member would be permitted to bring it forward at this late hour. He might be told, that the act of the Senate carried greater weight in it than the motion of a member. But he would place against that weight, the weight of the vote of this House, which on a former day agreed to fix the seat of Government on the banks of the Susquehanna; so that the question may be supposed to stand on independent ground.

But there was a collateral observation he would make. If Germantown was the proper place for the permanent residence of Congress, it was so near Philadelphia as to prove that that city would be the proper place for the temporary residence, and of course they ought to move there immediately, and order the next session to be held there; but both these questions were of too much moment to be fixed by a hasty vote of the House.

Mr. Jackson had given his assent to the bill as it passed the House, after a fair opposition: he was satisfied his fellow-citizens would submit to what appeared to be the voice of their country; though they would have preferred the Potomac on account of its centrality and contiguity to the Western Territory, yet he acceded to the Susquehanna; but this was no reason he should vote for Germantown. Who are those that say to us, Germantown is the most proper spot that can be selected? They are the representatives of the State sovereignties; where the large and small States are equally represented, the voice of the majority of the people is lost in the inequality of the political branch of the Legislature. He could not but think an alteration in the sentiment of the House, on this ground, would excite serious alarm in the minds of the people; to avoid which consequence, he should agree to the postponement.

Mr. Gerry urged, as a reason for postponement, that North Carolina and Rhode Island were out of the Union at present; and that, as there was a flattering expectation that at least one of those States would adopt the constitution by the next session, it would be extremely desirable to have their voice in determining this great question.

Mr. Madison.—However different our sentiments, with respect to the place most proper for the seat of the Federal Government, I presume we shall all agree that a right decision is of great importance; and that a satisfactory decision is of equal moment to the happiness and tranquillity of the Union: that even the manner and circumstances under which such decision may take place, are worthy of serious consideration.

Now, sir, the amendment proposed by the Senate, not only deserves the name of a new bill, but it proceeds on principles different from those which served for the basis of the bill sent up to them from this House: hence I presume, sir, it is not only necessary to examine the merits of the proposition, but to enter into a full and minute investigation of those principles upon which it is founded: the proposition is new and in some degree opposed to what has heretofore prevailed: the public mind has not yet been called to the consideration of it; nay, I believe it never yet has been contemplated by the inhabitants of any one State: the eye of America should be indulged with an opportunity of viewing it before it be made their fixed abode. All the other places which have been mentioned as candidates for the seat of Government, on this occasion, have at different times, and in different forms, been held up to the public attention; two of them had not only employed the deliberation, but had obtained the favorable decision of the old Congress; now after all this, to take up and adopt in a moment, a rival place, never before contemplated, is risking an improper and a dissatisfactory decision.

Mr. Stone reminded the House of the majority there was in selecting the Susquehanna, which he conceived to be the second best spot in the United States; and how much greater that majority would have been than 31 to 17, if no other question had been involved in the bill: he could hardly suppose such a change of sentiment would take place without argument, as was necessary in order to get the Senate's amendment adopted, which, he understood, was carried by a small majority indeed.

Mr. White would just add one observation, which was respecting the enormous price of land in the vicinity of Philadelphia; and how imprudent it would be for Congress to subject themselves to an exorbitant demand of this nature, by fixing upon the precise spot where this Federal town should be.

The question was now taken on postponing the consideration of the amendment proposed by the Senate, until the next session; and the yeas and nays being called, are:

Yeas.—Messrs. Baldwin, Bland, Brown, Burke, Carroll, Coles, Contee, Gale, Gerry, Griffin, Jackson, Lee, Madison, Matthews, Moore, Page, Parker, Schureman, Seney, Smith, (of Maryland,) Smith, (of South Carolina,) Stone, Sumter, Tucker and White—25.

Nays.—Messrs. Ames, Benson, Boudinot, Cadwalader, Clymer, Fitzsimons, Floyd, Foster, Gilman, Goodhue, Grout, Hartley, Hathorn, Heister, Lawrence, Leonard, Livermore, Muhlenberg, Partridge, Van Rensselaer, Scott, Sherman, Sylvester, Sinnickson, Thatcher, Trumbull, Vining, Wadsworth, and Wynkoop—29.