REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877. (continued 9)
Reading edition
A. The Saturday morning we were out?
Q. By sending out deputies through the county, do you think he could have collected a posse, or not?
A. If all were of the same opinion as the people in town, I do not think he could have got a posse. It would have been pretty hard work.
Q. How was the feeling outside the city, so far as you know?
A. Outside I do not know. In the city, the feeling appeared to be with the strikers altogether.
Q. Here in the city?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you say all the citizens?
A. No; I do not say that; but those I had any conversation with—those men I tried to get to go up there.
Soloman Coulson, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am doing nothing. At the time of this riot I was a police officer. My occupation is a brick-maker.
Q. What office did you fill at the time of the trouble?
A. I was what is called a roundsman here in this city—walking pretty much all over. I wore no uniform. I traveled into different places in the city.
Q. Where were you on Thursday morning?
A. I was at home in bed.
Q. When did you first learn of the disturbance?
A. About one o'clock in the afternoon.
Q. What took place?
A. I went to Twenty-eighth street where the disturbance was, and found detective McGovern there in charge of a posse of men. A great many railroaders were standing around, not doing anything. Along about three-forty o'clock, they made up a freight train to go out called a double-header—two engines attached to the train. Orders were given by somebody, I don't know who, that four policemen should go on each one of those locomotives. I was, myself, on one locomotive. The engine I was on, a reporter got on. He asked me if there was any danger, and I told him I thought there was, and he got off. They pulled out this train, I guess, about ten or twelve feet, and I didn't see anybody going to stop it. I thought they could very easily have taken it out at that time. I saw a man get on the track and throw his hands up, and with that they stopped, and the engineers and firemen jumped off. The police then on the engines insisted on going ahead. I did, for myself. The last man I saw getting off was a fireman. I said what are you getting off for, and he said he had got to do it.
Q. Did they refuse to go on when you insisted?
A. That man—he was a fireman or an engineer—I cannot tell which—he was doing both.
Q. It was when that man threw himself in front of the train?
A. One man did it. I think he is in jail now. That evening we had this man McCall in the Twelfth ward station, and there was a rumor that the mob was going to attack the Twelfth ward station and rescue him. I went to that station, and took that man McCall and marched down, putting twenty policemen behind us. We passed through the crowd, and nothing was said, and got down a few squares when there happened to be a friend of mine sitting in a car, and he hallooed at me and said, "For God's sake get in the car." The street was blocked. The car was stopped at the corner of Twenty-fourth and Penn, and we got in with our prisoner. Some of the crowd caught up with us. I had a revolver. One fellow put up a revolver at my ear when I struck him over the face with mine. We still kept on going, and we took our prisoner to the Central station. I didn't get back again that night. I was there again on the 21st, Saturday, and about eleven o'clock that night—Saturday night—I saw this burning. I was on Smithfield street at the time, and met a great many men coming down with goods. The feeling was not good towards me on account of this man McCall. I met a couple of parties with rolls of cloth, and we arrested them, and by morning we had more than a hundred in there for carrying off stuff. On Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left—and before they did leave—we had that man in jail that I saw shooting into them with a breech-loading rifle. I went up to the round-house, and made a search there. I heard Chief Evans state that he saw whisky running into the cellar of the round-house. I don't know where there is a cellar to the round-house, but there is a cellar to the carpenter shop.
Q. Is the carpenter-shop not one part of the round-house?
A. The carpenter-shop is on the right, and there was a space of thirty or forty feet between them. The Philadelphia troops I saw leave the round-house. They came out and formed, and went off.
Q. How did they come out?
A. In a body, in regular marching order.
Q. Where was the crowd when they came out?
A. Very scarce.
Q. Where had the crowd gone to?
A. Dispersed and secreted themselves in buildings and every place. I went as far as Seventeenth street—the crowd had started, too—then the fire had not got that far. It was about the middle of the day. We stopped there, and during the time we were there undertook to prevent parties from breaking open the cars and setting them on fire, which we did succeed in stopping some. Afterwards I saw men dropping coal down below the track, and rolling barrels of oil down and setting them on fire. They were strangers to me. We couldn't get the force apparently together. If we had got them together at that time, a hundred men would have subdued the riot at that time, because it was apparently the work of boys. There were not as many men as boys, but the force had got scattered.
Q. What time did the troops come out of the round-house?
A. Near seven or eight o'clock.
Q. Not many of the crowd were there at that time?
A. No.
Q. Was any burning going on at that time?
A. I saw the first car fired to drive the Philadelphia troops out. It was a car on the Valley track. It was set on fire, and a wheel of it was chocked. They dropped other cars down against it, and they caught on fire, until it got pretty hot. But this carpenter-shop didn't take fire for some time. I helped to shove some cars away back from the entrance leading in between the round-house and the carpenter-shop. Those cars didn't catch on fire.
Q. They kept dropping those cars down all night?
A. Yes.
Q. Did they remain near the round-house?
A. They kept back towards Twenty-seventh street. They had a gun there. A man named Stewart I saw carried away from there dead. He was apparently a railroader. He had a watch with that name on it. I went to see the gun, and if they had ever fired it, it never would have hurt anybody in the round-house—if they had ever fired it. The wall is too high there.
Q. What was it that caused that crowd to be scattered? Was it fear of fire from the soldiers?
A. I reckon that was it.
Q. After the soldiers got away, did the crowd re-assemble?
A. No; not there.
Q. Were the burning cars below there?
A. Yes.
Q. They were still going on down with the burning and the pillaging?
A. Yes.
Q. They marched in regular order—the troops you saw?
A. In every good order.
Q. Suppose they had formed in line, at that time, and marched on the crowd what would have been the effect?
A. They would have got the best of the crowd because I didn't see many around there.
Q. Could they have driven the crowd away from the burning cars?
A. I think they could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. And restored order?
A. I don't know about that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who directed you to go out there first?
A. The mayor—to the best of my knowledge and belief.
Q. Did you have anybody with you?
A. No.
Q. Did you see the mayor before going?
A. I saw him that day before going.
Q. Where?
A. At the city hall, in his office.
Q. Were you on regular duty that day?
A. I was on other duty that day—I was on a little special duty that day, but was detailed and sent to where this trouble was supposed to be. I was to meet the men where I was going. About this Officer Motts. On Saturday night the mayor was in the Twelfth ward, and shortly after I went there I saw him there, and on Sunday morning. On Sunday he was on the railroad. I was standing alone, and he came to me and said to me, for God's sake get some men, you can stop them from breaking into these cars. I went towards the crowd, but there was no use for one man—but I did. They then commenced to hurl stones.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the crowd—boys?
A. Yes; and some men were among them. They were all getting pretty drunk then.
Q. You say the mayor was there attending to his duties?
A. Yes; using all the efforts he could to stop the riot; but we could not get the men together. Our force had been cut down, and it was impossible to get the men together. I asked men to stand alongside of me, but as soon as you would turn your head around again they were gone. In relation to Johnston and Bown's gun shops—I was at both places. At Johnston's, a demand was made for guns, and they gave them some muskets. I don't think that Johnston's was broke in.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They gave them?
A. That was what was said. I know I took a musket with a bayonet on from a fellow, and gave it back to the store. I was sent by the mayor's clerk to Bown's—some eight of us—but there were no uniformed men among us; we were in citizen's clothes. It was a hard matter to tell what they wanted; but eight of us went there at the time. Then this party came along Wood street, and they had a drum with them, and some of them had muskets with bayonets on, and others had revolvers, and others, what I took to be a large rammer, and they commenced ramming against the door. Officer Downey was one of the first officers to the store. I got in with him. They were then carrying out the stuff, and we took several guns from them and handed them back. They were still carrying out the stuff, and it was impossible to prevent them breaking in, because the force was not strong enough.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you armed?
A. No; no more than we usually carried—our pocket revolvers.
Q. Had you maces?
A. The men that were there were not in the habit of carrying maces. I suppose they had billies and revolvers. The proper course to save Bown's store would have been to let eight or nine men get in there and arm them, and then keep them out there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did this crowd seem to be bent on plunder?
A. Principally on plunder; I don't think that many of those guns taken out there ever went into the riot.
Q. Did they carry off pretty much everything?
A. Yes; according to the looks of the shelves and show cases. There were a couple of men arrested for stealing from that establishment, that are now doing terms in the western penitentiary.
By Mr. Englebert:
Q. Did you recognize them as any particular class of men?
A. I did not; their faces to me were apparently strange—they apparently looked like workingmen. A great many thieves were among them, and some, I know, have had to leave the city since, or we would have had them.
Q. You don't know where they were from?
A. Those I speak of?
Q. Yes?
A. I do; yes, from Pittsburgh.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. They have left the city entirely?
A. Yes.
Q. You were about the city a good deal attending to your duties, and you know a large part of the population?
A. I do.
Q. That crowd of men that went out there on Saturday and Sunday—was the crowd composed of men about the city?
A. No; they were pretty much all strangers; the biggest portion of them were strange men.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. In your duties as a roundsman, had you noticed any unusual influx of strangers into the town?
A. I had—a great many. We had a large crowd of them, I believe from Cumberland—in the neighborhood of twenty-five or thirty—that is, one batch, and I took notice of others.
Q. Sufficient to attract the attention of the police authorities?
A. It would have attracted my attention, and I have been following up that business for my living for eight or nine years.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When did these men come into the city first?
A. The first I noticed of them was on Saturday night, when I got into the Twelfth ward. To show you that there were a great many people that didn't belong in the city, I arrested some nine or ten up there that night, and among that nine or ten, eight of them belonged to Allegheny, and their faces were all strange to me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. This party from Cumberland—when did they come?
A. I can't remember.
Q. After or before the fire?
A. I can't be positive which.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. You said there was no cellar under this round-house?
A. There was no cellar, but I found a turn-table in the middle of it.
Q. How deep is a round-house generally dug out—from the top of the rails down?
A. It is on a level, but it has got to be so deep for the turn-table.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The carpenter shop was connected with it?
A. Yes.
Q. And the superintendent's office and car shops?
A. Yes.
Q. Didn't they all have cellars under them?
A. The office might have had a cellar—I know the office had.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When you went out there on Thursday afternoon, what class of men were there?
A. Principally railroaders.
Q. How many were there?
A. One hundred and fifty, or more than that. I knew a great many of them.
Q. Could the trains have been run out that afternoon, if the engineers and firemen had gone?
A. Yes; they could have taken this train out I was on—I don't know how far, though. They had four policemen on each engine to protect the engineers and firemen, and from what I understood, there were men to be put along on the train to protect the brakemen.
Q. You were out again on Friday?
A. No; not until Saturday. I remained there until Sunday morning, about eight o'clock.
Q. How large a posse could you have raised in the city to go out there and restore order, if the mayor had made a call, or a demand for a posse?
A. It would have depended on how much time you would have given me.
Q. In a day?
A. I might have got in the neighborhood of one hundred men. There were but one hundred and twenty men, and some of them were there.
Q. But from any class of men in the city—if he had just called for a posse from any source—for extra men?
A. He could not have got many at that time. Wherever I went, to judge from the talk, the people were all in sympathy with the mob.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Do you mean the tax-payers?
A. I suppose so.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. But the mayor made no call, so far as you know, for a posse?
A. I saw him trying to get men together on different occasions.
Q. But he made no official demand?
A. Not that I know of.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. He made no effort to increase his police force by swearing in extra men?
A. I believe he did as quick as he could do it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. When did he do it?
A. In a couple or three days—may be two days.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. After the riot?
A. Shorty after the riot. I think he did it as quickly as he could get the men together. I think he tried all he could to prevent this riot, which he don't get the credit for here. He ordered me on Sunday morning to go to the fire department, about one o'clock, and I went in search of the chief, in company with another officer, Motts. He did the talking. I didn't talk to him myself. We went to look for the chief, and could not find him. We went down to Twenty-first street and Penn street, and we saw a foreman there—I believe, in fact, several of the fire department were there, and we requested them to come and play on the fire, that the mayor had sufficient force, and that he would protect them, and the answer I don't remember, but I know they didn't come up and play on the fire. They were not going to run the danger.
Q. What firemen did you see?
A. Motts can tell you. Several were standing there.
Q. What ones were standing there?
A. Different ones. A man named Kennedy was there, and one named Miller.
Q. Do you know where those two men are now?
A. I suppose they are still on the fire department. The mayor at that time had dispatched from the Twelfth ward station for police, and had got, I guess, sixty or may be more. I know that many, for I knew the lieutenant that came up.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Were the round-house and those shops very hot when you went in?
A. No; No cars were burning there yet.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Was the fire department near there—some of them?
A. Yes; close up.
Q. If they had played on the burning cars could they have prevented those buildings from getting on fire?
A. I think they could have prevented it.
Q. Were you ready to give protection then?
A. The mayor was there, and his force, and those were the orders.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. When you went inside of the round-house were the doors still intact.
A. They were. I could not see any fire about them.
Q. How many engines were in there at that time?
A. I can't be certain. A number were in there at that time—a great many. They were shoved in the stalls. There would, apparently, be one in each.
Q. You think you examined those doors, do you?
A. I was close to the doors, and if there had been any fire—in case of a fire I would have seen it.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Was the upper round-house burning then?
A. I believe it was pretty much burned at that time.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where did the troops come out of the round-house?
A. I saw a portion of them come out of the entrance on Twenty-sixth street, and I think a portion of them came out of the rear end of the carpenter shop. I saw some twenty-five or thirty come out.
Thomas Hastings, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your business?
A. I not doing anything at present.
Q. What were you doing in July last?
A. I was a police officer.
Q. What connection had you with the efforts to suppress the riot?
A. I did everything, so far as I could, at that time. I didn't know much about it until Saturday evening. Our time for going on duty was eight o'clock in the evening. I went on at seven o'clock, and had orders from the lieutenant to go down and notify each tavern-keeper to close his saloon, at the request of the mayor. I did so, and we were distributed in the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street. There was a large crowd at Twenty-eighth street and Twenty-sixth street, and the crowd increased up to eleven o'clock.
Q. What time did you receive orders to close the saloons?
A. About seven o'clock in the evening.
Q. In the vicinity of Twenty-eighth street?
A. All along Penn street. I went up about eleven o'clock, and stayed looking around for a while at Twenty-eighth street, and then came down as far as Twenty-sixth street, and went back again, and just as I got at the corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn streets I saw the fire, and I ran up Liberty street and saw a car of oil. I then ran down and pulled the alarm, and just as I pulled the alarm I was thrown out in the street. Just then the mayor passed me, and asked me what the car was, and I told him it was a car of oil. He asked me if I pulled the alarm, and I said yes. I didn't see any engine coming. I went down then to the Twelfth ward station-house, and I asked the captain if he had pulled the alarm, and he said he had tried to, but couldn't. I then went down a little piece, and saw an engine and the Independence hose carriage standing at Twenty-fourth or Twenty-fifth street. Somebody made a remark that they would not let them come up any further—that they had threatened to shoot them. I stayed around there all that night, and on Sunday morning, after the Philadelphia troops left——
Q. Did you see the Philadelphia troops come out of the round-house?
A. I saw what they called the Philadelphia troops.
Q. Where did they come out?
A. They were in this round-house and in the carpenter shop. They appeared to come out of the west end of the carpenter shop.
Q. On to what street?
A. On to Liberty, and then down Twenty-fifth street to Penn. Some were deployed as skirmishers, at the head of the column. They appeared to be pretty well frightened.
Q. Were they marching in good order?
A. Yes; but they appeared to be pretty well scared.
Q. They marched regularly, did they?
A. Yes.
Q. Was any attack made on them?
A. Not to my knowledge—so far as I saw. I only stayed a few minutes, and went over into the round-house and carpenter shop. I went into, I believe, where D. O. Shater had his office, on the east end of the round-house. I went in there, and went in through the round-house into the carpenter shop.
Q. Were you on duty during the week prior to the riot?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you learn of any arrangement among the men for the strike?
A. I knew nothing of it until I got out of bed on Thursday, that was the first I heard of it.
Q. What time did you get up?
A. I generally got up about four or five o'clock.
Q. What did you learn then?
A. I learned that there was a strike, or that there was going to be a strike.
Q. Who informed you?
A. I don't remember. Some railroad man.
Q. What did he say about it?
A. That there had been a strike, or was going to be a strike.
Q. You knew of no pre-arranged plan for a strike?
A. No.
Q. Had you noticed any influx of strangers into the city prior to that time?
A. I had noticed a great many.
Q. What class of men?
A. They appeared to be tramps—fellows hunting for work, but who didn't want it.
Q. Any more than there had been previously?
A. Yes; that week there had been a great many traveling back and forward on the streets.
Q. A great many all the time are traveling, are they not?
A. Not as many as that week, I don't think.
Q. Did you have any conversation with those tramps?
A. No.
Q. What do you do with the tramps who come into the city here?
A. We don't do anything at present.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What was the first day you noticed more tramps than usual?
A. It appeared to be the beginning of the week of the riot—for six or eight days previous.
Q. You noticed it before the strike commenced?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You did not do anything with those tramps who gathered and collected?
A. We had not for some time.
Q. You allowed them to come in and go away when they choose?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Where had you noticed this extra influx of tramps?
A. I had noticed it on Penn street, particularly. A great many were going in and out. They would ask me where there was a place to stay over night, or if they could stay at the station-house, and I always directed them to the Young Men's Home.
Q. Did they come there in larger numbers than usual—that is, in larger crowds than six or eight or ten?
A. Sometimes I would see one or two, and then six, and they increased to as high as eight in a party.
Q. In a party?
A. In a bunch.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. How soon were you up to the round-house after the troops vacated it?
A. In eight or ten minutes.
Q. Did you go through the round-house or the shops?
A. Yes.
Q. Were any of those buildings on fire?
A. The machine shop was on fire—thirty or forty feet on the east side—that is, sixty feet from the east end of the round-house.
Q. Do you know anything about any oil cars that were dropped down on the Pennsylvania railroad towards the round-house?
A. I know that oil cars were dropped down there.
Q. At what time?
A. They were afire when I saw them. I don't know how close to the round-house they went.
Q. How were they stopped?
A. I think they were bumped against other cars.
Q. You don't know of any obstructions placed on the tracks that prevented them from running clear to the round house?
A. No.
Q. Was there much heat in the round-house when you got there, soon after the troops left?
A. The machine shop was on fire. How long it had been burning before, I cannot say. It was burning when I went into D. O. Shafer's office.
Q. Had any of the troops been in this machine shop?
A. I can't say; some had been shooting out of the bell tower that night.
Q. Of the machine shop?
A. Yes, sir; the round-house was not on fire, nor the carpenter shop.
Q. What has been your avocation for the last eight or ten years?
A. I have been a railroad man up to within three years.
Q. Have you ever been a conductor on passenger trains?
A. No.
Q. On freight trains?
A. I have been a conductor on freight.
Q. Had you any conversation with freight conductors up to the time of the riot, or before that time in relation to any contemplated strike?
A. No.
Q. Or with any men belonging to the Trainmen's Union?
A. No; I never took any stock in that union.
Q. Did you see the troops retiring from the round-house?
A. Not until they came up on Penn street.
Q. Did you see them fired at?
A. Not on Penn street. I saw a man who is in jail now, firing from the corner of Twenty-sixth and Penn streets.
Q. At the troops?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see any whisky running into any of those buildings on fire?
A. I saw two cars of high wines on fire. They had stopped them in front of the superintendent's office, and they were throwing water out of the windows to put the fire out. When I went up there I saw it was high wines.
Q. Could that have run into the cellar of the buildings or the superintendent's office?
A. It would have taken a good bit, for the stone sill was eight or ten inches from the ground, and it would take a great deal to run in there, though a barrel might have rolled in through the window.
Q. Where is the battery room under the superintendent's office?
A. It is in the west corner of the building—in the cellar.
Q. Is it below the grade of the Allegheny Valley track?
A. I am not sure. Yes; it is below, the bottom part of it, but along the window sill, I think, it is five or six inches, may be more.
Q. It is below the grade of the railroad track?
A. The inside of it is, but the outside is about six or eight inches above the ground. I would have to send up to be sure about it.
William Coats, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you connected with the fire department of the city of Pittsburgh last July?
A. I am one of the fire commissioners of the city of Pittsburgh.
Q. State the organization of that department last July?
A. We had eleven steam fire engine companies and two hose companies and three trucks in the city of Pittsburgh last July, and an average of about seven men to a company. But we didn't have a full force on. Our appropriations ran short, and we were compelled to put off some twenty-two men just previous to the riot.
Q. How many men had you at that time?
A. One hundred and four, telegraph operators and all—a working force of about ninety-eight men.
Q. They are a paid force, are they?
A. Yes.
Q. State what aid they rendered in putting out the fire?
A. The first alarm, the night of the riot, occurred on the 21st of July, I think—I am not positive—and was sent in about fifteen minutes after ten o'clock. I was then at engine house No. 7, on Penn avenue, near the corner of Twenty-third street. There were three companies that answered that alarm, and one hose company and one truck. The department was stopped on the street, between Twenty-third and Twenty-eighth street. The crowd caught the horses of No. 7 engine, and drew the fire out of the engine, and made the men pull into the sidewalk. The department did no service on Saturday night, but they went into service when the Philadelphia troops vacated the round-house, on Sunday morning at seven o'clock. Our men went there then; and, if you will allow me, I will tell you why they did not go into service before.
Q. We want to know it?
A. The people would not allow them to.
Q. That is the mob?
A. Yes; but we considered them in service from the time the alarm struck, though they didn't throw any water. We couldn't get to the round-house building, or to where the fire started, because the mob stopped us. They made the assistant chief engineer get out of his buggy. I sent off the second signal myself from No. 7 engine house when they commenced to fire cars down about Twentieth street. In the meantime, an alarm came in from East Liberty, and we thought it was the cattle yards there. From the corner of Twenty-second and Liberty streets, we laid a line of hose, but they commenced to cut it as soon as we laid it, and they made us take it up again. A fellow put a pistol to my ear and said, take that up.
Q. Did you know the fellow who did that?
A. No. I have not seen him since. We reeled the hose up. There was no use in getting it out. We could only get into service when the Philadelphia troops came out of the round-house on Sunday morning.
Q. What kind of service did you render during the day?
A. We saved this town from burning down. I don't suppose that ever a body of men worked harder than the Pittsburgh fire department. We did not have a man who was not at his post from ten o'clock on Saturday night until eight o'clock on Monday morning. It was the only body of men in Pittsburgh organized.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They were ready to do their duty?
A. They did their duty.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You say they saved the city? How?
A. In the first place, when we went into service, opposite the round-house or the machine-shops, there were a lot of frames or tenement houses that were on fire. Well, we put out this fire, and we kept on following the fire down Liberty street, and kept the buildings wetted down. The fire was very intense—very hot, and it was a continual fight with fire all the way down Liberty street.
Q. The crowd of rioters and pillagers were ahead of you?
A. Sometimes they were ahead, and sometimes along with us; sometimes the rioters kept ahead of the fire, and sometimes they were among us.
Q. They didn't break open the cars and pillage them until the fire started along?
A. There were places on Liberty street where no man could have stood, even to wet the houses down, and where they couldn't have pillaged, because it was too hot, and occasionally along Liberty street there were a lot of coal dumps and some oil bins, and where that occurred the heat was very intense. We had to keep things wetted all the time. Along there the pillagers would sometimes be very plenty.
Q. I suppose all the private property burned caught from the heat of the railroad cars?
A. Yes; the only private property that was burned was on Washington street.
Q. Did those houses catch fire, or were they set on fire?
A. They caught from the Union depot.
Q. You saved the private property here by wetting down the buildings?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive any protection from the police force?
A. No; we did not.
Q. At any time?
A. No; not to my knowledge.
Q. You were with the department?
A. I was.
Q. At any time did you receive any protection from the police?
A. No.
Q. If you had been protected by the police, could you have cut the fire and stopped it?
A. We could, at any place.
Q. How many men would it have taken to protect you?
A. I think twenty-five or fifty men, at the outside, could have stopped that burning on Sunday morning. I say that, because there could have been no mistakes. Because, if they had shot some of them down, they could not have made any mistakes. They had no business there.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you see the mayor there during the day?
A. I saw the mayor there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was the mayor making any effort to keep back the crowd?
A. I did not see any force of policemen that day, but the mayor appeared to be moving up and down Liberty street. I saw him talking to the rioters.
By Mr. Means:
Q. After the Philadelphia troops left the round-house, how long was it before it was on fire?
A. It was, I think, on fire when they left, because we went up there right away.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say that the round-house was on fire, but we have evidence that it was not?
A. The offices that stood between were certainly on fire, because I worked that stream myself, and the heat got so intense at one time, that we had to move the engine away. The round-house could not help being on fire, for that oil sent down would have put anything on fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the troops come out?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were the burning cars around there?
A. They had been sending down the burning cars sometime before.
Q. Then it was afire when they came out?
A. As soon as the troops came out, the chief engineer ordered some apparatus there, and we went there at once. There was almost an entire square on Liberty street, all lumber yards and frame shanties, on fire. And this machine shop was on fire. I am not positive about the two round-houses at that time. I was working there myself.
Q. How many men, do you judge, were engaged in this burning?
A. I cannot tell you that—a great many.
Q. Actively engaged—that is, I want to distinguish between the persons standing around in crowds on the pavements looking on, and the parties actively engaged in the burning?
A. When I was down on Liberty street, there appeared to be a great many people on the railroad track. Of course, they were pillaging then—it was plain—any person could see it. Every now and then you could see the flames bursting out from the cars.
Q. Did you see this crowd—was it an organized effort to follow up the burning—did it seem to be followed systematically?
A. Yes; I think it was organized.
Q. Can you form any idea as to how many were actively engaged?
A. I cannot. I was not on the railroad track that day. Men and women and everything else were on the railroad track.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Behind the fire?
A. Yes; but they kept in front, too.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They were pillaging and carrying the things away?
A. Yes; I got down to Eleventh street, and went to the Pan-Handle railroad yard, and they were breaking the cars open and setting the things on fire. I said to them, don't do it, or you will set the city on fire, and they said they did not care a damn if they did.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you know those men?
A. No; I never saw them before or since. On Saturday evening I was sitting in front of the engine house, and some men came up in front and said, "If there is a fire to-night, I suppose you will turn out." I said, "Certainly," when he said, "If you turn out there will be trouble. We will cut your hose and smash your apparatus."
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did he talk as if he came to warn you for that purpose?
A. Yes; he talked as if he came for the purpose of letting us know that. There was a great deal of feeling that night.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have none of your engines in service before the troops left?
A. No.
Q. You played on neither private property nor railroad property?
A. No.
Q. Were the crowd generally disorderly?
A. Yes.
Q. Making threats?
A. O, yes; that they would kill the firemen, and one thing and another?
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Did you see a proclamation or any official document of the mayor of the city of Pittsburgh ordering the rum shops and drinking saloons to be closed on Saturday or Sunday?
A. I do not know of seeing it. If a proclamation was issued on Saturday, I was not in the city on Saturday afternoon.
Q. Or any proclamation ordering the crowd to disperse?
A. I did not.
Q. No proclamation calling for a police force?
A. No.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see the shooting on Saturday night?
A. No; what occurred in the evening I didn't see. I was up there in the morning, but out of the city in the afternoon.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. If a determined effort had been made on Thursday by the mayor with the police force that he had at hand, could he have dispersed the crowd?
A. I do not know of any reason why he should not.
Q. On Friday, do you think so?
A. Yes.
Q. Could he on Saturday, up until the time of the arrival of the militia?
A. It could not have been done on Saturday morning, because the mill men had all commenced to gather.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you think he could have quelled the trouble without calling on the militia—that the police force could have suppressed the riot?
A. That is something I do not pretend to answer. The militia were called out a day or two previous to that. But I think this, that it was unfortunate for this shooting to have occurred in Pittsburgh. My sympathies were with the strikers, but not up to the point of rioting.
Q. You say you thought on Saturday morning the crowd could not have been dispersed without the militia?
A. No.
Q. By the police force?
A. No.
Q. Could the mayor or the sheriff have raised a posse, either in the city or in the county, including both, sufficient to have dispersed the crowd?
A. I think that the mayor of any city of the size of the city of Pittsburgh ought to be able, with his police force, to break up any assemblage of men.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. After the sheriff called upon the Governor for troops, didn't that intensify the feeling in Pittsburgh?
A. It did. I do not think that there was any necessity for that, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State what efforts were made to start trains that day?
A. On Friday afternoon no effort was made. The passenger trains came in on Saturday morning. The troops were mixed with the crowd, and no effort was made to start trains, I went to Allegheny City, and learned of the shooting while coming across the river. I happened to be away when the fun commenced.
At this point the committee adjourned to meet to-morrow morning, at ten o'clock.
MORNING SESSION.
Orphans' Court Room, Pittsburgh, Wednesday, February 13, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee assembled at ten o'clock A.M., this day, and continued taking of testimony.
The first witness examined was:
Henry Coates, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you a member of the fire department last July?
A. No; I was a member of the police force.
Q. What position did you hold?
A. I was a lieutenant.
Q. How many men did you have control of?
A. I had forty men that night of Saturday.
Q. Where were you on Thursday?
A. Sleeping. We had no day force in the city at that time.
Q. Were you not around during the day, Thursday?
A. No.
Q. Where were you on Friday?
A. In bed.
Q. During the night of Thursday, where were you?
A. On duty from Eleventh street to Thirty-third street.
Q. Taking in Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there any disturbance—any overt act?
A. No; but there was a collection of people. Sometimes there would not be over thirty or forty.
Q. What class of people?
A. Railroaders, particularly.
Q. What was the conduct of the people?
A. They were quiet. There was no trouble at all.
Q. Did they remain there?
A. They would pass up and down, talking among themselves.
Q. Hid you have any conversation with them?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask them why they were there?
A. No; it was not an infrequent occurrence to see men there. It is a principal street to go up to go to work.
Q. On Friday night how large was the crowd?
A. One hundred or so.
Q. Were they railroad men on Friday night?
A. Yes; principally. They appeared to be very quiet talking among themselves.
Q. What were they saying?
A. That they did not let me hear.
Q. Did you report to the chief of police or the mayor?
A. I made a report every morning.
Q. You reported that crowd to him?
A. Yes.
Q. But received no orders?
A. No; no orders to disperse them or anything else.
Q. Were the saloons open in that part of the city during Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Were they closed at all?
A. I ordered them to close on Saturday evening.
Q. At what time?
A. About eight o'clock.
Q. During Saturday night, describe what took place?
A. I do not know that I can.
Q. You were not on duty during the firing?
A. No; that took place before we went on duty.
Q. How large was the crowd?
A. They began to come—three or four hundred—or two hundred—squads coming from different places all during Saturday night and Sunday morning. Nearly everybody in the city was in that neighborhood—or the biggest part of them.
Q. What time did the burning commence?
A. In the neighborhood of ten and half or a quarter to eleven o'clock. A crowd had congregated around the fire-alarm box, and would not let the men pull it.
Q. Where did the fire break out first?
A. I was about Twenty-eighth street when it broke out. I should judge between Thirty-first and Thirty-second street on the railroad.
Q. What was set on fire?
A. Oil, from the appearance of the smoke.
Q. What did they do with the cars after they set them on fire?
A. They cut them loose and ran them.
Q. How many men were engaged in that?
A. I cannot say that at all.
Q. Were you near the round-house during the night?
A. Yes; with the mayor of the city. I went to Twenty-seventh street, and passed the round-house, and tried to get in a place where it was reported a lady was shot—opposite the round-house. That was after the firing had taken place—about eleven o'clock.
Q. Did you succeed in getting in?
A. No; it was in a small saloon, and I had notified them in the early part of the evening to close, and for that reason they would not let us in.
Q. Were you there on Sunday morning?
A. Yes; until after the troops left.
Q. Did you see them march out?
A. Yes.
Q. Where did they come out?
A. On Twenty-sixth street—out of the gate.
Q. Did they march in good order?
A. Yes.
Q. Were they fired upon?
A. Not in our neighborhood.
Q. By the crowd?
A. No.
Q. How large a crowd was there or around there when they marched out?
A. I saw one citizen.
Q. Did you know him?
A. Yes.
Q. Who was he?
A. Captain —— McMunn. There had been quite a crowd before they filed on to Penn street, but they all broke.
Q. They broke when they saw the troops?
A. Yes; the cry was raised when they came out that they were going down to the Union depot, and the mob undertook to get down and cut them off.
Q. The mob broke and ran towards the river?
A. Any place where they could run away.
Q. You mean to say that the mob ran from the military, when they came out?
A. They did.
Q. How long was it before the mob re-assembled?
A. I did not see them re-assemble.
Q. Were you there during the day?
A. Shortly after that I had to come to the central station and take charge of the prisoners we had arrested.
Q. How many prisoners did you have arrested up there?
A. I cannot say the number.
Q. Can you give us an estimate?
A. About seventy-five, I suppose.
Q. What were they arrested for?
A. For having goods in their possession—cloth, and everything they could get hold of.
Q. Did you take them before the mayor?
A. Before Acting-Mayor Butler.
Q. What did he do with them?
A. Some of them were dismissed, and some were sent to jail, and some were fined.
Q. Some were dismissed?
A. Yes.
Q. Why?
A. That I cannot tell you.
Q. Was there no evidence against them?
A. Evidence of having goods in their possession, certainly. We arrested some of them with guns.
Q. Muskets?
A. Yes, and shot guns.
Q. Were any of those dismissed?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. About how many of those were dismissed?
A. That I cannot tell you.
Q. What time did you return to the scene of the riot?
A. After getting through with the prisoners, I was then ordered by the mayor to report to the chief engineer of the fire department for duty.
Q. What did you do?
A. I did all I could. Being an engineer by trade, I took spells at running an engine and worked with them after the neighborhood of seven o'clock that evening.
Q. Were you interfered with by the mob?
A. I was not.
Q. Whereabouts did you work?
A. Generally at the engine.
Q. At what points?
A. Twenty-fifth and Twenty-sixth, and Seventeenth and Sixteenth streets. And from there I went with the fuel wagon.
Q. Did you receive any assistance from the police?
A. They were there, and doing all they could, but the police was small at that time.
Q. Were you at the Union depot when it was set on fire?
A. No.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Those goods—what became of them?
A. They were turned over to the commissioners, I understood.
Q. They were goods taken out the cars?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Why were those prisoners taken before Deputy Mayor Butler?
A. I cannot answer that question.
Q. Where did he sit?
A. In the central station, where we usually held the mayor's court.
Q. The mayor's office?
A. It is the central station-house.
Q. Where the mayor holds his court?
A. Yes.
Q. Where was Mayor McCarthy at that time?
A. I cannot tell you that.
Q. You say the police gave the fire department assistance and protection?
A. I say they assisted, so far as I saw.
William J. Kennedy, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Foreman of engine company No. 3.
Q. Did you occupy that position last July?
A. Yes.
Q. State what part you took in putting out the fire that occurred on the night of the 21st—Saturday night?
A. It was eleven o'clock and twenty minutes when the alarm came first. We started out the house, but we were stopped at the grain elevator. But we got through that crowd, and got on to Penn street, when they began firing at us or at our horses.
Q. How many shots were fired?
A. I cannot tell that. It was just firing here and there along the street.
Q. With pistols and guns?
A. With all kinds of arms.
Q. How long was that kept up?
A. All night until daylight.
Q. Go on and tell us what occurred?
A. We turned on to Liberty street, and at Twenty-first and Liberty they hit me with something, and surrounded the horses. Then we turned on to Penn again, but they wouldn't let us move, so we went towards the river and tried to go down to get up further, but they were waiting there. They had some old muskets and carbines and other things, and if we just moved the horses they would come. We changed to different places from one block to another, but they wouldn't let us lay a line, and wouldn't let us throw any water except private property was in danger. We didn't throw any water until after the troops went out of the round-house in the morning.
Q. Were you present when they went out of the round-house?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you at the round-house after they left?
A. Yes.
Q. Was it on fire?
A. Yes. They had to come out. The fire got under them.
Q. Under what part of the round-house?
A. I don't know what part of it, but they set it on fire from Liberty street. They had a hose there, and were throwing water all night. They ran the cars down and tried to set it on fire, but it was all right until the fire got under them.
Q. You say the troops had hose, and kept the fire out until it got under them and drove them out?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know of any oil that was run under them?
A. I don't know that. All I know is, that some liquor was there burning.
Q. How soon did you get to the round-house, after the troops left?
A. As soon as we could.
Q. How extensive was the fire then in the round-house?
A. It was big, and there were lumber yards across the street all afire.
Q. Was the carpenter shop on fire?
A. I don't know whether the carpenter shop was or not.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were any buildings attached to the round-house on fire, or buildings near it?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How large was the crowd when the troops came out?
A. I don't know how large.
Q. What did the crowd do when the troops marched out?
A. They were taking a walk—nobody interfered with the troops. Everybody tried to get out of their road.
Q. And get away?
A. Yes.
Q. In what direction did the crowd go?
A. I don't know.
Q. The crowd didn't attempt to attack the troops?
A. No.
Q. During the day—Sunday and Sunday night—were you interfered with by the crowd in throwing water?
A. Yes—frequently.
Q. To what extent?
A. Different parties kept coming constantly, so that we couldn't do anything. They said: "Don't you throw any water on the railroad property, or we will blow the heads off of you." It was not just one man, but they kept reminding you of it all the time.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. They allowed you to play on private property?
A. Yes; I turned a stream on the cars at Union depot, when I suppose twenty revolvers were shot at me.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you call on the police force for protection?
A. I would have had to call a good while before I would have got any. I didn't see many of them.
Q. Did they offer any protection to you?
A. Not to me, they didn't.
Q. Did Officer Daniel Motts speak to you at any time, offering to protect you?
A. He spoke to me several times during the night, but never offered me any protection. There was no occasion to offer me any, as both the chiefs were there.
Q. And he didn't offer you any protection?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did he give you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did he tell you, if you would commence playing on a certain point, that the police would protect you?
A. He didn't.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did any police officer?
A. No.
By Mr. Means:
Q. In your examination, you have stated that you went to the round-house as soon as you could, after the troops left?
A. Yes; and went into service.
Q. How long was it after the troops left until you got playing upon the fire at the round-house?
A. I cannot tell you exactly, but it was very quick?
Q. Half an hour?
A. No; it was not ten minutes until we were throwing water.
Q. Then the fire had made considerable progress in the round-house?
A. Yes; and across the street in the lumber yards.
Q. Do you know, of your own personal knowledge, that the fire department did call upon the mayor for protection?
A. I cannot say. I saw the mayor there in a buggy.
Q. He didn't offer you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Do you think, with the fire department, you could have cut the fire and stopped it during Sunday, if you had had protection?
A. I don't know whether we could have stopped it, it was on fire in too many different places; but I think we could have picked out twenty-five men and saved Union depot from burning.
Q. Do you mean you could have prevented the mob from firing it?
A. Yes.
Q. With twenty-five policemen?
A. With twenty-five good men of any kind.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you mean that it could have been stopped at that time and place?
A. Yes.
Q. And that you could have prevented the spreading of the fire?
A. Yes; if I had had that number of determined men.
Q. Did you see those parties who set Union depot on fire?
A. No.
Q. Was there no effort made when they set the sheds on fire to tear the sheds down and stop the fire?
A. Not that I saw—not by the police, that I saw. We did all we could. We kept following up the fire.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there no effort made during the day, Sunday, to stop the progress of those men in setting fire to the cars and the depot?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. You were not present when the mayor made a speech to the crowd?
A. No.
John M. Miller, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. On Second avenue.
Q. What was your connection with the fire department in July last?
A. I was an engineer.
Q. What time did you go to the scene of the fire?
A. About twenty minutes after eleven o'clock.
Q. Saturday night?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you interfered with by the crowd?
A. We were fired at and told to go slow, you sons of bitches, all the way, but nobody struck us. I don't know whether they fired at us or not, but our foreman, I believe, was struck in the back.
Q. Did they strike any of your horses?
A. That I cannot tell. I was behind the engine.
Q. Where did you commence work?
A. We were off with the engine about a square from the fire, and commenced work first at Twenty-sixth street. I don't know where they had the hose placed. They told us not to throw on the railroad property, or they would cut our hose, and they tried to prevent me putting on my suction hose. We had to talk to them, and tell them we were not going to play on the railroad property before they would allow us to make any attachment at all.
Q. How long did you remain at work playing on the fire?
A. We returned home at ten o'clock Monday morning, I think it was.
Q. During the day, Sunday, were you interfered with by the mob?
A. They spoke to us, and a drunken fellow told us, if we played on the railroad property, that they would blow our heads off.
Q. Were you protected by the police?
A. The police was a disorganized body—no two of them were together, I don't believe. I never saw over two together the whole day.
Q. Did you call on the police for protection?
A. I didn't.
Q. Did the police offer you any protection?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did Officer Daniel Motts say anything to you at any time?
A. Daniel Motts and a man named Coulston came to us before the round-house caught on fire, about one o'clock that night, and asked us what we were standing there for, and not throwing any water. I said that the mob wouldn't allow us, and they said, I believe, they would protect us. I said, I am not the proper person, as the chief is here, and as we have orders to stand here and wait further orders. But the way they spoke to me, I thought it was in a joking way, because the only protection they could offer wouldn't have amounted to anything. I told them I was not the proper person, that the chief was there.
Q. Did they ask you to play upon any particular point of the fire, and say they would protect you?
A. No; they didn't. The cars were burning above the round-house at the time, but the round-house was not burning at the time.
Q. Did you see the troops come out?
A. No; but I saw them after they came out.
Q. How soon did you get up there after the troops went out?
A. In about twenty minutes or twenty-five minutes.
Q. Was the round-house on fire when you got there?
A. It was burning bad.
Q. Was it burning before they came out?
A. Yes; that is what chased them out. I understood afterwards that they came out of the carpenter shop.
Q. Was the carpenter shop burned afterwards?
A. That I cannot say. We were ordered away below that again.
Q. What became of the crowd when the troops came out?
A. They ran pell mell, and fell over each other. The troops could have marched down Liberty street and drove them. The mob were cowards when daylight shown on them. They had plenty of guns, but not much ammunition for them. They were drunk, and that was what gave courage to the most of them.
Q. Those drunken men, when daylight came, what became of them?
A. They staggered off, and went to sleep or something. They had plenty of liquor.
Q. How many were engaged in firing the cars during the day—Sunday?
A. Not over ten or twelve men. Some of them were boys fourteen or fifteen years of age. The most conspicuous man was a man with one arm.
Q. Were you close?
A. I was; at Twenty-first and Liberty street.
Q. Did you follow down with your department?
A. When the fire broke out down below amongst the cars we were ordered further down. We went then to Twelfth and Liberty streets, that is from Twenty-first to Twelfth.
Q. Was any effort made by either the police or the militia or any person to stop this gang who were firing the cars?
A. None at all. There were plenty of people outside in sympathy with those who were setting fire, and who were handing drinks up to them, and some women were carrying coffee, and handing it to them?
Q. What class of women?
A. They looked like Irish women.
Q. What classes of men were about that day who appeared to be in sympathy with them?
A. It generally was the Irish. Most every person that spoke to us about not playing on the fire was Irish, that is, had the brogue on the tongue.
Q. Were they railroad men, or did they belong to any particular class in the city. Mill men, or any particular class of people?
A. I didn't recognize any of them that I knew personally.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You say they were handing coffee up to those people. It must have been made in the vicinity of the fire?
A. Yes; or else carried some distance. It appeared to be hot coffee.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where was the mayor during the day Sunday?
A. I cannot say; I didn't see him at all.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. After the soldiers marched out the round-house, if they had torn up the track, would it have prevented any further firing west?
A. Previous to the round-house being set on fire?
Q. Afterwards?
A. It would; but they would have followed on down.
Q. But couldn't the soldiers have checked them there?
A. Yes; I think the soldiers could have cleared the whole track after daylight on Sunday, cleared the whole track.
Q. The soldiers or the mayor's posse?
A. I don't know about the mayor's posse. They didn't appear to be so much afraid of the posse as of the guns.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I understand you to say that no attempt was made by either the civil authorities or the military authorities to stop the fire on Sunday, or to clear the track?
A. There was no attempt at all.
Q. Of course, you cannot tell what would have been the result, if an attempt had been made—it is a mere matter of opinion as to what would have been the result?
A. I believe so; but that is my opinion. I feel certain that they could.
Q. You spoke of the police force not being organized. What was the organization of the fire department?
A. The organization of the fire department was perfect. All the men were at their posts all the time, ready to do what they were ordered to do.
Q. How many were at their posts?
A. All the men that were on the force. The force had been reduced, but some of the men that had been put off were helping.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. You say those members of the department that had been put off didn't refuse to assist you?
A. Not at all!
By Mr. Lindsey?
Q. How many men were discharged from the fire department?
A. Some twenty-two.
Q. How many of those men came back to your assistance?
A. Through the whole department I cannot say, but of our company I saw a couple of them. Of course, they had their favorite companies. And then there were plenty of volunteers of the old members of the volunteer department.
Q. Who appoints the fire commissioners?
A. They are elected by city councils.
Q. They have control of the fire department?
A. Yes.
Q. State whether the fire commissioners are subject to the control of any higher body?
A. I don't think they are. I think they are given full power.
Q. Do you know what the law is in regard to that?
A. I don't. I have never examined it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What appeared to be the disposition of the crowd surrounding that fire—did they appear to be in sympathy with the rioters?
A. That I cannot say.
Q. Some of the crowd were gathered there out of curiosity?
A. I would have them all around the engine. It was a regular hum, just like bees—everybody seemed to be talking.
Q. Was there any general expression against the soldiery?
A. I believe there was, after they fired on the mob. I believe some classes of men had a feeling against the soldiers, but I believe the better class of citizens had not.
Q. You say the soldiers could have cleared the tracks and dispersed the mob, when they came out of the round-house?
A. They could—if they had opened with the Gatling guns, there would not have been a soul in sight for fifteen squares.
Q. Do you know whether the officers of the soldiery in the round-house had any communication with anybody outside, during the night?
A. I don't think they had, to my knowledge.
Q. None of them were passing back and forth, between the round-house and outside?
A. That I cannot say. I was not close enough to it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. The soldiers had no means of knowing that the crowd had become dispersed, or weakened, or drunken?
A. I don't think they had. I think the soldiers thought the whole community was against them. If they had known that they could have come out, and drove the mob down, I think they would have done it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Officer Coulston has testified, that the round-house was not on fire where the troops came out—that he went through the building. Could he have gone through those buildings soon after the troops evacuated them?
A. He couldn't. He might have gone into the carpenter shop, or the paint shop, but the flames were coming out of all the windows of the round-house. Nobody could have lived there.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Could a man have got on to the engines as they stood in the stalls?
A. He might, in one part by the carpenter shop, but I don't think he could have lived in any part of it, on account of the heat.
Daniel J. Eckels, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. 135 Second avenue.
Q. Were you connected with the fire department in July last?
A. Yes.
Q. What position did you hold?
A. I was engineer of company No. 2.
Q. State when you arrived at the fire, and how long you remained there?
A. Probably between twelve and one o'clock on Sunday morning. We could not go into service. We waited there on the street by the Independence engine-house. We stayed at the fire until after the troops came out of the round-house.
Q. During the day—Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. And Sunday night?
A. Yes.
Q. Until Monday morning?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you assisted by the police force at any time?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did you see any policemen about there?
A. I cannot say that I did; but I did hear that at one place where we were working the mayor was around, but I did not see him.
Q. Did you see Mayor McCarthy at any time?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Was any attempt made during the entire day of Sunday to stop the men who were engaged in the burning?
A. Not that I know of.
J. F. Rivers, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. On Mulberry street, above Twenty-fifth.
Q. What is your business?
A. I had been a detective in the employ of the city of Pittsburgh previous to July 12.
Q. What position did you hold at the time of the riot?
A. I held no position; but I lived within three squares of the scene, and consequently had considerable interest in the riot. I was away from the city; but I came back on Friday evening. I heard that there was a strike among the railroad men, and, as I knew a great many of them, I was very much interested in their behalf. I went up to the upper round-house on Saturday morning, and there I saw a great many railroad men, and a good many outsiders, that I knew were attracted there for, probably, the same reason I was. They were very orderly, and I saw no trouble there. It did not look as though there was going to be any trouble. I came down to the city and saw the troops at Union depot towards noon, and went up to my home, and saw the troops up on the hill. I paid no more attention to it until towards evening, when I heard the troops had fired upon the crowd. Then I went up there. I was trying to find my two boys. The crowd was then gathering to the number of thousands, and the people were very much excited, and expressed themselves that the troops ought to be cleaned out, and all such language as that. I went away from there, and towards dark I went out towards Twenty-fifth street, and saw the troops had been moved from the Twenty-eighth street position to the round-house, or square-house. The carpenter shop is on one side of Twenty-sixth street, and the round-house and office of the assistant superintendent is on the left hand side opposite. The round-house is a little back of the office, and the outer circle of the round-house comes on the line of Liberty street, and there is a railroad track in front of it belonging to the Valley Railroad Company. The crowd was in front of there; the soldiers were in the round-house and in the carpenter shop. The crowd was there, and probably thirty men were jeering at the soldiers. I did not know any of them; but I went in among the men and I said, "boys, if those men come out you will have to go away, as you do not have any business here." I said, "these men are strangers, and you ought to treat them differently." They said, "we will have them out if we have got to roast them out." I felt some interest in the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and in the interest of good behavior I come down the street, and tried to find some railroad officers to communicate my belief that there would be a fire and trouble. I tried to find some of the railroad officers, but could not do it. It was then after dark—after night. I went towards my home, and I met the crowd on Liberty street going to Union depot. I went up to one man I knew, who was tried in court last week, and I said "the railroad company has conceded to the demands of their employés." I had understood something of that sort. He said "it was too damned thin," and went into the depot, and a short time after there was an alarm of fire. At the corner of Twenty-fifth and Penn avenue the Independence apparatus was stopped by men pointing pistols, and saying if they proceeded any further they would kill their horses. I spoke to the parties that did that loud talking, and they said it did not make any difference—that they had no right to go up and throw water on the railroad property. I said: "These men are responding to a call, and they must obey, and you should not interfere with them." I then went away to see the extent of the fire. I went to Twenty-eighth street, and between there and Twenty-ninth, on Liberty, I saw the burning cars running down the grade towards the Twenty-eighth street crossing. But a switch was turned wrong or something, and the cars ran off the track. They set fire to what is known as the sand-house, and that is the first building that caught fire, and from that the fire communicated to the upper round-house, I think. The fire burned very slow. It appeared to me to be started by people that wanted to plunder, which they did, for they carried out great quantities of goods that day and the next day. The fire burned very slow—I never saw a fire burn so slow in my life. I did not see whether the fire department went into service that night or not. Next morning I saw the troops as they came up Liberty street on to Twenty-fifth, and marched out Penn avenue. I did not see much of any mob at that time. Then the fire department went into service. I saw no person particularly setting things on fire, but I saw two men coming from under a car off the track, in front of the round-house, just at Twenty-sixth street. The car was loaded with liquor, and just shortly after they came out and went away the car caught fire, and then the round-house and the shop and the offices and all caught fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Before or after the troops came out?
A. A portion of it—the square shop that they came out of was set on fire afterwards. The building was L shaped, and there was a fire in the rear of it, and there might have been a fire—but I won't be positive—but there might have been a fire in the L that ran towards the road, but none in the L on Liberty street when they came out; and they had made some efforts to protect themselves against fire, because I discovered some leather hose, that the railroad company had in the premises, after the troops came out. The fire then kept burning down gradually on Liberty street down the railroad, and the people kept carrying off the goods all day Sunday. Down at the Union depot—previous to that catching fire—I was in there, and saw that the parties had moved as many of the goods as they could, and I saw no person trying to stop them. They set the depot master's office on fire, and then a burning car was run down into the depot, and that fired it. I saw the troops marching down Twenty-fifth street towards Penn, and saw them march up Penn.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Can you tell us what portion of the round-house, or the buildings attached to it, were on fire when they left?
A. I do not know, but there might have been a fire in the rear of the round-house—the portion of it that is next to the main line might have been afire—and as I said before, this L of the carpenter shop might have been afire previous to the vacation, but I do not know it; but, from my recollection of it, the fire burned so slow that there must have been a fire in there before they got out, because when it caught from the burning car on Liberty street, the whole building appeared to be enveloped at once.
Q. Did you see the troops fired on as they went out?
A. I saw one man fire, I think, twice. He attempted to run into my yard, and I kicked him out, and I said "if you want to fire on those men go out and do it, but you cannot do it here." He ran out and shot at them with a pistol. Somebody returned the fire, and he quit following them any further.
Q. Did you know him?
A. No; I never saw him before. I know a great many men here; but I knew very few men that took part in the riot.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You were around through the crowd?
A. Yes.
Q. And could judge of the crowd?
A. The men I saw jeering the soldiers penned in there, I did not know any of them, nor I do not think they knew me, because I think if they had known I was an officer, or had been one, I think they would have made it lively for me, because I have the idea that they would have thought I was there in the line of my business. I did not know any of them. But this man, Richardson, that was tried last week, I saw him and spoke to him about half past nine o'clock on Saturday night, and told him that the railroad company had conceded to the wishes of the men, and he said that was too damned thin, and went on.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. In your experience as a detective in this city, you have gained an extensive knowledge of the people?
A. Yes.
Q. And from the general appearance of that mob you think they were strangers, and did not belong in the city.
A. Yes; that is, the ringleaders. I was at one time on the Pennsylvania railroad, a number of years ago, and in consequence of that, I know a great many railroad men, employés of the road, and I saw none of them engaged in this riot. When I first went up there, in the morning, I saw a great many I knew, railroad men, but they were all quiet and orderly.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you have any conversation with them as to the reasons or causes that led to the strike?
A. Yes; their grievances were, as far as they told me, that they had been required to put on double-headers, and the reduction in the number of their men that they would lose so many men, as they called it, in a crew.
Q. Did they express any intention of using violence?
A. Not that I heard. I did not hear a man say a word that would tend to show he was going to use any violence. I remarked to four or five of them standing together: "If the mayor sends his police here and orders you fellows away from here, you have no business here on this property, and you must go."
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What day was that?
A. On Saturday morning, about ten o'clock.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you hear any of those railroad men speak of a preconcerted arrangement for a general strike through the country?
A. I never did.
Q. At that time?
A. No.
Q. Nor since?
A. No.
Michael Hannigan, sworn with uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. No. 45, Grant street.
Q. What was your business in July last.
A. I was acting foreman of engine company No. 2.
Q. What time did you visit the scene of the riot?
A. Between one and two o'clock on Sunday morning.
Q. At what point did you stop first?
A. We answered box No. 62, and then the chief gave us orders to stop at Twenty-third and Penn, and not make any attachment until we got further orders.
Q. How large was the crowd at that time?
A. A great many men were scattered along the street as we were going to the box. The fire was down as far as Twenty-third street by that time. By daylight it got warm at Twenty-third and Liberty, and the chief got permission from the mob to lay a line of hose so that a foundry there might not take fire. We afterwards went to Twenty-sixth street, but could not get across there as the soldiers were firing across Twenty-sixth street.
Q. What time was that?
A. An hour after we were at Twenty-third street.
Q. After daylight?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you visit the round-house after the troops left?
A. It was impossible for anybody to go there. The upper building was completely burned when we went into service. It is a square building.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Attached to or in close proximity to the round-house?
A. Yes. The roof had fallen in when we laid the line of hose. That was in ten minutes after the soldiers had left the round-house.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How long before the round-house was consumed by fire?
A. I cannot tell you that.
Q. Did the soldiers march out in good order?
A. I did not see the soldiers except at a distance.
Q. Did you remain on duty during the day Sunday?
A. Yes; and up until Monday morning at ten o'clock.
Q. Had the fire stopped when you left?
A. Yes, We were on Washington street.
Q. What stopped the crowd from plundering and burning?
A. I do not know that.
Q. After they fired Union depot, did they fire any other property?
A. There was a depot fired on the west side.
Q. How far down towards the city did the crowd come?
A. It was down there on Seventh avenue.
Q. How large a crowd was on Seventh avenue?
A. From the Rush House down to Seventh avenue—ten thousand men—you could hardly get through.
Q. Were there any police there to arrest the crowd?
A. I did not see any.
Q. Did you see the crowd when they dispersed from that point?
A. No.
Q. Were you assisted at any time during the fire by the police?
A. No.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you protected?
A. No.
Q. Did you ask for protection?
A. No; the mob had a cannon planted at Twenty-seventh street, pointed right at the engine, and they said if you play on the railroad property we will raise you. We did not want to be raised.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Who made those threats?
A. That I can not tell you.
Q. Was any effort made by the mob to set fire to private property, that you saw?
A. I did not see any of that.
Q. On Sunday night they had finished all the railroad property?
A. I think the last they set afire was that depot on Grant street.
Q. What became of the mob after that time?
A. I do not know, but I heard several citizens express themselves that they were getting tired of this work. We were then on Bedford avenue. They said they were going too far with it.
Q. Citizens said that?
A. Yes.
Q. What citizens made those remarks?
A. I do not recollect.
Q. Where were the mob during Sunday night?
A. I did not see any of the mob at the time we went out. I saw a great many people on the street. We had to go very slow. They were using all kinds of threats.
Q. When you left, on Monday morning, was everything quiet?
A. Everything was quiet then.
Q. Where had these people gone?
A. I do not know.
Q. Did you see the mayor about at any time?
A. Once, at the corner of Twentieth and Liberty streets, standing against a gas post.
Q. What time was that?
A. In the afternoon—I do not recollect the hour.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Do you know whether the round-house was on fire when the military left it?
A. Yes; at least that building was.
Q. How long after the military left did you go to the round-house?
A. While I walked from the corner of Twenty-fourth up to Twenty-sixth street.
Colonel D. L. Smith, sworn with the uplifted hand:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. In the city of Allegheny.
Q. Do you hold any official position?
A. I am one of the aldermen of that city.
Q. Where were you at the time of the riots in July last?
A. I was at my home in Allegheny city.
Q. What occurred there in regard to the riots, that you have any knowledge of?
A. About half past five o'clock in the evening, on the day that the soldiers fired in the crowd, my office boy came to my office and reported to me in great excitement, that the soldiers had fired on and killed a number of the citizens. I then went to the scene of the trouble, and remained there until about eight o'clock in the evening.
Q. What time did you get there?
A. At six o'clock. The troops had just gone into the round-house as I got there. I returned to my office after eight o'clock, and when the cars were fired at eleven o'clock, I saw the light and heard the alarm, and immediately went to the scene, and remained there until four o'clock in the morning. I then returned home, and remained at home until one o'clock, and then came to Pittsburgh again and remained until nine o'clock.
Q. What did you observe?
A. One or two wounded men being carried from the ground. I observed a disorganized mass of people standing in groups, numbering perhaps six or eight hundred, discussing the fire and passing their comments on it.
Q. This crowd of people you saw there—of what class was it composed?
A. There were some few railroad employés, but the most of them I recognized as mill hands from the different rolling-mills. I knew many of them personally.
Q. A portion of them from your city?
A. Yes; attracted by excitement to the fire. Some remained there.
Q. What were those mill hands doing when you went there?
A. Discussing the question involved in the railroad strikes, and some of them were using threats. One man remarked, if the firing went on, that there wouldn't be a dollar's worth of railroad property left in the county of Allegheny at nine o'clock the next morning. Quite a number of persons I recognized as persons I knew to be workingmen from other sections. I know a great many of the Pittsburgh workingmen.
Q. You say from other sections?
A. I judged them to be miners and mill hands, attracted here from outlying counties—attracted by news of the riot; in fact, in conversation with some, they informed me they had come from different places.
Q. From communities within a short distance of the city?
A. Yes.
Q. Were that class of men taking part in the disturbance?
A. At that time there was no disturbance. It was very peaceful, except the grumbling. But at eleven o'clock, I was on the railroad track, and I noticed three men breaking into and taking the contents of a car.
Q. Did you know who those men were?
A. No; they appeared to be workingmen, and some of them appeared to be familiar with handling cars from the manner in which they proceeded to open the cars. I went down and remonstrated with them, and they treated me very civilly—didn't seem to take as an insult my interference. I remarked that the railroad company would not be the sufferer. They paid no particular attention, and I told them, you men will certainly be punished for this. I told them I was a magistrate, and had come in my official capacity to try and quell the disturbance; but they paid no attention. There was no riot at that time. They went peaceably about it.
Q. Did they get the goods out?
A. Yes; they threw them out promiscuously. The greater number of goods were carried away by girls about sixteen years of age and by boys up to twenty years of age. The goods were carried away by residents of the immediate neighborhood. I then went up to where they were setting fire to the oil cars, and there were probably not more than eight or ten men engaged in that.
Q. Who were they?
A. I do not know. They seemed to be workingmen from their garb. I knew them to be workingmen, and several of them I knew were familiar with operating railroads, from the fact that they knew how to open the switches, and run the cars into position, and they handled the cars with the experience of practical mechanics.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Do you mean they were railroad men?
A. Certainly; some of them. At this time probably twenty cars were on fire, and there were not over one hundred and fifty persons altogether on the railroad tracks.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. What hour was this?
A. Twelve o'clock on Saturday night. Just then a man came from the crowd of rioters—there was a crowd collected in front of the round-house for the purpose of fighting the militia—and he jumped on to a flat car and drew a sword—he had a belt around him, but had no uniform—and he immediately ordered them to stop burning the cars and pillaging the trains, saying that they had come not to burn and pillage, but to fight the military.
Q. Who was he?
A. He was evidently a leader, but I did not know him. He was from the party that came from Birmingham. Immediately when he jumped on that car, somebody hallooed "police," and in five minutes there was not a man left on the railroad track. The cry of "police" cleared the whole thing out, and any two police officers could have preserved the peace.
Q. You think that a small force of police there could have straightened things up?
A. At no time more than twenty men were engaged in the burning.
Q. How long did you stay?
A. Until four o'clock in the morning.
Q. You say those carrying off the goods were mostly children?
A. They were mostly young—girls and boys. At one o'clock in the morning I passed the police station on Penn street, in the immediate vicinity, and the police officers were arresting every person passing with goods and there was no resistance. They had perfect control. A mob amounting to not more than five hundred persons was standing near, and they had a cannon commanding the round-house, but the soldiers had covered it with their arms, and had killed one or two of the rioters. The mob engaged in fighting the soldiers were not engaged in the burning and pillaging. I went among them. One of them called me by name. I knew his face. He said, "Alderman, don't go down that way; they will shoot you." But I said, "No," and passed on through them. I said to him, "You had better go home," when he said that they had come for the purpose of fighting the militia, and were going to fight them.
Q. What time was that?
A. About four o'clock. It was just breaking day.
Q. Now, this mob gathered around in the vicinity of the round-house—what was that mob composed of?
A. I recognized that mob as composed nearly all of people who were working men from the south side of the river.
Q. That is, Birmingham?
A. Yes; some few of them were citizens that I knew. And I would state that some few were armed, but showed no disposition to violence except that they had an antipathy to the soldiers that had fired on their relatives. I mention this fact to show that there should be a distinction between the rioters proper and the plunderers. They didn't seem to be acting in concert. A posse of police of twenty men could have protected all the property that night.
Q. Did you hear any body state that the rioters or the mob had prevented the fire department from throwing water on the railroad property?
A. I did not. But I have no doubt they would have prevented it, from the disposition of the mob. I didn't see any person setting fire to the Union depot. I took my stand at the elevator. I met one of the clerks belonging to the company, and he told me that they had refused to let them take their books out. I said, come back with me, and I will take them out. So I went back and stationed myself at the elevator, to save it, if I could, by my presence there, and by calling a posse comitatus. But I could not get any person to serve. The sheds below Union depot were then taking fire, and two or three men came, and wanted to go into the elevator. I told them not to go in. At this time not less than twenty thousand people were there—men, women, and children—but there was no rioting, and there were not more than eight or ten or a score of men engaged in spreading the fire at that time. They seemed to be peaceable.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You mean the men who were setting things on fire?
A. Yes; they went to it deliberately'.
Q. You spoke about raising a posse comitatus?
A. I tried to raise it. I called on a gentleman from Allegheny, named Gray. I summoned him to my assistance, but he refused to act, but said if I could get ten more he would do so. I afterwards saw some other parties, but while they deprecated the burning, they said it was worth their lives to interfere. I then went with Mr. Gray down to where the men were running the burning cars, and tried to reason with them. At that time probably twenty men were engaged in that, besides the persons engaged in carrying the things off. And by that time they had gotten into liquor, and were pretty well intoxicated. On Sunday afternoon I also tried to raise a posse comitatus. I called on some citizens that I knew, but they were afraid to do anything, alleging that the military and police should do it.