REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877. (continued 28)
Reading edition
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where did the shot come from—this first shot you heard?
A. Seemed to be a pistol shot.
Q. From the crowd or mob?
A. Yes; and the crowd rushed up and kind of fell back, and the shooting commenced. The shooting first was wild.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Before that shot was fired, were there any stones or missiles thrown?
A. Many stones and sticks. I was at the head, and the line was a long one—about forty, marching two by two.
Q. Were any stones or missiles thrown at the party to which you belonged?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At the rear of the line?
A. Yes; and on the side also. It looked to me as though they were going to rush. I happened to see the riots in 1863, and I saw the same swing of the crowd—the fellows behind push up those in front. When these things were thrown, the firing commenced. They fell back once or twice—little short rallies—and run, and we went back to the store. The next day the troops came. I might say when we left the store, we heard the men were going to Pine Brook, and that they were calculating to drive out the men that were in there, and burn the breaker.
Q. Were those your mines?
A. Yes, our mines. And also that they were going to stop at Dixon's works on the way.
Q. Were they also your mines?
A. No, sir; they were Dixon Manufacturing Company's works and machine shops. I might say, also, previous to this—the Sunday before this thing—our pump engineers, &c. had been visited, and it was said they were afraid to work, and left us. Of course I put people there in whom I had confidence, to run the pumps and keep them going.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Will you give us a statement of what you were paying your men at that time?
A. We pay—most of our work is done by the ton. There is very little day-work with us, except shop hands and furnace men. Our rolling-mill men and steel-works men are working now under the same wages under which they struck. Our rolling-mill heaters are making from ninety to one hundred dollars a month. I can bring you the pay-rolls. I have got them at the office. The most of our men in the mills worked by the ton and by the roll—that is permanent men. All except the commoner class of laborers are making now anywhere from forty-five to sixty and seventy-five dollars—along there. The men in the steel-works are making about—well I should think anywhere from forty-five to sixty dollars—along there—it depends entirely on the product. We pay them according to the ton, and if they do small work they get small pay.
Q. Pay in proportion to the amount of work done?
A. Yes, sir; so much a ton. We pay a heater ten cents a ton. If he heats forty tons, he gets four dollars. Our mining wages are regulated entirely by the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western. We pay whatever wages they do. We tried to keep them working as full as possible.
Q. Can you give an estimate of what a man can make a day, should they work in the mines all day?
A. I am not so conversant with the special details of the mines. I can bring the pay-rolls, if you would like. I think that a miner—with our miners in Briggs shaft, I should think the average now depends a good deal on the men themselves—how smart they are—and I should think anywhere from thirty-eight to forty, along to fifty-five and sixty dollars a month. That is, a miner. Of course, a laborer don't make so much.
Q. Laborers in the mines work by the day or by the ton?
A. I think they are paid by the car. I don't remember how that is. A miner hires his own laborer, I believe.
Q. You haven't any particular charge of the details?
A. We pay it, that is all. I don't remember all this. Our Mr. Mattes could tell you better than I can. Our mining wages are virtually out of our hands. Whatever the D.L.W. pay, we pay, and the men, on their part, agree to work through, in case of a strike, and we agree to pay in advance, dating from the commencement of the strike, that the railroad may settle with their men to pay.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Had there been any reduction prior to the 1st of August?
A. Our men, all excepting miners, had been reduced on the 1st of July. The reduction was ten per cent., some not that much, some more—averaging, probably, ten or twelve per cent., I suppose.
Q. Were there any men, under that reduction, that would make less than a dollar a day?
A. Our laborers were making less than eighty cents a day. The number of common laborers we have is very small. We don't have very many. I don't know how many we have, exactly. Our work is by the ton, as far as possible. Of course, it is better to have things by the ton.
Q. When was the reduction before the 1st of July?
A. I don't remember when we did last reduce. I could tell you this evening. Perhaps Mr. Mattes could tell you.
Q. Something has been said about a letter being read at the silk-factory—did you ever try to ascertain how that originated?—purporting to give some statement that you had made?
A. I hear of the letter, of course, that was all. No truth in that letter. The letter was forged. I don't know who wrote it. Perhaps I might give a very good guess, and also, about other things. You have a great deal of knowledge that you cannot give legal force to.
Q. You have never been able to ascertain who it was, so as to prove it, who wrote the letter?
A. I was perfectly satisfied in my mind—no, I have never been able to prove it, but the time will come, undoubtedly, that I shall, and a good many other things, too.
Q. Did you find out what motive induced or actuated the man to send it?
A. It was, undoubtedly, a desire at the time—the men knew, and were perfectly well aware that our men were, for the time being, just terrorized. They knew, as well as I did, that if I could get our iron company men to work, the thing would stop, therefore it was necessary to drive them out to prolong the strike. For the same reason the Pennsylvania Coal Company's head-house was burnt.
Q. How many men did your company employ?
A. I think we have got about eighteen hundred or two thousand. I think there is about sixteen or seventeen hundred signatures on the pay-roll, and a great many of them draw pay for their children—two or three—sometimes. I suppose we have probably employed somewhere in the neighborhood of seventeen or eighteen hundred.
Q. Boys employed?
A. To a very large extent, boys who are under eighteen or twenty give their pay to their parents. Their parents draw it for them. My impression is, there is a law by which a parent can take the child's pay under age. I think they do draw it, though in many cases they do not do it. Their parents are paid.
Q. That includes the miners?
A. Yes; we have three mines. One of our mines is flooded—filled entirely.
Q. On account of the strike?
A. No; I flooded it myself, long ago, so as to run two mines, to give as steady work as possible to those that did work.
By Mr. Means:
Q. I would like you tell what passed between you and the chairman of the committee that waited upon you?
A. The men waited.
Q. First and foremost, do you know the chairman?
A. I really don't know who was chairman of that committee. The men can tell you that better themselves. There were a number of spokesmen. Mr. Duffy spoke, and I don't know but McNally did.
Q. Did you know the spokesmen yourself?
A. Yes; I knew the spokesmen.
Q. Who were they?
A. I think that John Evans was one. I am not sure; but McNally was another. I think Duffy said something.
Q. State what passed between you and the chairman of that committee?
A. They came out after the strike—after they had got the furnacemen off—came to the office to see me. I am not sure whether it was Wednesday or Thursday. I had sent around word, and a good many that I felt were not treating the company right to strike and stop their works, without letting us know what ground of complaint they had, and I sent word around there, so that a committee came, and they stated they wanted more pay. They said thirty-five per cent.
Q. Thirty-five?
A. Thirty-five; yes, sir. Of course, no one in the iron business now could do that. Such an advance as that was out of the question. I told them that was out of the question, we couldn't pay them any more. It was out of the question. We couldn't clear ourselves. I asked them whether it was not better to take what they could get, and work steady until times grew better, than to stop and get nothing. Well, they said, the long and short of the matter was they wouldn't work unless they got thirty-five per cent., and they went away.
Q. Did you say to those men—this committee—when the times got better you were willing to advance their wages?
A. I believe I did say something of that kind in reply. If we could afford it we would be glad to do so.
Q. Did they make any reply to that?
A. I don't remember that they did.
Q. They said they wouldn't work unless you did advance?
A. Yes, sir; but, at that same time, I was receiving information all the time from many sources, that the most of them were perfectly willing to work. All they wanted was protection, and that they would go to work, which they did do on the following Tuesday.
Q. They did go to work on the following Tuesday?
A. All of our men went to work on the following Tuesday, except our iron rolling men. We had no work for the steel mill.
Q. When that committee waited upon you, did they say to you, or did they intimate to you, that they would force you into measures?
A. We had quite a long talk. I don't remember anything of that kind. They said they wouldn't work until they got an advance; of course that is equivalent to forcing a way.
Q. They didn't make any threats?
A. I don't remember of that?
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. In consequence of that strike, did you blow out your furnaces?
A. Lost two furnaces.
Q. What was the damage?
A. It cost us about ten thousand dollars. We made up an itemized list of it soon afterwards. It amounted to about ten thousand dollars—a trifle over. It was a direct damage—it took as much to blast out our scaffold and re-line it, and there was some other incidental damage.
Q. Ten thousand dollars about covers the damage?
A. That is the strike damages—actual loss.
Q. To say nothing of incidental losses?
A. Yes; we paid that out afterwards to fix it.
Q. Was there any loss in the vicinity?
A. The Pennsylvania Company's head-house was burnt; their trellising was burnt, not on the actual day of the riots—it was during that time.
Q. Can you give an estimate account of that?
A. Our Point Brook stable was burnt—that was after we started our works again.
Q. Can you estimate the damage to the Pennsylvania Company?
A. No; other people could tell you better about that.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was there any disposition manifested on the part of your men, to go in to the furnaces and run them, if you would permit them?
A. I don't know of any such; no sir. Of course, we would only have been glad to have them run. If they run them at all, they must run under our protection.
Q. Was there any disposition, any offers made on the part of your men to go in and work?
A. If we would protect them. Oh, yes; if we would protect them after two or three days. The first day, they stated, they were afraid of men striking outside. We labored with the furnace men by night, talking with them, trying to get them to stay. They said they were afraid. The following Tuesday, they got more or less over the fear, and they did go back, if that is what you mean.
Q. Did your men say who made the threats against them—of who they were afraid?
A. No; it was that some men would come to their houses and tell them so and so—tell their wives so and so, some men either told their little girls, and that kind of thing. We could get very little information from them.
Q. The threats were not open and above board?
A. Yes; may have been open, but they didn't give their names to us—were afraid we would act on them.
Q. In your opinion, were those men that made these threats in your employ?
A. Yes, sir; some were. You see, Mr. McGowan cleaned out the Mollies in Schuylkill. A great many of them who had not been apprehended have come up here and they now lie partly between here and Pittston, and Carbondale, and a good many in Oliphant and Carr's Patch; and the men who had been at Minica, were very largely men who were prominent in the riot. These Mollies are now re-organizing here more or less. We have got accurate information. Our information nowadays is very accurate. We know precisely where we stand.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You have stated the substance of the agreement?
A. I have stated the substance of it, that is, with our miners alone. When we took our men back, we made an agreement with all our men, that hereafter they should give us thirty days' notice or forfeit their pay at the time of strike. That agreement was signed by every man who was of any consequence at all. Of course, there is a number of small fry that we don't care anything about.
Q. Signed by the men who carried on your works?
A. It is signed by three fourths of the men in our employ—miners, laborers, driver boys, &c. Our orders are strict in the matter.
Q. Did they enter into this article of agreement with a perfect understanding of what they were doing?
A. They received a printed copy. They agreed to give us thirty days' notice. They all agreed to work on in case of a strike, in case of any commotion elsewhere, they agreed to give us thirty days' notice. If they struck after thirty days' notice, they forfeited all pay due them at the time of the strike. That our miners, in case of a general strike, they agreed to work on through it and we agreed to pay them back pay when the railroad company pays.
Q. The railroad also engages in mining?
A. Yes; the D., L. and W., and the Delaware and Hudson are also mining. We mine no coal except for our own purposes—for our mills and steel-works—and we necessarily make a good deal of fine coal that is not convenient to use ourselves, and we sell what little fine coal we make that we don't want ourselves. We send nothing to New York.
Q. Did you notice any uneasiness among the men, or disposition to strike, prior to the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. No, sir. Of course, the great depression of business, and all that kind of thing contributed to make things very hard. There was a great many men out of work—that made it somewhat hard. Of course, a reduction of wages is a thing you never take until a necessity comes on, and you cannot help yourself.
Q. Had there been any talk or organization among the men about a strike prior to the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. Not that I know of, sir. It went like wild-fire everywhere, and took these men like everybody else.
… Powell, re-called:
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Are you prepared to give the figures as to the pay for mining per ton or per car?
A. You referred back, while I was on the stand before, to 1873. I have some figures for the price of mining coal from 1871 to 1878. The Delaware, Lackawanna and Western Railroad Company in '71, 2, 3, and 4, the G vein would return per car, $1 17½, the E vein, what they call the Diamond vein——
Q. One dollar seventeen and a half cents per car?
A. That was in 1874.
Q. The E vein, how much?
A. Ninety-three and a half cents. Six cars constitute a full shift between the miner and laborer.
Q. That makes what you would call a day's work?
A. A full shift; that is in the G vein. In the E vein, it is seven cars. The laborer draws one third of the total mined, then what remains after deducting expenses, on an average, amounts to about $1 10 at that time.
Q. One dollar and ten cents for a day for the six or seven cars?
A. Expense. That is the wear and tear that has got to come out of the miners. The miner at that wages, would get $3 50, and the laborer about $2 35.
Q. The miner how much?
A. Three dollars and fifty cents. That is, taking now the highest rates ever given. In January, 1875, I was getting ten per cent. reduction, and G vein was then reduced to $1 06 per car.
Q. Just give us the reduction?
A. March 15, in 1876, the Diamond G vein per car, ninety-five and one half.
Q. Was there reduction there?
A. Ten per cent.
Q. In addition to what you have stated?
A. Yes, sir; March 15, fifteen per cent. reduction.
Q. When was the ten per cent. reduction?
A. March, 1877.
Q. Now there is ten per cent. more?
A. Fifteen per cent.
Q. On July 1, was there any reduction?
A. June, 1875, ten per cent.; March 15, 1876, ten per cent.; January, 1876, ten per cent.; March 15, 1877, fifteen per cent.
Q. Was there any reduction after that?
A. No, sir; not for the miners. There is one thing, we have another vein here which we call the G vein, top and bottom, that is seventy-two cents per car.
Q. Has this reduction been general in all the mines, the same per centage?
A. The same per centage.
Q. Is there anything else?
A. You refer to the number of days worked. I can give you that.
Q. Your own days?
A. Through the courtesy of the superintendent of the Delaware, Lackawanna and Western I got the number of days from their books. The number of days worked in 1876, one hundred and sixty-five and three quarters. That was the breaker work in a year, making an average of $14 per month, that is the whole breaker work. You take the mines there, and all they make is an average of $12 per month—of the miners. In 1877 it averaged about—the breaker work—about $16; that would give the miners about $13 per month. In 1878 it lacks an average of $12, which would give the miners nearly $10.
Q. How many days did you make in any month?
A. I took the whole average of the mines.
Q. Got that from what?
A. The books of the company.
Q. Of the company you are working for?
A. Yes, sir.
Isaac Felts, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State whether your store was broken open on the 1st day of August last?
A. The 1st day of August I found it was broken open. They said it was broken open in the morning.
Q. Done in the night or during the morning?
A. After midnight.
Q. How far from Scranton is it?
A. It is about three miles, or three and one half, I should judge.
Q. In which direction?
A. It is south from here—pretty nearly south.
Q. How far beyond the silk-factory?
A. It must be two and one half miles, probably.
Q. Is it near the church that stands out at Greenwood?
A. It is beyond the church; it is about half a mile or so beyond the church.
Q. State what your damage was?
A. As near as I can judge, I think it is between $3,000 and $4,000.
Q. Goods that were carried off?
A. Goods carried off.
Q. What kind of goods?
A. All kinds of merchandise. Goods pretty much that belong to a country store. We had to keep a little of most everything there.
Q. Was anything in the shape of ammunition or arms taken away?
A. No, sir; not that I know of. I had mining supplies. I had some little powder there, and one thing or other that was not taken. There was no ammunition that I knew of.
Joe Shoemaker, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were do you live?
A. Over in the Eleventh ward, Sixth street.
Q. What is your business?
A. Blacksmith.
Q. Where were you on the 1st day of August last?
A. The 1st day of August I went to work in the morning at the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company's—down here at the flats.
Q. Go on and tell us what you did that day?
A. I worked there, and about between eleven and twelve o'clock—the miners had a meeting at the silk-factory, and the men came down and called us out. My woman was down there. "Joe," she says, "Come out, the miners will kill you;" says I, "I guess they won't do that." I went out and came up near the boiler-shop—and went out—I was the last man that went out of that shop. I didn't want to go out, I was satisfied with the wages Scranton offered me. I didn't want to go out, but they all went out, and so I went out—I closed the door of the shop, and I went out when everybody was done. I wanted to see what was going on, and I seen them—they went in the boiler-shop. There was a man working in there by the name of Hilton, and there was hollering inside, and I didn't know what was the matter, and I saw a man jump out and some fellow standing outside the door, he was jumping against the door. The door fly open and knocked them fellows back, and they run right in. They picked up stones and fired at them. They seen me, I had my sleeves rolled up. They thought that is a working man, and they fired at me. I got four stones, one on that shoulder, and one on that, and one right here, [indicating.] I sat down. I could not move myself any more. I hopped up, and when I got there he said, "Joe that blow I would not have for fifty dollars." I didn't want to tell them I got hurt. The engineer was getting out, he was half ways in the window and half ways out when they got at him.
Q. Do you know any of those men that were hammering your engineer?
A. I was too far away. I was up at Robinson's brewery. I was too far off. I didn't go near them any more. He run around the building, and when he got to the foundry there was a pile of pig iron of about three foot high, and he run down, and some people stopped there by the foundry, and they picked up stones and fired at him. When he was behind that pig iron, he was gone from my eyes. That was all I could see of him. If it was not for the stopping work, I would have had about $120 in my pocket, where I didn't have a cent. I was willing to work on, but they didn't let me.
Q. How long was you idle?
A. Three months idle. Had a family with three children, and was willing to work, but I couldn't work.
Q. Because they would not let you?
A. No.
Q. How much did you get a day when they drove you out of the shop?
A. I had $1 53. My wages is $40 any how, and then the three months makes me $120 lost. Whose fault is it? Not mine. I was willing to work. It was not the company's fault either.
Q. The fault of strikers, was not it?
A. Yes; and then they hit me, and I had to lay two weeks in the bed, and the society to where I belong had to pay me benefits.
Q. What society do you belong to?
A. To a Dutch society—to two of them. I belong now twenty years—to one of them twenty-five years.
Q. What is the name of that society?
A. St. Joseph's Verein and Lackawanna Mutual Association.
Q. What is that society for?
A. For to pay benefits, same as Odd Fellows. Pay benefit if a man is sick. If you die, the woman gets $50. If you are sick, you have $4 a week. The society paid that at the time they hit me, and they had to pay me for it because it was not my fault. They didn't want to do it, but they had to do it. I said it was not my fault. I went to work for my family, and I got hurt. It was not my fault, and they had to pay me, so they did.
Charles F. Mattes, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State your residence and your business, if you please?
A. My residence is here in Scranton. I have general charge of the coal mines, and real estate agent of the Lackawanna Iron and Coal Company. In reference to this matter, I will state just here that I was not an eye witness of those riots. When this suit was brought against the parties who were engaged in the shooting, I was charged with the gathering of evidence in the case on the part of the defendants, and it brought me in communication with a great many persons who were witnesses who were directly concerned, and I presume it is supposed for that reason that I could give more information than, perhaps, any other person in reference to it; but what I would have to say would not be from observation, but from other parties.
Q. We don't care to have you describe the riot as it occurred here that day. That has been described by so many gentlemen. I wish you would give us what information you have as to the cause of the riots, and what your information is as to what produced them, based upon information that you collected in making these defenses?
A. In the first place, the strike originated here with the railroad employés—firemen and brakemen ostensibly. Miners and mechanics, generally, and workmen generally were working on quietly, and with no demonstration of any sort, apparently reasonably well satisfied. There had been, from time to time, reductions in the wages, which are always accompanied, as every one knows, with more or less feeling of dissatisfaction on the part of those whose pay is reduced; but this strike here, it occurred to me, was a sympathetic movement in accord with the strike of the firemen. By that strike all transportation ceased. Of course the mines could not be carried on. The men were thrown out of employment; they could not work if they desired to, because there were no cars and no means of carrying away the product of the mines. The consequence was, they would meet together, and these matters were discussed. Agitators would go among them. The better class of men were overruled, and the more violent agitators carried the day, and it resulted in a strike and demand of an increase of twenty-five per cent. in the rate of wages, at a time when everything was depressed, and it was so preposterous. They were assured by a good many that it was a foolish demand, and one they could not expect to have acceded to, and must result in a prolongation of their idleness if they insisted upon that demand. I don't know as I could add anything to what has already been said here as to the cause. The strike on the railroad, in my view, was the primary cause, and it threw the men idle, and as is pretty nearly always the case, there was more or less trouble.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You think the strike at Pittsburgh was the cause of the strike at Scranton?
A. …
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Why was it?
A. Because this movement was carried through on the railroads. The railroads were all stopped. Many other classes of men were working along contentedly, satisfied that they were doing the best thing they could do, if they were not satisfied with their wages. We all know they were feeling as though they were working for low wages, and those men who came among them did their utmost to create this spirit of dissatisfaction, and induce the strike.
Q. What combination, if any, was there between railroad men and other laborers?
A. I don't know that there was any direct combination. There was said to be a general labor union organized at the time. We heard a great deal of unions of various occupations, and of a general union of laboring and workingmen.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you succeed in tracing that thing to a reliable source to find whether there was a union organized here?
A. I was perfectly satisfied in my own mind that there was a union. As to the existence of it, I couldn't definitely say.
Q. Was there any riot organized in the city of Scranton?
A. I think so.
Q. Composed of what class of men?
A. Composed of all classes of workingmen, so far as I could get at it. I was satisfied it was so. I couldn't state that positively, nor I couldn't point to men as directly connected with it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Were the railroad employés the prime movers in this strike?
A. It occurred to me they were. They took the initiative at any rate in striking. They spoke first.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. The railroad employés did.
A. Yes. I mean by the railroad men, the men operating their trains. There was a large mass of miners—much the larger mass of miners are employés of the railroad company in this vicinity.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. From the information you got, do you think there was an organization, and it was understood that the railroad men were the first to strike?
A. No, sir; I don't know that that is so.
Q. From your own knowledge of the state of the case then, as I understand it, you think the railroad men struck first of their own accord?
A. It appeared so to me, and, from any knowledge I have, I should judge it was so.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. And the rest followed from a general sympathy of all laboring classes with them?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. I want to know whether the railroad men struck before or after the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. I think it was directly after—just about that same time, and just about the same time the thing followed around all over in quick succession.
Q. Do you recollect the day when they struck?
A. No, sir; I don't.
Q. Do you recollect the day the trains stopped running?
A. No, sir. I could easily have ascertained this point, only I didn't suppose I would be called upon for anything of the kind, and made no preparations.
Q. You think it was not until after the strike at Pittsburgh?
A. It was just about that time. I think it was just after.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have you learned whether it was by a pre-concerted arrangement that they should strike here?
A. No, sir; but it appeared as if they did so. We knew very well there were labor organizations among the railroad men. They had their brotherhoods of engineers, and of firemen, and of brakemen, &c.
Q. Was there such an organization here as the Trainmen's Union that you knew of?
A. I never heard of it by that name. I had nothing particularly to do with the railroad, and, of course, wouldn't be as well posted in that as in some other matters.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. From the investigation you made, and from your knowledge of the strike here, do you think there would have been any strike here had you heard nothing of the strike at Pittsburgh and other parts of the country?
A. I think there would have been.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Why do you think there would not have been?
A. The men were working on peaceably, and apparently contented, and there were no demonstrations made, whatever, and they were getting reasonable pay.
Q. Did you hear any of those strikers say it was because the men struck at Pittsburgh and in Virginia or any other place?
A. You could get no reason out of them. I conversed with many men, but there was scarcely an instance in which he would acknowledge that he was a striker. He stopped simply because the rest of the men stopped.
Q. It was apparently infectious?
A. I don't think I met with a dozen men who would acknowledge that they were interested in the strike.
By Mr. Means:
Q. He proposed that if he was in Rome he would do as Rome does?
A. There was another reason assigned, something in substance to that.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. They wouldn't acknowledge that they were engaged in striking, in the conversations you had with them?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was there any fear, you think, operating on the minds of those men with whom you conversed that if they did acknowledge they were engaged in a strike they might be discharged by their several employers?
A. There may have been. I have no doubt some were affected in that way—no doubt of that, whatever.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. I understood the witness to say that the railroad men struck first?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was there not a strike among other classes of men—iron men and rolling-mill men?
A. Not until after the railroad strike occurred.
Q. Another strike preceding that?
A. I have no recollection of any; no, sir. Not a matter of recent date. There may have been some local strikes about here, or some local difficulties, as is frequently the case. Sometimes there would be a strike at one mine because of some local difficulty. That won't affect the general region, whatever. That is frequently the case.
Q. What is the general custom of the men that strike? Is it their custom, when they quit work, to prevent other men from working?
A. Almost universally so.
Q. And by what means?
A. By intimidation of various sorts. Doing it at their houses mainly?
Q. Threatening them?
A. While the miners were idle, it has been the practice, heretofore, in this valley, for pump men to continue at work through the strike. I have never known a case but where they were stopped. In this case—I can speak positively to this one fact—that at one of the collieries that I have charge of, the pump men were visited by a crowd of men at night and threatened, and ordered to stop. This I have from the men themselves.
Q. Threatened with what?
A. Threatened with violence—to be beaten—forced out, if they didn't stop. The men, in this particular case, requested to remain until morning, and not to drop everything, and leave it unprotected. In the morning they were so badly frightened that they refused to continue at work. Then there was no recourse but either to let the mines fill, or to get other parties to work in their places.
Q. What means were resorted to prevent men from working that wished to work?
A. By beating them, going to their houses, and threatening them, sometimes, sending communications—sometimes are ornamented with cross-bones, and coffins, and pistols, and skulls.
Q. Drawings on paper?
A. Enough to frighten them. Sometimes men desire to be intimidated that way, as an excuse. I think so, many times.
Q. Have any of those threats ever been carried out?
A. Yes. Men have frequently been beaten.
Q. And killed?
A. I cannot re-call of any cases here, where men have been killed.
Q. Driven away by force?
A. Yes, sir. In this case of our colliery, the house of the man who was working as a pump-man—he had been working in the mines for years—been foreman at one time—his house—his house was visited twice, pistol shots fired into it, stones thrown at it, he was stoned and forced from his work; and another man, who was working with me was stoned, his house was stoned several times by parties, in the night. Who they were, we cannot tell, of course.
Q. Where men didn't obey the advice of those men that threatened them, was it generally followed by violence?
A. It very frequently has been.
Q. Has it been generally followed by violence, so far as your observation and knowledge extends?
A. No, sir; I wouldn't say generally, because threats have been so common. I could hardly say it was general; but, as a rule, men have been intimidated by the threats.
Q. I want to know whether, where they didn't obey the commands of these men that made the threats, and didn't cease work, whether that was generally followed by violence?
A. That is a very general question.
Q. So far as your observation extends?
A. I wouldn't say generally; no, sir; I would say that it has been frequently followed by violence.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Have you seen any of the threatening letters—letters with coffins, &c., on them?
A. Oh, yes.
Q. Been shown you by the men?
A. Yes. I have sometimes taken them off the works.
Q. Taken them off—how?
A. Found them posted up; because where they had been posted up, they had been so frightened by them, that they wouldn't go in—wouldn't go to work for a day or two, until they got over the strike. I have some of them. I think I could scare up a few.
Q. In our examination we have had a good many terms we are not familiar with, and I don't know but what we ought to have some definition of them. For instance, blacklegs?
A. A blackleg, as I understand it, is generally applied to a man who takes another man's place. This I understand to apply to a man who, when one man strikes, another goes in and takes his place; but it is just as commonly applied to those who continue at work, and will not go on a strike—they are denominated blacklegs. That was so in this case.
Q. Have you any scabs in this county?
A. I don't think that is used much about the mines. I have heard that applied to shoe-makers more than any one else. That is, fellows who were wandering about, without any settled place.
L. C. Bortree, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State where you reside, Mr. Bortree?
A. I reside in the Ninth ward of the city of Scranton.
Q. What is your business?
A. I am going to be a farmer on Tuesday next. I am not doing anything now.
Q. What were you doing on the 1st August last?
A. Special policeman.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Of the city of Scranton—of the mayor?
A. Yes, sir; under the mayor.
Q. State where you were on the morning of the 1st August, when the men came from the silk-works into the shops, driving the employés out of the shops?
A. Allow me to state it as it was.
Q. In brief?
A. I was here on duty on the upper end of this avenue during the night of the last of July or the 1st of August. I had permission of the chief of police to leave here at five o'clock. Well, I did. During this time there was a fire at what was said to be the Pennsylvania railroad, No. 5. I went out and returned about ten o'clock. I called in to the coal and iron company's store up here, to get a rubber overcoat, with the intention of going home. While I was there, Mr. W. W. Scranton, says to me—I used to be deputy sheriff, was deputy sheriff for the past twelve years, off and on, at this end of the county. I had nothing else from the 24th of November, 1871, till the 12th April, 1878.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Just come to the facts?
A. I stopped there and I went up and looked through a field-piece, and saw a large quantity of men.
Q. Field-glass?
A. Field-glass. I came down, just at the time I came from the building, some one said, that the mayor had sent for his posse. I supposed I was one, as I was a special police. W. W. Scranton gives me a gun, and he said, "Let's form this line." Well, I did. I said to him, "Scranton, I am as well known in this city as you are, and you take one end of the line and I will take the other." I fell back in the rear of the line, and Mr. Carl McKinney was my comrade. We started out of that store and came down, probably, two or three hundred feet, and I saw a man whom I thought I knew, on the opposite side.
Q. Come down where?
A. Come down this way.
Q. Lackawanna avenue?
A. Yes, sir; from the company's store. I was in the street railroad that passes here, on the opposite side of the track from here, and I saw this man drawing a revolver, and, I think, it was a four-barreled revolver, and he emptied that at me, at least I think he did. I carried my gun in that hand—my left hand—and taking this right hand I says, "For God's sake keep quiet." I came on a little further, about a hundred feet. Before we struck Washington avenue, stones and clubs were thrown. Bear in mind, I was in the rear end, and when we passed that there was some——
Q. Passed what?
A. Passed the avenue, on the edge of it—the upper edge. Say for instance, that was the first edge of Washington avenue, [illustrating.] this man McKinney was close by me. Sometimes I was ten feet from him, sometimes twelve. Just as I struck Washington avenue, there was a man asked me—came up to me and he says, "You son of a bitch, give me that gun." I says, "You can't have my gun." He fell back in the crowd and I heard some one—who it was I don't know—say, "Let's rally on them," or something to that effect. "They have nothing but blank cartridges." Another man, whom I knew, came up within ten or twelve feet of me, and he called me, "Sheriff, you son of a bitch, give me that gun." I says, "No, you can't have my gun; for God's sake get your people off these streets." Previous to this there was three or four shots from these men, who was a hundred feet before you strike Washington avenue. When we struck Washington avenue, there was one, two, or three—anyway that I know—I am sure of one that was shot.
Q. One man shot?
A. Not any one from us, sir——
By Mr. Means:
Q. That was before you passed Washington street?
A. Yes; there was from three to four before we struck Washington avenue, and I saw a man when he shot—from three to four shots—just above Monie & Pugh's store, on the right hand side of this avenue. We came down on the center of the avenue. Of course, I do not know how the front end of our squad was. Of course, we were two by two. As soon as we passed through, they closed up like this.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Behind you?
A. Yes, behind me.
Q. Behind the end, as they were marching along?
A. Yes; and I saw parties there whom I knew, and I says to them, "For God's sake, boys, get off the street." I crossed over the avenue. I was struck in the left arm, struck in the shoulder, and struck in the back of the neck.
Q. What with?
A. One was, I am sure, a piece of a shovel handle. I saw it coming. There was a stone thrown which struck a man right behind me by the name of—I can't tell you his name—he was up here at the company's store. When I saw it coming, I dodged it, and it went over me.
Q. Many stones thrown?
A. Stones, clubs, sticks, and everything that you might think of.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You have stated, I believe, that you did advise a crowd there and then to go to their respective homes?
A. I says, to leave the streets. There ain't a man in this room but what knows me. Then we came down after we crossed the avenue, and this man, McKinney, he was next to me—I saw a man on the left hand side, at what is called Slager's building, have a revolver at the corner of the building, and he shot, and about the time he shot, some of our vigilants, as they call them, shot, and it lasted for probably, about a minute, I do not think it lasted two minutes.
Q. What was the effect of the firing?
A. The effect of the firing, I saw three men lying dead then and there—I suppose they were dead. One on the right hand side, as you go up this way, his name was Dunlevy.
Q. Were there any other ones wounded?
A. I could not swear to that, any further than seeing a man carried up the avenue on a stretcher of some kind.
Q. Did the crowd disperse?
A. They did. They dispersed right away, as soon as the first volley. I think there was somebody fell.
Q. Did you fire?
A. I did, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did the man fall that you shot at?
A. I do not know that.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. I suppose you didn't shoot to waste your fire?
A. You heard what Mr. Scranton swore to.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there any firing after the crowd started to run?
A. Yes; there was. I saw a gentleman in this crowd that came near blowing my ear off, and while going—we had breach loaders.
Q. After the crowd started to run, did they fire?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was he with the crowd?
A. No; he belonged to the posse.
Q. He fired after the crowd started.
A. Yes; and then he loaded again, and it went off again, and I then told him not to put any more in that gun. It was accidental shooting. It was done all within a half second from the time that the first shot was fired. I do not think the shooting from the vigilants, as they term us, and I was the last man in the crowd—and I don't think it lasted one minute.
Q. All the firing?
A. From the time the vigilants opened fire until it had ceased.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you know the leader of this crowd?
A. I know two gentleman in that crowd, two that I supposed——
Q. Did you know them to be the leaders of that crowd or mob?
A. I know there was men in that crowd that said, "Boys, come on."
Q. I want to know this: if you know the leader of that crowd?
A. I should say I did.
Q. Were they railroad employés, were they colliers, or what were they?
A. I could not say the position they held in life.
Q. You have stated in your evidence, that you had told this crowd to disperse and go to their homes—what was their reply?
A. They said, "You sons of bitches, we will take your guns from you and we will clean the avenue." Whether the man I spoke to said it or some one else, I cannot say. There was lots of clubs thrown about this time, and stones. I was struck two or three times myself.
Q. In your evidence, you have said that they attempted or asked you to take your gun—who was the party that done that?
A. That question I don't propose to answer.
Q. I insist on it?
A. I will not answer that question.
Q. Did they belong to the rioters?
A. I object to answering to that.
Q. The man was one of the rioters—this party that tried to take your gun?
A. He is a man that asked me to take my gun.
Q. Did he belong to the rioter party?
A. He did.
At this point the committee adjourned, to meet at the call of the chair.
Pittsburgh, April 6, 1878.
The sub-committee on railroad riot met at the Orphans' court room at ten o'clock, A.M. Mr. Reyburn in the chair. Present, Messrs. Reyburn, Torbert, Yutzy, Englebert, and Means.
David A. Stewart, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you live, Mr. Stewart?
A. I live on Homewood avenue, Pittsburgh.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am president of the Pittsburgh Locomotive Works and Columbia Oil Company.
Q. Were you present on the 19th of July, the breaking out or first commencement of the riot?
A. The 19th. That was Thursday, was not it?
Q. Yes?
A. I was in the city on Thursday.
Q. Will you be kind enough just to make a statement, in your own way, of what you know of the occurrences of that day?
A. The only excitement that I saw was on the street, but on Friday morning when I came into the city—I live six miles out—in the city limits—but six miles from the neighborhood—I understood Mr. Cassatt was there, and I went to see him, and say to him that the city of Pittsburgh was very poorly off for police—one hundred odd men having been discharged—and suggested that he would get the mayor to employ those that had been discharged, and guarantee the payment of their wages, to protect the property of the company and the peace of the city, which he agreed to do. He said he did not know Mayor McCarthy, and I offered to take him down and introduce him. He started to go, and then was called back on some other business, and could not go, and requested me to take a carriage and go down and see the mayor, and bring him up if I could. I took a carriage and went down, and met the mayor on the steps of the city hall; went up to him and said to him I had been sent down by Mr. Cassatt, who would like very much to see him, and I offered a carriage, and asked him if he would come along up and see Mr. Cassatt. He said he would not; he would not have anything to do with it, the whole matter had been taken out of his hands. That there was no necessity, he said, of bringing the military here, that he could have allayed this whole thing if it had been left in his hands. I asked him if he would see Mr. Cassatt, if I would bring him down. He says, "No; I will have nothing to do with him," and he turned on his heel and left, and did not wait to hear the proposition. I did not make the proposition, because he would not wait to hear anything.
Q. Did you see the mayor himself?
A. The mayor himself, on the steps of the city hall, and he saw the carriage there ready, right in front of him, to take him to the depot, if he had gone. This was on Friday morning.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you go back and report to Mr. Cassatt?
A. I went back and reported to Mr. Cassatt that he had declined to see me—to come to see him, or to see him.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you acquainted with the Mayor?
A. Oh, I know him. Not intimately. Have been in his office frequently before. I think he knew me, too.
Q. Have you any knowledge of any steps taken by the mayor to preserve the peace?
A. Not at that time. He declined then. He said the matter had been taken out of his hands, and he would not do anything.
Q. Do you know of his having taken any step at any time?
A. Well, after that—after the fire on Sunday, I saw him then with a lot of police, bringing some men from the Brownsville boat, or Connellsville road, or somewhere along there—after the fire on Sunday. I was not in town on Sunday, owing to an article in the Globe that Thomas A. Scott was at my house directing affairs from there. Having my family over there, I expected a lot of those men out there. I was at my house in East Liberty, around about the stock-yards, all day on Sunday.
Q. You say there was an article in the Globe newspaper published here?
A. On Sunday morning.
Q. That Thomas A. Scott was at your house?
A. Directing affairs from there.
Q. Was Mr. Scott there?
A. He was not there at any time during the riot. Was not there before the riot, nor has he been there since.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did the mayor say to you who had taken this matter out of his hands—what authority had taken it out of his hands?
A. I do not think he said what authority. He said the whole matter had been taken out of his hands.
Q. Did not say who did it?
A. No; he may have stated the sheriff, but I am not sure about that—stated he would have nothing to do with it.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where were you on Saturday? Where are your works located?
A. Our works are located in Allegheny, but my office is on Sixth street. I was not up about on Saturday. I was at the Union depot about the time the firing commenced at Twenty-eighth street, and I went out on the first train to home; but after the train could get through, and come up as far as the yard, it was stopped at the yard, owing to the troubles at Twenty-eighth street, and I suppose we were there half an hour. I was not at Twenty-eighth street at the time of the firing. I saw great crowds of people around the tracks as our train got through.
Q. Did the crowd seem excited?
A. Oh, yes; close up to the tracks along on both sides. That was after the first volley had been fired. There was no firing at the time I went through there. That was about five o'clock in the evening.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you about the Fort Wayne depot during Saturday or Sunday?
A. No, sir.
Q. Don't you know anything about the doings of the mob down there?
A. I was not in town on Sunday at all. I saw the troops there at the passenger depot at one o'clock that day, when the Philadelphia troops arrived there, when they were taking their lunch at the Union depot.
Q. Were you over in Allegheny at any time during the trouble?
A. No, sir; not at all during the trouble.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you apply to any of the other officials—sheriff or any other authorities?
A. No; I did not. I am not connected with the railroad in any way, except I am director in the Allegheny Valley road. I talked to Mr. McCargo about him applying, but he thought it was not any use, after the refusal to Mr. Cassatt.
Q. After the mayor refused?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What was the nature of that editorial in the Globe—was it inflammatory?
A. It was not an editorial; it was a local notice, stating that Thomas A. Scott was at the house of his nephew, D. A. Stewart, on Penn avenue, and directing affairs from there. That was to create excitement. There was more inflammatory articles in the extra of the Critic issued on Sunday.
Q. The Globe was a Sunday paper also?
A. The Globe was a Sunday paper also.
By Mr. Means:
Q. What was the tenor of that article in the Critic—to excite?
A. To excite the populace.
Q. Or to allay the excitement?
A. I think it was signed "Thirty Thousand Citizens," calling for a meeting at city hall, on Sunday, at one o'clock. If I remember, the tenor was to put down the railroad men, and all that sort of thing.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Put down the strikers?
A. Tom Scott and the balance of them.
By Mr. Means:
Q. The railroad officials?
A. The better plan is to get the article itself, instead of letting me describe it.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was this in the Critic or Globe?
A. In the extra of the Critic, on Sunday. The Critic had a regular edition, and afterwards issued an extra that was distributed about noon, or during the forenoon.
Q. Is there anything else that you know in regard to the riots that would be of interest to us?
A. I do not know anything directly. You know, I was about East Liberty on Sunday, and there is nothing that would be evidence. I saw the troops there, and I went to the general, and got him to distribute a guard around the stock-yards and Penn avenue, and made suggestions of that kind.
Q. Did the troops preserve order there?
A. Everything was very quiet there on Sunday, about East Liberty.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you have any conversation with Tom Scott or Mr. Cassatt in regard to this matter, except what you have stated about the mayor furnishing police, or anything that would have any tendency to put down this riot?
A. I don't remember now of any. I heard rumors that were current, of one kind and another, which I would not consider as evidence. I heard Mayor McCarthy made such and such speeches, but I don't know who from. That would not be evidence.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the conduct of the troops out at East Liberty, those that come under your observation?
A. They were very orderly and behaved. They had nothing to do, specially, there. I saw them have their drill there on Sunday evening. General White's troops were up above Torrens, and I applied to him first about having this guard placed along Penn avenue. At first there was no guard there, and there was danger of men coming out and setting fire to the stock-yards; and I applied to him, and he said General Gallagher was the officer in command, and I applied to General Gallagher, and he said he would have it attended to. I went back in a couple of hours, and it still was not done, but he did have it done that afternoon. I saw there was danger, and it might create a great deal of trouble, but they had a guard placed all along Penn avenue, and also requested that there should be a guard put at the lower end of the yard, the upper end of the tracks, to keep persons from going there, except what was necessary on business, which they did. I was in the telegraph office, and heard the reports about the wreck of that stock train.
By Mr. Means:
Q. The disposition of the troops was to maintain order?
A. There was no difficulty, particularly. I think everything was quiet about East Liberty and about the stock-yards on that day—on Sunday.
Q. They were ready to do their duty?
A. Ready to do their duty.
Joseph Thomas, sworn:
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside, Mr. Thomas?
A. Reside at No. 117, Bluff street, Sixth ward, Pittsburgh.
Q. Were you the coroner at the time of the riots in July last?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Will you be kind enough to state to the committee the number of persons killed during those riots that came within your official knowledge?
A. There was twenty-two that was killed, and there was two that died from wounds. One was Lieutenant Ash, of Philadelphia, and a man by the name of Evans, that was wounded on Sunday morning, and died afterwards. They had amputated his limbs, and he died. I took his deposition.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was he a soldier?
A. No; a citizen shot in the neighborhood of Thirty-seventy street on that Sunday morning. That is all I have any account of altogether.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What were those—citizens?
A. There was four soldiers—four Philadelphia soldiers, altogether, counting Ash. One of our soldiers that belongs around here, and the others were all citizens. That would be five, counting Ash, that I held an inquest on.
Q. What were the occupations of those men that were killed? Do you remember?
A. I think that I have got a list down there, if it has not been mislaid. There was some of all kinds, painters—some railroad men among them, there was some rolling-mill men, I think—yes, I know of one. I did have a list of them.
Q. Could you give the committee a list of the killed, with a statement——
A. Statement on my docket? I could. I had a list made out, which I gave the grand jury. I don't know what they did with it.
Q. We would like to have the list of killed from your docket?
A. Yes, and the place they were killed?
Q. Yes?
A. And their occupation?
Q. Yes; just a description of them, so that the committee can file them in their report. Where were those men killed?
A. The majority of them were killed in the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street, and some were killed about the corner of Twenty-sixth or Twenty-seventh. That was during Sunday morning—Saturday night.
Q. During the time the troops were in the round-house?
A. Yes, sir. This one soldier that belongs here, he was shot up on the hill. I had been out in Sharpsburg that afternoon, and was within a couple of squares at the time of the firing. I could see him laying up on the hill from Liberty street.
Q. You speak of this man Evans having made a deposition?
A. He was shot right in the neighborhood of Thirty-seventh street.
Q. He was further out on Penn avenue?
A. Yes, sir; that was on the road that the troops retreated on. Butler street there was another—a saloon-keeper shot pretty near the same place. This man Evans' deposition, as near as I can remember, was, that he was engaged in the Valley round-house, taking charge of the engines, and running them in, and he had got done work, and went down to see about some relatives of his—went down street apiece, and saw the troops coming, and he turned off and went around the corner and waited until they passed, he said that after they went apiece, he followed them up on his way home. He was shot in the ankle.
Q. That was on Sunday morning?
A. Yes, sir; that saloon-keeper—he was shot at his own door, and there was a man that was carried in Doctor Robinson's—I don't remember his name, but I can give it to you—was shot just about a square above that. He was a plasterer.
Q. Did you have a physician to make a post mortem examination of the dead?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. What appeared to be the nature of the injuries of the soldiers that were killed? Did they appear to be wounded from rifle bullets or pistol bullets?
A. They appeared to be mostly gun-shot wounds. There was one of them had a hole you could pretty near put your fist through. It was where a ball came out. It appeared like a minie-ball. There were two soldiers. They were laid out by Mr. Devore. By the time I got there, he had them fixed up to be shipped, and he could give you a description of their wounds.
Q. Joseph?
A. Mr. Devore, the undertaker; he got them in Lawrenceville. He had them fixed up at the time I got to see them, and he could give you a description of them.
Q. Did you think they were all gun-shot wounds?
A. All gun-shot wounds, except one.
Q. Rifle of large caliber?
A. Yes. Well, these minie-ball are not a very big ball, but they make an ugly wound sometimes.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. I suppose the Senator means that they were not pistol shots?
A. No; I feel confident they were gun-shot wounds.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The wounds of how many men did you examine—of the soldiers?
A. These two in Devores. I don't know whether I examined the wounds or not. Mr. Devore would know. The other one up here I did. It was a very big wound. He was killed about Thirty-third street.
Q. A citizen?
A. No; he was a soldier. I think he had two wounds in him.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Was he a Philadelphia soldier?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were there any women and children killed?
A. I didn't see any. There were rumors around the streets Saturday afternoon that there was, but I didn't see any.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. You held no inquest upon any children or women?
A. No, sir; there were places pointed out to me Saturday where there had been women or children shot, but I didn't hear anything of it afterwards.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Have no knowledge of any being killed—children or women?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Have you any information, or did you see any of the occurrences on Saturday—Sunday that would be? You are county officer—are you a county officer?
A. Yes, sir. I was about two squares from the firing at the time it commenced, coming down Liberty street. I think I was up about Thirty-first street, about three squares.
Q. Coming this way?
A. Yes, sir; coming this way. I went up along Liberty street in the afternoon about two o'clock, and I was in a buggy when the firing commenced, about three squares up Liberty street from Twenty-eighth street. I could see the people up on the hill from where I was, the dust rising when the balls would strike. I was not near enough to recognize anybody.
Q. State how many you know of having been wounded?
A. Three.
Q. What were they?
A. One was a Philadelphia soldier.
Q. Where was he wounded?
A. He was wounded, I think, in this side, [indicating left side.]
Q. Which side?
A. I think on the left side.
Q. Where—what part of the city?
A. He was wounded out in the neighborhood of Thirty-seventh or Thirty-eighth streets.
Q. Was his a gun-shot wound?
A. I think it was a pistol shot.
Q. What were the others?
A. The others appeared to me like a pistol shot. This boy Jones, he was there in the hospital. He was shot in that place. His wound appeared like a pistol-shot wound. He was shot about the forks of the road. That would be, I suppose, Thirty-fifth street, maybe. Then there was another man by the name of Scott that was wounded in the leg. I didn't see his wound.
Mayor Phillips, sworn:
By Mr. Means:
Q. I would like to ask you one question. The committee would like to know, or I would, at least, if you put Allegheny City into the hands of this man Ammon, and if so, what you told him?
A. Put Allegheny city into the hands of Ammon?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Emphatically, no! I never put anything into the hands of Ammon.
Q. Did you tell him to take charge of the lower part of Allegheny City?
A. I did not, sir.
Q. Did you tell him to resist any arrest that might be attempted to be made upon him?
A. Positively, no! I will tell you what I did say. When I went, I found there were five or six hundred men, and my force was very small and I cautioned them to be careful what they are doing, that they would get themselves into trouble, there is danger ahead, and says I, "Be careful what you are doing." That was the sum and substance of what I said. I cautioned Ammon, and it turns out there were three or four of my officers heard me say so. The chief of police is here now, if you would like to have him corroborate it.
Q. Do you know of any official communication that Ammon had with the railroad officials?
A. I do not, sir.
Q. Do you know of any communication at all that he had with them?
A. Hearsay, sir. I know nothing of my own knowledge—only heard it indirectly, from some person to me, that he had something from J. D. Layng.
Q. He did not tell you himself?
A. No, sir.
Q. Saw no telegram from Mr. Layng to him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Robert Ammon during the time he had charge of that railroad—the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. Yes, sir; I had conversation—at the time he had charge?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. I did not know that he had charge. He was there.
Q. Did he tell you at any time that one of your police officers attempted to arrest him, and he refused to be arrested?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know of the fact that one of your police officers attempted to arrest him?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you, at any time, attempt to arrest Ammon—any of your officers?
A. Afterwards. Will I give you the particulars of that, sir—the time that I went down with the policemen to protect that ten miles of freight, and again to bring up the first lot.
Q. What day was that?
A. I cannot tell you.
Q. That was after the riot?
A. Several days.
Q. I mean the Friday morning when the trouble first commenced in Allegheny?
A. It was Thursday or Friday before the troubles over here—Thursday or Friday. You asked me about something on Friday?
Q. Yes?
A. No. I only went down there at that time. I think that is the only time I ever saw him, except after that, the day he was arrested.
Q. Did he tell you that one of your officers had attempted to arrest him, and he refused to submit, because he had not a warrant?
A. No; I don't remember that—because he hadn't a warrant. No, sir. I never heard of this thing, either through Ammon or the policeman. I know nothing of it at all. I don't believe it.
Q. Do you remember Ammon telling you this?
A. No; I do not.
Q. That you said in reply that that was right, and for him to go ahead?
A. That's stuff. That ain't my style.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Allow no man to arrest him?
A. Oh, no, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. At any time sent policemen to arrest Mr. Ammon, in preserving the peace?
A. I sent police down. I sent a note over to—I am not sure whether I sent the note over to see John McCauley, and he needed protection away down the road. I understood that the men would protect the property as long as they could, and when they were worn out and weary, they would send me word, and I would put out a police force to protect the city. This was several days after that. I did so. I sent them ten or twelve miles down the road. I had no authority to do it with the city police, but they agreed to pay, and have since paid, an improvised police force.
Q. The railroad men, although they were on a strike, did they show any disposition to be riotous or lawless, and destroy property?
A. Not at all, sir. They told me at this Sunday meeting, that they would do all they could to protect the property until the matters were settled in regard to wages, or something, with the company.
Q. Did you have any information, or make any arrests of them—interfere with them?
A. No, sir. They said some of the trains were going through which were stopped. I didn't make any arrest before. I cautioned them prudence and carefulness, and the danger and the risk they were running. The men pledged me what they would do to protect the property, and they did it manfully. One night they came up and said they were worn out, and I had the promise of a hundred men to come down from off the hill, and the men didn't come, and one of the messengers came from the railroad men, and I told him I was very sorry, I had been promised one hundred men, and they didn't come, and I would have to ask them to go back again that night, and they did it, though worn out, with a positive assurance from me that I would see that they were relieved the next day.
Q. Those were railroad men?
A. Those were railroad men.
Q. Ammon applied to you for assistance?
A. I never saw Ammon, but that one day.
Q. Never applied to you for assistance at all?
A. No, sir; I don't believe he did.
W. D. Ross, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Allegheny City.
Q. What was your occupation in July last?
A. I was chief of police.
Q. Of Allegheny City?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you present during the conversation between Mayor Phillips and Robert Ammon, or Boss Ammon, or Bob Ammon, or whatever his name is?
A. I was present a part of the time. I was not there all of the time.
Q. Be kind enough to state what your recollection of the occurrence is?
A. Well, I was on the scene of action down there before Mayor Phillips came—had been called down. I think I was in Pittsburgh when the word came to the office that they wanted some men down to help disperse this riot—preventing cars from going out, and, I think, took fourteen or fifteen men down, and found a large crowd. I suppose there was two hundred or two hundred and fifty persons there, with an apparent determination to prevent the cars from going out, and showing the disposition manifested by them. They were armed with links and coupling pins, and a great many of them had clinkers. I saw that they were determined to make resistance, and I talked to Mr. Ross, the dispatcher, and told him to send down a car, and see if they could get through. I told Ammon we had come there for the purpose of stopping any violence that might be offered to the railroad employés, and we were informed that a crowd was there to offer resistance, from this side of the river—from Pittsburgh. His answer was, "Not a God damn bit of it." He says, "We are all employés of the Fort Wayne road. We have been discharged from the employment, and there are no Pittsburghers here, and we don't intend to let one pound of freight go out of this yard until our terms were complied with." And when I told him it was a pretty high-handed measure, or something like that, to take possession of the railroad and its property, and they would get into trouble, "Well," he said, "we might just as well die here as be starved to death," and he told me that they had this thing organized all over the country. It was not confined to Pittsburgh. It was North, South, East and West, and he had been in possession of the facts; and, says he, "I could stop it as quick as that," snapping his fingers, "by telegraphic dispatch that our terms are complied with." I had instructed a dispatch man to send down a locomotive and cars, and see if they could pass us, and when the cars came down Ammon stopped it, says, "Now is our time to strike," and he stepped up in front. The whole crowd rushed with him. They stopped the cars and mounted the locomotive, about two or three with him, and ordered them to return to the yard. They had no business coming out, and they reversed their engine and went back, and I saw there was no use in attempting to make an arrest. There was ten to one against us, and as determined to not be arrested as we would be to arrest them. When the cars ran back, I says, "Now, Ammon, you have taken possession of the road by violence, and we don't want to offer any resistance. The question will be determined by law whether you are going to hold it, or whether the railroad company is entitled to it." I thought the best way was to act with persuasion, and, says I, "You will be held responsible. If you have any right to do this, it will be a matter to be determined by law. We don't want to see any violence offered." I told Ross that I did not think it was worth our while to attempt to arrest them.
Q. Told whom?
A. Ross, the dispatcher in the yard. While we were talking about it, Mayor Phillips came down, and I went over to talk to the mayor. I left Ammon, and I think I remarked to the mayor that we were not able to do anything, and then Ammon came up and began to talk with him. The mayor told him he had need to look out, he would get into trouble. Something of that kind, that was the remark I heard. The mayor talked to him, that it was a high-handed measure, or something of that kind—I could not say positively what—something to that effect. I heard Ammon say he could not help it. He had told the mayor about the same as he told me, that he was in possession of the knowledge of the whole fact—how it was got up. He went to talk to him and I left them, and I left them while Ammon was relating his connection with the matter.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear the mayor tell Ammon that he should have charge of the lower part of the city of Allegheny?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear him tell him to resist any person that should attempt to arrest him?
A. No.
Q. Did not hear a conversation of that kind?
A. No; I talked to Ammon, and told him that he would be arrested; said I, "It is only a matter of time."
Q. You told Ammon he would be arrested?
A. I told him that he would be arrested. That it was only a matter of time. We didn't want any property destroyed, if we could prevent it.
Q. What was Ammon's reply to you when you told him he would be arrested?
A. He said he would die before he would be arrested—that was his determination, he said. It was a matter of life and death with the men, and they were willing to stand out—have their terms complied with before they would surrender.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you or any one else attempt to arrest him at any time during the riot?
A. No; I don't think we did do anything of the kind. I was down several times and saw them still in force there, but my object was more by persuasion to keep them from committing any overt acts of violence, further than to stop trains. I did not want to see any property destroyed or any lives lost, and I knew that the best policy was to counsel peace and keep from getting into a fight with so small a force as we had. There were more than twenty, I suppose, to one of us, and then, besides that, they had the sympathy of a number of the men that were with us—probably of our police officers. It was with a good deal of difficulty that they would even consent to go down. I had to threaten to put them off the force, but I concluded we had better counsel peace, and keep from getting into trouble with them by arresting them.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear any of the citizens have any conversation with the men when you were there, counseling them to hold it?
A. I did hear one of the citizens.
Q. Just state to this committee what that citizen said to Mr. Ammon?
A. That was a man by the name of Hahn. He made a remark of this kind; says he: "The railroad men are right." That was in Ammon's presence. I don't know whether he directed his remarks to Ammon or to me. Says he, "The railroad operators are right, and I will give as much as I can afford to sustain them and help them hold out."
Q. What did you say that man's name was?
A. His name is Hahn. He is a grocer.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say he has a grocery store?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where?
A. Down in the Sixth ward of Allegheny City. That was the only remark that I heard.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Do you know of any understanding between the railroad officials and this man Ammon, that he should run that railroad in their interest?
A. No, sir; I was down there—I won't be too certain what morning it was. They had taken possession of the telegraph office.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. The strikers had?
A. The strikers had, and there appeared to be an arrangement to operate. The company wanted to put one operator in, and Mr. Ross was negotiating with a party—wanted to put in an operator to act in concert with the others, that all telegraphic dispatches that should come over the line might be under the supervision of the two, and the company would select one and they the other. That what business was done, running what little freight was allowed to come through the telegraph wires, would not be obstructed. And Ammon made that proposition. He got up on a barrel or bench of some kind at the telegraph office, and to the crowd he stated what proposition was made to them, that the railroad company wanted to put another man to operate along with others.
Q. In concert with the other operator?
A. Yes; and says he, "This is the proposition. Now we have got the matter in charge ourselves, and I think we are able to run it. We don't need the assistance of the railroad company." Says he, "It is for the men here to say whether they will accede to this proposition or not. For my part, I think we can control it ourselves, and if the strikers are in favor of accepting the proposition they would signify it by saying aye." They took a vote, and there was nobody said aye, and they took the negative, and they all cried no. He appeared to have control of the thing, and was running it, and all he had to do was to suggest or intimate what was desired, and they were ready to vote it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Ammon and his party—did he accept the proposition from the railroad officials that they should have an operator?
A. No, sir; they would not accept it. They had the matter in charge, he said, and they would not accept it. They voted it down.
Q. Did Ammon say to this crowd, which he appeared to be a leader of—boss of—anything about the railroad officials asking him to run that road, take charge of it, and turn over the earnings of the railroad—railroad officials?
A. No; not that I heard of.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You speak of a proposition made by the railroad officials. Who made this proposition?
A. Well, it was Mr. Ross. That was their wanting to send some dispatches along on the road. Mr. Ross was dispatcher of the road, and they had taken possession of the railroad and telegraph office belonging to the road, and, as I understood it, put a telegraph operator of their own in there.
Q. Did he make this proposition of his own accord, or by the authority of the officials of the railroad company?
A. I could not say. I just said what Ammon said. Ammon mounted a bench, and he said the railroad company had made this proposition. Now, says he, "We have got charge of the concern, and we are capable of running it."
Q. Did you hear Mr. Ross make any proposition at all?
A. No, sir; It was Ammon's own statement.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did Ross have any conversation with you as chief of police in regard the situation of things there?
A. Yes, sir. He wanted me to do all I could to keep matters quiet—keep them from committing any overt acts of violence, if I could.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was there any disposition on the part of these men expressed to destroy property?
A. Well, I could not say that there was after I talked to them. The mayor had talked to them, &c. We counseled peace, and Ammon said, says he, "All that I am afraid of—we are going to hold the property. We will take care of it, we will protect it." I told him he was responsible for it. If he let it be destroyed the responsibility would rest upon him. I wanted to reason with him, as I seen he had control of the affairs.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Wanted him to realize the situation?
A. Realize the situation they were in, and make a more weighty responsibility on them, for having taken it by force, if they would let it be destroyed. I told him so. Says he, "All I am afraid of is, when the hands stop work, they will hang around these damned doggeries and get drunk, and come in here and create a disturbance, and lead the thing into trouble." Says he, "If we just stopped them, I would not be a bit afraid of any property being burned." I told them they had just as good a right to stop doggeries as they had to stop a railroad, the rule would work both ways. If you could take possession of one class of property, why not take possession of the other. I talked with them, and I concluded I would go around and notify the saloons to stop myself. I saw it was the best we could do under the circumstances, and we did notify them, and they obeyed and stopped until the next Monday or Tuesday afterwards. I used a little strategy with them. I told them the mayor had instructed me to stop them, and under the law if they did anything to aid, abet, or encourage riot, they were responsible; that the sale of liquor might have that tendency, and they appeared to be cautious, and shut up their places.
Q. They shut up because you told them the mayor had ordered them; it was not this Boss Ammon?
A. No, sir; it was not Boss Ammon, it was Mayor Phillips and me had talked about that, and thought best to keep down riot in every form we could, under the excited state of affairs.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did Ammon and his men who were acting in concert with them, make any effort to compel saloons from selling whisky?
A. No, sir; I don't think he did anything at all in the matter.
Q. You say that Mr. Ammon remarked, that he could stop all this rioting and strike by a single dispatch, if their terms were complied with. Did he say what those terms were?
A. He was going on to state the terms at the time Mayor Phillips came down, and the mayor arriving there he hadn't got through with his statement. So far as his statement to me was concerned it was, that the men that had been discharged would all be returned to their positions again, and re-instated at the old wages, that double-headers should be taken off—he was going on making a statement of this kind when Mayor Phillips arrived and interrupted him. I don't know what all he would have stated. It was a part of it, that the men should all be re-instated that had been discharged, at their former wages, with an assurance that they would remain, and double-headers taken off the road.
Q. Did your force act in concert with the strikers in protecting the property of the Fort Wayne railroad?
A. We acted under the advice of Mayor Phillips, and we acted in concert, as a matter of course, in protecting property. We sent down men to watch the property and to keep it from being stolen.
Q. You assisted the railroad strikers, or they did so, in protecting the property?
A. They appeared to exercise a guard over it for one or two nights. I guess we had taken charge of the freight trains and set a watch over them, and then, when they gave them up we took charge of them. We sent police down, thirty or forty police, along the road where they had run them out to watch the property, and to keep it from being stolen and carried away.
Q. Was it a general understanding between your police force and these railroad men that you would assist each other in stopping any violence or destruction of property?
A. After they had——
Q. Taken possession of it?
A. Yes; there was an understanding, so far as I understood the situation of the case, the property had to be protected, and they were not able to protect it themselves, and they could not stand it, and when they were not able we protected it, and we had policemen down there by direction of the railroad company, to watch the property also. Under the circumstances we were placed in, we were disposed to do the best we could.
Q. Regardless of who it was that helped to protect the property?
A. Yes; that was the way I understand it.
Q. Coöperate with anybody that was peaceably inclined to assist you?
A. Exactly; and let the consequences follow.
At this point the sub-committee adjourned, until three o'clock, this afternoon.
Pittsburgh, April 6, 1878.
The sub-committee met at three o'clock, at the orphan's court room, pursuant to adjournment. Mr. Reyburn in the chair. Present, Messrs. Reyburn, Torbert, Yutzy, and Englebert.
John I. Nevin, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where is your residence and what is your occupation?
A. My residence is Sewickley, and editor of the Leader.
Q. Were you editor of the Leader at the time of the railroad strike in July last?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you editor from the 19th to the 24th July?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Be kind enough to look at these papers during that time, and see if they are your——
A. If I was editor.
Q. Take from the 19th of July on, and take the editorials—whether they were your articles?
Witness identifies editorial headed "Talk of the Desperate," July 20; also, editorial headed "No Violence." July 21; also, editorial headed "Fatal Rashness," July 22; also, editorial headed "Law and Order," second edition, July 23.
The editorials are as follows:
[Leader, July 20.]
The Talk of the Desperate.
"This may be the beginning of a great civil war in this country, between labor and capital, that is bound to come. It only needs that the strikers at Martinsburg, or here, or elsewhere, should boldly attack and rout the troops sent to quell them—and they could easily do it if they tried—to set the spark to the magazine, and the explosion would follow at once. The workingmen everywhere, and of all classes of trade, are in the fullest sympathy with the strikers, and only waiting to see whether they are in earnest enough to fight for their rights. They would all join and help them, the moment an actual conflict took place. Against such an uprising, what would capital have to oppose? The militia? Why, have not we seen how the militia at Martinsburg fraternized with the mob; how at Wheeling only thirty men responded to the Governor's call to arms; how Mr. Garrett, in his appeal to the President, acknowledges that the militia is in such full sympathy with the strikers that they were of no use at all? And do not we see, to-day, in the ridiculous response to the calls upon the Grays to turn out—a corporal's guard—that the militia is of no more use here? The Governor, with his proclamations, may call and call, but the laboring people, who mostly constitute the militia, will not take up arms to put down their brethren. Will capital, then, rely on the United States army? Pshaw! These ten or fifteen thousand men, available men, would be swept from our path like leaves in the whirlwind. The workingmen of this country can capture and hold it, if they will only stick together, and it looks as if they were going to, this time, sure."
"Of course, as you say, the capitalists…. Many of the unemployed would be glad to get work as soldiers or extra policemen. The farmers, too, might turn out to preserve your 'law and order.' But the working army would have the most men and the best men. The war might be bloody, but right would prevail. Men like Tom Scott, Frank Thomson, yes, and William Thaw, who have got rich out of the stock-holders of railroads, so they cannot pay honest labor living rates, we would hang to the nearest tree. Honest incorporate management would be enforced, and labor would demand and receive its fair share of the profits that are made by means of it."