REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877. (continued 18)

Q. Was any attempt made to destroy the Duquesne depot?

A. I understand there was some arrests there. I was present at the mayor's office when a man was brought in there, and Doctor Dickson and some others testified that he was caught in the act.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Do you know anything about the events before the strike, the dispute between the railroad employés and the railroad company—the causes leading to these disturbances?

A. Nothing more than from general information, that it was because of reduction of wages, and that the men thought the reduction was more than they were willing to accept, and that it had eventuated in a strike. I understand from quite a number that they were not committing any violence. Mr. Shinn, vice president of the Allegheny Valley railroad, and Mr. McCargo, superintendent of the Allegheny Valley railroad, said to me just before the arrival of the Philadelphia regiment, that there was no effort made at all by the railroad strikers to prevent the running out of trains. I think I can recollect very nearly Mr. McCargo's words. Says he, "Mr. Park, you or I can get on a locomotive and run out any train, and nobody will disturb a hair of our heads." He then followed that up by saying the difficulty was to get anybody to go on to a locomotive.

Q. To man the train?

A. That understood the moving of a locomotive, and running a train out. After seeing Mr. Cassatt, after this interview with Mr. McCargo, I mentioned that to Mr. Cassatt, and he said their presence intimidated them, and he said they made no act of resistance; but their presence intimidated persons—that the strikers were on the ground or on the road, intimidating persons that would take out trains.

Q. Was any threats made by yourself and other citizens to prevent a collision between the military and the people? You related an interview with Mr. Cassatt. Was there any other threats made by citizens like yourself to prevent a collision?

A. I don't know of anything done in that way. I suppose persons would have felt that they were interfering. I felt a little in that way. When I was advising Mr. Cassatt, I felt that the State, or the railroad company, or one power, was directing that sheriff—somebody was directing the whole movement, and believed for me to give advice on that, probably it was a little premature, or at least Mr. Cassatt might have thought it was uncalled for, and I was greatly in fear that some stone might be thrown or pistol shot, and that the military might fire, and I felt sure the strength was not there if the mob was started—if a mob was precipitated upon the citizens of Pittsburgh, there was not military enough to put it down.

Q. Did you know that the trains had been stopped during Thursday and Friday?

A. Yes; I knew by general rumor, and was told by a great many that the Pennsylvania railroad were not able to operate.

Q. Why didn't you make a suggestion to the railroad officials sooner?

A. I never thought of doing it; but if I had thought of doing it, I would have thought that they might have told me to attend to my business, just as I would have done, if I had any difficulty at my works, and railroad men came to advise me—"you mind your own business, and I will attend to my strikers."

Q. In the suggestions that you made to Mr. Cassatt, did you suggest any plan to preserve the property and prevent its destruction from Saturday until Monday?

A. I said the better way would be to wait. I am not very clear in my recollection. I tried to fix it upon my memory, but it is a little misty just how I put that to Mr. Cassatt; but as near as I can recollect, it was like this—of course, in substance it would be the same—that Saturday was an idle day, and Sunday would be an idle day, and to-night these people would be in their beds and with the force he had—he said, I think, eight hundred men would be expected in momentarily—I said, as near as I can recollect, that to-night these people will be in their beds, and with the force you will have, take possession of your grounds, but don't attempt to move any train until Monday. I recollect very clearly impressing that upon him, not to move a train until Monday. I knew on Monday all the mills would be running and the men would be at their places, and if there was any little disturbance in the moving of trains, the civil authorities could manage it, even if the military didn't take any part in it.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. From your knowledge of the kind of people, did you regard it as necessary to call the military to suppress them?

A. No, sir; I didn't. I think it was a mistake, a very serious mistake. I knew that the day police of Pittsburgh had been discharged—that is, most of them, and that the mayor was left with a very small force, but I knew at the same time, that the class of men that was engaged by the railroad companies—they are a pretty intelligent set of men—they can be reasoned with, and if arrangements had been made to have had their ground protected by police, not allowing any one to come up Twenty-sixth or Twenty-eighth streets—done that at night, I don't think there would have been any trouble. I don't think any of those men that were termed strikers—I think they would have hardly violated the law in knocking down police, if the police had said the orders were that nobody was to come. I forgot to say that very soon after the firing, after I had warned these little crowds on Penn street to go into their houses, I went over to my mill—the mills generally stopped about half past three o'clock, sometimes as late as four o'clock, and I found that some of our men had been a good deal excited—one man had rushed into the office, and wanted to know from our time-keeper if his gun was at home. He told him he must not have his gun, must not attempt to go for it, because if he did he would alarm his wife, who was then sick, but he went for, and brought his gun back, and handed it to our time-keeper, and went out in the mill for something, and the time-keeper gave it to our manager, and he took it back in our office, and broke the stock of it, then our time-keeper bet five dollars with this man that he had not a gun, and the gun was brought in, and it was broke up, and this man rejoiced over it, and said he had been making a fool of himself, he was very glad he had come to his senses, and he didn't take time to reason, nor did, I think, any of these men. Their general life and their education and training has been more or less different from yours or mine. If your son had been in that crowd or your brother, and you had heard he was shot, you would have just done as I would have done, sat down and reasoned whether he had any business to be there, and you would not have run in and shot down Philadelphia soldiers, or any other soldiers. They just heard somebody was killed, and they rushed for arms, all being done on the impulse of the moment, and done in a way that you or I would not have done, because if my son had been there and shot, I would have lamented it terribly, but I would not have gone there with a pistol or gun. I would have reasoned, undoubtedly, as you would have done, that he had no business to be there, or ought to have been home. These men didn't reason in that way.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Have you not had quite a number of strikes among the employés in the mills or factories in this vicinity, during the last five or six years?

A. I can call to mind quite a number of them.

Q. You are a manufacturer?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Employ a large number of men, do you not, sir?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you ever had any strikes in your works?

A. Yes, a number.

Q. Did the strikers attempt to prevent other men from working, that you employed?

A. Not by force. I never knew of any attempt by force. They did it by persuasion. I have twenty odd men out now. My rule is never to take any man into my employ that has ever struck on me. I will keep them from starving, with money, but not with work. I don't think there is any occasion for a strike. We require notice, and we give notice, and let every man know that if he ever strikes, he never can work for us as long as God spares me on this earth. I will lend him money, or do anything for him, but he will never work for me.

Q. In the different strikes, in your works, was there ever any violence used by the strikers, to prevent men from working, you put in there?

A. I don't recollect of any cases.

Q. Did you ever have any difficulty in getting strikers quiet—dispersed from your works?

A. No, sir; they were always very quiet, and when told to leave—sometimes they were not inclined to go out, and they called to me and I requested them to go, spoke to them mildly about it, and told them that my rules were to be carried out. I did once have to bring in a policeman, but the man was very drunk and did not know what he was doing. I am satisfied that if he had been sober, he would have left the building without calling in a policeman.

Q. You have had strikes in the city where there have been a larger number engaged than in this?

A. Oh, yes; we have had strikes where the aggregate number would have amounted to many more than those engaged at the Pennsylvania Railroad Company's works. We have had ten strikes here.

Q. Was there any violence resulting from them at all?

A. No; I don't recollect only in the case of a strike on the part of the puddlers, probably about twenty-five years or so ago. There was some little trouble at Bailey's mill. They brought on some eastern puddlers, and when they attempted to start the furnaces—it was principally women, the wives of some of the men—they struck them with stones a little, and had some few knock-downs, but they soon quieted.

Q. Have you had any difficulties lately—any violence, that is the last few years?

A. No, sir; none at all.

Q. Have you not had a strike among your puddlers, within the last few years?

A. Yes; about two years and a half or three years ago, and I couldn't employ them again just for the reason that my rules were, that any man that strikes can never work for me again, and I thought, of course, as there were so many idle puddlers at that time, that I would have no trouble in starting up my puddling forge. A puddler came around and says, "I can get men and can start you puddling." Says I, "I would like very much to start." Says he, "I can get up a gang by Monday." Says he, "Did you have any trouble?" Says I, "Yes; they struck." Well, they wouldn't work. That lasted for three or four months, and I concluded that some determination had been agreed upon, that these men that struck, must work for me, and I determined they never would—I determined before we started up. I would lend them money at any time, but they might starve, or their families starve, for want of work. I dedicated that forge to negro labor. My men was a little disposed to interfere by violence with the men who engaged themselves to carry on that work, but I have never known any serious interference with my negro workmen at all. We have had peace and quiet, so far as I can learn, and white puddlers have never molested them at all, and we have had them two or three years.

Q. Still working?

A. Yes; we pay them the same price as white men, because I told them when they came that we would pay them just the same price as white puddlers got in other mills, and we have had to do so.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. Have you an idea how many employés are employed in the different mills in the cities of Allegheny and Pittsburgh?

A. I guess twenty or twenty-five thousand, probably; that is merely a guess. I would have to think over the number of mills. I suppose something like twenty thousand, and probably more.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You are speaking about a strike about twenty or twenty-five years ago. Have you any recollection of the military being called out at that time?

A. I don't recollect of them being called out—they might have been.

Q. At any other time within the last twenty-five years, were the military called out to preserve the peace?

A. I think one time I recollect of them being called out—I think it was at the time of starting the negro puddlers at the bolt company's works. I think then the military was called on; that is about two or three years ago.

Q. Was there any serious opposition to those new men working there?

A. There was some quarreling and knocking down. I think there was nothing very serious.

Q. As a general thing, in strikes among your men here in the mills or manufactories, you think it is bad policy to call out the military to suppress any trouble that might arise from them?

A. Yes; I do so. I think so for the reason that the military would do very well, if they could overawe, but the fear is that somebody would throw a stone, or somebody would fire a pistol, and then they would fire into the citizens. You understand as well as I do, that you put up proclamations and warn people to disperse, and you can go in and talk and plead with them, and still the crowd will be there, and it is almost certain that innocent people will be shot down, if there is any firing.

Q. In your testimony, you state you saw Mr. Cassatt in the rear porch of the Union depot, and advised him not to attempt to move trains on Saturday, as the men in your mills and manufactories were idle on that day—not to attempt to move trains until Monday—what reply did you get from him to that advice?

A. He said they must have possession of their property. If the State authorities did not give it to them, they would call on the general Government, taking his watch out, and said that they had now lost an hour and a half. That is about as near as I can recollect. The idea was they had lost an hour and a half in moving the Philadelphia regiment up to Twenty-eighth street—up to where the crowd was congregated over their property; that is, the railroad men as a general thing, on their property. I think the citizens were, as a general thing, on the hillside, as near as I can understand it—the most of the citizens, spectators, &c., were up on the hillside—some of them were up as high as the pest-house, on the hill. One young lad was shot there through the wrist—he was in a line with the pest-house.

Q. Were you a member of the citizens' committee waiting on Mr. Cassatt at that time?

A. No, sir. We had no citizens' committee at that time.

Q. Were you a member of the committee that waited on the Governor and the officials of the railroad company, at any time after that, to give him some advice?

A. Yes.

Q. State that?

A. I have forgotten the day. I don't recollect the day he arrived, but I think it was—I don't recollect the day he did arrive—it was some time in the week after the riot.

Q. The latter part of the week?

A. Probably it was; by the way, it was Saturday. I recollect very distinctly, because I spoke of Sunday just about as I did to Mr. Cassatt. Joseph F. Dilworth, Mr. Johnson, and myself were appointed a committee to visit the Governor. We got word to meet him Saturday morning at Thirty-third street, in a car, and we went up there and met him. I believe I did the first talking, and advised that nothing should be done until Monday to take possession of the ground. He said he was going to do nothing in a hurry—was going to take his time, and move with caution.

Q. Was this the conference with the Governor?

A. With the Governor himself. He said he was not out here in the interest of any railroad, but in the interest of peace, or something to that effect. He left me to understand that he didn't come to look after the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, but to look after the safety of this community. He had an impression that our water-works were stopped, and he did just as he said he would do. He waited quietly and did not do anything at all until Saturday night, until everybody was in bed. He put out pickets along Penn avenue, and up and down the streets, to keep everybody from going on the railroad property, and then commenced to work, and tore up the track and relay. That could have been done before the Governor came.

Q. Could the trains have been run.

A. I think so. I don't think there would have been any disturbance at all. If they had the trains there, they could have taken them out without any disturbance.

Q. In your opinion, from what you know, would there have been any disturbance, if they had attempted to move trains on Saturday or Sunday, when the Governor was here, at the time you had this conference with the Governor?

A. I think there would have been no disturbance—I am satisfied that the men who were designated as railroad strikers, regretted, probably as much as any other set of men, the destruction of the railroad property, and probably they would have been about as ready as any other men to have interfered with any outside people annoying the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in its moving trains. They might not have gone on to the locomotives and moved them themselves, but if any persons could have been procured to take out the trains, I don't think that the railroad strikers would have interfered.

Q. Would the crowd of people have interfered on that Saturday?

A. I don't think they would have interfered on that Saturday—that was about a week after the riot.

Q. Did I understand you to say you appealed to the Governor not to attempt to move trains on that Saturday?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. Did you think at that time there might be trouble?

A. I think so. I thought it was wise to take time, and do nothing until Monday.

J. Guy McCandles, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State whether you were present at the firing of the militia, on Saturday afternoon?

A. I was.

Q. Go on and state what you saw, and what occurred.

A. I was there the whole of Saturday. Went up Saturday morning, and was there during the day, and was there at the time of the firing, and when the Philadelphia troops came up, and whenever the troops came up, the crowd increased in front of them on Twenty-eighth street, until it was very dense, and there was a company deployed across the street to push them back. They marched up in front, with arms port, and marched up against the crowd, in order to push them back, but it was too dense, they could not do it. They retreated back a step or two, and charged bayonet. I was up on the hill, about two or three rods up on the hill, so that I could not hear any orders given of anything of that kind—I could only see their movements. I could see all their movements well. They attempted to charge bayonets, walked up slowly, got nearer and closer every moment, until the bayonets began to infringe on the crowd. Then one of the crowd got hold of a bayonet, and tried to pull the musket from the soldier. He jerked it from him, and he then gave him a sort of a push, and knocked him, I do not know which. Right immediately back of them, I saw a man draw out a pistol, and shoot right into the crowd. At the same time, there was two or three other pistol shots heard at different points. Almost simultaneously, we had a scattering fire from the soldiery, directed mostly right up on the hill towards where our troops were lying.

Q. Hid you hear any order to fire given?

A. I did not.

Q. How close were you?

A. About three rods off, at least. I could not have heard an order to fire. There was a good deal of noise and confusion.

Q. How many were wounded in the conflict?

A. I really don't know. I saw about fifteen or sixteen that were wounded, around on the hill where we were standing. I saw about that many there. There was one of the soldiers that was killed, shot through the head, twenty or thirty feet off, and when I went to him he was dead—a soldier of the Nineteenth regiment. I thought it was one of our own men. He was dead when we reached him. It was not one of our men, but the Nineteenth regiment, that was lying on our right and front. There was a very heavy volley of stones thrown into the soldiers previous to the fire.

Q. You were surgeon of the Fourteenth?

A. I was surgeon of the Fourteenth regiment.

Q. It was commanded by ——

A. Colonel Gray.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Do you know whether this soldier was killed by a shot fired from the mob or not?

A. It was not a pistol shot, I know that from the character of the wound.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. He was not one of the soldiers who put the mob back?

A. No, sir; he was one of the soldiers on the hill. They were facing towards the hill, and there was a great many of the mob that were there on the side of the hill, between the other soldiers, before us and Twenty-eighth street—a dense mass of them there.

Q. Was he standing in his command?

A. He was away from his command. He was not exactly in the crowd—the crowd was below him.

Q. He was not with his command?

A. Was not standing in rank at the time.

Q. How far away from his command?

A. About a rod from where the command was at the time. There was one or two companies on the hill in the same line with the others, and then two or more—three rods down, in front, near the hospital grounds. Had he been down with his command he would not have been shot—the shooting was higher.

Q. Was he back of his command?

A. As I say, his command was, at the time—some of the companies were—down near the railroad tracks, and there was a couple of companies up to the right of our regiment, three rods back of them on the hill, and it was between two—he was just between the two.

Q. Was he immediately behind any particular company, close——

A. He was some little distance to the right.

Q. Was he a non-commissioned officer, do you know?

A. No, sir; he was a private.

Doctor John S. Dixon, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 273 Penn avenue.

Q. Practicing physician?

A. Yes, sir; for ten years, in the city of Pittsburgh.

Q. State what knowledge you have of the riot, and what was done to suppress it?

A. The first part I took in any suppressing the riot—on Sunday I stayed at home, thought I might be needed, and that that was the best place for me. When it got so bad, and the Union depot had been fired, I thought it was my duty to go to the side of the hill to see what I could do there, and somebody proposed, or said, that as the grain elevator had already been set afire, that the next would be the Duquesne depot, and Mr. Bissell and myself and some others—quite a number started. I think he and I were the only ones of our party that got there. We went down to the Duquesne depot, and met a few persons there we knew and a great many we did not know. I do not know who was in sympathy with us or not. After being there some time, and trying to devise means of preventing the depot from being fired, if an attempt was made, we talked of getting a cable, and shutting off the leading avenues to the depot. There was a man rode up in a buggy and stated there was an attempt to fire the lower end of the depot. We were then at the upper end. We walked down, and there was a party examining a car. I went up and looked into the car, and there was some smoke and embers there, which somebody had scattered before I got there, to prevent it from catching fire. There was a barrel of oil rolled under the car—I do not know for what purpose it was, I suppose to set fire to it, and there was one man in particular by the name of David Carney or Carter. He was arrested afterwards; he was ringleader. I talked to him, and tried to persuade him not to do anything of the kind. He said he had been up all day at the fire above, and that he was one of the advance to set fire to the Duquesne depot. I asked him where he was from. He told me he was first an engineer on the Oil City railroad, and then he said he was from Ohio, then he told me he was from Greene county. He was so drunk and so excited and wild, with the burning, that he didn't know what he was talking about. He was bound to do mischief, and we talked to him one after the other, trying to persuade him, while one was holding him in control, and the party, the rest of the gentlemen, were interested in protecting the depot. They talked to a crowd, trying to persuade the people that lived there, if the Duquesne depot was fired, the whole lower part of the town would be burned, that the fire department were trying to save property on Wilder street on the hill, and that there would be several squares of valuable property destroyed if this depot was set on fire, as it is a mere shell, an old frame building, and very large. This man who was a ringleader of them, he said he didn't care a damn; he said that the property holders would have to pay for it, and the rich would have to pay for it, and he was a friend of the workingman. I told him if he would burn this property the working people, so many of them, would be burned out of house and home. He said there would be good come of it, at any rate, and that he was bound to burn that, and that they would burn the Connellsville depot, and that they would burn the bridges, and then they didn't care a damn what became of the rest of the town. I told him he had better not do that, that it was a very bad thing to do. Mr. Bissell told him, to try and keep him under control, that he had sent for policemen. The policemen came and I made information against him, and as soon as a couple of policemen nabbed him he wilted right away. He was very willing to be marched off to the lock-up. In his testimony at court, he said that he had arrived in the city Saturday afternoon, at two o'clock, from the oil regions, that he had been working that summer on his father's farm, some place up there, I have forgotten where he said—at some place, Parker, Oil City—had been working there during the summer, and heard there was going to be some fun down in Harrisburg, and he was coming down to have some of it, and that he had gotten drunk and didn't know what he was doing—that was according to his own testimony in the criminal court. He was convicted, I believe, for something like four years, that was about the total of my experience. I made an information against him.

Q. How did you learn his name?

A. I asked his name at the time, and he told me. He gave me two or three names, but his right name is either Carney or Carter. He gave one four or five days afterwards, at municipal hall, and at first he denied that he was the man at all—he never had seen me. Said he had been arrested on the south side for drunkenness, but he was recognized by Bissell and others, and he owned up he had been there. His name is Carney alias Carter.

Alexander King, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you live?

A. Pittsburgh, Nineteenth ward.

Q. What is your business here?

A. Merchant.

Q. In what kind of mercantile business are you engaged?

A. In glass material. I am not doing much now—winding up.

Q. Employ a large number of men?

A. No, sir; we have only two. I have been manufacturing heretofore, and have had quite a lot of them in a glass manufactory.

Q. You may go on and state what you desire to on the subject?

A. I noticed a few days ago, in an evening paper, a statement made by Sheriff Fife, or said to have been by him—of course, I do not know, I only read it in the papers—that I had offered the rioters a thousand barrels of flour.

Q. That was in Sheriff Fife's statement?

A. You gentlemen know, of course, what he did say. It was in the evening papers. It is altogether unfounded; it was neither flour nor money, nor have I ever offered nor paid one cent, or spoken to anybody on the subject. It is utterly without foundation.

Q. What you desire is to correct——

A. Any impression of that kind.

Q. And if such statements were made by the crowd, they were made without authority?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Was it not an assertion made here that that was the strikers this side, not the rioters?

A. The strikers. The crowd there claimed that the citizens were in sympathy with them, and they, too, had offered them a thousand barrels of flour. I think that was mentioned in the Chronicle. I should just say, I had never seen one of the strikers or rioters until I saw one of them in July—that is the first I ever saw any of them.

C. L. Jackson, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. 202 Juniata street, Allegheny.

Q. What is your business?

A. Engineer of the Fort Wayne railroad.

Q. Were you an engineer of that road in July last?

A. I was.

Q. State, Mr. Jackson, whether you had any knowledge of any pre-arranged plan among the railroad employés to strike?

A. I had not.

Q. Before the day of the 19th of July?

A. I had not. The first time I heard of it I came in in the evening at nine-twenty, Friday evening. I heard that they were stopping the trains from coming out.

Q. You came in from the west on Friday evening?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. That was the first you knew anything about it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you know anything about the organization of the Trainmen's Union?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. For what class of employés was that organized?

A. Brakesmen and firemen.

Q. Conductors?

A. Conductors.

Q. Engineers, too?

A. Engineers, I think.

Q. What was the purpose and object of that union?

A. Indeed, I could not say.

Q. Were you connected with it?

A. No, sir.

Q. Don't belong to it?

A. No, sir.

Q. Had you any talk with men that did belong to it?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you solicited by other employés to join it?

A. Yes; I was asked to join it.

Q. What reasons did they give—what inducements did they hold out for your joining it?

A. Indeed, I hardly know what they were.

Q. Who asked you to join it?

A. Conductors.

Q. What persons?

A. Indeed, I could not say.

Q. Conductors asked you to join it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What did they say was the object of the union?

A. They did not say.

Q. Didn't they give you any object?

A. Didn't give me any information.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Did they say to you how much advantage it would be to you to join it?

A. No, sir.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was it secret?

A. Yes; I believe it was.

Q. You know how extensive it was?

A. No, sir; I do not.

Q. Don't you know how many lodges there were organized?

A. Lodges organized all over the country, I think.

Q. You say you knew nothing of any pre-arranged plan for a strike?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you go out again after coming in on Friday night?

A. No, sir; not until after it was settled.

Q. And remained in the city of Allegheny all the time?

A. Yes, sir; I was over Sunday afternoon.

Q. Were you over Saturday to Pittsburgh?

A. I came over Saturday about two-thirty, or near two-thirty to three o'clock.

Q. Where did you go Friday night?

A. During the night I stayed in about two squares of home—Washington avenue, there.

Q. With the crowd?

A. There was a crowd around there. There was not very many.

Q. What class of men—railroad employés?

A. There was very few railroad men there.

Q. What were you staying there for?

A. I thought it was best to stay there. I heard of the trouble over in the city here, and I thought I would not come over, and that the best place to stay was at home.

Q. You were not at home?

A. Within two squares of home.

Q. How many men were there with you?

A. I suppose the forepart of the evening there was a good many men around there.

Q. How many would you judge?

A. I suppose maybe fifty or hundred; but they scattered away.

Q. All railroad men?

A. No, sir.

Q. What other men were there, besides railroad employés?

A. There was men that lived around there.

Q. And you remained there all night?

A. I remained there. I stayed there until about two o'clock in the morning.

Q. What was the object of that meeting?

A. There was no meeting.

Q. About fifty of you together. Would not you call that a meeting?

A. There was only two or three of us at seven or eight o'clock.

Q. What was the purposes or the objects of the coming there?

A. The men were just waiting. They saw the fire over at Pittsburgh.

Q. Was there any fire Friday night?

A. This was Saturday night.

Q. Friday night, you said?

A. I went right home Friday night.

Q. And stayed at home?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Then it was Saturday night you spoke of the coming there?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Sunday morning, where were you?

A. I did not get up at all until about ten o'clock.

Q. What time did you come over to the depot?

A. I came over about half-past two.

Q. How long did you remain at Union depot?

A. About ten or fifteen minutes.

Q. Did you come up to Twenty-fifth street?

A. No, sir.

Q. Where did you go from Union depot?

A. I came down Smithfield street, and went over the bridge to Allegheny again.

Q. You remained with this crowd until two o'clock, that you have spoken of?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where were you during the day on Sunday?

A. Sunday night came over to the city, between one and two o'clock on Sunday.

Q. Go up to the ground?

A. I was over at the Union depot. I was up on the hill side.

Q. How large a crowd was engaged in burning and plundering?

A. I do not know. I could see eighteen or twenty in the crowd.

Q. Did you see any railroad men among them?

A. I did not see a railroad man.

Q. Did you know any of the men?

A. I know some of them.

Q. Who were they?

A. I thought you asked me if I knew any of the railroad men—no, I did not know the men there.

Q. Did you know any of the men you saw there?

A. No.

Q. How long have you been working on the railroad?

A. About seventeen years.

Q. Then you knew most of the men who were working on railroads leading out of Pittsburgh, did you not?

A. I did not know a very few of them, except on our own road.

Q. Except on the Fort Wayne road?

A. I have stopped right there.

Q. You know nothing of any pre-arranged plan among the men for a strike?

A. No, sir; I did not.

Q. You belong to the Engineers' Brotherhood?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there anything talked of in that organization of strikes?

A. No, sir; there was not.

Q. Was there anything communicated from the Trainmen's Union to the Engineers' Brotherhood of a strike?

A. Not that I know of.

Q. If you know anything of the origin or the cause of the strike, I wish you to state it to us fully?

A. All I know about it, is the reduction of the wages ten per cent.

Q. That you think was the cause of it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there any order on the Fort Wayne road for running double-headers?

A. No, sir.

Q. Then the only thing that they had to complain of on the Fort Wayne and Chicago road, was the ten per cent. reduction, was it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When did that take effect?

A. I think it was on the 1st of July. I could not say certain.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Was there a necessity to run double-headers on the Fort Wayne and Chicago road, if they want to do it?

A. I do not know. I guess there is about as much necessity as there is on the Central road, if they wanted to do it.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Are double-headers used as a general thing where there are heavy grades?

A. Not on our road, there ain't.

Q. You have no very heavy grades on the Fort Wayne road?

A. We pull seventeen cars as our load.

Q. Don't you know, as a railroad man, that double-headers are used generally on heavy grades, if at all?

A. I know they are used on the Pennsylvania road.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Were there any other complaints or grievances by the men of that road?

A. Indeed, I can't say that there was.

Q. Have you ever heard?

A. No, sir.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Is there any other secret organization of railroad men, besides the Engineers' Brotherhood, that you know of?

A. No, sir.

Q. Are you at liberty to state the object of the Engineers' Brotherhood?

A. It is a more beneficial thing than anything else.

Q. The object of that association is not to control railroad companies, is it?

A. No, sir.

Q. Simply for their own benefit?

A. Benefit; yes, sir.

Q. During the trouble at the outer depot, or on the Fort Wayne, did you know of any armed force of railroad men that were prepared to protect any trains from coming into the city of Pittsburgh that had troops on?

A. I know there was a lot of them went to get some guns. Went down to the lower end of the yard.

Q. Railroad men?

A. I could say I did not see that. I saw a crowd about two squares off from our house. I could see them move down the track. I understood afterwards that was who they were.

Q. In your conversation with railroad men of the Pennsylvania Central, did you learn what their grievances were?

A. No; not particularly.

Q. Did they not complain of double-headers?

A. Yes; I believe there was a complaint of double-headers.

Q. Anything else?

A. Indeed, I could not say that there was.

Q. On your road it was on account of reduction of wages, was it, that they struck?

A. I think that is what it was.

Q. Are you acquainted with Bob Ammon?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you receive any orders from him?

A. No, sir.

Q. During the strike?

A. Never saw him during the strike.

Q. Did you assist the railroad men in protecting the property of the company?

A. I did, sir.

Q. Help to guard it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Against the mob?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was there any violence used to prevent the running of trains that you know of?

A. Not as I know of.

Q. No threats made?

A. No, sir; I didn't hear any.

Q. Were you on duty during the riots—were you at work, or did you run your engines during the troubles?

A. I would if they had wanted me to.

Q. If the company wanted you to?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you assist the strikers in running the cars down out of danger?

A. I was over at the city the afternoon they were taken out.

Q. Take any of the cars out yourself?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you run any engine during that time—from Thursday until Monday?

A. No, sir.

Q. Were you called on by the railroad officials?

A. No, sir.

Q. Or by Bob Ammon?

A. No, sir.

Q. You are still in the employment of the road?

A. Yes, sir.

At this point the committee adjourned until three o'clock, this afternoon.

Pittsburgh, Saturday, February 23, 1878.

The committee met at three o'clock, pursuant to adjournment, Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All members present.

William W. Thompson, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Fourth ward, Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business?

A. Attorney.

Q. State, Mr. Thompson, what knowledge you have of the riots and means taken to suppress—I do not know the fact that you are called to prove particularly, but go on and state it?

A. I just say this: That during the time of the riots, I was chairman of the police committee of the city of Pittsburgh, and that on the evening of Saturday, the 21st of July, I was up at city hall. The mayor had called a special meeting in order to enable him to employ additional police, and he employed the policemen round about the city hall at that time to deliver the notices, and we had a meeting on Sunday morning, at ten o'clock, and authorized the mayor to employ as many additional policemen as he deemed necessary for the emergency. That was all that the police committee had authority to stop.

Q. What time was that meeting?

A. On Sunday, the 22d of July, at ten o'clock.

Q. You then authorized him to employ as many police as he deemed necessary?

A. Yes; for the emergency that was all we could do. Afterwards that evening I was at city hall, and Colonel Howard—I do not remember the number of his regiment—

Q. The Nineteenth, I believe?

A. I think it was the Nineteenth—asked me to call a meeting of the councils. At that time, on account of the absence of Negley, I was president of common council, and at his instance I called a meeting of the common council, and also issued a call, in the name of Mr. Aiken, president of the select council, for a meeting of the select council the next morning at ten o'clock, for the meeting to authorize the payment of any expenses that might be necessary for the purpose of suppressing the riot. We had a meeting next morning, at ten o'clock, and authorized the payment of whatever expenses were necessary for that purpose.

Q. Did the mayor increase his police force after that, to your knowledge?

A. I know before that time the policemen had been reduced, on account of want of appropriation—had been reduced one half—and he sent out notices for all the discharged policemen to come in and be sworn in as additional policemen. That was Saturday, and on Sunday morning there were some of them there, but not many of them. There were a good many of the police refused to serve on account of being employed for an emergency. They said if they were to be employed for the balance of the year they would serve, but if they were to be employed for a few days, to go into this fight, they would not act. That evening—that Sunday evening—there were several residents down in the Fourth ward, in the neighborhood of the Duquesne depot, employed a force to guard the Duquesne depot there that night. It was said there was going to be an attack on it, and they had a guard around it to protect it that night—to prevent the rioters from setting it on fire. There were two men arrested for making an attempt to burn it. I believe they were tried and convicted afterwards for attempted arson.

Q. Was there any disposition on the part of either branch to employ all the force required in the city to suppress the riot?

A. That whole matter rested with the police committee, and the vote of the police committee was unanimous authorizing the mayor to employ as many men as he deemed necessary. There was no opposition. We held a joint session Monday morning for the purpose of authorizing the payment of all expenses necessary for that purpose. My recollection for that purpose has been paid without any objection that I know of.

E. P. Jones, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the Thirteenth ward, Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business?

A. Attorney.

Q. I do not know the fact you are called upon to prove, but if you will just go on and state it——

A. I hardly know myself. I saw a good deal of the riot, but I think some one mentioned to me that it was with reference to the circumstances that I saw Saturday night. I rode past the round-house between nine and ten o'clock, on Saturday night.

Q. What time?

A. Between nine and ten o'clock. When I got to the round-house, and was just passing it, there was a two horse carriage drove up. It stopped, or was stopped, just when I was there, and they had something in the carriage that they delivered to the crowd, taking the articles from under the seats, and as soon as they delivered them to the crowd, the whole crowd burst in one applause and hurrah. I presume, too, without knowing the fact—I did not see the articles—but I thought they were ammunition and arms. I went on, after that. There was a great crowd of people there, and I rode by way of Liberty street from that point down to the depot. Every avenue leading on Liberty street, and to the round-house, were crowded with people going that way. They were all in a great hurry.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You did not see what was in the carriage?

A. No; I could not say that I saw the articles, positively. I happened to mention that circumstance, and some one——

Q. Did you hear in the crowd anything expressive of what it was?

A. Nothing but applause. They received whatever there was there, with great applause and excitement. I saw the burning on Sunday.

Q. Do you know who drove the carriage?

A. No, sir; the driver was sitting up in one of those high sitting carriages—a two horse carriage. It stopped right at the round-house, in the midst of the crowd, and the articles, whatever they were, were delivered.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did you know the carriage?

A. No, sir; it appeared to be a hired carriage. I am satisfied of that.

Q. Belonging to——

A. I would take it that it was one of those livery stable rigs.

Q. A hack?

A. Yes, one of those carriages. It was not a private carriage. I do not know any other facts.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Where were you during Sunday, during the burning of the property there and rioting?

A. I was on the hill—I was on Grant street, and different places during the day. Went to church in the morning, and then in the afternoon I was among the rioters.

Q. Were you near the scene of the riot?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What kind of people appeared to be engaged in this riot?

A. They appeared to be foreigners, and I must say that looking at them, and being among them, I could not recognize one face.

Q. You speak of foreigners. You mean not living in this vicinity?

A. Yes, sir; and I saw some Germans, but the burners were Irish—a few negroes, but very few.

Q. Did you have any conversation with many of those people?

A. Yes; talked with them some.

Q. Did you remonstrate with any of them for the rioting?

A. Yes; talked of the impropriety of what they were doing. I was stationed at the last part of the riot at Grant street, when the elevator was burning. There were a great many there. I had some talk with people there. I was struck by one—it was an Irishman that struck me.

Q. How did it happen—how did he come to strike you?

A. I was just in the street there, and he struck me.

Q. Without any provocation?

A. Without any provocation at all.

Q. What did he say?

A. He damned me.

Q. Give any reasons for striking you?

A. No reasons at all.

Q. Was it for remonstrating with him?

A. No; I was not talking with him. I was standing in the street, talking to another man, and he came along, and I believe he jostled against somebody, and his hat went off, and I heard him command some one to take up his hat, and I paid no attention to it. The gent I was talking to, said we had better get away from here. He stepped in the street and went away, and this fellow made a pitch at me, and struck me.

Q. Without assigning any reason?

A. He says, "Damn you, pick up that hat, or I will make you do it."

Q. Did you pick it up?

A. No; I did not. After he struck me, I knocked him down, and kicked him twice. I struck him. Knocked him down, and kicked him twice, and wheeled right in the crowd and remained there, and did not go away.

Henry Warner, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State your residence?

A. Allegheny City.

Q. And official position?

A. Comptroller of Allegheny City.

Q. You may just go on and state the facts.

A. My testimony will bear entirely on the restoration of order and closing scenes of the riot. I will state that on Saturday, the day the riot broke out, I left my office here, at fifteen minutes after five o'clock in the evening, and took the train to a place I was boarding at, in the country, with my family. I did not hear before I left the office, nor hear on the train, one word of any disturbance that had taken place on the Pennsylvania railroad. I knew that there had been a strike. I knew that the trains were prevented from running by the strikers, but I did not know of any overt act of violence having been committed, either by the public authorities or the strikers. There is no telegraphic communication with the place I was boarding at, and on Sabbath day, late in the day, rumors commenced to circulate throughout the country of the scenes that were occurring in the city, and when the night was pretty far advanced, the light from the burning could be seen at that distance, over twelve miles—the glare in the sky. I made arrangements with some persons, thinking that, probably, the train might be detained at Little Washington, and not come in. I made arrangements to come with some other gentlemen by private conveyance, but the train came along that day, and I arrived at my office on Monday at half past eight o'clock. The first message I received was from Mayor McCarthy to come to his office without delay, and I took one of the county commissioners and started for his office. I had no opportunity of learning the extent of the disaster that had occurred. I met him on the corner of Fifth and Smithfield. He appeared to me to have been coming up in this direction. As soon as he saw me, he hallooed me, and said that the Philadelphia military had been driven from the city, and had taken refuge at the Allegheny county work-house, and the authorities had refused to provide them with victuals, and requested me to order the authorities at the work-house to provide the soldiers with something to eat. Mr. Begard and I—Mr. Begard is the county commissioner—started for the Western Union telegraph office, and at my request, the telegraph company put one of their lines—gave me the use of one of their lines to communicate as long and much as I wished. The nearest telegraph station to the work-house was a mile and a half away from the work-house. The operator tried his line, and found that they were down, and reported the fact, and stated, that probably if I would go to Allegheny City, and the West Penn station, that probably I would get communication there. I went over to the West Penn station, and the proprietor there tried the lines also, and his lines were down—could not get any communication. He then advised me to go to the transfer station of the West Penn railroad, about three quarters of a mile out, and probably I could get communication there. When I went out there, we got telegraphic communication, and discovered that the soldiers were all loaded on cars, and were then on their way to Blairsville. On my return to the Allegheny depot, I met one of the soldiers of the Philadelphia command, who had straggled away from his regiment, and who was in citizen's dress. Some citizens called my attention to the man, and said that he was eager for protection, that he was in fear of personal danger, and they requested that I would take charge of him and do something for him. I told him the circumstances, where his command had been shipped to, and went to one of the officials of the West Penn railroad, and got him transportation on the first line that left the depot. I took a card out of my pocket, and directed it to the commanding officer, requesting him to come back with his command to the work-house, and that he would be provisioned there and be taken care of. I don't know whether that note ever reached the commanding officer or not. It certainly had no effect. That and the meeting of the committee of safety, in Pittsburgh, on Monday afternoon, in which they requested the prompt coöperation of the county authorities, and especially the use of the means under our control, and restore order, was my first day's work. On Tuesday, at the request of the committee of public safety, I went to Colonel Howe, superintendent Western Union Telegraph Company, and requested him to send a man to Claremont to put the work-house in telegraphic communication with the city, as there were very serious rumors prevailing that the coopers, who were much opposed, in this vicinity, to prison labor, were about to assault the work-house, and probably destroy it. Colonel Rowe did so. He sent his men there, and in less than two hours I had a dispatch from the superintendent of the work-house. The dispatch was to the effect that I should send him out arms and ammunition. Senator McNeil was then in the city, and he and I got a buggy, and went out to the arsenal, stated our case to the commandant of the Allegheny arsenal, and he told us he had authority to issue five hundred stand of arms from the Secretary of War—authority from the Secretary of War to issue five hundred stand of arms to the mayor of Allegheny City. As the mayor of Allegheny had only drawn four hundred, he had one hundred left, and suggested that we should get an order for the balance. We took a flour wagon over to the arsenal. The mayor of Allegheny told McNeil, and some citizens also told us, that we could not possibly get away from the arsenal with arms and ammunition, as we should be watched, and that all avenues leading to and from the city were carefully guarded by the rioters. We got one hundred stand of arms from the arsenal, five thousand rounds of ammunition, and loaded it in our flour wagon, and, with a single driver, and McNeil and myself in the buggy, took them to the Allegheny work-house, a distance of eight miles, by country roads. We were not misled nor questioned by any person. At the time we left the arsenal, the commandant showed us out a private entrance. I might state here that the superintendent of the work-house proposed to defend that institution with the employés of the institution, and with some trusty criminals that he had in charge. He thought that if he had the arms and ammunition he would be perfectly safe. We remained all night at the work-house, and on Wednesday morning instructed the sheriff of the county—the county commissioner and myself, instructed the sheriff of the county, in view of the fact that the railroad officials had appeared to have abandoned their property entirely, to immediately throw a guard of men of not less than one hundred around all the burned district to protect what remaining property was on the ground, scrap iron, &c., and it was rumored that a car load of bullion had been melted and run into the debris, and the sheriff immediately did so. We also called into our aid—although we were advised that it was out of our jurisdiction—that is, there appeared to be no person to undertake these things—we called into our aid the county detective, and instructed him to employ as many detectives, and as many wagons as he could possibly use, and to hunt for and restore the stolen property that had been taken away, and to bring it to a warehouse that we rented on Liberty street—a large warehouse for the purpose, and also put notices—had notices inserted in all the papers, morning and evening, directing any persons who had any property in their possession that had been taken during the riot to deliver it to those detectives, or at that warehouse. A very large amount of property was recovered—property of all descriptions, and under an arrangement with the officials of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, as this property was nearly all theirs and taken from their cars, they were delivered over to the officials of the railroad company, and their receipts were taken for the same. That covers a period of probably two weeks, and various instances happened in regard to that property that would scarcely be necessary for me to repeat. Some of them were very curious. A great deal of the property was voluntarily brought back, and the excuse was given that, as it seemed to be a general thing, and as every person was taking property, thought that that property, a barrel of flour, or a ham, or box of cigars, or whatever it may be, might as well be taken by them as be lost. I had a conversation with the president of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company a few days after that—Colonel Thomas A. Scott—and an arrangement was entered into in regard to those losses—in regard to an account being taken of them, and to have them as definitely settled as possible. The county commissioners and myself appointed a commission, composed of the fire marshal of Allegheny county, and Robert Thorn, an experienced insurance adjuster, and Mr. Trimble, an experienced carpenter, to go upon the ground and thoroughly investigate any claims for loss or damage, which they did, and I have in my office now over one hundred and sixty-nine adjusted claims; that is, claims that were settled—the amount settled by this commission. Colonel Scott was to investigate the losses of freights, which would take a very considerable time, and obtain such proofs as were in the possession of the railroad company in regard to the losses; and the estimated value of the goods that were returned to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company could not have been much short of sixty thousand dollars, at first cost—the cost to the owners. They were disposed of by auction, many of them being broken packages, and much of the goods being such as would spoil by being kept on hand. We also appointed a commission, composed of three experienced locomotive and car builders, to go upon the ground and carefully estimate the damage that was done to locomotives and cars. I have also that report on file in my office; and after a period of about four weeks we suspended, as the civil officers—as the financial officers really had no jurisdiction in those matters—suspended all operations in that line, and handed it over to the civil authorities of the county. I may say here, in addition to that, that we considered, as financial officers of the county, that no expense should be spared nor efforts spared to make restitution, and return all the property it was possible to get hold of. A great deal of property was returned to private individuals, besides that that was returned to the railroad company.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What was the amount of losses adjusted by the two commissions?

A. The amount that was adjusted of strictly private property, that has been finished by the fire marshall's commission, as we call it, has been fixed at about $160,000, in round figures. The locomotive engineers' report——

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Let me understand. What do you mean by strictly private property, does that include furniture?

A. No; that includes houses that were burned, and furniture destroyed.

Q. Any railroad property?

A. No railroad property. I will also state that there was some claims of that nature, that the parties who had the claims refused to present them to the commission, and have them adjusted by the commission. A notable instance of that kind is the Pittsburgh elevator. Their claim for loss is above, I believe, $200,000, alone. Some person will come along with a claim for a suit of clothes, or something of that kind, that was lost in a hotel, or in some house. The commissions reported in regard to locomotive property—railroad property. I considered it private, and have not given the figures to the public.

Q. Have you any estimate of the loss of freight?

A. We have no authentic estimate. I wrote to Colonel Scott in regard to that before I published my annual report, and got no reply, but I understood that the matter was in the hands of a gentleman in Altoona, who had not got through with it. I want to impress the committee with the fact that every effort was made to make restitution.

James Little, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. Twenty-first ward, city of Pittsburgh.

Q. What is your business?

A. Wholesale liquor.

Q. I believe you are called to give us some information as to what was done to suppress the riot on Sunday night?

A. The trouble is to know where to begin and not detain you with unnecessary ideas. I came in on Sabbath morning, when I heard of it. As I came down street, William Smith, the pipeman, proposed we would hold a meeting, and I went down street, and as I went down every prominent man I met I announced it to them, and went on down at the meeting—down at the old market-house.

Q. Citizens' meeting?

A. Citizens' meeting, Sunday. When the meeting was called to order, James Parke was called to the chair, and he assumed to run the whole meeting. He didn't want any one else to speak but himself, and he had been managing the strikers for twenty-five years, and cut me out entirely, and I felt, perhaps, a little personal disgust with how it was managed. I went up to the depot. Citizens came to me and pleaded with me to take part. I went among the railroad men I knew, and asked, Where are the leaders—where is the man that has this thing in charge, where can we go to get parties to prevail on them to stop? They would say, That man over there, pointing to some man; and the first answer he would give would be a rebuff, very harsh generally. I would tell them, That is no use—I don't want to be treated in that way. This thing is disgracing and injuring you and all of us. I treated them as railroad men. Railroad men would send me to those parties. They were invariably strangers. Those that took command were men that were not known here—that is, gave the hints to stand along and managed the guards that were keeping the citizens back that were interfering with them firing the cars.

Q. Railroad men seemed to know who they were?

A. Railroad men knew who they were. At first they denied me any conversation, then I would get and talk with them, and after awhile they would say. So far as I am concerned we will consent to have the thing stopped. Then here was a crowd that I did see some among—I knew the faces of a large number—that would not permit the fire to stop. Told them to burn, apparently, through spite they had of the employers. About the time the fire got round to Seventh street, they had exhausted the line of railroad there—it goes into the tunnel—and we heard the remark, "Now for the point depot." They were quite drunk. There was a car of whisky behind the elevator—they had broken open the car—high wines—and it was perhaps the saving of any further destruction—had made them dead drunk. We gathered up five or six and started with them, explaining to them what districts would be burned, if they didn't furnish assistance. One or two men set fire to cars and in a short time we prevailed on the citizens. I made a speech on a barrel, and we found we had backing enough to call in the police officers and have one of the men arrested, and to stop the riot there. They made declarations that have come before the courts here—that the attorney who has been attending to these courts will recollect—how they were going to proceed to burn the railroad property on the south side.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did these men tell you how they were going to proceed?

A. They said they would not stop until they would burn the cars that were standing on the south side, and the different depots—they were going to burn these depots, and so forth. Some of them made remarks, and some of them did not, on that question. I was treated with perfect respect—announced myself, and we discussed it there. I was one of those unfortunate men that thought I could stop that riot with fifty men.

Q. You mean by remonstrances?

A. By talking, not by force.

Q. Pick handle persuasion?

A. No; white handkerchief. Go right at it, and when a man won't submit to be arrested, try to put him out of the way; if we had to hurt him, hurt him. I served a short time in the military, and we done things very quick in that way there. We would try to handle men gently, and if he would not submit, he was handled roughly.

By Mr. Englebert:

Q. What you would call knock down arguments?

A. There was no chance for white handkerchief nor pick handle arguments there. The crowd was too close.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Could you have quelled the disturbance without the use of fire arms?

A. No, sir; not at all. Perhaps, without the use of them. I would think that, if they had seen men determined to do their work, there would be no necessity for any trouble.

Q. The idea was to be prepared, in case there was a necessity for using fire arms.

A. I, unfortunately, employed in the army, on police duty, through the country, and would arrest many a man who shot a dozen, and you come at them quietly and determined, and they would surrender.

Q. You thought it was necessary to use a show of force and resolution?

A. Yes; and I consider State officers and all were interested by "don't hurt anybody," that that idea got through the crowd, and they were confident that there was nobody going to be hurt.

Q. Do you know of anybody waiting upon the city authorities?

A. I was not connected with that part. I had connection with the mayor's proceeding, to some extent, as a councilor.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. What efforts did he make?

A. He sent for some of the leading councilmen, and called a meeting of the council, and we met in general session, and resolved that we would sustain the mayor in paying any expense that he would incur.

Q. When was that?

A. I think on Monday.

Q. After the riot?

A. They supposed the riot was still unquelled.

Q. What I mean is, before the breaking out of the riot—before Saturday night—during Thursday and Friday—was there any steps taken before any consultations with the councilmen?

A. There was, to some extent, but in the shape of a meeting of council.

Q. Was there any talk about calling a meeting, and it would be necessary to take means to suppress any disturbance that might grow out of it?

A. There was, up to the time the county and the military took hold. Then it looked as if the force was immense to a great many—the military force being called out—they had called on them, and the exertions, perhaps, relaxed on the part of the city authorities.

Q. What seemed to animate these men among this crowd?

A. These men that stood back and threatened to shoot any man that would interfere—was a man that appeared to be animated by a spirit of opposition to the railroad—to burn out the railroad—and those that were doing the burning were parties that apparently acted under this direction and were generally strangers that none of us could recognize. On the other hand, it was citizens of Harrisburg that was generally doing the wrecking and carrying away goods. That is as near as I can judge from my connection with them, and I mingled right among them.

Q. Were you among them there Thursday or Friday—have you any knowledge?

A. The first that surprised me in the transactions—I went up to the Union depot on—I think it was Saturday, and the military there—some of the companies—were marched out to go to East Liberty, and instead of ridding the crowd away, they bundled through the crowd, so that they could hardly hold ranks—got out as best they could. I was surprised at it. I thought there was no disposition shown by the military to disperse these crowds.

Q. Have you any knowledge of the causes leading to the riot, at all?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. From personal knowledge?

A. Yes; I suppose I have as good a knowledge of that as most people, because you mingled with railroad men and heard them talk. They were clamoring on account of the reduction of wages and the double-headers. These two were the arguments they plead their cases on. As a general thing they had a good deal of sympathy, I think.

Q. What do you mean by sympathy?

A. They represented their case so that a great many people thought that they were imposed on.

Q. What cause did they assign—a reduction in wages?

A. The reduction in wages was such that, for instance, one brakesman I know to be of good character, he had his last check or warrant, showing that eighteen dollars and some cents was all he could make during the month. His argument was in this shape: Brakesmen would not go out for a day or so, and they could not make a living at the wages they paid; that too many of them were employed. He did not use that argument, but his argument went to show that there was too many of them employed, and that they could not get steady work, and it was still being cut down lower. That was the argument of one man, as a sample.

Q. He seemed to express the ideas of all of them—he was a man of intelligence?

A. He was a very nice man, a man I have known for some time. I think he has a wife and some children. He pulled out his warrant and showed me, as a part of his argument.

Q. He only received eighteen dollars a month?

A. Only got in time enough to make that. While the railroad men stood in the position of defending themselves, they had a great many friends, until it got into the shape of a riot, and then people began to complain. They were uneasy, and saw that things were changed.

Q. Have you any other information on that subject—the cause, which is, as you have expressed, this man's opinion?

A. No other argument that was used in regard to the double-headers. They were on these heavy trains, with only the same number of brakemen as on a single train, and it was so hard to work, and at the same time it was throwing a part of them out of work, and making their time so much less to the men—the same as that man described—he only made eighteen dollars. Numbers of them talked. There was a neighborhood handy to me, where railroad men live, and I often dropped in with them, and talked with them to see what their views are during the week, and that was a leading argument among the common men. I can explain that almost as fully as a road man. I am so familiar with that—any question you wish to ask about it. Double-header is where there is a locomotive put to thirty-six cars, and where they will take about half of that with a single one, and then they would put on a crew to break the cars and attend to them—one conductor and one or two brakemen—the same number that was put on a single train, and they would have to do the work of a number of hands, and they objected to that work—was too heavy, with the mountains and the heavy grades, and with the heavy trains, made their breaking so heavy that it was very hard and dangerous. They complained, of the way they were abused by handling these heavy trains.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did the men appear to think that they should be allowed to make … and higher up, and none of them discharged?

A. They argued, that the pay should not be reduced and the labor increased. They talked against these double-headers, the reduction being made on their wages, and their labor increased by doubling up the train, making their labor heavier and those who were doing the work. This is the shape they objected.

Q. Did you learn whether it was their idea that they should be getting full time, or were they willing that part should be discharged, and then let them make full time?

A. I never heard them express their views on that point, but they complained they were not getting full time. Were standing, waiting for days, looking for a job, and that if they were not there for a moment, they would lose their chance.

J. L. Kennedy, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where is your residence, Mr. Kennedy?

A. Claremont.

Q. What is your official business?

A. Warden of the county work-house, at present.

Q. Were you in July last?

A. I was assistant warden at that time.

Q. State whether the militia under the command of General Brinton came to the work-house, and what you saw and heard?

A. On the Sunday afternoon General Brinton came to the building, about two o'clock, I guess, him and another gentleman from Philadelphia came there in a buggy, and wanted to know if he could put his troops inside. I told him the superintendent was not at home, and I did not feel like them going inside, as they would not be more secure than outside. I advised him to take his men up on the hill in camp. They said they had been driven from the city, and the mob was following them. I told him I did not think there would be much danger in taking the men up on the hill. They would be just as secure. He inquired the way back to Sharpsburg. He had not his troops with him. He was in advance of them. I told him the way to Sharpsburg, and he wanted to know if he could get back without going back on the public road. I told him he could not, unless he would leave his horse there, and walk through the field. He appeared to be very much frightened, and very much demoralized. He started back to meet his troops, and took them upon the hill, and kept them in camp there. The next morning he left, I believe, and put them aboard cars, and took them to Blairsville. In the evening some men came down, and asked if we could give them some provisions. We gave them as much bread as they wanted, and all the meat about the institution. At that time the superintendent came back, and him and I went up, and we saw more bread than the troops had any use for. I believe the poor-house gave them all the coffee they wanted.

Q. Did you converse with the troops any?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you see them when they marched up?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did they march in regular order?

A. Some of them, and some did not—kept straggling up there all the evening, after the main body came through, they kept straggling up all the evening. In fact, the next two days they came there one or two at a time. Some of them had their uniforms on, and several came around with citizen's clothes on. The next day after they left, there were two came there, one of them had been wounded. We took him inside, and had our hospital steward dress his wound, and kept him there until we got transportation for them, and they were sent to Blairsville.

Q. Did any of the mob follow them up Sunday?

A. No, sir; no person came after them at all.

Q. Was there any attack made upon this institution, or threatened?

A. It was threatened very strongly, but they never made any attack.

Q. What preparations did you make to meet them?

A. There had been a lot of arms sent out to us through the county commissioners, and we were prepared to meet any emergency.

W. G. Johnson, sworn:

Witness: I do not know that I can give you anything in addition to what you have already had.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. There was information that it was suggested that you might give about something that was done on the south side in the way of protection of the depot or the trains there—of patrolling the approaches to the city on that side.

A. The committee of safety on Monday immediately took steps. They organized military force of the citizens. General Negley had already made a start in that direction, and our committee coöperated with him. In fact, he was a member of that committee. He was in continual correspondence with the committee. Quite a number of military organizations were formed under General Negley's command; among others was that of Major Paul. That was a mounted patrol. The safety committee purchased horses and hired horses for some two or three weeks; had them patrol all the highways and streets at all hours of the day and night, and wherever there was any disturbance they were, of course, sent in that direction to see what was necessary to put it down. I suppose what you refer to is over at the Cork Run tunnel. There were no disturbance there, but there were some threatenings of burning of cars in the tunnel. Major Paul visited that point and scoured the whole country.

Q. Is that on the Allegheny road?

A. No, sir; that is on the Pan Handle. He scoured the country around and found—the only thing he found in that direction in the way of an assemblage was a lot of miners out by Mansfield holding a meeting there. They saw nothing that looked riotous among those miners. They were holding a meeting in regard to the strike at the time. Whether any damage would have arisen to the cars there in Cork Run tunnel, we would see if there were any parties having an eye to it, and Major Paul's command would have kept the post pretty clear.

Q. You do not think of anything new, Mr. Johnson, in relation to the organizations. We had a pretty full explanation of the organization by the citizens.

A. You have had a pretty full explanation through Mr. Park and Mr. McKune and others. They have testified to the main facts in relation to what the committee did. At the very outset the pledging of these individuals to unlimited amounts to restore peace and order. They have already told you of what the nature of the disquiet was on Monday morning. The streets were crowded to excess, apparently by strangers never seen here before, and it looked very threatening, indeed—very alarming. Every precaution was taken by this committee at the time. They were in session continuously from Monday morning until Saturday night, from nine o'clock in the morning until nine o'clock at night, and sometimes until midnight. We were in correspondence with the Secretary of War, as to ammunition, and got all we wanted—arms and ammunition; in correspondence with Governor Hartranft on his route from the west here. We met him on his arrival. Urged him to remain here, thinking his presence would be of great benefit, but he only consented to remain until three o'clock on the following morning. He remained from eight or nine o'clock until three o'clock the following morning, saying he could do us more good by going to Philadelphia to consult with General Hancock, and he would have sufficient force of military here to restore perfect quiet.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. I understood you to say that you organized this citizens' committee—this committee organized of companies—and armed them?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How did you arm them?

A. We procured arms from the arsenal.

Q. Muskets?

A. Muskets—rifles—Springfield rifles.

Q. What class of men were those you organized into companies?

A. Some of them—some members of them—were men who had been out in the last war.

Q. Were any of them in those companies among the rioters or part of the rioters?

A. Yes; I will explain a little matter of that character. General Negley had his head-quarters in Lafayette hall, and I think it was on Tuesday noon I had left the Chamber of Commerce rooms to go to my dinner, and I noticed a squad of probably sixty men, about as rough looking chaps as I had ever laid eyes on, going through some military motions on Wood street. I saw General Negley on the opposite corner, and I asked him the question whether he was feeding a lot of tramps. We were paying the expense of feeding them. Says he, "You are about right. We are mustering those fellows out." He had taken under his command all that would offer, and he had to sift them out afterwards. He said these he had sifted out, and he was going to muster them out—going to pay them a dollar a piece and tell them "go." The night previous he discovered that some of these men had been among the rioters. They were regular tramps, undoubtedly, and he had these men arrested and sent to the lockup, and found that they had been among the rioters, and these others were undoubtedly tramps of the same character. The city was infested with them at that time.

Q. These men had been armed by your committee, without knowing what class of men they were?

A. General Negley had placed arms in the hands of the men under his control.

Q. Some of them had turned out to be some of the rioters?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. As soon as it was discovered——

A. As soon as it was discovered, those he knew to be rioters he had arrested, and sent to the lockup. The others were picked out by their appearance, and he had them mustered out.

Q. Did you keep any men in these commands you knew were among the rioters?

A. None we knew of. General Negley was very particular in regard to them. My own knowledge in reference to tramps was brought out on Sunday, the day of the riot. I wanted to come to town to see what was going on, and my family persuaded me to remain at home for a double reason. They were not very far from the stock-yards, which were threatened by fire, and the hotel out there, and another reason for my remaining at home was the great number of tramps, that for some days before had been coming along the road and getting food. East Liberty was a great camping ground for these tramps.

Q. Were there more than the usual number of those tramps?

A. A great many more than usual. At that time I did not connect the fact of the unusual number of tramps with the riots.

Q. What direction did they go?

A. Heading towards the city invariably.

J. L. Bigham, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. I now reside in Allegheny.

Q. Are you a member of the National Guard?

A. Yes, sir; I am captain of the Nineteenth regiment, commanding company G, of that regiment.

Q. Were you with your command on the 21st of July?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. State what orders you heard given by General Brown, at the transfer station, in reference to the regiments disbanding?

A. General Brown came in, I suppose, about eleven o'clock. There was some consultation between him and the colonels—Colonel Howard and Colonel Gray. There was some move talked about. I came down and asked Colonel Howard what was to be done, and he said he didn't know, and in a few moments General Brown came up, and directed him to have his arms and equipments concealed in the building, where the mob would not get them when they came in, and dismiss his men there in the sheds, and directed them to find their way home the best way they could, each man for himself.

Q. That was done, was it?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What was done by you and by the balance of the regiment as to re-assembling?

A. I went home that night. The next morning when I got up—I had breakfast about eight o'clock—everything was on fire then. I got my lieutenant to come out and hunt up some of the men, and sent for my sergeant to have the armory open, and went over to the Union depot to see what was to be done. I saw General Brown there, and asked him if he would allow the regiment to be re-assembled and let us go out to protect the fire department. I got information that the mob had stopped the fire department from work. He says: No, it will exasperate the mob. I saw General Latta, and made the same request of him; he first said our regiment had not behaved well the day before, and there was no use in re-assembling us, and finally he said he would not take the responsibility—refused to allow us to re-assemble and go out. I went from there down to see the adjutant, and told him what occurred, and I understand that he went up by some direction of the colonel, and asked for orders to the same effect. That evening Mayor Philips organized the citizens, and made arrangements to go down and protect one of the lower bridges there. Part of my men were in that, and partly citizens. There were twenty of my muskets used there. I was down at the bridge when Colonel Howard came there, about one o'clock in the morning, and ordered me to re-assemble and report for duty at nine o'clock. I left there, and started men out to order the other men to report, and reported shortly after nine o'clock with a portion of my men, and got the other men gathered by eleven, and we were on duty from that time, continuously, until we were dismissed.

Q. Had the regiment re-assembled as a regiment?

A. They re-assembled as a regiment on Monday morning, and were used in suppressing several disturbances that occurred on Monday.

Q. How many men were together on Monday?

A. I suppose about a hundred men. When the regiment came together, Captain McFarland was not with us. He had been assembled earlier than the rest of the regiment, and was sent up to Second avenue park here, where there was some disturbance, and was kept moving about. I, myself, had only about sixteen men. I and a part of Captain Batchelor's company and a part of Captain Archibald's were taken down to Limerick, where there had been an attack made on some cars. We went down there and came back, and when we came back, the regiment was re-assembled as a regiment. The balance of Captain Bachelor's company and Captain Gordon's company. He had been operating by scattered detachments until near two o'clock.

Q. You remained here until the arrival of the Governor with troops from the east?

A. We remained until I think the night of the 21st of July, when we left for Scranton.

Q. How many men did you have when you left for Scranton?

A. I do not how many, exactly, sir. I think thirty-six men with me, and I think our companies averaged about that—seven companies on duty.

Q. Something over two hundred, then?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What does the regiment number when all the men are present?

A. We had only six companies, of about thirty-five or thirty-six men. There should be forty men to each company. There were one or two companies that ran about fifty men, but usually the companies did not run over forty. We considered turning out thirty-six men as a pretty full turnout.

Q. Were the men obedient—did they perform their duty?

A. I had no trouble. None of my men refusing to obey orders. Two or three of them deserted. I had two of them in jail for it afterwards. There was no disobedience of orders.

Colonel Robert Monroe, sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State where you live, if you please?

A. In Allegheny City.

Q. What is your business?

A. Boiler manufacturer.

Q. I do not know what point you are called to testify to, but you may go on and state?

A. I could not say because I saw very little of the riot. I was kept down at the Point. My location is at the Point.

Q. I presume that it is perhaps best to state to us what was done towards protecting the Duquesne depot?

A. I was at the Duquesne depot on Saturday evening. When I first went there, probably, it was four o'clock. Persons that I was acquainted with there, stated there was going to be trouble. People were moving their goods from the houses around the depot. I asked them what the trouble would be, and they said they had been notified to move all their personal effects, as the mob would be down in a short time—to turn out, stating the hour.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did they say who notified them?

A. Persons that came down from the upper depot stated they were to burn it at a certain hour, I think five o'clock was the hour. My place of business was located just below it, and I kept at the lower part of the depot. Between five and six o'clock, there were seven or eight persons congregated at the lower part of the depot, trying to break open the depot. They talked as though they were going to set fire to the depot, and also burn up some cars that were across on Water street siding that was there. They broke open a car door and set fire to one of the cars. There were probably five or six of us standing there at the time. Several remonstrated with them for trying to set fire to the cars—objections were made. They had that on fire and it was kicked out. They got a keg of beer from some store or other, and about six or eight of them drank that keg of beer. They tried to start a fire in a second car, and Mr. Reeves, one of the party, told him he would put a ball through the man that put a match to that car. He asked me for a pistol at the time. He said he had none, but he made that remark to frighten them—the men were intoxicated. A number of us agreed to stick together in case any attack was made, that we could assist each other in resisting these drunken men that were trying to burn the depot and the cars. One young man hammered a good deal at the depot door, trying to get the door started to get in, but did not succeed. The crowd continued there probably an hour—from three quarters of an hour to an hour. Some gentlemen. Doctor Dixon among the rest, came down from the upper end of the depot, hearing that we were there, and, as I understand, they arrested the parties that were drinking and threatening the depot with destruction.