REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877. (continued 33)
Reading edition
Q. On your retreat from the round-house?
A. Yes; these men were shot from street cars, and from out of houses, and from behind chimneys. There was not any regular organized body, or a body sufficiently large to attack, until we got nearly to the arsenal, when—the Gatling guns I had placed between the two brigades, so that we could use them either in rear or at the front—when we opened with one of them, and dispersed the mob. We got to the arsenal, and I went ahead to see the commandant there, and went inside the gate, and went to his house and saw him, and told him who I was, and that my men were thoroughly worn out, and asked permission to form in the yard. The men were very thirsty, and the grounds were shady, and I thought we would wait there until I had orders from General Pearson. But we received positive orders from the commandant that we could not come in. I did not want any altercation with him, so I proceeded on eastward. I had received a communication from General Latta during the night, saying that he had made every attempt to feed us, and that it had been impossible, and I therefore thought that the best thing to do was to get something to eat. We had arrived within a short distance of Sharpsburg, when they told us if we came over there we could be fed. I concluded to do so, and went over there, and just as we got into the town, we were informed that two of the Fourteenth regiment, who had been on the hill, had been wounded seriously there by our shots, and that the people had no friendly feeling for us, and then I concluded we had better go on and wait for provisions, which I proceeded to do, when we were met by two gentlemen, who joined us, one belonging to the Pennsylvania railroad, I believe, who said we could be fed a little lower down, at Claremont, where they gave us coffee and rations; but the rations they brought were berries—not very suitable things for soldiers to eat. We proceeded to Claremont, and there, awaited orders.
Q. Claremont hospital or the work-house?
A. They are both together—that is the work-house or home they call it—it is the poor-house. We were fed, I presume, from both houses—they both sent us out provisions. It has been said that we were ordered to Torrens, and disobeyed orders in not going there; but the orders I received, in regard to Torrens, came just one week after the orders were sent. I got them one week afterwards from Colonel Guthrie, who handed them to me. Colonel Norris is reported to have given us some orders, which I positively deny. I never received them in any way, shape, or form. On the contrary Major Baugh, whom I left at the Union depot, with General Latta, reported to me out there. I asked him "have you any orders," and he said "no; I have not." I said then you will have to go right back to Pittsburgh, and get me some orders.
Q. Who was it?
A. Major Baugh.
Q. What time did he leave General Latta?
A. I cannot say; but he joined me about two o'clock—two and a half o'clock.
Q. On Sunday?
A. Yes.
Q. In the afternoon?
A. Yes. It has also been said that we marched in a very rapid way out that street. It is about four miles, and I left at ten minutes after eight, and arrived at Sharpsburg a little after ten, which amounts to two miles an hour, and in the army three miles was considered fair marching. The orders we received afterwards from General Latta were to proceed to Altoona, which, as soon as I could procure transportation, I attempted to do, and arrived at Blairsville, where I received a dispatch from Mr. Garner saying, I had better not come there, because he had made some arrangements with the rioters. I telegraphed that my orders were imperative, and that I was coming, provided I could get transportation. I got to Blairsville junction. I could not get transportation any further. I immediately telegraphed General Latta, Colonel Scott, and the Governor. I disembarked my troops, and remained there until I got orders to go back to Pittsburgh.
Q. It was on Saturday night you were ordered by General Pearson to enter the round-house? What time did General Pearson leave you?
A. About half past eight o'clock.
Q. What did he leave for?
A. For the purpose of seeing the mayor, for the purpose of getting us rations and ammunition.
Q. Did he leave you in general command after he left?
A. Yes. His instructions to me were to open any dispatches which might come for him, and hold on until I return, his words were.
Q. Hold on until I return?
A. I think those were his words.
Q. It was a verbal order?
A. Yes. He was standing in front of the company shops—inside the yard.
Q. Did you hear from him again that night?
A. I didn't hear from him until about one week.
Q. In his absence, would you have full command yourself?
A. I didn't consider I had full command, because he said he would be back in an hour, and I was waiting for him to return. When I found he didn't return, I opened communication with the Adjutant General of the State for him.
Q. What orders did you receive from him?
A. I received orders to hold on vigorously, that I would be reinforced by Colonel Guthrie's command, and that Colonel Rodgers' men would certainly join me before six o'clock in the morning.
Q. Did it occur to you to march out with your command at any time—out of the round-house—and disperse the mob gathered there?
A. That was discussed. I talked that over with my staff officers, at any rate, but we were ordered to remain there, and I didn't know—I expected General Pearson's return, and that he would bring us information about what was occurring outside. We had no information of any kind whatever. We couldn't tell whether there were ten thousand armed men in the town, or five hundred thousand. We knew that the force we had there was fully armed and had artillery, and we were outnumbered five to one.
Q. Who was it you sent to the Adjutant General?
A. A man named Sergeant Wilson, of the Jefferson cavalry, who was disguised.
Q. Did he bring you any report as to the number of the mob?
A. He didn't bring me any reports as to how many there were, and even if he had, I couldn't trust to a man simply passing through a crowd, because they were on every side. He said that the mob had vowed that they would burn us out or up—if they couldn't capture the place that they could burn us, and they were making arrangements to do that.
Q. What time did they begin to fire the cars?
A. The first I saw of the fire—I didn't know whether they were cars or buildings—but whatever they were, the first light I saw was about eleven o'clock. I may be mistaken in that, but I think it was.
Q. Could you see anything of the number engaged in the burning—the actual burning?
A. No; I couldn't see anything of the burning, because the buildings were on the other side—the Twenty-eighth street round-house was below us, and the buildings were above.
Q. Above Twenty-eighth street?
A. I mean west—nearer the Union depot.
Q. Didn't they burn east of you, also?
A. They might have burned east, but the first light I saw was there, and it seemed too far down for the cars.
Q. They kept burning down towards the Union depot?
A. I don't know. I couldn't see from where I was anything, except the illumination in the sky.
Q. Nor how many men were engaged in the burning?
A. No; on Liberty street and the street—I don't know the number of it—which would have run through the depot had it been prolonged—we could see men marching up and down that street, and could hear them giving commands along Penn street, which ran parallel with Liberty street, and we could see wagon loads of men coming in all the time.
Q. Did you send out any scouts?
A. I sent out two men of the Hutchinson battery, but they never returned. They said they would carry a dispatch to General Latta, and I wrote a note, but never heard of them afterwards. This scout returned, whose idea was that there were a great many, but he couldn't tell anything more than that, as he walked through the crowd. He could not tell whether there were five thousand or twenty thousand in the city—he could only see the street they were in. I thought if he could get back General Pearson might.
Q. You didn't deem it safe to undertake to attack the crowd during the night?
A. I thought I would be superseding my orders if I attempted it. I was ordered to remain there. At no time was I in command in Pittsburgh.
Q. In the absence of General Pearson, you were the highest in rank, or the senior general, were you not?
A. Yes; but I was ordered by him to remain where I was. It was not left discretionary with me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Is General Pearson your senior?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In his failure to return, would you not be justifiable in acting on your own judgment?
A. I communicated then with General Latta, and received a reply from him, saying they had made every attempt to provision us and get us ammunition, and that it was impossible, and knowing there were three regiments in Pittsburgh, and not knowing their demoralization—I didn't know they were so much demoralized as they were—if they couldn't communicate with us, I thought there must be a very strong force opposed to us, and my orders were to remain where I was.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. From General Latta?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. What time did you get those orders from General Latta?
A. I received two communications from him by the same man. One of them, I think, about eleven o'clock, and the other about one o'clock. I asked the man to out again, and he said he would not attempt it, that he had been stopped before, and that it was at the risk of his life. He would not attempt to go out again.
By Mr. Means:
Q. As a military man, you received a command from your senior, to hold your position, and you wouldn't have felt like doing anything else but to hold your position—you would have been liable to a court-martial, if you had disobeyed that order?
A. I would.
Q. The responsibility rested with your senior?
A. I told General Latta, in my note, which may have had some influence in his orders to me, that my men were terribly worn out, and had not had anything to eat for over twenty-four hours, and had not had any sleep for two nights, and I didn't think it would have been a wise thing with the amount of ammunition we had to attack that mob that night.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. General Latta had no power as a commanding officer, had he? His duties as Adjutant General were simply to marshal, and bring together the forces of the State—the militia forces, and when General Pearson was relieved or was absent, you would be the next general in command—would you not?
A. That is one way of viewing it. I would be, probably. A staff officer does not command troops; but General Latta was acting under the Governor or in his place, and you notice in the Governor's message, he blames me for disobedience of orders which I never received, saying I had refused to return to Pittsburgh by orders of General Latta.
Q. Did you understand that General Latta was commander-in-chief.
A. I did. I would have obeyed any command that General Latta had sent to me; and not only that, I solicited his commands—I asked him what I should do.
Q. What induced you to leave the round-house on Saturday morning?
A. The round-house was on fire, and the men were choking with smoke when we left there, and it was not more than twenty minutes after we left, when the whole thing was a cinder.
Q. How large a crowd did you encounter when you left the round-house?
A. When we left, we came out in perfect order. The moment we came out the crowd fled, and we had no difficulty until we had gone some three or four squares. The crowd had disappeared.
Q. Couldn't you have formed then, after driving the crowd?
A. There was no crowd to drive at that time. We didn't see any crowd except the crowd which ran. My idea was to go to some place where the men could get something to eat. The Third regiment had three rounds of ammunition, and I thought certainly, at the United States arsenal we could get ammunition, and the men could be fed, or we should certainly get ammunition, and get water.
Q. Did it occur to you that it would be good policy to go to the Union depot?
A. Yes; and two of my staff, Colonel Wilson and Colonel Pettit, both advised me to go; but I told them my orders are to go east out Penn avenue, and I am going to obey my orders.
Q. Those were the orders you received from General Latta?
A. Yes.
Q. But your own judgment directed you to take the other course, and go to Union depot?
A. It did.
Q. If you had been acting on your own judgment, should you have gone there?
A. If I had it to do over again, I should go there.
Q. That was your judgment at that time?
A. Yes; but I thought the next best thing was to go to the arsenal. I would then be carrying out my orders, and would remain where General Latta could further instruct me.
Q. You had gone some distance before the firing commenced on your troops—that firing from the house?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever ascertain who fired—have you ever been able to learn the names of the parties?
A. We ascertained a few. We killed a few, and I think that a policeman fired on us. Mr. Lennig, who was a member of the Washington Grays at the time, and who is a member of the bar here, when he went back to Pittsburgh, identified this man, and talked to him, and the man acknowledged it—that he did fire.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where did this policeman fire? When you went by the station-house?
A. We went by the station-house, but I didn't see them fire, but Mr. Lennig saw them fire near the cathedral.
Q. Did you see any policeman fire yourself?
A. No.
Q. Did Mr. Lennig?
A. He saw a policeman fire, and identified him when he went back to Pittsburgh the second time.
Q. When you arrived at the arsenal, did you enter at the gate?
A. I entered at the gate. The sentry there allowed me to enter, and showed me where Mayor Buffington was to be found, and I went to his quarters and saw him.
Q. Was he up at the time?
A. He was up. He came out of the house.
Q. How was he dressed when he came out?
A. In citizen's dress. I asked whether he was the commandant there, and he said he was. He was in citizen's clothes.
Q. Was he fully dressed?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell him your name?
A. My name and where we had been, and told him I wanted to bring the men in there. He said we couldn't come there, and I asked him where we could encamp.
Q. You are positive about giving him your name?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. And rank?
A. Yes; I had an officer with me who will corroborate it.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Whereabouts did you meet him?
A. Right at his house.
Q. At the door?
A. He came on to the steps of a little porch and stepped down to the ground.
Q. Whereabouts is his house situated from the gate as you enter?
A. Probably two hundred feet from the gate.
Q. On the right side of the road leading down through the grounds or the left?
A. It is about two hundred yards from the street where we marched out—where the sentry gate is. A path led down, and Major Burlington turned on his heel, and didn't take the trouble to say he was sorry, but immediately turned on his heel and left.
Q. Where did he go?
A. Back to his house.
Q. Did he afterwards come up to the gate?
A. I never saw him afterwards.
Q. Did you have any wounded at the gate?
A. Yes; we had some three or four men carried in there, and Lieutenant Ash had his leg amputated and died there.
Q. Did he tell you that he would take care of the wounded?
A. No; he never made any remark to me of that kind.
Q. Did Lieutenant Lyon make any such remark?
A. I never knew such an officer was there.
Q. How long did you remain inside of the grounds?
A. I don't think I was there over two minutes—maybe I was longer. The firing was quite heavy after I got in there, and I went down to join my command.
Q. How were you dressed when you met Major Buffington?
A. In a blouse and a cap, with two stars on it, and blue pants. One of my shoulder straps during the night had been torn down, and it hung, and I took it off.
Q. Was the other on?
A. No; I had taken both off when I found one of them was torn.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What request did you make of Major Buffington when you went there?
A. I told him we had been in the company's shops all night, and that we were burned out, and that the men were out of ammunition, and that I wanted something to eat, and wanted to form my men there until I could get some further orders.
Q. You wanted to form your men in the arsenal grounds?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he refuse?
A. Most peremptorily, and said that we could not come there. I asked where I could encamp or could bivouac, and he said that I couldn't come in there, but could go somewhere else. I said I was a total stranger in the city, and wanted somebody to direct me—nothing more than a civil question, and he said he didn't know, that I would have to go away, and turned on his heel and left.
Q. What excuse did he make, if any, for refusing you admission?
A. I think that he had very few men there. The purport was that he was afraid we might draw the fire of the mob. That was the impression left on my mind.
Q. Did he say anything about a large amount of valuable ammunition and stores?
A. Not to my recollection. He might have said so; but I don't recollect. I know he said he had no ammunition for us.
Q. Did he say he had artillery ammunition, but no ammunition for infantry?
A. I do not recollect that he did.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you rap at the door or call at the door, and meet him outside, or did he come out before you arrived at the house?
A. Two men were at the gate, and one ran ahead, and I think, told him. I think he rapped at the gate.
Q. Did you have any conversation with Lieutenant Lyon?
A. I do not remember seeing him.
Q. I understood you to say that you called at Colonel Scott's office, and was there shown the communication from General Latta?
A. Yes; I got my dispatch over the Pennsylvania railroad lines.
Q. Was it directed to Colonel Scott or to you?
A. To me.
Q. It went over their line?
A. Yes; all the time I was away we used their wires.
Q. Did you receive any orders from any one else before you left Philadelphia, than from General Latta?
A. No.
Q. Did you receive any communication from General Latta at Pittsburgh, while you were in the round-house, after General Pearson left you, before you sent a communication to him?
A. There was a communication, which came over the wires, directed to General Pearson. A dispatch which I did not understand, saying something about when the troops arrive, make disposition for them—a dispatch could not understand, directed to General Pearson, from General Latta.
Q. That was from General Latta?
A. Yes; but immediately after that the wires were cut, and we had no other communication.
Q. Did you send a communication to General Latta by a messenger, before you received the orders from him to hold the round-house?
A. I did. It was by the messenger whom I sent to General Latta that I received those orders.
Q. That was in reply to your communication?
A. Yes.
Q. There was no other communication from General Latta?
A. I sent him two. The first communication was—the purport of it was—that General Brinton had left there, and that we were suffering for ammunition and for rations, and also had but two friction primers. I have a copy of this, and one of the Sunday papers, I believe, copied it.
Q. That was the first?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you give us the original of that?
A. I think I can give the original—I can give you the original of one. The Sunday Republic published it.
Q. What was the second communication—the one you received and replied to from General Latta?
A. I received a reply to both from General Latta.
Q. Give us the nature of the second communication?
A. I cannot remember the exact phraseology of it.
Q. Give it in substance, as near as you can?
A. It was a mere reiteration, asking for ammunition, and asking for rations—saying that we must be provisioned—that the troops were in a terrible state, nearly starved, and suggesting in one of the dispatches, how they could get in there with their engines, that they might run down and we would try to have the gates ready for them to come in, and the engine, I believe, was subsequently loaded, and the engineer refused to take it.
Q. Did you try to convey the idea to General Latta, that your troops were unfit for duty?
A. No; I conveyed the idea, or attempted to, that they were worn out, not being properly cared for or rationed, and that I had no sufficient amount of ammunition. I tried to convey that idea.
Q. That they were demoralized?
A. No—I did not.
Q. Could there have been such a construction placed on your message?
A. No; I don't think so. A few of my men were not in the best condition, morally, but very few. I only placed them in another part of the building. I designated those.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Did you designate those in your message to General Latta?
A. I probably did.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were they officers or men?
A. A few of the men—none of the officers. But so far as the men were fatigued or worn out, I tried to convey that in the strongest terms.
Q. For the purpose of getting supplies?
A. For the purpose of getting something to eat and ammunition.
Q. Did General Latta say anything in his communications to you that you were left in command of the round-house, and that you were expected to act on your own discretion?
A. No; on the contrary, he gave me specific orders what to do, and when I left where to go.
Q. Did you expect to receive further orders from General Pearson when you received your communications from General Latta?
A. I cannot say that I expected to, although I would not have been surprised to have received them.
Q. Did you consider it your duty to take command of the force and to act at your own discretion after General Pearson had left you and you were not able to communicate with him?
A. No further than I did, because communications should have come the other way. I was ordered to do a certain thing, and it was possibly superseding my duty to send out an officer after orders. It would probably have been more soldierly for me to stay there and receive communications from my superior than to send after them.
Q. Didn't you consider it proper, as a military man, to exercise your own discretion in an emergency of that kind, and take the responsibility of it?
A. No; I do not think I did, nor do I yet. The responsibility rested on me to obey orders, and as I had no means of ascertaining what was going on outside, I resolved to hold that place as far as I could, and didn't move out until the men were nearly choked with the smoke. We held it for two hours longer than we were ordered to hold it.
Q. Was the round-house on fire when you left it?
A. It was.
Q. And the shops adjoining the round-house?
A. Yes; the machine shops adjoining the round-house were entirely on fire. The roof was on fire and the floors were saturated with oil and General Matthews sent to me two or three times saying that the smoke was so intense that they could scarcely stay there. Then I moved them out into the yard.
Q. The floors were saturated with oil?
A. Yes; it was not twenty minutes after leaving the place until it was a cinder.
Q. How did that place become saturated with oil—by the mob?
A. No; the employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company put it there while greasing the engines.
Q. Did any whisky or high wines run down into the round-house while you were there?
A. Some whisky ran into the cellar of the office while we were there. It was lower than the pavement, and when they threw the cars off the track there, some barrels got down on the pavement.
Q. Did it run down into the cellar?
A. Yes; into the cellar or basement where the telegraph batteries were stationed.
Q. Was the office connected with the round-house or the building you were in?
A. They were some of the buildings we were in, but not connected although not over three or four feet off them.
Q. Did you see Colonel Norris on your march from the round-house to Claremont?
A. I saw Wilson Norris after we had passed Sharpsburg, between there and Claremont.
Q. Did you receive any orders from him?
A. I have no recollection of receiving any orders from him, and I have questioned my staff who were around me at the time, and they have none.
Q. Neither verbal or written?
A. Neither verbal or written.
Q. Did you receive any orders from any one else before you reached Sharpsburg or Claremont?
A. No.
Q. No orders from any one to go to Torrens station during Sunday?
A. Whilst in the round-house, to proceed east out Penn Avenue, towards Torrens, from General Latta. I did not go there for this reason: Colonel Guthrie was to be at the outer depot at six o'clock in the morning, and we waited there until ten minutes after eight, waiting for him two hours and ten minutes. The suggestions which General Latta gave me were based on Colonel Guthrie's being at Torrens station, but considered I would only be exchanging places with Colonel Guthrie, and for that reason I concluded to go to the arsenal. In the second place, General Latta or the authorities had said it was impossible to ration us.
Q. Did you receive any communication from General Latta, or any other superior officer, before you got to Blairsville?
A. Yes; from General Latta, to proceed to Altoona, which we immediately proceeded to do.
Q. Through whom?
A. Through Major Baugh, whom I sent back to General Latta for instructions—sent him back to Pittsburgh.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. On Saturday afternoon, when the firing commenced—where did it commence?
A. The firing commenced from the Weccacoe Legion.
Q. Facing east?
A. Yes.
Q. It was the first firing from the troops?
A. The first firing came from there.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. From what direction did the stones and other missiles come?
A. They came from every direction.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Was there any pistol firing from the side of the hill?
A. After the firing commenced it was very hard to detect in which direction it came. It seemed to come in all directions, and the stones were striking against the muskets of the men as they held them up. It was very hard to detect where the firing came from.
Q. Was there any positive order given to fire?
A. I didn't hear it, and I didn't give it, and I don't think there was, further than the general order I gave, if we were attacked that we should defend ourselves.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was General Pearson present when the firing took place?
A. I think he was—not that I saw him, but he gave me the order to clear the tracks, and the time was so short after he gave the order before the firing commenced, that I do not see how he could arrive at Mr. Pitcairn's office before the firing took place, although I didn't see him myself. He gave me those orders, and I ordered the Weccacoe Legion, which had about seventy-five yards to go, and the whole time didn't occupy over two minutes.
Q. How was he dressed?
A. I think in full uniform—my impression is that he was. I think he was.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What do you mean by full uniform?
A. Blouse and cap—regular fatigue uniform.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Suppose he had turned around immediately after giving you the order and gone to Mr. Pitcairn's office, could he have got there before the firing took place?
A. I do not think so, but I may be mistaken.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did he wear a hat or a cap?
A. I cannot tell you, sir. It really didn't make sufficient impression on me, but I think he had a cap on. That is my impression, because I knew him in the army a long time, and he always used to wear a cap there.
Q. Had he a sword and belt on?
A. Yes; a sword and belt on.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Were you in the late war?
A. Yes.
Q. What rank did you occupy?
A. I went out as a private in the Second Pennsylvania cavalry, and afterwards was promoted to different grades to major of a regiment, and brevet lieutenant colonel at Five Forks. I served two years as personal aid to General Griffin, of the Fifth Army Corps.
Q. When did you go out?
A. In September, 1861, and left the army in June, 1866.
Q. What rank did you hold when you left?
A. I was major and brevet lieutenant colonel.
Adjourned, to meet at two o'clock to-morrow.
Philadelphia, Saturday, March 23, 1878.
Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled in the St. Cloud hotel, at two o'clock, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.
J. Ewing Mears, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At No. 1429 Walnut street, in this city.
Q. What is your profession?
A. That of a physician.
Q. State whether you were a member of the National Guard, and if so, what position you held at the time of the riots?
A. I was the division surgeon of the First division, National Guard, under command of General Brinton.
Q. State whether you accompanied the command of General Brinton to Pittsburgh, and on what day?
A. I left the city of Philadelphia on the morning of Saturday, the 21st of July, in company with General Brinton, and arrived at Pittsburgh shortly after the middle of the day of Saturday.
Q. Go on and relate just what occurred after your arrival at Pittsburgh?
A. I don't know whether I can state it as you wish, without questions from yourself. After our arrival at Pittsburgh, the troops were disembarked, and orders were given with regard to their march up towards the round-house, and I was ordered by General Brinton to establish the division hospital in the mail-room connected with the railroad station. It was nearly opposite to the outer telegraph station, as the depot existed prior to its destruction. Before the command left the depot, I had assigned to the different brigades and regiments medical officers, taking from some regiments officers who were in access of the needs of the regiments; in other words, I distributed medical officers to the different commands, in accordance with the orders of General Brinton.
Q. Did you accompany the command at Twenty-eighth street?
A. I didn't.
Q. Where were you yourself?
A. I was at the depot. My orders from General Brinton were, to establish the division hospital at the depot, to which the wounded, if any happened to be wounded, could be sent.
Q. Did you send out surgeons with the command—as you distributed them, they went out?
A. Yes; there were two surgeons with the First regiment, one surgeon connected with the Second brigade, and one surgeon who was not acting as such among the other companies.
Q. Did you remain at the Union depot during Saturday night?
A. No; I remained there until ten o'clock, then I left the depot, the object being to join the command in the round-house, if possible. I had, in the meantime, met the surgeon of the Pennsylvania railroad, Doctor Murdock, who was also surgeon of the West Penn hospital, and he informed me that some of the wounded of the division were in the hospital, and offered his services to me to assist, and also on behalf of the staff, the use of the hospital. In view of this fact, and as I had also completed my duty at the depot by sending all of the wounded to Philadelphia prior to ten o'clock, I left the depot to start to join General Brinton in the round-house, but being unable to do so by reason of the mob, I went to the hospital, where I found some of the command.
Q. How many wounded were brought to the Union depot?
A. Fifteen.
Q. Of the militia?
A. Yes.
Q. They were sent to Philadelphia?
A. Yes; I obtained from Mr. Cassatt a special car for that purpose.
Q. How were the different men wounded?
A. The majority were wounded by small Smith & Wesson balls—balls that belong to the ordinary pocket revolver, and the gun shot wounds were all in the lower extremities.
Q. Were any wounded with stones or clubs?
A. They were wounded both with bullets, and also with clubs and stones, the majority being wounded with bullets, and as they stated, the wounds being given to them by persons under the cars, the result of that being that the wounds were in the lower extremities. Some had scalp wounds, received from clubs and stones, and some of the wounds in the lower extremities were also from clubs or stones. I should say that 1 moved the hospital from the mail-room, which I had taken, into the hotel, and took for that purpose the two large reading-rooms of the hotel. There I dressed the wounds of those sent to me, and sent them home when I finished the work.
Q. On Sunday, where were you?
A. On Sunday morning, at seven and a half o'clock, I left the West Penn hospital, and came into the depot. I was aware then that the command had left the round-house, that is, I was so informed, and I came into the hotel for the purpose of getting the medical stores, and also for the purpose of getting means of conveyance to the command. I had received a requisition the afternoon before, from one of the surgeons for lint and medical stores, and I had purchased some the night before in a drug store, at Pittsburgh.
Q. The details we don't care for—just simply the number of wounded, and if you heard the firing, and was with the command at the time?
A. I didn't hear the firing, and there were more wounded than I saw, because some didn't come to the depot.
Q. Do you know the number of the wounded altogether?
A. I have endeavored to ascertain that, but have failed thus far. I understood there were about twenty-eight.
Q. How many were killed?
A. As far as I can ascertain, three were killed, two instantly, and one died from the result of a gun-shot wound.
Q. Did you go with the command when it retreated out Penn avenue, and across the river?
A. I followed the command as closely as I could, and joined them after they had crossed the river.
Q. At what time?
A. Ten and a half o'clock.
Q. Were you dressed in uniform?
A. No.
Q. In citizen's clothes?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have any trouble in reaching the command?
A. No; I was not interfered with, although I drove through the mob. I had with me a guide, a member of one of the cavalry companies of Pittsburgh, but he knew nothing of the country after passing the arsenal. I acted on my own responsibility. I had received an order from General Brinton the evening before, about joining the command, and was directed to join him in citizen's clothes.
Q. Did you stop at the arsenal?
A. I did.
Q. Did you see Major Buffington?
A. No.
Q. Or Lieutenant Lyon?
A. No.
Q. Did you see Lieutenant Ash?
A. I didn't see him.
Q. Did you know that Lieutenant Ash was there?
A. I didn't at that time.
Q. You reached your command in safety?
A. Yes; with the stores I had taken with me. I had a wagon and a horse, and I placed them in the wagon, and took them to the command.
Q. Are there any other facts that you wish to state? State whether you heard any orders given by General Latta to General Brinton?
A. I heard orders dictated to his secretary or to an officer in his room—I did.
Q. At what place?
A. At the Union Depot hotel.
Q. At what time?
A. About eight o'clock on Sunday morning.
Q. What were they?
A. As near as I can remember them—I was not the officer supposed to hear them, but they were given in an ordinary tone of voice—the order was congratulatory to General Brinton on his retreat from the round-house, as to his generalship in getting out of the round-house, and upon his march out Penn square to the arsenal. That is a portion of the order I distinctly remember. Further, when I asked General Latta where I should join the command, he told me to go to the arsenal.
Q. Did you have any conversation with General Latta at that time?
A. I asked him where the command was, and how to get there.
Q. Did you hear any other command given by General Latta to General Brinton?
A. I did not. I met Major Norris returning from the command. He had joined them, and I asked him where they were, and he said on the hill, and that they were going to the poor-house. He said to me nothing at all in regard to any other destination. This hill, I suppose, was a quarter of a mile after the bridge had been crossed—after crossing the river.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you have any conversation with citizens of Pittsburgh, or come in contact with them?
A. I did, on Saturday night. I had taken, fortunately, a letter of introduction to a druggist in Pittsburgh, and I went to his drug store to make a purchase.
Q. Just state whether the citizens of Pittsburgh showed sympathy with the strikers?
A. Yes; most decidedly.
Q. Their sympathies were with the strikers?
A. Yes.
Q. And they were hostile to the troops?
A. Most decidedly. I had conversations with a number of medical men, and I was surprised to hear them, as medical men, express their sympathy with the action of the rioters.
Q. In plain words, they said that the strikers were doing right?
A. Yes; they approved their action.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In what way did they manifest or express sympathy with the rioters?
A. In this way: they thought they were taking the proper action to redress the wrongs they had suffered.
Q. Did they say that the strikers were taking proper action?
A. They said that they thought they were doing right.
Q. What citizens said that?
A. I do not remember the names. I met one gentleman on the street. He was kind enough to conduct me back to the hotel, it being night, and I not knowing the way. He didn't know who I was or my business, and expressed himself very freely about the matter.
Q. Was he a business man?
A. I do not know that. He appeared to be a gentleman—he was dressed as such.
Q. Living in the city of Pittsburgh?
A. I suppose he did, sir.
Q. At the drug store, did you meet any citizens more than the druggist himself?
A. I didn't, because he advised me not to stay there long—that it would not be desirable for them to know who I was.
By Mr. Means:
Q. The druggist advised you not to stay there long—that he did not want the strikers to know you were in his place of business?
A. Or the citizens even to know it. It was rather out of regard for my safety, than possibly for himself. I went through the streets of Pittsburgh, when they were breaking into the stores and seizing arms, and the citizens looked on that indifferently, and no efforts were made to stop that.
Q. You went through the city of Pittsburgh, in disguise for your own safety, for fear of bodily harm you might receive.
A. I went into the streets of Pittsburgh in citizen's dress, in the first place, because I had been warned by General Latta, in regard to wearing my uniform. He advised me to remove it. He said it was not safe even for himself, or anybody connected with the military, to appear in uniform. That it would probably attract the mob to the hotel. I did it at his suggestion, and also, when I reflected on it, for my own safety.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where was that drug store?
A. I cannot tell you where, it was night.
Q. Do you remember the street?
A. I do not. I can go to it in daytime.
Q. Do you know whether it was the proprietor of the drug store with whom you had the conversation?
A. It was the clerk.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Did you get an introduction to the proprietor?
A. I did not.
Q. Who was the letter addressed to?
A. To Mr. Ottinger. I took it, thinking I should possibly want to purchase something.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. You cannot give the street?
A. I didn't see it in the daytime at all.
Q. Can you give us the language—what he said?
A. I cannot, because I didn't stop very long at his store. I had sent him an order, and asked that it should be filled, and I went for the order. It was not completed, and it kept us a few minutes. Further, to show the hostility to the troops, when I was taking the wounded to the cars, the mob had got into the station, and were jeering us and making use of insulting remarks, such as to show that they were gratified that they were going home in that condition.
Thomas A. Scott, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State what your official connection with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company is?
A. I am president of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company.
Q. You have held that position for a number of years?
A. I have been connected with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, in various capacities, over twenty-six years.
Q. State, if prior to the strike that occurred in July last, you had any information that such a strike was to take place, or had any reason to apprehend a strike?
A. We had no information on the subject. I was on that evening up the river Delaware eighteen miles, visiting some friends—my daughters' family—and had gone to bed about ten o'clock, and heard nothing of the strike, or anything connected with it, until about eleven o'clock, when one of our officers from West Philadelphia, came up and advised me that there was trouble on the road, and wanted me to come to West Philadelphia. I did so, and arrived there a quarter before twelve, on Thursday night. At that time I had no intimation of any possible trouble with any of our people.
Q. Had you any knowledge of the existence of an organization called the Trainmen's Union?
A. Yes; I had heard that there was such an organization. There was some discontent about salaries and other matters connected with railroad management, and I had an interview with some engineers and firemen a few weeks before, and went over the whole subject—went over the whole ground with them. I suppose it was a committee of twenty or thirty altogether; and after hearing all that was to be said on both sides, we finally agreed that it was one of the inevitable things that could not be avoided, but would be remedied as soon as the condition of the country got into a more prosperous condition. After the committee retired from the interview, they came back again with a letter directed to me, expressing just what I said, in substance, to you; therefore I had no idea that there was discontent among our people likely to lead to anything like the results attained afterwards—like the difficulty that resulted in Pittsburgh.
Q. What complaints did this committee make when they waited on you?
A. They wanted to have the ten per cent. restored.
Q. What time was that?
A. It may have been three or four weeks before the difficulty occurred.
Q. It was after the 1st of June—after the ten per cent. reduction?
A. After the notice was given.
Q. Did they have any other complaint to make than about the ten per cent. reduction?
A. They discussed the question of privilege to ride over the road, and about being allowed for time when off duty, and several things of that character, all of which were discussed in the most friendly way with the committee, and I supposed that the committee went away perfectly satisfied. They so expressed themselves in writing to me—perfectly satisfied with the action of the company.
Q. Did they make any objections to the classification—what is called the classification?
A. They discussed that question with me, and they wanted to get some changes made in that. That had been agreed upon with the engineers and firemen some years before.
Q. They were satisfied on that point?
A. Entirely.
Q. Had you heard of any dissatisfaction on that point from any other source than from this committee?
A. I had heard nothing about the question at all.
Q. Had there been any complaints made prior to the one made by this committee on that subject?
A. A year or two before the question had been discussed. I have always been in the habit when our people come to state their grievances or supposed grievances to hear them, and discuss the matter, and do what we think right about it. I believe I never have declined to receive our men, and talk over matters connected with the company.
Q. After the order was issued to run double-headers, did you hear of any dissatisfaction?
A. Not until this Thursday night. That that was one cause of dissatisfaction.
Q. How long before that was the order issued to run double-headers?
A. I cannot give the time, but it was, I think, a few weeks—but how long, I don't know. It is a matter of detail management of the respective divisions that scarcely ever comes to me at all.
Q. Do you know what date it went into effect?
A. No; I do not.
Q. From whom did you get the first information that a strike existed there at Pittsburgh?
A. From Mr. Charles E. Pugh, one of our superintendents at West Philadelphia, who came up for me to Andalusia, or near there.
Q. What time did he get there?
A. At a quarter before eleven o'clock.
Q. On the 19th?
A. Yes; on Thursday night.
Q. When did you get the next information?
A. When I got to the depot at West Philadelphia.
Q. What was the character of that?
A. That there was an outbreak among the men on all the roads extending rapidly over all the lines in the country, and that there was not a sufficient police force in the city of Pittsburgh, to manage the matter, and that the sheriff had been called out or called upon by somebody to organize a posse comitatus, and I believe he did make some effort about it.
Q. That he was called upon by some officer of your road?
A. No; but by some authorities of the city of Pittsburgh; but that, I cannot say. I was not there. That they called upon him, but just when they called upon him, I do not know.
Q. That information was communicated to you?
A. Yes; by telegraph.
Q. Were you informed that the city authorities and the sheriff were not able to suppress the strike or the riot there?
A. Yes; I was informed of that fact—that the sheriff had called upon the Governor of the State for aid.
Q. What time did you get that information?
A. Three or four o'clock in the morning.
Q. From whom did you get the information?
A. From our officers at Pittsburgh. I think probably from Mr. Pitcairn.
Q. Had you any communication with the Governor?
A. Yes; I telegraphed to the Governor after he had been called upon and given the general results of the trouble—I telegraphed. I thought it was very important for him to be back in the city at the earliest moment he could come. That I thought the peace of the whole State was threatened.
Q. What time did you send that telegram?
A. I think that was sent the next day some time.
Q. On Friday?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you see General Latta before he left for Pittsburgh?
A. Yes. He was there when I got to West Philadelphia. He was very much disturbed. He told me that the Governor, before leaving, had left power and authority with him to exercise his authority in case of disturbance. I asked what he proposed to do about the matter, and he said he proposed to go to Pittsburgh, and be governed by circumstances. If the Governor was called upon, that he would do what was necessary and proper to be done, under the circumstances, to preserve the order of the State. I think it was about a quarter before twelve o'clock on Thursday night when I saw him. I expressed to him the importance of preserving the highways of the country intact, as I understood it and believed it.
Q. When did you first learn that they had ordered the troops out—when the Adjutant General had ordered them out?
A. I understood about four o'clock Friday morning that the sheriff of Allegheny county had called for troops.
Q. And you understood then that General Latta would call them in pursuance of the call of the sheriff?
A. General Latta told me if called on, that he had abundance of troops in the city of Pittsburgh to take care of anything that might arise—under General Pearson.
Q. Did you have any communication with General Pearson?
A. No; if General Pearson asked me any question about transportation of troops, I told him what was proper under the circumstances; but I do not recollect of having any from him.
Q. Had you ever had any strikes on that road prior to this time?
A. We had a strike in 1860, when I was general superintendent of the road—a small affair that didn't last but a few days—principally among some of the engineers and some of the shop men. But I believe we had no strike or trouble with our people from that time up to the occurrences last summer.
Q. What steps were taken at that time to control it by the company?
A. Simply notice to the men engaged in it, that if the wages or arrangements of the company did not suit them, to peaceably go away.
Q. Was there any attempt, at that time, to molest or disturb the property of the company?
A. Nothing at all, except stoppage of the trains.
Q. There never has been any strike before where there was an attempt to destroy property?
A. No.
Q. Can you give us the amount, or an estimated amount, of the destruction of property at Pittsburgh?
A. Well, I think it is in the neighborhood—you mean what property?
Q. Belonging to the company?
A. About $2,000,000—various things we were interested in.
Q. Does that cover the merchandise?
A. Not at all.
Q. Simply the actual property of the company?
A. Yes; and it does not cover the consequent loss from the interruption of our business.
Q. But you include the destruction of cars, and engines, and shops, and tracks?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know how many cars were destroyed?
A. I have not got the number at the end of my fingers, but it is in the annual report of the company. It is all stated there, sir. I think it is summed up in that report, that the probable loss, by reason of this trouble, was about $5,000,000 to our company and to the community at large in Pittsburgh and the community elsewhere owning property in transit.
Q. In consequence of the riot that existed there?
A. Yes.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. That includes the merchandise?
A. Yes; it is an estimated amount of what we thought about the right thing—as near as we could get at it.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did General Brinton telegraph you at Blairsville Junction that he, General Brinton, could clear the tracks with the force under his command?
A. I think General Brinton did telegraph me; but I do not recollect the details of it at all.
Q. At Blairsville Junction?
A. That he thought with troops properly located he could take care of it.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. In the interview you had with this committee, they stated their views on the reduction of ten per cent.?
A. That and several other questions connected with it.
Q. When did this ten per cent. reduction take place?
A. In June.
Q. Had there been any prior reduction?
A. Yes; in 1873, we made a reduction of ten per cent.—following the panic.
Q. Then in June you made another reduction?
A. Of ten per cent. It applied to everybody in the company—to men on the track, and in the shops, and on the engines, and in the depots, and every officer of the company.
By Mr. Yutzy:
Q. To all the employés?
A. To all getting above a dollar per day.
By Mr. Larrabee:
Q. Was this last reduction made in pursuance of any arrangement with any other road?
A. Not at all.
Q. Was there not a meeting of representatives of the trunk lines in Chicago in May sometime, at which matters were talked over?
A. I don't know—I was not there.
Q. Was there a representative of your company present?
A. There may have been. I don't know nor whether they had up the question of compensation to the men. Our action on the subject was based on the general results of the business of the company, and the necessity of some positive thing being done in aid of the company and in aid of the men as well.
Q. The action of your company, in this reduction, was solely by yourselves, without any understanding?
A. With the other trunk lines?
Q. Yes.
A. None whatever. I think they didn't make any reduction until July.
Q. Didn't the New York Central make a reduction about that time?
A. I think on the 1st of July.
Q. And the Baltimore and Ohio about that time?
A. Somewhere along there. I don't know the dates exactly.
Q. This reduction was arrived at by yourselves without any understanding with other roads?
A. Yes; we thought it proper to be done. I think, and believe now, that we were paying men then twenty per cent. above the average price paid for an equivalent amount of labor anywhere else.
Q. Do you remember the prices paid the trainmen?
A. I don't recollect, but I can get you the data if you want them. I don't recollect the details. Our wages differ a little on different divisions—they are not entirely uniform. There are some places where the living is more expensive, and there the compensation is higher. They are paid according to locality. There are some places where the cost of living is a great deal less than in others, and a difference is made in wages. It is always been so both on the track and roadway and the trainmen also.
Q. Do you know whether arrangements were made at Chicago to pool the earnings of the three trunk lines?
A. An attempt was made.
Q. But never carried out?
A. No.
Q. You don't know whether this question of wages was discussed at that meeting?
A. I don't know.
Q. You had no report made to you by the representative of your road who was there?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. To pool the entire earnings of the road?
A. No; the competitive business to avoid disagreements, and to put all the shippers on a perfect equality, and get a fair living compensation for doing the work to be done. Through excessive competition, very often business was done resulting in a loss to the companies. They did the work for a great deal less than cost, and in doing, that with certain kinds of traffic, they did violence and injustice to other people at other points. That was one of the troubles with the city of Pittsburgh—perhaps their chief trouble.
Q. The purpose of it was to secure uniformity of freights?
A. And compensation to everybody.
Q. To shippers, too?
A. To shippers. In the early part of last year, the through business of the company was done below actual cost to every road that did it. During the first six months of last year, not a farthing was made on through competitive freight by any line.
Q. Was that agreed upon at that meeting in Chicago?
A. They made an effort, but didn't succeed in having it carried out practically.
Q. The trouble was in one line cutting down freights?
A. That is the allegation always—that somebody is cheating somebody else.
Q. It was attempted to carry it into effect?
A. Yes.
Q. For how long a time did you work at it?
A. Three or four months, probably, but finally it all broke up. On west-bound traffic we have an arrangement for a division of the business under low established rates, by which everybody is placed on a perfect equality. New York, a certain price, Philadelphia so much below that, and Baltimore, so much below that. Under that arrangement, the lines have been doing very much better than when in open warfare. I believe now that every west-bound shipper is placed on an entire equality.
Q. You have referred to Pittsburgh. Had there been complaints by shippers in Pittsburgh about discrimination?
A. Always.
Q. What were the complaints?
A. That through goods were carried at a less rate per ton per mile than their goods, and that we ought to be able to control that. I think I have tried diligently for the last five years of my life to get an arrangement or an agreement by which all these questions could be adjusted, and these discriminations of every character wiped out, and I went even to this trouble: I met a committee of merchants and manufacturers of the city of Pittsburgh, and went over the whole case with them. I said to them: gentlemen, there are times when it cannot be controlled. If we succeed in making this west-bound arrangement we will put all your interests here, so far as relates to the western markets, on a fair equality with everything that comes into competition with you from the east. I said so far as we are concerned, we have a strong desire to do just what you want done, and to that end we are working, and we will do anything we can do to bring it about; and if it should happen in the future that we must go through other and more violent wars than we have now passed, we will still agree that your trade in competition with like trade—that your manufacturing interests here shall be protected by at least ten per cent. less than the aggregate rates from points east of you. They expressed themselves very well satisfied with that arrangement.
Q. Can you give us any of the methods you have tried for the purpose of preventing those complaints by the people of Pittsburgh?
A. The general endeavor is to agree upon rates, and to adhere to them absolutely. We never charge in any case exceeding the rate charged from a distant point. In this arrangement, I referred to, for the city of Pittsburgh, I told them, in any possible state of things, we would make their rates ten per cent. less than any rate prevailing from any point east of them—Philadelphia, New York, or Baltimore. It sometimes happened that competition ruled so strong that we carried things from New York to Chicago lower than we did from Pittsburgh, and when engaged in one of these little troubles, the rates are frequently changed a dozen times in a day. Our aim always has been to put all the shippers on our road and all the intermediate shippers on rates as low as competition might force at the extremes. We think it is right, and endeavor to do it. There have been isolated cases when it is not done, as it may happen that a shipper from New York to-day will have a low rate on some specific kind of goods, while the shipper from Pittsburgh would be paying the rate that prevailed the day before. But whenever such cases came to our notice we gave a drawback. Sometimes they never came to our notice, but have been nursed up, and made a cause of trouble and complaint. Whenever we found the difference too great we always paid them back.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. By rebates?
A. Yes.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. There never has been a time when the price charged from Pittsburgh was greater than from any point beyond?
A. It never was the policy of the company that it should be so, but it has frequently happened in isolated cases that such was the case.
Q. Has that been the case for any length of time?
A. Never—not for any length of time.
Q. For a month at a time?
A. Oh, no—a day or two.
Q. How did freights compare in July last with what they had been for three months preceding that time?
A. They had been extremely low the whole of the year up to that time, and were then extremely low on east-bound business. On west-bound business on the 1st of July that arrangement was made to have a division of the business.
Q. How were freights after the strike was over?
A. On west-bound business, the arrangement that went into operation then is in operation now. On east-bound, every two or three weeks they have the same chronic trouble. After making an agreement, they violate it and break down, but as a general thing, the rates are better now than they were a year ago.
Q. How did rates compare the fore part of last season with the year before, at the same time?
A. Very much lower. Two reasons brought it about. First a short crop in the fall of 1876, when there was very little freight to come east—nothing at all equal to the facilities of the various companies, the result being a scramble and competition to get it, and prices ruled away below the cost of doing the work.
Q. How did the amount of freight or tonnage during the months of May and June, 1877, compare with the months of May and June, 1876?
A. It was not so heavy, but after the harvest of last year—and it was a heavy crop all over the west—and in consequence of the European war, which cause a demand, the roads had better tonnage.
Q. Was there any difference in the local freights?
A. They were greater in quantity all along our line. The crops were better.
Q. How did the local rates compare with the previous year?
A. They were on the same general basis as the previous year. I don't think there was any change, unless we got into those violent competitions, when we would reduce our local as well as through rates.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you ship goods or freight cheaper from New York to San Francisco than from Pittsburgh to San Francisco, such as steel or iron?
A. I think that has occurred a number of times. The rates are made by the Union and Central Pacific roads. At New York they come into competition with the Pacific mail and sailing vessels around Cape Horn, and on account of that competition, the rates are made low.
Q. Less from New York to San Francisco than from Pittsburgh?
A. Yes.
Q. Has it been the custom on your road to get a larger rate from New York than from Pittsburgh?
A. Yes; on our road we get a larger rate from New York than from Pittsburgh.
Q. Do you mean per ton per mile?
A. No. I mean the aggregate rate. The Pacific road fixes its own prices from Chicago west-bound.
Q. Can you not ship freight at a less rate per ton per mile for a long distance than for a short?
A. I think we can. It saves the intermediate handling.
Q. Do you know of any instance where iron or steel has been shipped from Pittsburgh to New York and from there to San Francisco by rail?
A. No.
Q. Because the rates would be cheaper?
A. No. I have understood of one or two cases where drugs were sent from Pittsburgh to New York, and these came into competition with drugs shipped by ocean, and were then shipped on back.
Q. Did the cheap rates at New York arise from competition with water transportation?
A. Yes; at sea. That only applies to heavy articles, about which there is no question of time or of insurance. It may apply to heavy drugs; but it does not apply to dry goods or groceries, or things like that.
Q. Are your local freight rates governed by your through rates in any way?
A. To the extent that whenever through rates come down below the local charges we reduce the local charges.
Q. Proportionately?
A. No; but we do not exceed on our local business the amount charged on other roads.
Q. Do you reduce the rates on local traffic when you reduce them on other traffic in equal proportion?
A. No. Say the rate from Chicago to New York is fifty cents, and the rate from Philadelphia or Harrisburg is fifty cents, and the rate from New York should be reduced to forty or thirty, we reduce the other rate.
Q. To the same per centage?
A. The same gross rate.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there any strike in the city of Philadelphia among your employés?
A. There was some striking among the men on our trains.
Q. When did that first break out?
A. Probably a day or two after the trouble at Pittsburgh. I think the trouble occurred here on Friday night or Saturday.
Q. Among what class of your employés.
A. The trainmen entirely.
Q. Did it include the engineers?
A. No.
Q. The brakemen, firemen, and conductors?
A. Yes; the trainmen—on freight trains.
Q. Did they interfere with your property in any way here?
A. They declined to run the trains out, and said their lives were in danger, and the result was the trains didn't go for several days. It didn't apply to the Northern Central road or the New York division.
Q. Did they attempt to interfere with the property of the road?
A. Destroy it?
Q. Yes?
A. Not at all. I think they felt themselves bound by some organization that seemed to have control of them, not to do anything or allow others to take their places, and, therefore, it was simply a stand off policy—the trains didn't go. But they attempted no destruction of property at all.
Q. Did it become necessary for you to call on the civil authorities here?
A. Yes. There was a great deal of threatening all over town in regard to the possibility of serious trouble, and we had some trouble at the yards in West Philadelphia. Engines were taken from trains.
Q. What steps did you take for protection here?
A. I sent word down to the mayor's office about this difficulty on the lines of the road, and that we feared that some effort might be made to destroy our property, and that, therefore, we wanted the protection due to every interest in our State and city—nothing more. He organized a police force. A great many of the people of the city were alarmed about the situation of affairs, and, I believe, they gave the mayor authority to take on additional policemen, which he kept employed for some days, until the threatened trouble was all over. I think his whole action in the management of the police force under him was very efficient and thorough.
Q. Did he respond promptly to that call?
A. Yes; and succeeded in maintaining order entirely.
Q. There was no trouble in maintaining peace and order?
A. No; excepting the exercise of a great deal of vigilance and care with a strong force.
Q. Was it necessary for the policemen to make any attack on the crowd?
A. I think nothing serious. They had several little disturbances. The crowd was armed and threatened trouble and all that.
Q. Did the crowd assemble in very large numbers?
A. I have been told from two to five thousand people; but they persuaded them to disperse. I do not think there was any trouble at any time. The mayor's policy was to prevent crowds from assembling, to prevent disturbance, and in the conduct of the whole matter I think he showed great wisdom and great efficiency.
Q. What day did you start your trains here?
A. From here west?
Q. Yes?
A. I think on the 27th or the 28th.
Q. Did you meet with any trouble in getting men to start them?
A. No.
Q. Was there any resistance made by the crowd?
A. Not here.
Q. Was it necessary to have any guard to protect the first trains that started?
A. Of military?
Q. Or policemen?
A. No. There were men here about the yards and depots to see that the peace was preserved, but they made no arrests, I believe, in connection with people in leaving trains. They did make arrests of some people for destroying some oil cars.
Q. On the Pennsylvania railroad?
A. On the junction road.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you, as president of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, at any time, make any requisition on the State authorities for troops to protect your property?
A. Not at all. The State authorities were called out, as I understood, on a requisition from the county of Allegheny.
Q. By the sheriff?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you any knowledge of any officer of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company calling on the Governor for troops?
A. None whatever. They, no doubt, suggested to the Governor of the State that it was his duty to put the force in such a position as to preserve peace and order.
Q. Did you understand that you, as president of a railroad company or as a citizen, have the right to call on the Governor for troops, and that the Governor has a right to respond to that?
A. No.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. In the case of an outbreak, such as existed there, to whom would you apply for help?
A. To the civil authorities of the place, and they, in their turn, are obliged, as I understood the law, to make the requisition. I do not understand that I, as president of a company, have the right to make a requisition on the Governor, but I certainly have the right to notify him. I have no right to make a requisition.
Q. You have the right to notify him under the act of 1864?
A. I have no reference to any particular act. I never understood that a railroad company or a mining interest or anything else had a right to make a requisition. I always thought they had the right to state their case, and ask that some action should be taken, letting the mayor or sheriff, as the case may be, make his own requisition.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. It has been charged by some that the troops were ordered by the Pennsylvania Railroad Company in their movements?
A. I think if you will ask the military officers—General Brinton—he will tell you that he moved his troops according to his superior officer's directions, and not at the direction of any railroad man. I guess he was careful to do that. I certainly never asked them to move troops to any particular place or to do any particular thing.
Q. But you conferred with the officers or advised them?
A. No; I conferred with the Governor of the State, and he gave his orders through his officers. I didn't give them any orders. I did give them every facility they asked for, just as we did with the Government of the United States when they got into the rebellion, when we stopped all our business for a time, and gave our road completely to carry men and equipments, and whatever they might require for the field or elsewhere. We gave them entire control of our road.
Q. Do you say you never made any requisition on the State authorities for protection?
A. We stated our case to them, and said we are in great danger, and the highways of the State are in great danger, and we want that protection which it is our right to have.
Q. As every other citizen of the State, you would have the right to demand protection?
A. I think we all pay for peace and order to be preserved in the State, and it ought to be.
By Mr. Engelbert:
Q. Then you never did dictate to the Governor, or to any one in his absence, what to do with the military?
A. Not a bit. I was especially careful not to do anything of that kind.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. State if you have been able to ascertain or to gather facts sufficient to form a judgment as to what produced the strike?
A. I think the trouble originated through the discontent of men all over the country—not confined to railroads. Every other branch in some how was directly or indirectly connected with the outbreak, looking for compensation of an increased character, without regard to whether parties were able to pay it or not, and altogether, I think that whole movement was made up—either agreed upon or concerted and agreed upon under their own mode of organization. I think they took this abatement of ten per cent. as one pretext for making the outbreak.
Q. What facts have you that lead you to believe it was a concerted movement or agreed upon?
A. Simply their action, and the results spread before us everywhere.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Is the pay of railroad employés less, as a general thing, than that of any other ordinary avocation?
A. No; I think it is greater; and I think it ought to be a little greater, because the men are subject to risks in railroading, that they are not subject to in ordinary work; therefore, I think it is the duty of railroad companies to pay a little more for that service than is paid for an equal amount of labor in the ordinary channels of life. I think we pay twenty per cent. more to-day than men receive in the various other channels of business.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Are they subject to greater expense than others?
A. Yes; by reason of going from their homes, their extra cost of living is something.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. And in one sense you call it skilled labor, in addition to the risks they run?
A. Yes; we want men understanding their duties to run our trains and take care of the property and of the people in their charge. We want that in all the men, and, I think, as a general thing, we have as good a set of men as was ever organized.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Was there any complaint among the men about their not being able to work full time?
A. Yes; when the depression of business came so strong, we undertook to retain more men in our service than were needed to do the work, and we did that very often at the request of men—of the older men, in order that younger men might have an opportunity to get some work and get a living out of the general result. Instead of men getting ten hours work they would probably get an average of six, seven, or eight hours, and in that way the work was distributed among a greater number of people.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You did that instead of discharging them?
A. Yes; the result of that was that it made the average low, and was a cause of complaint, and when this thing was all over, we had simply to compromise and in giving more hours of work, consequently, to do with fewer men.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Looking at the matter from the experience you have, was that plan of retaining more men than you could give full work to a good one?
A. No; it caused dissatisfaction to the men, and caused them to complain, I think unreasonably and unjustly against the company, because the company, so far as it was concerned, was perfectly willing to pay that number of dollars for the service done, but it was distributed among so many that instead of their getting fifty dollars, say, per month, they would get thirty or forty, perhaps. Very many of the oldest men had their sympathies aroused in favor of men, and wanted them retained even if they could not get full time, and asked us to do that thing in many instances; but it resulted just in that discontent I have mentioned. Now we have changed our policy, and endeavor to give our men nearly as full time as we can, and in that give our oldest men and thoroughly loyal men, of course, the preference.
Q. From your experience and knowledge of the number of railroad men in the country, is there a surplus?
A. There is to-day.
Q. There are men out of employment?
A. Yes; the depression in the iron business, and coal business, and lumber business, and everything else, makes less traffic, and a greatly decreased number of trains. This decrease has made a corresponding decrease in the demand for men. We hope one day that it will change, and we can take on all our people and pay them better wages than now; but we cannot do it until the country becomes more prosperous than now.
Q. Did this number of men out of employment have a tendency to produce restlessness among them, and bring on the trouble?
A. There is no question about that. It was the want of employment that made the labor of the country dissatisfied. I think if we could set men to work making a living for themselves and their families, I think there would be no trouble about it. I think it is the best law that can be made.
Q. It was more that, in your judgment, that caused the trouble than low wages?
A. I think so.
George R. Sowden, sworn:
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I live in west Philadelphia, No. 1421 Locust street.
Q. What is your business?
A. I am a practicing lawyer.
Q. Go on and state what knowledge you have of the occurrences at Pittsburgh last July, and the movements of the militia?
A. During last summer I was colonel of the Third regiment of infantry, connected with the First brigade of the First division. I was in the brigade commanded by General Mathews. On the evening of Friday, July 20, I got a dispatch from him, asking me to assemble my regiment, and report for duty as soon as possible at the West Philadelphia depot. I got the dispatch at Bryn Mawr. I got to Philadelphia at nine o'clock, and sent out dispatches to my field officers and staff officers and company commanders, and I assembled part of my regiment there, and at two o'clock of Saturday, July 21, I went on the train to Pittsburgh. We reached there about two o'clock on Saturday. There the troops were ordered out of the train, and we moved up the railroad track. I was on the left of Colonel Benson, and in my rear was the Weccacoe Legion and the Keystone Battery. They were dragging the Gatling guns at that time without horses, but it was found impossible to drag the guns over the railroad ties, and men were detailed from the three regiments to assist in hauling the guns. I sent a detail for that purpose. After we got in to the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street—I do not know in the meantime what had become of the Second brigade—I was facing west on the railroad track seventy-five yards below the crossing on Twenty-eighth street, and the rear of my command was towards the hill.
Q. Facing toward the hill?
A. No; I was facing toward the Allegheny river, forming a straight line. Some little time after I was there, the crowd of rioters formed in front of us, and also on my left flank, and, as I was in a straight line, I withdrew my left flank, so as to connect and form an angle with the balance of the brigade, to keep the rioters from coming in behind us. General Mathews approved of the partial change of front. At that time, there was an enormous crowd of people on the hill back of us, and in front of us, and there was a good deal of noise and confusion. After we had been there some little time, there was some firing of pistol shots; and stones, and brickbats, and clubs, and every thing of that sort were fired at us, and, presently firing began among the troops on my right, and also on the other side. The brigade at one time formed three sides of a hollow square. The firing by the people began, as I saw, from the hill. That was the first I saw. That was, the firing at the troops. After some little firing on their part, the troops began the return fire. My men I didn't permit to fire until on Saturday afternoon, as I had received no orders to fire, and didn't see the immediate occasion for firing. I restrained my men from firing. Then, after this general firing on the right, a great many people on the hill were killed, and some of the rioters in front on twenty-eighth street were also killed. In the mean time, we were all surrounded, where I was, by the rioters.
Q. Did you hear any command given to fire?
A. No; I did not. There was no command to fire. I got no command to fire.
Q. Were there any shots fired by the mob before there was any firing by the militia?
A. Yes; a great many.
Q. Pistol shots?
A. Mostly pistol shots, and, I think, there were two or three gun shots from the side hill fired at us.
Q. What other demonstrations were made by the crowd, before the firing took place on the soldiers?
A. I was some distance from what you call the right of the brigade, on Twenty-eighth street. I had my hands pretty full where I was, and didn't pay much attention to what was going on there. In front of me some rioters showed pistols, and wanted to go through my lines. I refused to let them. They threatened what they would do with me and my men, and also tried to seduce the men from the lines. They were saying we are all workingmen, and you won't fire on workingmen. In this way they endeavored to break up the morals and discipline of the command. I drove them away without using violence, so far as I could, and kept them at a distance of from three or four yards.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the general conduct of the whole command?
A. Do you mean of the brigade?
Q. Your men?
A. It was very good. For raw troops, it was excellent. I have seen troops in the field that didn't behave nearly as well as the men in my command. Most of them are boys, and, like young colts, were a little skittish at the first fire; but finding they didn't get killed, they stood to their work very handsomely.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Had any of your command ever seen actual service during the late war?
A. Yes; I have seen service, and some of my officers and some of the men.
Q. What proportion of them?
A. I should say ten per cent. on an average. Perhaps more.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What was the general conduct of the division as a whole?
A. I cannot speak of that because I didn't see the Second brigade, and didn't know where it was; but the general conduct of the troops was excellent.
Q. From the commencement of the trouble?
A. Yes; in my judgment there was as good discipline, and order, and soldierly behavior on the part of the officers and men, as there would be in an army in the field, and much better than I have seen at times, in case of disaster. I was in the field about two years, and served under Generals McClellan, and Burnside, and Hooper, and Mead. I joined the army at Antietam, and served in the Pennsylvania Reserves at Fredericksburg, with the Third division, under General Reynolds, and was at Chancellorsville and Gettysburg.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. In what capacity did you serve in the army?
A. First as orderly sergeant, and I was then made first lieutenant and captain. I was on General Doubleday's staff part of the time. After this general firing had taken place on Saturday afternoon, we were moved down into the round-house. Some reason was given that we were sent to guard the property. We went into the round-house about dusk, and a little later—between seven and eight o'clock—I was following Colonel Benson, and was given that part of the house to guard opposite Liberty street, about seventy-eight feet long, and was instructed to put out sentries along the line and inside the house to guard the windows, with orders to keep the mob outside back from the windows, and observe their operations, and not to fire without orders. There was great confusion and tumult outside, and a great deal of yelling and screaming, and some firing, and we could scarcely show ourselves at the windows until the mob outside began to throw bricks and direct pistol shots at us, but my men, owing to the orders I had given, didn't fire at all. Occasionally I went to see if the sentinels were on duty and obeying orders. About one o'clock I was lying on a board, when I heard a sentinel call for the sergeant of the guard on this line of Twenty-eighth street, and I immediately went over, taking a posse with me, to learn the cause of the alarm, when I found a large crowd around a field piece, apparently loading it, and preparing to fire. I immediately sent my adjutant to notify General Mathews—to notify him of the fact, and request his attendance. While my adjutant was going for General Mathews, he met General Brinton, and brought him, and General Mathews turned up at the same time. We held a council. The piece was ready to be discharged, and was pointed toward where I was told the Second brigade was. Then it was determined to disperse the mob. I cannot say now whether any intimation was given to them at the time to leave or we should fire—I am not positive—but I think there was.
Q. Warning you mean?
A. Yes. I am not positive; but they had a light, and were about ready to fire, when, by General Brinton's or Mathew's orders, I drew some men up inside of the windows, and we opened fire on them. They immediately dispersed, a number being killed and wounded. After an interval they came up again, and we let them come up; but as soon as they came up to the piece, and attempted to fire, we ordered them back, and when they didn't go back, we opened fire. After that time notice was always given. I suggested the propriety of going out for the piece and bringing it in, and volunteered to go with my men and bring it in and spike it; but our commanders thought it was not worth while, as we had it covered. After the crowd had withdrawn from the piece, they got back of board-piles and small houses, and kept firing at us all night. One man fired an explosive bullet. Every now and then it would come in over the heads of the men and strike something large—such as the stack of a locomotive—and immediately explode. A number of them had muskets and rifles. In the meantime some cars out on the right of us had been fired, and a number of these burning cars were sent down towards the buildings where we were, and lodged against some building not filled with troops, and in a little while the flames rushed through the window of the first floor and struck the ceiling of the second floor, and in the course of half an hour or so everything was on fire, and about six o'clock everything was on fire all around us, and cinders were falling as long as my hand—large cinders from this building—and the roof of this outside building was entirely on fire, and it had communicated to the roof of the round-house, so that we were enveloped with a great deal of smoke, and in danger of being enveloped entirely in flames.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. How far was this cannon stationed from the position you held?
A. About as far as from here across the street—about eighty feet.
Q. In what direction?
A. It was facing about the direction of the grain elevator—in that direction.
Q. Down the track?
A. Not exactly, but sort of angularly, so as to strike the machine shops. It was on Liberty street.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Below you then?
A. Yes; but right opposite to us. After we were almost smothered in smoke, and these heavy cinders were falling, we fell in for the purpose of marching out—where, of course, I had no means of knowing—it was not proper for me to inquire. In the meantime we took the ammunition out of two or three guns there and dampened them with water so that it could not be used against us. We turned out the first street and went towards the Allegheny river and then we struck for Penn street, I think, and as soon as we struck that street and got opposite those men, who were firing all night, they turned about face and fired into our flanks. The firing began as soon as we got on Penn street, and they kept firing into our flanks all the time until we got to the arsenal.
By Mr. Lindsey:
Q. Where did the firing come from?
A. From door-ways, and alley-ways, and second story windows, and doors of houses, and telegraph poles, and from every place where a man could get behind—where he could fire without being in any danger. I saw men standing along the side-walks with large navy revolvers in their coat tails waiting for us to get past a sufficient distance to fire into us.
Q. For what distance was the firing kept up?
A. I can only give an estimate. I should say a mile.
Q. Firing out of houses—was there much of that?
A. A great deal of that? I saw repeated cases where a man's arm would be out of a window firing at us; and generally when we would pass a corner there would be a crowd there apparently peaceable, but when we got past they would immediately fire into us.
Q. How many men were wounded in going out?
A. I don't know. I do not remember the number of men wounded.
Q. Was there any jeering of citizens from the houses as you passed along?
A. A great deal.
Q. And participated in by women?
A. I think I heard several women abusing us and a number of men stating, that we had killed their brothers and sons and so on, and that they would kill us.