REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877. (continued 20)
Reading edition
A. Order your men to fire.
Q. That was the exact language?
A. That is the very words.
Q. You are positive you heard the words, "order your men?"
A. Right in that way: "Order your men to fire."
Q. Were any of the soldiers struck?
A. I did not see anybody struck. There was a man carried away. They say he got sun struck. I seen him carried away. I didn't see anybody hit.
Q. Did you hear any pistol shots, or any shots fired from the crowd, or in the crowd, before the firing of the soldiery?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear any?
A. One appeared to be like a cap—it was right in that corner. [Indicating.]
Q. In the crowd?
A. That was the first shot I heard fired. That soldier fired it. He didn't fire straight out. His gun went off up in that way.
Q. You heard a noise like a cap before the firing of the troops?
A. I couldn't tell exactly where that come from. It appeared to be round the watch-box.
Q. About the switch-box?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That is, the watch-box on the corner of the street, and the railroad toward the hill?
A. That was on the side of the hill. It was right here. [Indicating.]
Q. It appeared to come from that direction?
A. From that direction.
Q. Didn't it sound like a pistol shot?
A. No; like a cap.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Then you heard no firing from the crowd until after the military fired?
A. There was no firing done until the military.
Q. Was there any firing done from the crowd at all that you heard?
A. Yes; I seen the firing. Parties were firing from the side of the hill after that fire. A man on a car fired a revolver. He was laying right down at the end of the car. This man pulled out his revolver and fired at the crowd.
Q. There was no firing from the crowd or mob until after General Pearson had given the command to fire, and they had obeyed that command?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. There was a man fired from a car?
A. That was after the firing was done.
Q. Do you know that man?
A. I would know him if I would see him. Don't know him by name. I have met him a dozen times on the street since. I didn't want to go and ask his name, for fear they would ask me what my name was.
Q. Do you know where he lives?
A. No, sir. I know he lives in the city somewhere.
Q. Do you know General Pearson well?
A. I know him just by seeing him, and that is about all. Never spoke to the man at all. I don't know whether he spoke to me that time in the car or not. I won't say positively.
Q. Why were you afraid to ask this man his name?
A. I will tell you just the reason why. I didn't want to be called up as a witness. I have had enough trouble running round with this thing. I don't want to go against a man.
Q. You prefer that he should go scot-free?
A. I don't think he done anything.
R. S. Jones, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What is your full name?
A. R. S. Jones.
Q. Where is your residence?
A. No. 337 Chestnut alley, south side.
Q. What is your occupation, Mr. Jones?
A. I am a boiler—puddler.
Q. Were you present at the fire that occurred by the troops on the Saturday, the 21st of July?
A. I was.
Q. Will you be kind enough to tell what you saw?
A. I went out there about quarter to four o'clock—near that time—got there just about half an hour before the troops came up—the Philadelphia troops. I was there when the command was given to fire. They marched up the track. I saw General Pearson there, and Sheriff Fife and his deputies, some of them I don't know.
Q. State the movements of the troops, and what you saw?
A. They marched up the track to the corner of Twenty-eighth street. They came to a front to the round-house—fronted to the round-house. The rear rank came to about face and charged bayonets. They marched across the track—the opposite side—and that left a space there of about thirty feet; and there was a company behind that, formed in two sections, and one section marched up the track—they charged bayonets—and the Gatling guns came right along after them. They came to the head of the column and stopped, and they about faced and formed a square. I heard the command given to fire. I was standing right alongside of one of the soldiers, talking to him at the time, from Philadelphia. I never thought they were going to fire, or I would not have been there.
Q. You heard the command given to fire?
A. Yes, sir; when they came by the officer that was at the head of the column, turned around and stepped right into the square, and the sheriff and his deputies stepped in.
Q. Did they fire in a volley?
A. They fired just about the same as a new recruited regiment—you can pick them out in the field—you give them orders to fire, and they wouldn't fire as one. I guess it was just about as near as they could fire under the circumstances. I suppose they were a little scared.
Q. Did the crowd resist these men?
A. I didn't see any disturbance whatever when I was there. I didn't stay there after the firing.
Q. Did you see anything thrown, or any disturbance in the crowd?
A. No, sir.
Q. The crowd just stood there?
A. They were all standing there before the firing. I guess there was not many there after the firing. I didn't stay there to see.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you see any stone thrown from the crowd at the soldiers before the firing?
A. I didn't, sir.
Q. Did you hear any firing from any one in the crowd?
A. I didn't.
Q. How long after you heard the command given to fire did the firing take place?
A. Instantly.
Q. Did you hear that command given by more than one officer?
A. I did not.
Q. Was it a simultaneous discharge of a good many pieces?
A. As I said before, it was just something like a new regiment.
Q. Have you had any experience in active service in the army?
A. I was in the army three years, sir.
Q. What is the difference between the firing in a new regiment and an old one?
A. They don't fire together—they will in time. Time makes everything perfect.
Q. The firing is somewhat like the firing in a battle, after the first volley is fired?
A. Yes; I suppose there was about a dozen guns went off, and then the rest followed, the same as a new regiment.
Q. What the boys used to call a rattling fire in the army?
A. Yes, sir.
By Mr. Means:
Q. How near were you to where General Pearson stood when this command was given?
A. I guess they were about the center of the square, and I was standing three men from the end, at the head of the column—that is, the right of the square towards the round-house.
Q. What distance would you suppose?
A. About fifteen feet, I guess.
Q. From where General Pearson was standing to where you were?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You cannot tell whether General Pearson gave that command?
A. I don't know.
Q. Was the command given as though it was peremptory?
A. It was given in a clear, distinct voice.
Q. Give us the exact language of the command?
A. The first thing I heard was, "fire!" just about that loud.
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. Did it come from the officers or the crowd?
A. It came from the inside of the square.
Q. You don't know who gave it?
A. I don't know. I was looking right in at the soldiers, too, but I could not swear who gave the order.
Q. Wouldn't you have been apt to notice? How were they dressed?
A. Pearson had a blouse.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. A military blouse?
A. A military blouse. The rest of the officers had their swords on, the general, I don't think he had a sword on.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did he have on a hat?
A. He had a cap on.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Might not that command have come from one of the men in the ranks?
A. I don't think so—I never heard an order given from a soldier in the ranks?
Q. Might not that command have come from one in the line, and not from the officer in command?
A. From where I was standing, I thought it came from right in the center. They were not standing in the center, they were standing about five feet from the head of this square. It came from that direction.
Q. You don't know whether it came from an officer or who it came from?
A. I couldn't state—I judge it did.
Q. You supposed it would, but you really don't know that it did?
A. No; I didn't see his mouth open at the time.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were you present at the disturbance that night?
A. No, sir; I went home, and stayed there. I went out Sunday, and I guess half the cars were burned when I went out.
Q. You went over Saturday night, and stayed home the balance of the night?
A. Balance of the night; yes, sir.
Q. What was the feelings in the crowd?
A. I don't know. I didn't ask, and I felt just as if I had no business there, and the quicker I got out the better.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say General Pearson wore a blouse and a cap?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did he have any braid or anything of that kind about the uniform?
A. No; I don't think there was. I don't think there was anything to distinguish that he was a general or an officer of any kind.
Q. That is, to distinguish his rank?
A. No, sir; at least I didn't see it.
Q. Did he have brass buttons on his blouse?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you take particular notice of it?
A. I was talking to him a few minutes before. The way I came to speak to him, we had gone up to the road above the track, and I had got through the guard. There was a guard across the track, and I had come through, and the party that had come with me—there was three of us, the guard wouldn't let them through, and the general was standing there and I asked him to let them through, and he said certainly, and they let the party through—that is the way I came to speak to him.
Q. Was that soon after or before the firing?
A. That was just before.
Q. Did you see General Pearson after the firing?
A. I didn't stay there after the firing. I got out of that as quick as I could.
Q. How long before the fire began did you see General Pearson?
A. I saw him before, and I saw him just when the order was given.
Q. Have you any knowledge of the causes leading to this strike first?
A. I have not, indeed. I don't know anything about it. I knew there was a strike.
Q. Did you see them leaving the round-house?
A. No, sir; I was not there.
William J. Shaner, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I board at 1145 Penn street.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Roll turner. Work for my brother-in-law.
Q. Were you present on the day of the firing on the troops, on Saturday, the 21st of July?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Describe where you were and what occurred, as near as you can recollect?
A. When the troops were coming up the track, I was up on the side of the hill, with a comrade of mine, Charles Bier. He and I went down a few steps, and waited until after they had got up and halted and formed two ranks. Before they formed a hollow square, I says to him, I am going down to see them, and to hear, if I can hear them read anything or say anything. He said, No, no, he says, you might get hurt. Says I, No, there is danger; so I left him standing, and went down and made my way in. There was a good many standing around at that time, and the watch-box which stood there—I put my foot up on the window, and held on to a bracket, a little above the rest of the crowd, and I stood there for a few moments, and I heard the command given to fire, and when it was given I tried to get down, but I couldn't on account of the crowd there, and when they had cleared away, I got down and ran up to the ravine there, and laid down the best I could. That was my position when the firing took place. When the firing ceased, I went and looked to see if I could see my comrade, and I couldn't find him. I went down the street, and found that he was shot. I didn't find him until I found him in the hospital. I got everything he had on his person, and carried them home to his folks.
Q. You heard the command given to fire?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What occurred—did the crowd stand still, or were they making a noise—and did they interfere with the soldiers?
A. There was no interference with the soldiers at all.
Q. Did you see anything thrown?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. What was thrown?
A. I saw one stone, to my knowledge, and that was all thrown—about as large as your hand—for it come from the corner of where the gate goes up to the hospital—the right hand corner as you face Twenty-eight street.
Q. Did you hear any firing by the crowd before the soldiers were ordered to fire?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear any firing from the watch-box there?
A. Yes, sir; the soldiers—not from the crowd.
Q. Not from the crowd?
A. Not at all.
Q. There was no firing at all from that part of the crowd?
A. No, sir.
Q. Could you have heard any firing?
A. Yes, I could have.
Q. It was quiet there?
A. So far as firing was concerned it was.
Q. I mean before this firing took place?
A. There was noise, talking, and hooting, and just when the military fired for a moment it ceased like.
Q. You could hear who gave the command?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Who was it—an officer?
A. Yes, it was an officer.
Q. Do you know him?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Who was it?
A. General Pearson, or Albert Pearson.
Q. Do you know General Pearson?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. How long have you known him?
A. That is, I know him by sight, but never spoke to the man in my life.
Q. How was he dressed that day?
A. He was dressed in a white vest and blouse, with brass buttons on it, and the blouse was buttoned up middling close to the neck, and he had something similar to that. [Indicating.]
Q. A soft hat?
A. Yes; as near as I could see.
Q. Did you know General Pearson before that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In all this confusion, you could see General Pearson give the command to fire?
A. Right at the moment the command to fire was given, it was kind of stopped—the confusion was—and I heard distinctly the command "fire" given by General Pearson.
Q. Where was he standing?
A. He was standing a little over half way through the square, towards the rear rank.
Q. Did the men fire as soon as he gave the command?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. They fired at his command?
A. They fired at his command.
Q. You are sure of that?
A. I am certain of it.
Q. Did you see any of the soldiers struck by any stones? You say you only saw one stone thrown?
A. I only saw one stone thrown, to my knowledge, that I could distinguish perfectly, and I didn't see any soldier struck at all.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. After General Pearson gave the command to fire, was it repeated by any other officers?
A. Not to my knowledge. I didn't pay any attention to it. I tried to get out of the … and I couldn't. I was looking out for my head, then.
Q. How did you know the order was given by Pearson?
A. I saw it. I saw General Pearson, and saw his lips move.
Q. In what direction was he facing, then?
A. He was kind of facing toward the rear rank.
Q. Towards the hill-side?
A. No, sir.
Q. The other way down, towards Liberty street?
A. Kind of towards the sand-house.
Q. That is, on the left hand side, as you could see?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. He was facing in that direction?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the fire commence from that direction?
A. No, sir; it commenced from the corner, right at the watch-box.
Q. Did he turn his back to give the command?
A. He kind of turned round to the officers that were there, and who they were I don't know.
Q. He had his back towards the watch-box when the command was given to fire?
A. Not altogether, he didn't. [Witness illustrates the situation of affairs on paper.] That is Twenty-eighth street; here is the watch-box; there is the rear rank; and here is the front rank; and here is General Pearson, right in here; and here is where the firing commenced; and General Pearson was standing, with his face towards Twenty-eighth street, before he gave the command to fire; and when he turned, he turned right around this way, and his face was directed about towards me; I could look right into his face there. There was a man standing between me and General Pearson, up like from him, and that was an officer, and who that officer was I don't know.
Q. You say you heard no command from any of the other officers?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What did he do after the firing? Did you notice what became of him?
A. I took notice he disappeared very quickly. I don't know whether he was inspecting car wheels or not.
Q. All that I want to know is what occurred after the command to fire was given?
A. The firing commenced immediately.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You didn't tell them that General Pearson was inspecting car wheels, did you?
A. It was hard to say what he was doing, I know he got away.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say General Pearson had a blouse on?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. It was buttoned up close?
A. Buttoned up right across there. [Indicating.]
Q. That is, how far from his chin?
A. About there. [Indicating.]
Q. About six inches.
A. I suppose about that—six or seven inches, as near as I could see.
Q. How many rows of buttons had he on his coat?
A. That I don't know.
Q. What kind of a hat did he wear?
A. A soft hat, something similar to that.
Q. Had he any braid, or any thing else; a wreath, or anything on his hat?
A. Not as I took notice of.
Q. Had he any trimmings on his coat to distinguish him from the other officers?
A. No, sir; not that I saw.
Q. Had he any braid on his breast?
A. No, sir; it was brass buttoned.
Q. Buttoned clear up?
A. It was buttoned at the top. Buttoned, but I do not know whether it was buttoned below; it was a kind of a sack——
Q. You say he wore a white vest?
A. No, sir.
Q. How could you know that he wore a white vest?
A. I could see his white vest here. [Indicating.] His vest came up middling close.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Did you hear General Pearson, or anybody else, notify the mob to disperse?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you hear anybody give orders to load?
A. No, sir.
Q. You heard nothing but the word, fire?
A. There was a command before that, to charge bayonets, but I do not know who it was that gave that. I did not see him.
Q. You were standing upon the window?
A. With my foot on the window, and holding on to the bracket above.
Q. Were there any officers about, except General Pearson?
A. Yes; there were other officers there, but I do not know who they were.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did General Pearson have on a belt and sword?
A. No, sir; not as I saw.
Q. He had nothing then by which you could distinguish him as an officer—he had no shoulder straps?
A. No, sir.
Q. No trimmings on his coat?
A. No, sir; not as I saw.
Q. Nor any sword. He was just simply dressed as a civilian, with the exception of his blouse and brass buttons?
A. Yes, sir; a blouse. I did not take notice to his dress, only in that way.
Q. Had he shoulder straps on?
A. No, sir; not as I saw.
Q. You are sure of that?
A. So far as I know. I did not see it.
Q. You would have noticed it if he had?
A. I should think so.
Q. Did you see the sheriff?
A. I did not know Sheriff Fife, but a man was pointed out to me as Sheriff Fife, and I would know him again if I was to see him. The man that was pointed out to me had a straw hat on.
Q. You are sure General Pearson was not pointed out to you?
A. No, sir; I am sure of that. No man need point out General Pearson to me.
Q. You are sure somebody did not say in that crowd, "There is General Pearson along with the sheriff's posse."
A. Not to my recollection. There was no one told me that. When they came up, General Pearson, Sheriff Fife, and some other man—and who this man was I did not know—was kind of together. They were at the head of the column, and came up the railroad just as they halted, and before they formed an open square.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You said you did not know Sheriff Fife. How do you know it was Sheriff Fife?
A. I said a man that was pointed out to me as Sheriff Fife. I did not know the man personally, only he was pointed out to me that day by a party that that was Sheriff Fife. I never saw the man before, to my recollection, or afterwards.
Q. Did you see any party of citizens in front of the military, as they came up?
A. As they came up the track?
Q. Yes?
A. No, sir; only those at Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Only the crowd that was at Twenty-eighth street?
A. That is all.
Q. You did not see any civilians in front of the military as they marched up?
A. Not to my recollection.
Q. You say you went down to hear the sheriff's proclamation?
A. I went down to hear if he would read any riot act, or anything like that.
Q. You did not see the sheriff at all?
A. Only when he was pointed out to me as the sheriff, as I stated before.
Q. Did not see the party with the man who was pointed out as the sheriff?
A. I said I saw General Pearson and some other gentleman with the sheriff.
Q. There were only three of them?
A. Those were together. There were a great many others alongside of them.
Q. When the military marched up the track, what led you to go down to hear the proclamation?
A. Nothing; only curiosity.
Q. Did you understand that the sheriff was coming there with a posse? That he was going to read the riot act, or something of that kind?
A. No, sir; I did not know that the sheriff was coming at all. I did not know who was coming until after they got up there.
Q. What did you go down—you said you went down to hear what the sheriff would say?
A. I went down there to hear whether there would be anything read, or what would be said, and that was after the sheriff was pointed out to me.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You went down there after the sheriff was pointed out to you?
A. I went down to the watch-box after the sheriff was pointed out to me.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. There were only three of them together, Sheriff Fife, General Pearson, and another man?
A. That other man, I do not know who it was.
Q. I mean in front of the soldiers.
A. There were other ones around them. There were other officers near them. Those three were pretty close together.
Q. When did you go there in the crowd?
A. I went up on the side of the hill among the boys before the Philadelphia troops came in at all; before I knew they were coming in—before the train came in, I went up among the boys. I know a great many of them among the military. Spoke to them and shook hands with them.
Q. Talked with them?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you witness any of the occurrences during the night after the firing?
A. The only thing I saw after the firing was a car that was fired, and I could see that plainly from the steps I was sitting on, with two other boarders that were sitting around the steps. The steps are very large, and one of the boarders drew attention to it. He says, "What is that lighting up there." I asked him, what. He says, "Don't you see it?" I said, "It is nothing more than a railroad man's lamp."
Q. You were not down in the crowd?
A. I was four or five squares away.
Q. I understood you to say you went to look for your friend?
A. That was after the firing commenced. It was before dark I had found him, but I had left him in the hospital just before dusk, and went to his home. I came back to the boarding-house and got my supper, and stayed there.
Q. Have you any knowledge of the causes?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What style of hat did General Pearson wear? You said he had a slouch hat. Of what color was it?
A. It appeared to me as soft. It was black.
Q. Broad brimmed hat?
A. I do not know. The rim was not broader than that [indicating]—it might have been.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. It was a straw hat?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you see any policemen there at the time of the fire?
A. When the Philadelphia soldiers fired?
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Yes.
A. Not to my knowledge, I did not.
Q. What do you mean by your knowledge. Do you mean you did not see it at all—you did not see any police officers?
A. That I did not see them to the best of my knowledge. They might have been there. I did not see them.
Q. Did you see the soldiers come out of the round-house, Sunday?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Did you see them after they came out?
A. Yes; I did.
Q. As they marched along?
A. Yes; in order.
Q. Did you see any firing on them.
A. Yes; I did.
Q. Do you know who did that firing?
A. No, sir; I do not. The only one I saw firing was one man, and he was running the whole crowd of them out, as near as I could tell.
Q. One man was following them up?
A. That was the only man I saw have a shooting iron with him, and he had his coat off; but who he was I do not know, and I would not know him if I was to see him, for I was standing in the doorway of the boarding house when he went past, and he loaded his gun right ferninst the door. He had one of the guns the same as the military uses.
Q. Had a breech-loading musket?
A. Yes.
Q. And cartridges for it?
A. He had cartridges for it and a belt on—a cartridge-box.
Q. Did you see any firing from houses along the street?
A. No, sir; I did not go out for to see until after they had passed by. Then I went out along the street. After that, saw several of them that was shot—some killed dead—and helped pick them up and carry them in. One of the Philadelphia soldiers I helped up at Thirty-third street. A ball must have went in there [indicating] and come out through his wrist. At least the hole was through his wrist—through here and back here. [Indicating.]
Q. One man did all the shooting, you say?
A. That is the only man I saw—that is, right there where I live.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Where do you live?
A. 1145 Penn street—board there.
Q. Will you please describe that man that did that firing?
A. I cannot do it, sir. It is impossible. Only he was a tall man; but how he was dressed I could not tell, with the exception that he had a white shirt on, and whether it was an undershirt or a fine shirt I do not know, because I did not pay that much attention to it. He had his coat off.
Q. How close were you to him?
A. He passed along the pavement and I was standing out on the steps—the steps is five high, I think. I was standing in the doorway, and he was below me, and passed along the pavement.
Q. Was he an old or a young man?
A. Middle aged man, as far as I could judge.
Q. Did he wear whiskers?
A. That I could not say.
Q. Did he follow the troops up?
A. He followed them as far as the corner above. Then I did not take notice where he went to, because I come to the conclusion I was not going to interest myself in it.
Q. How many shots did you see him fire?
A. I only saw him fire one shot, and that he fired from the corner of Thirty-first street, and by the time he fired the shot I saw the troops he fired into stop and point down, and there was two balls came right past the door right over my head. I thought it was time to pass into the house.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did this man say anything?
A. He said something about spilling the blood of some of his friends, and he was going to have revenge, when he passed the door. That is all I know.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What kind of a breech-loading gun did he have?
A. The same as the military have.
Q. It was a military gun, you mean?
A. It was a military gun; yes, sir.
Q. Did you ever attend any meeting, during that excitement, of citizens or people, for the purpose of organizing to resist the soldiers?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you know of any meeting being held out Penn street or Butler street?
A. No, sir.
Q. Would you know this man that fired at the soldiers if you were to see him?
A. No, sir; I am certain of that.
Q. You say he had a cartridge-box—this man that fired?
A. Yes; and a white belt.
Q. Had it buckled around his body?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What kind of a looking cartridge-box was it?
A. The same as the military used—a black one.
Q. A square box?
A. Yes; kind of square.
P. M. Stack, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I reside in Spring alley, near Twenty-eighth street.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Constable, Twelfth ward.
Q. Were you present at Twenty-eighth street on Saturday, 21st July?
A. At the time of the shooting?
Q. Yes?
A. I was.
Q. Will you be kind enough to state what you observed?
A. I was in town that afternoon. I think it was about half past two o'clock, and I went up, and I saw a large crowd up there—went as far as Twenty-eighth street crossing—saw a lot of men right across the railroad, and went up there, and seen some men that I know—seen some Philadelphia soldiers come up. Seen General Pearson there. I stayed up two or three minutes, and they opened ranks, and Pearson came right up the middle, and stayed there for a few minutes, and Sheriff Fife was on the right hand side next to the hill. The crowd was hollering "Hold the fort," or something to that effect. I think it was "Hold the fort" they were hollering, and General Pearson was there and he said, "Charge bayonets," and they commenced to charge. As soon as they commenced to charge the crowd behind shoved up. I was one of the front and could not get back. The first thing I knew they commenced to fire. I thought they were firing blank cartridges, until I saw a man by the name of John Long fall, and saw they was not firing blank cartridges, and I turned around and ran away as fast as I could. That is all I knew about it.
Q. Where was Pearson?
A. Pearson was about in the middle. They came up about sixteen abreast, or something like that. I could not exactly tell. He was in the middle, anyhow. They opened order and came right up.
Q. About sixteen of them?
A. About sixteen abreast, right across the track.
Q. The sheriff, you mean?
A. What they call the Philadelphia soldiers. I do not know whether they were Philadelphia soldiers or not.
Q. Was not anybody in front of the soldiers when they marched up the railroad track?
A. There was a crowd in front of them. Sheriff Fife—there is a board walk where you get off the train, a platform where you get on the train—he was marching right up at the right hand side as you come up the railroad track, as far as Twenty-eighth street.
Q. Anybody with him?
A. That I could not say; he was right with the soldiers, and you could not see right over their heads.
Q. Was not he in front of the soldiers?
A. He was right on abreast with them.
Q. Could not you see Fife and who was with him?
A. I could not see who was behind me. I could see the front. I could not discern the men who was behind the front men.
Q. You heard Pearson give the command to fire?
A. Charge bayonets first. I was one of the fellows that was sticking around.
Q. What were you doing, trying to keep it off?
A. I went up there—I was a sworn officer of the railroad—and I thought I would try to do what I could.
Q. Had you tried to quell it?
A. Yes, I had, so far as I knew how. I assisted Mayor McCarthy's police when I went up there.
Q. Were the police there?
A. They were; eight or ten police there during the day and at night.
Q. What did they do?
A. The boys were around there playing with the cars—wherever there is excitement the boys are always there—they were trying to put the boys away, and the men were not doing any harm, it was the boys.
Q. You could not put the boys away then?
A. No; they were little boys.
Q. When the soldiers marched up, what did the crowd do? Did they fall back?
A. At the time they charged bayonets, the rear crowd shoved the front up—they were shoving them up. That is all I seen about it.
Q. Did you see any stones thrown?
A. I did; there was some little boys threw a couple of stones, and I says, "Quit that, boy, there will be trouble here."
Q. A couple of stones?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear any firing? Did you hear anybody shoot before the soldiers shot?
A. No, sir.
Q. You didn't see but a couple of stones thrown at all?
A. It was thrown from a couple of boys from the sand-house. They were in the sand-house, and there was some stones in the sand, and they threw them over our heads. I seen the boys that threw them—little boys about eight or ten years of age. There is a sand-house where they dry sand for the engines, and they were in the sand-house at the time.
Q. You did not see any stones come from the side of the hill?
A. No, sir; I was on this side of the railroad, nearer to Penn street than I was to the hillside.
Q. They would not have reached you?
A. No; I do not think they could, unless they could throw them that far.
Q. Where was Pearson standing when he gave this command?
A. He was standing in the middle of the ranks—right up the middle.
Q. Did he give the command himself to fire, or did he give it to somebody else?
A. He did; he said "fire."
Q. That is all he said?
A. That is all, sir; he gave command to charge bayonets first.
Q. Charge bayonets and then fire?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the men that he ordered to charge bayonets, fire?
A. I could not see where the shots came from, they came from the gun some place, that I know. We were standing right in front. When these men fired, Johnny Long fell down. I helped to carry him in when the doctor was examining him there. I took him into the round-house.
Q. Do you know Pearson?
A. I do, sir.
Q. Did you know him by sight?
A. I had known Pearson for ten years.
Q. How was he dressed?
A. That is more than I can tell you.
Q. You did not notice?
A. I was just looking at his face, same as I am looking at you. I did not pay particular attention to his dress.
Q. You say you heard him give this command?
A. I did, sir.
Q. You are right certain of this?
A. I am positive.
Q. You are sure it was not "not to fire," and you only heard "fire."
A. He said fire, as loud as I am talking now. I was not sixteen feet away from him.
Q. Did you see the troops when they came out of the round-house?
A. When they came out, on Sunday morning, I saw them go up Penn avenue. I did not see them leave the round-house.
Q. How were they marching, in order?
A. Yes; in order.
Q. Was anybody firing on them?
A. I did see one man, just as I was coming down the hill. I went up there to see the burning from the top of the hill, near what they call the pest-house, and saw the soldiers between the round-house and the square shop.
Q. That was not where they marched out Penn street before the fire?
A. The fire was pretty close to the round-house when the cars were fired.
Q. That was after the troops had fired?
A. This was at five o'clock Sunday morning.
Q. When they came out?
A. The soldiers that were in there, they were firing away all night, and when I came out they were getting down off the hill on Twenty-eighth street, and the troops were getting out then, and I was coming down. The tail end of them were passing, and a man came down Twenty-eighth street in his shirt sleeves—a pretty good sized man, not too big—and he had a musket, and he was rolling up his shirt sleeves, and when he came to the drug store, corner of Twenty-eighth and Penn, I seen him raising his musket. I thought they would return back the fire up that street and I got down the alley and run into the house.
Q. Did you make any attempt to arrest this man?
A. No.
Q. Did you not think it was your duty, as constable, to stop that man from shooting?
A. If the whole police force could not stop him, I could not stop him.
Q. You did not try?
A. I was afraid of the gun.
Q. Did you see anybody else shoot?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you know this man?
A. No, sir; never saw him, to my knowledge. Could not describe him to you.
Q. What did he say when he was shooting?
A. I was not that close to him. I did not get that close.
Q. Were you over there on Thursday, when the strike first took place?
A. I was up there; yes, sir.
Q. Did you hear any of the men say why they struck?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you know any of the causes that led them to strike?
A. It was putting on double-headers. I believe that was the cause I heard for it.
Q. Was there any disturbance there Thursday?
A. No, sir; there was very few there on Thursday.
Q. Were there on Friday?
A. Friday they commenced to gather a little; on Saturday, there was upwards of a thousand.
Q. Were you called upon at any time to exert your authority to keep the peace?
A. No, sir; the city did not pay me for that as a constable.
Q. Is not that part of your duties as a constable?
A. It is a part of my duty as constable to try to suppress or arrest anybody I would see acting disorderly on the street, but a constable among two or three hundred men is of very little use. We ain't paid by the city government as constable, to do anything——
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Could you not have arrested this man who was firing on the troops?
A. I do not know.
Q. Were you not armed?
A. I was not.
Q. Had no pistol?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you try to get somebody else to assist you in arresting this man?
A. It was too early in the morning. There was nobody out of bed, hardly.
Q. You did not follow after the troops. You say you went home?
A. I went home. Yes, sir.
Q. Stayed there?
A. Stayed there.
Q. Did you see any police about the fire during Sunday—see them making any effort to put out the fire or prevent it?
A. I did not. I went to my mother-in-law's on Sunday.
Q. You were not about then on Sunday?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do not know anything about what occurred then, of your own observation?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see Mayor McCarthy about on Sunday?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Saturday night?
A. No, sir; he might have been there. I did not see him.
C. G. Barnett, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What is your full name?
A. C. G. Barnett. They call me Neall for short.
Q. Where do you reside?
A. I live 296 Centre avenue.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I am solicitor for the Consolidated Gas Company.
Q. Were you present on Saturday, the 21st of July?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Be kind enough to describe what came under your observation?
A. I will tell you how I got there. I live on Centre avenue, and I came over the hill to our works. I went over there about dinner time, and stayed at the works until about three o'clock. I had nothing more to do that day, and I thought I would come up and see what the railroad men were doing. I stopped there, I suppose, until about half past three, and the train came in with the Philadelphia soldiers on, so I got talking, like the rest of the men around there, and I stayed there, and they finally commenced to holler, and they said, "There comes the Philadelphia soldiers." I knew a young fellow in the Philadelphia troops, by the name of Deal, and I thought I would get to see him. I looked along the line, and finally found him; he was at the lower part. As they came up they divided off.
Q. What is his name?
A. Willie Deal; he lives in Philadelphia. When the soldiers came up, the first I saw was Sheriff Fife, General Pearson, Captain Moore, and then the soldiers came up. I was talking with Deal awhile, and he says, "You had better get out of here," and I finally walked up towards the switch-house, at the corner of Twenty-eighth and the railroad track, and I got up, standing beside the switch-house, and I took notice of a few boys commencing to lift up some small stones that did not amount to much; of course it would hurt a person to be hit with them. I told the boys, "You had better quit that, you will get into trouble." They said they were having some fun. I said it was wrong kind of fun to have. Then there was a squad of about twenty-five soldiers came up in the center, and they commenced to shove the crowd back, and the first thing I saw I heard the command to fire given. I thought it was about time to get down, and I got around to the side. I could still see the soldiers, and the first thing I heard was General Pearson giving the command to fire.
Q. You heard General Pearson?
A. I heard him just as distinctly as you are speaking to me.
Q. Do you know General Pearson?
A. I do, sir; that is, I am acquainted with him to see him. I have lived in this town all my life, and I know him as well as my own brother to see him.
Q. How was he dressed that day?
A. He had a blouse on. I should judge it buttoned up to about there. [Indicating.] A plain blouse; I do not think there was any trimmings on it, except the buttons. It was buttoned up.
Q. Did he have a sword?
A. That I would not positively say. I did not pay that much attention to him.
Q. Did any of the officers have swords, or did you notice the other officers?
A. I noticed an officer that was pointed out to me as General Brinton.
Q. Did he have a sword?
A. He had a sword.
Q. The captains of the companies had swords?
A. The officers had, yes, sir.
Q. All had swords?
A. Yes; but I would not say positively that General Pearson had a sword on, because I did not take that particular notice of him. I did not think it was necessary. I did not know they would ever have any trouble.
Q. You are sure you heard Pearson give the command?
A. I did, sir.
Q. Where was he standing?
A. He was standing—there was a car between the sand-house and the round-house, and General Pearson was standing at the far end of the car, towards the Union depot, in the neighborhood of the sand-house.
Q. That is on the round-house side?
A. Yes; that is on the round-house side—that old sand-house.
Q. Where did the first fire come from?
A. The first fire was on the side that the round-house was on, about midway of the soldiers. Some of them fired up in the air, and after the first volley—there is a road runs up the hill, the way I came down—after the first volley I thought it was getting warm, and I would get out of that and get home. I run about half way, and there was a little boy that was shot right there, and I grabbed the boy as I was running. I just grabbed him and took him with me, and there was a little hollow there where the water runs, and I thought that was a safe place for myself and the boy both. After the firing there was a boy standing there, and I said, "You had better go and get Doctor McCandless." After the firing stopped, I carried the boy to a little shanty house, and laid him down there. This other boy went for the doctor.
Q. When Pearson gave the command, what became of him?
A. I did not notice.
Q. You are right sure he gave the command "fire?" He did not say not to fire?
A. No; he gave the order to fire. I heard it distinctly.
Q. You are sure it was Pearson—you could distinguish Pearson among the crowd of officers?
A. As a military man, I have heard him give orders. Have heard him time and time and time again, and I know a man's voice when I hear it very often.
Q. What did he have on—a hat?
A. I think he had a soft hat—black soft hat, with a rim about that wide [indicating]—it may have been wider, but I did not pay particular attention to it—did not pay enough attention to him to know that he had a sword, because I did not think it was necessary.
Q. Did you see the troops come out of the round-house the next day?
A. After the firing was over, about five o'clock, I went home, and a gentleman by the name of Root, that boards in the house with me—after supper I says, "Suppose we go over and see what is going on over the hill." We went over and stayed there awhile—did not go down. The next Sunday morning, about one o'clock, I heard an alarm, and I got out of my room and went through the hall and rapped at the door. Says I, "There is an alarm of fire. I bet that's the railroad property." Says he, "Oh, no." I went back to bed, and stayed there until the next morning about seven o'clock. I got up and went over the hill, and about eight o'clock—I think it was eight o'clock, I would not say for certain—the Philadelphia soldiers went out of the round-house. I was away up on the hill.
Q. Did you see them come out?
A. I saw a crowd. I could not distinguish. I was five or six hundred yards away from them.
Q. You were up on the hill?
A. You can't see very well, because of the smoke and one thing or other—I would not say for certain it was them.
Q. You do not know anything that occurred. Did you see any police in this crowd when you went there Saturday—when you went to see this friend of yours?
A. I think I saw one or two police—I think I saw two police.
Q. Were they making an effort to keep the crowd back, and keep them orderly?
A. One of these police talked to a man on the corner of Liberty and Twenty-eighth street, right at the end of the Pennsylvania shops. I judged, from the way he was talking to him, that he wanted him to go home. I was not near enough to him to tell.
Q. There was no force there sufficient to make any impression on the crowd?
A. There was nothing necessary for force. The men were quiet. Of course they were standing on the railroad track, but there was no noise. They were quiet, peaceable men. There was nothing until the Philadelphia soldiers came. That was the commencement of it.
Q. When the sheriff came up, what did the crowd—did they say anything or do anything?
A. Not until the squad of about twenty-five soldiers came up in the center. Then they commenced to shove, and they had not room to get out. I suppose if they had given them five minutes, they could have got away.
Q. Did the sheriff make any call upon the crowd to disperse?
A. Not that I saw.
Q. You were talking with this friend of yours?
A. He told me to get out, and I walked toward the switch-house. Says he, "Neall, go away; if there is anything happens here you will get hurt," and I took his advice.
Q. What led him to say that?
A. I do not know. That is exactly what he told me.
Q. Were there not stones being thrown, that led this man to think there would be trouble?
A. No; he was at the lower end, towards the Union depot.
Q. Could he not see?
A. Not where he was standing.
Q. Was there not a crowd making an attack upon the soldiers, and that there was likely to be trouble?
A. Not at that time. They were not throwing any stones until I got to the switch-house, and then I saw the boys throwing stones.
Q. Was the crowd resisting the soldiers?
A. Not at that time. This middle division had not gone up. Just as they started, he told me to get out of there.
Q. When they got up, didn't the crowd resist them?
A. I think if they had given them five minutes there would have been no trouble. There was a great many men tried to get away, and the crowd held them back.
Q. Was it men there like yourself, or was it men there to resist the soldiers?
A. There was a great many men I knew had nothing to do with the Pennsylvania. They were there just standing looking on.
Q. If you went through a crowd like that, you could judge whether there were men there to resist the soldiers, or whether they were there out of curiosity?
A. I should judge that the most of them were there out of curiosity, and I did not know the feeling of the men. I never go up that direction, unless I am on business.
Q. Did you see any efforts made by the police during Sunday to stop the burning?
A. I was not near the railroad track on Sunday. I stood away up on the hill—not until Sunday evening, until half past seven, and then came down by the car way, and came down to the Union depot. There I saw a lot of police stopping the men from carrying away ale. I should judge—from the looks of the barrels—what they call Milwaukee ale or beer.
Q. Milwaukee ale or beer?
A. Beer, I suppose. It is not our style of keg that is made in Pittsburgh here. I do not drink enough for to know that. I know it was beer or ale.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Had you any trouble getting through the crowd when you wanted to get away on Saturday?
A. No, sir. I ran alongside of the hill, while there was very few people.
Q. You were right down the railroad among the soldiers?
A. I did see a lot of guns there, said to be Knapp's battery, lying at the watch-house—that was all the trouble. Just as I got away from the mob, I had no trouble at all—I could run away along the hill.
Q. Would it have been any trouble for the crowd to get away when the soldiers came up to ask them to fall back?
A. I think some of them could get away—not all the crowd, because there was cars on the other side of Twenty-eighth street, lying in there, and they got in round the cars, and could not get out.
Q. You said three fourths of the men there were spectators?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What did the other fourth come there for?
A. I have not the least idea, I never go there unless going to the works.
Q. I suppose three fourths went there from mere curiosity, and that the other fourth went for some purpose?
A. Most likely they did, but I could not see that.
By Mr. Dewees:
Q. Did you hear General Pearson say anything else but "fire!"?
A. No, sir; and it was not a minute or a minute and a half after he gave the order to fire, until they did fire.
Q. How far were you from him?
A. I was standing about fifteen or twenty feet up off the railroad track right out to the switch-house.
Q. Would not a man have to have said something before he could have given the word "fire!"—you heard nothing before the word "fire!"?
A. They did not get away fast enough than was given to fire, and just about a minute afterward the firing took place.
William Black, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What is your full name?
A. William Black.
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Out at Millvale borough.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Boiler-puddler.
Q. Were you present at Twenty-eighth street on the 21st of July, Saturday, at the time of the firing?
A. I was a little while, about the time I seen the Philadelphia troops marching up the railroad four abreast, and they came to a halt just before they got to Twenty-eighth street. Came to a front and open order—rear open order, then the front rank came to about face, and they faced the rear rank. Then a company marched up through the center, right up front to Twenty-eighth street. I was standing outside then and heard the order given to fire.
Q. You were standing where?
A. Just across from Twenty-eighth street, outside the crowd.
Q. You were out behind the crowd?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You say you heard the command to fire?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you know who gave the command?
A. No, sir; I do not know who it was gave it.
Q. You just heard the word?
A. The minute the word was given to fire I left.
Q. Did you see anything of the firing? You left then—saw nothing of it?
A. No, sir; I left the place then after they started to fire.
Q. Then you know nothing about the firing, any more than you heard the command given—did it come from an officer?
A. I could not say that.
Q. Or was it from the crowd—did you hear the crowd talk about firing?
A. Not while I was there.
Q. Did you see anything thrown?
A. No, sir.
Q. Was there any disturbance there, any noise or resisting of the soldiers?
A. There was some noise there.
Q. What do you mean by some noise?
A. Some of them hollering "Hold the fort."
Q. What did they mean by holding the fort—holding Twenty-eighth street?
A. I suppose so.
Q. They meant to stay there in spite of the soldiers, was that the idea that you had—to stay there in spite of the soldiers?
A. I suppose that was their idea.
Q. Had you been there any time previous to the firing?
A. No, sir.
Q. You know nothing whatever of the events occurring before that?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see the soldiers afterwards?
A. No, sir; never saw them any more after that. I never crossed the river again until Monday, I came down to the city again.
Q. Do you know anything about any organization formed to resist the soldiers?
A. No, sir.
Q. Who went with you to the scene of the riot?
A. Saturday?
Q. Yes.
A. There was a friend of mine lives right over here.
Q. Was not there a large crowd of you went over there together?
A. No, sir; there was no crowd.
Q. What mill are you working at?
A. Graff & Bennett's.
Q. Was not there a large number of men from your mill went over there on Saturday just before the firing?
A. If they went over there I didn't know anything about it.
Q. Were the men working at that time—that afternoon?
A. Saturday they generally shut down about two o'clock or three o'clock.
Q. You were not working that day on Saturday?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What time did you leave the mill?
A. We shut down work about one o'clock at the upper end of the mill.
Q. About one o'clock?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Didn't most of the men who were at work in the forenoon come over to Twenty-eighth street?
A. I couldn't say anything about that at all.
Q. Didn't see a great many of them?
A. No, sir; there might have been a good many there, but I didn't see them, the crowd was so big.
Q. Was there any talk about there in the crowd when you were standing there. Did you hear any talk about resisting the soldiers, and not allow them to clear the track?
A. No, sir; I didn't hear anything of the kind.
Q. Was it people there just out of curiosity?
A. I couldn't say what they were there for.
Q. You were there out of curiosity, were you?
A. Yes; just come over to see the soldiers.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you hear any abusive or threatening language on the part of the crowd towards the soldiers?
A. No, sir; not at the time I remained there.
By Mr. Means:
Q. In the forenoon of Saturday, while at work, did you hear any of the men say that they were going over there in the afternoon after they quit work?
A. No, sir; I didn't hear the men say anything.
Q. Didn't have any talk about going over to the scene of this riot?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Were you there on Sunday?
A. No, sir. Didn't come over this side of the river on Sunday.
Q. Do you know of quite a number of citizens carrying away goods and bringing them over to near your works, in that vicinity?
A. No, sir.
Q. On Sunday?
A. Not that I know of.
Q. Did you see anybody carrying any plunder from the cars?
A. They didn't fetch it across there in the day time. I thought they were watching pretty sharp around there over the other side.
Charles P. Wall, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. What is your first name?
A. Charles P.
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Fourteenth ward.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Plumber.
Q. Were you at Twenty-eighth street on Saturday, the 21st July, the time of the firing?
A. Yes, sir; I was.
Q. Will you be kind enough to state what you saw?
A. I went there out of curiosity, to see what was going on, on Saturday afternoon, and shortly after I was there the Philadelphia soldiers came up with their posse, the sheriff at the head. I was standing on the track and toward the round-house, and General Pearson came round and said he was ordered to clear the track, so I got around and walked up Twenty-eighth and come around on the hill which looks down on the track, and the soldiers formed a hollow square—the soldiers facing the hill as well as facing the round-house—and then the soldiers marched towards Twenty-eighth street, and the command was given to charge bayonets. They charged, I think, but the men there could not or would not move away from Twenty-eighth street. The soldiers came up to them with their bayonets, and they grabbed the guns, and pushed them away from them. Then the order was given to fire. The men, after the order was given them, started to run down Twenty-eighth street. The men that were charging—that were facing Twenty-eighth street—could not fire because they were so close. The moment they started to run they brought their guns to bear on them, and fired on the crowd as they were running. The men facing the hill fired into the party standing on the hill, and I seen them commence to fire, and stayed there for some moments, and thought they were firing blank cartridges, until a party along side of me was shot in the head and dropped down, and I thought it was time to get, and I started.
Q. Where were you standing?
A. Standing right on the hill, looking down on the soldiers.
Q. How far from them?
A. I suppose between twenty and thirty feet.
Q. There is a road that runs up there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How far were you from that watch-house?
A. I was about thirty feet from the watch-house, I guess.
Q. Did you see anything thrown at the soldiers?
A. Yes; I saw some stones thrown.
Q. Anything fired at them—see any shots or hear any?
A. No, sir; didn't see or hear any shots.
Q. Were you close enough to tell who gave the order, or whether it was an order to fire?
A. Yes; I was close enough.
Q. Was it given by an officer?
A. Yes; it was.
Q. Do you know who the officer was?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. State his name?
A. General Pearson?
Q. Do you know General Pearson?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Personally?
A. Yes, sir; that is, I don't know the General personally to speak to him.
Q. I mean by sight—if you see General Pearson walking along?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where was he when he gave the command?
A. He was in the square, a little toward Twenty-eighth—nearer Twenty-eighth street than any other part of the square.
Q. Anybody near him?
A. Yes; Mr. Pitcairn and some of the other officers was handy.
Q. Any of the sheriff's posse?
A. I didn't notice.
Q. They were in front, were not they, when the troops came up?
A. The sheriff marched front; yes, sir.
Q. Did he stop and address the crowd?
A. I suppose he was addressing the crowd when I was going round, but as soon as he gave the command to clear the track, I was walking round to get on the hill.
Q. You are sure you heard General Pearson give the command?
A. Yes; positively.
Q. It was not somebody told you that that was Pearson?
A. No, sir; I know the man.
Q. Did you notice how he was dressed that day?
A. Yes, sir—not particularly. I noticed he had a blouse on, with brass buttons on, buttoned up. I suppose I was as close to him as I am to you when he gave the command to clear the track. He said he had orders to clear the track. As soon as I seen they were going to clear the track, I got off the track and walked around.
Q. Did he have a sword on?
A. Not that I could see.
Q. Did you notice whether any of the other officers had swords on?
A. No, sir; I did not notice particularly.
Q. How would you distinguish an officer?
A. Well, I would distinguish him by his clothes, of course.
Q. If there were a number of men there, how did you distinguish it was General Pearson gave the command?
A. I could not help to distinguish him, because I knew him personally—knew him to be what they call a general. He had a blouse on.
Q. Did he order them to load, or anything preliminary—he just said fire?
A. Just gave the command to fire?
Q. Did he give that directly to the men themselves?
A. I could not say whether it was direct to the men, because immediately after he gave the command to fire, they commenced to fire—whether it was passed down the line or not, I could not say.
Q. Did you see any of the soldiers struck with stones?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. How many stones were there thrown?
A. Oh, a good many.
Q. Quite a volley?
A. Quite a volley of stones thrown. They seemed to all come from one place, though. On the hillside, where I was standing, there was not a stone thrown.
Q. Any stones thrown from below where you were standing?
A. From towards the hospital, there was. That seemed to be the only place there was any stones coming from.
Q. What became of General Pearson after he gave this order?
A. I didn't wait to see what became of him. I seen him start towards the round-house. Then I started myself, and ran up the hill some three hundred or four hundred yards, and then I stopped.
Q. From what point did the stones appear to come?
A. From the direction of the hospital.
Q. In front of you?
A. No, sir; from the rear.
Q. Could you see who threw the stones?
A. No, sir; I did not.
Q. Did General Pearson have anything about him, or his uniform, that would indicate his rank?
A. He had a blouse on with brass buttons I think he had epaulets on his shoulders, I could not say positively. I knew the man, knew him to be a general.
Q. What kind of a hat did he wear?
A. He wore a slouch hat—a soft hat.
Q. Did you see any other officers there that wore hats?
A. No, I couldn't say that I did. I didn't take notice of the officers particularly. In fact I did not take notice of any of them.
Q. Did you see the troops after they came out of the round-house on Sunday?
A. No, sir; I didn't.
Q. Were you there during Saturday night?
A. No, sir; I left there as soon as they went into the round-house; then I left and went home; didn't go there until the next morning. I went over on the hill and stayed a while, then I went home again.
Q. Did you hear them talk in the crowd about resisting the soldiers?
A. No, sir; heard nothing said. The crowd seemed to be very orderly up to the time the Philadelphia soldiers came. I was among the crowd until past one o'clock or two o'clock, and the Fourteenth regiment had charge of the track, and the shifting engine was going backwards and forwards. Of course, there was a big crowd there; but they didn't interfere in any way that I saw.
By Mr. Means:
Q. Did you hear the crowd say what they would do when the Philadelphia soldiers came in?
A. No, sir; I didn't hear them say anything.
Q. They were looking for them, were they not?
A. Not that I know of; didn't hear them say so.
Q. Was it possible for you to be mistaken in the man that gave the command "fire?" Might it not have been somebody else?
A. I don't think so. I knew the general, and was close enough to hear distinctly.
Q. You knew the command really came from him?
A. Yes, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Was General Pearson facing towards Liberty street, or up the hill?
A. He was facing kind of towards Twenty-eighth street. Twenty-eighth crosses Liberty. That is where the most excitement was. The soldiers were trying to force them off the track. The crowd had gathered up the track, and they were trying to force them down. I suppose the men in front would have got out of that if they could, because I don't think any man would stand up to a bayonet.
Q. Facing towards Twenty-eighth and Liberty streets?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did the firing commence from that direction?
A. No; not just exactly. They fired into the car where they threw the stones first. When they started, the men that were standing on Twenty-eighth started to run.
Q. The crowd?
A. Then the soldiers brought their guns up and fired on them as they ran down Twenty-eighth street. Then the soldiers that was fronting the hill fired into the parties on the hill.
Q. Then the firing commenced on the line that were on Twenty-eighth street—lying parallel with Twenty-eighth street—facing up the track?
A. Yes; facing up the track.
Q. How long after that fire did the troops commence firing that were standing to their right, facing up the hill?
A. I suppose it was not more than ten or twelve seconds.
Q. Did those that were facing down towards Liberty street fire at that time?
A. No, sir; they did not.
Q. Did they fire at any time?
A. Not that I seen.
William J. McKay, sworn:
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Give your full name.
A. William J. McKay.
Q. Where do you reside?
A. Thirtieth and Penn street.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. Work in the Western air brake shop, on Twenty-fifth street.
Q. Were you present during Saturday, the 21st July, at Twenty-eighth street?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Be kind enough to state what came under your observation.
A. I was up there when the Philadelphia soldiers came. One of them got sun struck, and they had to carry him down to the office, Twenty-sixth street. That is all I have got to say.
Q. That is all you know about what occurred?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you in the telegraph office there?
A. I was in the superintendent's office.
Q. You know nothing of what occurred at the time the soldiers fired?
A. No, sir; didn't hear them fire at all.
Q. Did any of the officers come to the telegraph office while you were there?
A. One soldier, and some other men came down, I don't know who they were.
Q. Was he an officer?
A. I took him to be an officer.
Q. Did you know the man?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. What do you do at the Western air brake?
A. Chip brass castings.
Q. Where did you carry this man that was sick?
A. Carried him into the office—the left second door.
Q. What office?
A. The office under the superintendent's office; I don't know whose office it was.
Q. Was it a telegraph office?
A. I didn't take notice.
Q. Were you in the telegraph office at any time after you carried this man down?
A. No, sir; I was never in the office before in my life.
Q. It was not a telegraph office you carried this man to?
A. I didn't notice what office it was.
Q. It was the superintendent's office, you say?
A. No, sir; the superintendent's office is up stairs.
Q. Whom did you see there in this office, where you carried this soldier?
A. There was no person there.
Q. No one there at all?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you know where the telegraph was of the railroad company?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Where is it?
A. Twenty-sixth street—it was, before it was burned down, I don't know where it is now.
Q. Isn't there a telegraph office at the superintendent's office?
A. I don't know anything about that. I passed the office often, but I was never in it.
Q. What was this office used for that you carried the man to?
A. I don't know what it was for.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Were there any officers of the militia there when you went there with this man, except the one that helped?
A. No, sir; there was no other person in the room at all.
Q. Did you stay there with those men, or put him down?
A. We laid him down on two chairs, and there was a man came in and told us there was shooting up there, and I went up and left him there. The other two stayed there.
Q. Said they were shooting up there?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is that all he said about it?
A. That is all.
Q. Did he say anything about an order having been given to fire on the crowd?
A. No, sir; he just wheeled round and started back out again.
Q. Did you know this man?
A. No, sir.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You say there was no one in this office at all, when you carried this soldier there?
A. No, sir; there was no person in when we went in.
By Senator Reyburn:
Q. Did you see General Pearson about there?
A. I don't know the man. Never saw him.
Q. Did you see whether there was any other offices right there, close by this—that is, where you carried this soldier?
A. How do you mean?
Q. In the same building?
A. I didn't see any.
Q. The rooms close by these are used as offices?
A. Yes; there several rooms in this office. There may have been a thousand in there, but I didn't see them.
Q. On which side of the track, going down towards the Union depot?
A. It is on the right, coming down this way.
Q. Was it between the two tracks, between the Allegheny Valley and the Pennsylvania Central track?
A. Yes; it is right along side of the Allegheny track.
Q. Did you carry this man down the Allegheny track, or the Pennsylvania track?
A. Down the Pennsylvania.
Q. And then turned to the right?
A. Yes; where the engines come out of the round-house—carried him down across there, and went into the office.
Q. Is that the only building standing between these two tracks—the Allegheny Valley track and the Pennsylvania Central, in that vicinity?
A. No, sir; there is two or three dozen buildings.
Q. What were they?
A. There is a square shop, and the round-houses, and this shop, and then there is small buildings. I don't know what they are used for.
Q. There are offices in some of those buildings, are there not—machine shops for instance?
A. There is an office between the two round-houses—Shafer's office. That is the only one I know there.
Q. You are positive it was not the superintendent's office?
A. Yes, sir; the superintendent's office is up stairs.
Q. How many rooms were there down stairs?
A. I don't know how many; I was never in only this one.
Q. Were you there on Thursday or Friday previous to this?
A. Yes; I was up there.
Q. Do you know anything about the causes leading to this riot?
A. No, sir; only the double-headers. That is all I know.
Q. Did you hear any talk of resisting the troops if they attempted to clear the track?
A. No, sir.
Q. Did you see any stones or anything thrown at the soldiers?
A. No, sir; I was not there when they came up. This man fainted, and I helped to carry him down.
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. Did you notice whether there were any doors leading out of this office to any other rooms, or from the hall you went into to other rooms?
A. Yes, sir; as you go into the door there is a door leads to the left, past the stairs. There is one under the stairs.
Q. Did you go in the first door?
A. No, sir; the second.
Q. To the left?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Was the first door open on the left as you went in the hall?
A. I didn't notice; I know there is a door there, because I took notice to it as we went in—we went on to a second door. The other fellow helping to carry him seemed to know where to take him to, and I went along.
Q. Did you see anybody in the room—the first room—the front room—to which this door led to, through the windows or door?
A. No, sir; I could see no person.
D. L. Reynolds, sworn:
By Mr. Reyburn:
Q. What is your full name?
A. D. Leach Reynolds.
Q. Where do you reside?
A. At the time of this trouble I resided in the Twelfth ward, on Thirtieth street.
Q. What is your occupation?
A. I was conductor on the road at that time.
Q. Do you know anything of the causes leading to this strike?
A. Yes, sir; the more important cause of it was the abuse of the men by the petted officials, such as despatchers, and so forth, and the double-headers.
Q. What do you mean by the petted parties?
A. It is just this way: They have a set of men that are posted, not only in Pittsburgh, but at the principal stations, whose duty it is to give the conductors orders, what they shall do with the cars, what cars they shall set off and take on, and they can either give a man a nice train or a train where there is no work to do, or they can give all the work to one man—one man they give all the work to do, and one man they let go behind with nothing to do. It caused a great deal of dissatisfaction, and a great deal of growling. As sure as a man did any growling, that man would be discharged the next trip.
Q. Are you employed by the railroad now?
A. No, sir; I left the road on the 16th August.
Q. Were you present on Saturday, the time the troops came in collision with the crowd?
A. I was.
Q. State what you saw?
A. I went up there about half-past one or two o'clock in the afternoon, and saw the crowd that was standing on Twenty-eighth street, and didn't like the looks of it. There was some rather rough characters there. I do not know who they were, and where they belonged. I then took up a position in the hospital grounds, about one hundred yards from the track, one side of a tree that stands by the fence, so that I could fully see and observe all that was going on. The report was that they were going to send a train out, with lots of militia, and General Pearson on the cow-catcher. I was waiting to see if the train succeeded in getting through the crowd. The Philadelphia troops, as I was going up Twenty-eighth street, came in. I believe the second section was coming in at the time I was going up. I remained up there, I presume, all of two hours before the Philadelphia troops came up the track. I was looking in so many different directions that I could not tell you whether General Pearson and Pitcairn, and the sheriff, was in front of the soldiers or not. I saw the entire body of them as they came up. I do not remember of any persons or citizens of the Commonwealth in front of the militia when they came up and formed their hollow square. Then I saw Mr. Pitcairn plainly, and, also, General Pearson. Sheriff Fife I did not see. At the time they formed their hollow square, they threw out a platoon, as has been described, but across the front end of the square. That platoon undertook to chase the crowd back off the railroad tracks, off Twenty-eighth street. They refused to go back, and, of course, that is where the riots began. The soldiers tried to drive them back by shoving them back with their breasts. They refused to be pushed back. Then they undertook to charge them back with their bayonets. After that they fell back a step or two, and I heard the order to fire, and they did fire with good effect. About that time I took up over the hill, and came down the other way, a few minutes after the fire. I presume I was about fifty feet from the front end of the soldiers. They were then moving around somewhat, and I asked one of the railroad boys if he had seen any of our boys fall. He said there was three or four. I asked him if any of the soldiers were killed. About that time there was a gun went off—I think it went off in the air—and just then I seen one of the conductors coming down with his arm resting on his coat. He had taken his coat off, and I went over to and asked him how bad he was hurt. He said his arm was weak, so that he could not hold it up. I assisted him down to Penn street, and put him in a grocer's wagon, and took him to Doctor Clark's, and went to my own house and told my wife I was not hurt. I didn't find her there, I found her on Penn street. I put her in a baker shop, and then went off to look for some more friends. About this time they threw the platoon of soldiers across Twenty-eighth street, and I supposed they were going to fire, and I got into a hotel where I heard there was some wounded, to hear who they were. There had been some there, but they had been removed. I afterwards saw them bringing down an old gentleman, Mr. Stockel. I went home that evening, got my supper and remained at home until, I presume, it was three o'clock. Then I took my wife and started down to see. At Twenty-eighth street the crowd had got so dense that I went into a drug store, and while I was in there, a whole party went by, with a drum beating in front of them. They were whooping and hollering. I don't remember that there was any firearms in the party, but I know they had a big drum, and were pounding on that. As soon as they got by, I says, I will take my wife home. I took her home, and after I got there, the neighbors and her together persuaded me to remain there, and the consequence was I didn't go away from my own door stoop that evening. I went to bed, I presume it was about half past nine o'clock, and on Sunday morning, I presume about two or three o'clock, she tried to awaken me to tell me the Pennsylvania railroad property was on fire, but she could not get me awake, and later in the morning, when the Philadelphia soldiers were going up Penn street, they formed a platoon in front of my house. I started out to hear where they had gone to, and found out that they were gone up the street.
Q. Did you see anybody fire on them?
A. No, sir; I didn't.
Q. Was there any talk of resisting these soldiers in clearing the track, and preventing them from running trains?
A. You might hear men talking of a great many things, but nobody could imagine what they were going to do. Nobody had any firearms to resist anything with. They were asking the question, that there were one thousand five hundred Philadelphia soldiers coming, and what are you going to do with them?
Q. The crowd resisted the soldiers, did they, when they attempted to clear the track?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. The soldiers did not use any more force than was necessary, at first?
A. No, sir; they did not use any force at all, but simply pushed ahead with their breasts.
Q. Tried to push the crowd back quietly?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Did you see any stones thrown?
A. I saw one that I took to be a clod of earth, about the size of my hand, thrown from the west side of the watch-box from the side of the hill, down into the soldiers. That was the only stone I saw thrown that day.
Q. You were not near enough to tell who ordered the firing?
A. I could hear a great many words. I could not hear sentences, but I heard the word, "fire," distinctly. I could not hear any conversation unless it was in a loud tone of voice, but I heard, "fire," as distinctly as you speak.
Q. Did the soldiers fire in a volley?
A. No; more like one soldier got scared and he fires off his gun, and the balance follow suit.
Q. What was the objection to running double-headers?
A. It puts two men's work on one man for one man's pay. We had been reduced so often that we thought they had got about as low as we could live.
Q. How much did you average?
A. If I averaged full time, it was $70 20 per month before the reduction. After that I got $2 45 a day, and never got a full month. If you want to know all about their wages, I can tell you from the first reduction. When I went on the road they were paying conductors $2 60 a day.
Q. When was that?
A. The 21st February, 1872, I think. They were paying conductors then $2 60 a day, and there was an order came out—or rather the men wanted more wages, and the committee went to Philadelphia, and it was arranged that conductors, who had been running trains prior to March 1, would get $2 85. New conductors were only to get $2 45. When I went on the road first I acted in the capacity of brakeman for about eight weeks, and on the 24th day of April I took out my first train, and I received $2 45 for that. I ran from the 21st day of April till the 16th of June as extra conductor, part of the time running trains and part of the time not. After the 16th day of June I got a regular train, and I ran that for a whole year for $2 45, and from the 16th day of June till the 1st day of next January I received $2 70, which I was led to suppose was a raise of ten per cent. On the 1st day of January an order came out that we should be reduced, and that cut me down to $2 40. I could not understand how a reduction of ten per cent. would take off more than an increase of ten per cent., and I had an interview with Mr. Pitcairn and the only satisfaction I got, that the company was losing money. The 16th day of June my wages went up to $2 70, and that was the wages I received up until the day of the last reduction, when they cut me down to $2 45.
Q. You had been getting $2 70, and they cut you down to $2 40, then you went to talk to Mr. Pitcairn, and he told you that the business was bad, and they had to make this reduction?
A. I did not make any complaint. They reduced by tens instead of by fives.
Q. What reason did he give?
A. He could not give me any reason, he said it was done on higher authority.
Q. I understood you to say, he said something about business was poor?
A. He said that the company was losing money. He took into consideration the different conductors, and they had different pay, and the conclusion was that they were losing money.
Q. Then they reduced you?
A. They reduced me to $2 40 at that time. They ran the first year for $2 20, and the second year for $2 45, and the third year for $2 70—so the order was in the start out. I never happened to come in under the $2 20 list, they raised me to $2 70, then they cut me down to $2 40, and I had to work from June to January, at $2 40, and then went up again to $2 70, on account of the year having expired.
Q. What was the pay of the brakesman?
A. Brakesmen originally received $2 00 a day, then afterwards they were cut down to $1 80, and the last reduction brought them down to $1 65.
Q. Did you know what wages they were making on an average?
A. They, as a general thing, made pretty near only about $26 per month. Some months a man can make almost double time, other months he could not make so much.
Q. Did that depend upon his being attentive?
A. No, sir; it depended entirely on his business. A new man was treated the same as an old man, so far as going out was concerned, unless he was an extra brakeman. If he was regular, on a regular run, he went on that train every time.
Q. Of course, if he was not there to go out, some one took his place?
A. If he was not there to go out, they always supplied a man in his place—the crew was slim, I think, as it was.
Q. The man that was there always got his work?
A. I never lost a day on the Pennsylvania railroad by being absent, unless it was voluntarily or freight was scarce. Sometimes freight was scarce for a month, and they would have to cut one train off one day, and once they sent me home in July, for a week. It was on account of trade being very dull.
By Mr. Means:
Q. You are not in the employ of the road now?
A. No, sir.
Q. When did you leave it?
A. On the 16th day of August.
Q. Was there more of the hands left at that time?
A. The road was principally operated after the strike was over, by the same that had been on the line before the strike, and I was among the number, and about the time I stopped off, things began to assume the old fashioned shape—one day they would want me and the next day they would not, and I went to Mr. Pitcairn and asked him for an order for my money, and he said it was not necessary to give an order to get me the money.
Q. Quit of your own accord?
A. I suppose I would have been discharged if I had stuck to it.
William M. McKay, was recalled and explained to the committee the situation of the room where the soldier who was sun struck was taken into.
Colonel Smith, re-called:
By Senator Yutzy:
Q. You heard the last witness describe the building, and the manner in which he entered that building, and the way that he entered—where he says he left the soldier was at the telegraph office?
A. It was not a telegraph office. [Witness explains the situation of the rooms in the building on a plot.] This is the telegraph office, and this is the train master. I presume by the description that was where the soldier was taken. This is the passage connecting the main entrance of the building with the telegraph office. This is the first floor—the first floor above the basement—there is a basement under the telegraph office, and the superintendent's private office is immediately over this, on the second floor. The outer office of the superintendent is there on the second floor, and the clerks here. Three on the first and three on the second, and this is the trainmen's room, this is a sort of counter here with windows where trainmen come up to get their orders.