REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877. (continued 4)

Q. He called in the capacity of a private citizen?

A. Yes.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Who is he?

A. The president of the Mason's bank. I found, on inquiry, that the mayor was not about when I got to his office. I was informed by his clerk, Mr. Metzgar, that he had gone out to Castle Shannon in the afternoon. That his wife was sick, and that he had gone to see her. I then asked whether anything could be done to call out the night force, fearing from the way the crowd was increasing that there might be considerable trouble. They said they could not send the police force out there and leave the balance of the city unprotected. I then drove up here to the sheriff's office—or rather the captain drove up—and found all closed here. I then drove to the sheriff's residence, on Washington street, and they replied that he was out of the city, but was expected back during the evening. I then went back to the office, and found that we could not make any movement that night, though we held the crews ready to go in case we had a chance to move.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What night was this?

A. It was on Thursday night. I reported the condition of affairs to Mr. John Scott, who had called at the office on his way into town, in pursuance of a message from the east, to consult with Mr. Pitcairn. During that night, and before twelve o'clock, the crowd was accumulating, and had entire possession of the tracks at Twenty-eighth street, so that we were unable to move even the engines engaged in the yard transfer work. The engineers had all been notified to put up their engines, and go into the house, and the movement of stock was interfered with. The movement of stock from the western roads—some was turned back. There seemed to be some trouble among the parties themselves as to whether the stock should go on or be sent back. I called at the office of the Pennsylvania company, to get the Honorable John Scott to go with me, and we called upon the sheriff in the name of the company for protection, and stated all that had been done up to that time. The sheriff got his deputy, who lived across the way, and we all drove out to the outer depot. On the way out we saw Mr. Pitcairn walking up, and took him in and rode to the outer depot—I think a little after twelve o'clock, midnight; the sheriff, after a consultation, went with General Pearson and some twenty or thirty men of our employés, myself among the number, to Twenty-eighth street. He there mounted upon a plank leading up on to a gondola, so that his head was above the crowd, and addressed them, advising them to leave and go to their homes, stating what his duty would be in case they did not go. He was greeted with all sorts of vile abuse, and told to go home. I will not repeat the language. He found he could do nothing there with them. He was jeered at, and while he was addressing the crowd pistol shots were fired in the air. That crowd was composed of some few railroad men, but the majority were not railroad men—a great number of them were mill men, and some of them with no occupation at all.

Q. How large was the crowd at that time?

A. I should judge in the neighborhood of two hundred men. The sheriff then went back to the superintendent's office, and entered into communication with Harrisburg and other points, sending the telegrams as described by Mr. Scott. There was no other attempt made that night to move anything, except stock to the stockyard from the connecting lines.

Q. What occurred on Friday morning?

A. We had crews brought in from Derry—that is the train-masters. They came in as passengers, ready to take the trains east. The majority of the engineers, up to this time, had professed their entire willingness to run at any and all times, but the crowd, on Friday, had increased to such an extent that it was not deemed prudent to attempt to start the trains without some protection afforded to the men running them, at least through the crowd. Very little was done during Friday, except the movement of stock. Friday night the troops were moved, the Fourteenth and Nineteenth regiments, I believe, to the neighborhood of Twenty-eighth street. I expected on Saturday morning that we would start our trains without much trouble. I believe they took almost complete and entire possession of Twenty-eighth street and the switches that we needed to get our trains out.

Q. That is the troops took possession?

A. Yes; they had full possession of Twenty-eighth street on Saturday morning.

Q. And all the switches you needed to get your trains out?

A. Yes. But the crowd assembled in very large numbers, and it was not long before the crowd had possession of them, and all the ground.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Driving the troops off?

A. There was no conflict at all. The troops were stationed, one regiment on the hillside, probably some two hundred feet back from the line of the railroad, with their arms stacked, and another regiment was stationed on the road leading up to the hospital grounds, east of Twenty-eighth street, with their arms stacked, and a few men were on the crossing.

By Mr. Means:

Q. I want to know if those troops left their arms stacked while the crowd was still accumulating?

A. The crowd was in and about there. Do you mean whether or not the crowd could have taken possession of any of those arms without interference?

Q. No; but whether while the crowd was still accumulating the troops had their arms stacked?

A. The crowd was accumulating, and continued accumulating up to the time of the firing.

Q. And the arms were still stacked?

A. Yes, sir; while I was there.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. That is Friday evening?

A. No; Saturday morning. Mr. Pitcairn, and Mr. Cassett, and General Pearson, and other officers were at the Union depot. I remained at Twenty-sixth street, awaiting any instruction that might be sent me. I was advised by Mr. Pitcairn to hold myself in readiness to move some trains on Saturday afternoon—that the sheriff and posse were coming up the track, and that they would be followed by the troops, and that he expected that the crowd would be dispersed, and that we would be furnished a sufficient guard to place upon each one of those trains to move them out beyond Torrens, or to any other point where we might expect trouble. I waited, and met them as they came up. They were followed by quite a large concourse of persons. The troops held the track about opposite Twenty-fifth street, and there the Second brigade of the Philadelphia troops was left. I do not now remember the name of the general in command. However I was left with him. The First brigade moved on to Twenty-eighth street. This Second brigade threw out a skirmish line across the entire yard, with instructions from the general to drive back everybody. It was General Loud. He threw out a skirmish line and drove all parties west a sufficient distance for us to couple together all our cars and to make up our trains to go out.

Q. Drove them towards the city, you mean?

A. Yes; quite a crowd of the transfer clerks, and some of our engineers, and oil men, and repair men were on the tops of the cars, who claimed to be employés, and had business there. General Loud sent an officer to me and asked if they were to remain there or whether we wanted them. I told him that we did not want anybody within a certain distance. When we had made attempts, prior to that, to couple up the trains, the links and pins all along had been taken out. I went down and advised the transfer clerks to go into the office, and I told the officer that when any of our men had business to be inside, they should be let through, and I told them that if we wanted them we could advise them. After having cleared off that space, we heard firing. I looked up in the direction of Twenty-eighth street, and saw a crowd coming down, a portion of them coming down towards where I was, right opposite the mouth of Twenty-sixth street. Seeing the crowd coming, I had the gate thrown open—the gate that closes the shops and the exit gate on Liberty street thrown open—and directed colonel, some one of the Greys, to throw a body across to prevent them going down the space he had cleared, and that we could turn them out at that point out on Twenty-sixth street. That firing occurred about five o'clock. When I speak of time in my testimony, I speak altogether of railroad time. There was no further attempt made that night to start trains. The excitement was so great, and it was quite late, so the men refused to go for fear of being thrown off the track at some point on the road. I believe that brings me up to the time of the firing.

Q. You had a space sufficient cleared to enable you to get your cars out?

A. Our engines were backed down from the round-house on to those tracks that the trains were standing on. We had cleared off a space there from the side hill to the line of the "transfer" clear of anyone and everyone.

Q. What prevented you from moving out your trains at that time?

A. The men got frightened at the firing, and started off. They were afraid that if they made an attempt at that time in that excitement that they would be thrown from the track.

Q. Where were the militia then?

A. General Loud was still in his position between Twenty-sixth street, and, I should judge, Twenty-fourth. The First division was at Twenty-eighth street, and a considerable portion of the crowd was between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-eighth streets, between the two bodies of troops. I asked the colonel in charge of this Grey regiment not to allow his men to fire on the crowd coming down, that they could be turned out at Twenty-sixth street, and that some of our men were there who were all right. He got in front of his men and cautioned them. He first gave the command to a captain to have his men load their pieces. That was done, and then he cautioned his men, saying it was a very delicate matter, indeed, and that the men should be very careful, and that when there was any necessity for any firing that the men must remember that he would give the command.

Q. How long did the troops remain stationed as you have described?

A. I cannot answer that as to time. I went to the office and there saw General Pearson and General Brinton, and some of the others in consultation. They were all close around the shops, and they then turned and moved into the shops. I suppose it was then about six o'clock.

Q. Where did the troops stay during the night?

A. I was not there during the night.

Q. Do you know from your own knowledge?

A. They stayed in what we call the lower round-house and lock-shops.

Q. What troops stayed there?

A. I understand the Philadelphia troops, General Brinton's command, and the two pieces belonging to the battery here were taken into the round-house. The Fourteenth regiment had been stationed at the transfer building. The reason, I think, for their going into the shops, as I understood it, was that the men who were there had come without any preparation, and as there were to be no trains run out that night, they would go into the shops to be as comfortable as possible.

Q. Was any further effort made during that night to start any trains?

A. We were unable to make any efforts further.

Q. Can you tell us what became of the crowd during the night?

A. The crowd around the buildings accumulated so that in front of the office, at the corner of Twenty-sixth and Liberty, and for some distance on either side of it—that being the head-quarters—the office—they had taken possession of Mr. Pitcairn's office for the head-quarters—the crowd was very dense, and packed down Twenty-sixth street, probably half way to Penn, and on Liberty street, in every direction, for a square—an immense crowd of people yelling with rage against the troops.

Q. How many would you judge were there at that time?

A. Not less than five thousand people.

Q. Did they remain in force during all the night?

A. I was not there during all the time, but I understood they were constantly accumulating.

Q. Until Sunday morning?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How large was the crowd on Sunday morning?

A. I cannot answer that. I was on the side hill early on Sunday morning, and I could see immense crowds in all directions moving up Liberty street.

Q. Can you tell us what the result of that firing, at the point cleared, was as to loss of life?

A. I am not prepared to answer that. If you will remember, I was stationed at Twenty-sixth street, and was not at Twenty-eighth street. At the time of the firing, I was with the second brigade of General Brinton's division. There passed me, and were taken into our office, several soldiers belonging to the First regiment, and a boy who was shot down. I should judge a boy about twelve or fourteen years of age. There were two men carrying him. Quite a number of wounded soldiers were taken to the office, and they sent for Doctor Hamilton.

Q. Can you state what efforts were made, after the troops were taken into the round-house and the shops, by the officers of the militia to drive back the crowd and disperse it there that night or Sunday morning, or during the day of Sunday?

A. When they went into the round-house, I understood they would keep under cover. I do not think, from all I understood, it was the intention of the troops to come into any collision. They felt that they were brought there to protect the movement of trains, and that there would be a guard go out on each train, after having obtained possession of the Twenty-eighth street switches.

Q. What time did the firing of cars commence by the mob?

A. I cannot answer that from my own knowledge. I believe in the neighborhood of ten o'clock.

Q. Saturday night?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was any attempt made by the officers of the troops, or by the civil authorities, either of the county or city, to prevent that, and to drive back the crowd when they began to fire the cars and destroy property?

A. I cannot answer that. I did not see any.

Q. By any of the authorities?

A. I did not see any.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Did it appear that the citizens were in sympathy with the strikers?

A. I am a Pittsburgher.

Q. But I ask were the citizens in sympathy with the strikers?

By Senator Yutzy: I think, Mr. Chairman, that that question ought to be modified. All the citizens were not present.

By the witness:

A. If you asked me the question whether or not the citizens, or any number of them, came to me and offered their assistance, then I might answer the question. The crowd certainly manifested no disposition to assist in the running of trains. The crowd, of course, was in sympathy. I speak of those who were present at Twenty-eighth street and Twenty-sixth street, on Liberty street, fronting the office, and I should say there were none at all in sympathy with the railroad company, but the soldiers.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. But that does not answer my question. I desire to know whether the citizens were not in sympathy with the strikers?

By Senator Yutzy: I repeat, Mr. Chairman, that I do not think this question should be put to the witness. I move that the committee retire for a few moments' consultation.

This motion being agreed to, the committee retired.

Upon returning, the chairman of the committee announced to the witness that the question would not be pressed for the present.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What time did the first firing occur?

A. In the neighborhood of five o'clock. It was, probably, a few minutes after five o'clock.

Q. But when did the first firing occur—that is, when was the fire first kindled by the mob?

A. In the neighborhood of ten o'clock.

Q. Was any effort made by the railroad company, during the night, to prevent the firing and destruction of property?

A. I would hardly know how to answer that. The railroad employés that we had considered loyal and ready to run, when we desired them to go on the trains, had gone to their homes, it not being deemed prudent to run any trains that night. I left the outer depot in the neighborhood of seven o'clock, to go down to the Union depot for supper, and to arrange for the sending of supper for General Pearson's staff, and General Brinton's staff, and all his brigade generals' staff. I went to the Union depot with Mr. Pitcairn and Mr. Cassatt, and, I think, Colonel Smith, on engine forty-five. At that time the military were in possession of the shops and round-house, and I did not anticipate that anything would be done until daylight. The firing of the cars was, I understand, up at Lawrenceville, or just within sight of there, and the cars were dropped down, and the switches so turned that they would run towards the round-house—the burning cars, these, of course, would communicate to other cars.

Q. Would the cars run themselves?

A. It is down grade from East Liberty to Lawrenceville, and there a moderate down grade until about Twenty-sixth street, where there is a short level space, probably, two or three squares, and then there is an up grade west of that point until you reach about opposite St. Bridget's church, where again it is down grade, so that a car started from the east would run towards the round-house, and a car started from the west end of the yard would run toward the round-house.

Q. Do you know how long the troops remained in the round-house?

A. I understand they left between five and six o'clock that morning.

Q. Sunday morning?

A. Yes.

Q. You were not present there?

A. No.

Q. You do not know what occurred from your own knowledge?

A. Except from what I saw from the hillside.

Q. You were present during the day—Sunday?

A. No.

Q. Were you where you could see the movement of the rioters?

A. Not after four o'clock, Sunday morning.

Q. How long did the riotous proceedings continue—in other words, when did the mob disperse and cease their burning and destruction of property?

A. I left town on Sunday night at nine o'clock, and I understand they were still riotous. Of my own knowledge I know nothing after that time. Our head-quarters were at Blairsville intersection.

Q. When did you first get control of your road and property at this point?

A. Mr. Pitcairn came west from Blairsville intersection on Wednesday, July 25, I think on the Johnstown accommodation. We were then running our through connections over the West Penn Division, from Allegheny city to Blairsville intersection, and on the main line as far as East Liberty, our mail trains, and our passenger trains, and our Uniontown express over the south-west road.

Q. Were you present when the troops fired upon the crowd? If so, state all the circumstances that took place at that time?

A. I have already said that I was not at Twenty-eighth street at the time of the firing, but was with General Loud at Twenty-sixth street.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You know nothing then as to what transpired at Twenty-eighth street?

A. Except by seeing the crowd running, and hearing the firing, which was of an irregular character—not a volley at all.

By Mr. Means:

Q. The firing was something like the firing of a skirmish line?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Who composed the crowd at that time? Were they railroad employés or stragglers in general, or were there any other persons in the vicinity mixed with the crowd to any extent?

A. There was quite a very large number of lookers on, stationed on the hill side above—men, women, and children, scattered all along, probably for a distance of fifty thousand feet.

Q. How close were they to the persons carrying on the riot?

A. Probably from a hundred to two hundred and fifty feet above them. And at Twenty-eighth street, and east and west of Twenty-eighth street, and covering all of the tracks before the troops came up, there were many people. All our trains passing—we were running all the accommodation trains east and west—were boarded at Twenty-eighth street by the crowd, who filled them up, and ran through the cars, and piled upon the engines, so as to seriously interfere with the men in the performance of their duties. The crowd, many through curiosity, went upon the trains in such force that it was useless for any of our men to attempt to collect fare. The engines were perfectly black, both in front of the engine and the tank and the platform. A great number of those men got on and would go through the trains to see who was in them, before they would let them proceed.

Q. Were the passenger trains interfered with by the mob?

A. All were stopped at Twenty-eighth street, and the mob went through and examined each and every train for soldiers.

Q. And then allowed them to go on?

A. Sometimes it was a very serious question. If we had not had some engineers determined that they were going to try to get their trains through, they would have cut the passenger trains off and allowed nothing but mail cars to go.

By Mr. Means:

Q. On the 23d of July, did the sheriff not throw a guard around the burned district?

A. I was stationed then at Blairsville Intersection, and I cannot answer that question of my own knowledge.

Q. Then you do not know whether on or after the 23d day of July the railroad company could or could not have had entire control, if they had seen fit?

A. Most decidedly they could not, simply for the fact that they could not get beyond Lawrenceville station.

Q. But did not the sheriff throw a guard around the burned district?

A. I don't know. I was not in the city on the 23d of July. But the tracks were all burned between Thirty-third street, or Lawrenceville, and the Union depot.

Orphans' Court Room, Pittsburgh, Friday, February 8, 1878.

MORNING SESSION.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at ten o'clock, A.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

The first witness examined was:

Norman M. Smith, sworn with the uplifted hand:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. State where you reside and what your official connection with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company is?

A. I reside in the Twenty-second ward of Pittsburgh. I am manager of the Pittsburgh transfer station.

Q. How long have you filled that position?

A. About twelve and a half years.

Q. State to the committee, in your own way, what the causes were that led to the riot, or what the disagreements were between the Pennsylvania Railroad Company and their employés, and give the history of what you saw.

A. My position was not such that I can speak from personal observation as to the causes. Of course, I understood them to be the ten per cent. reduction, which had taken place on the 1st of June, and after that the increased running of double-headers on freight trains. I understood these to be the causes. My more immediate connection with the trouble commenced on the morning of Thursday, July 19. About nine o'clock that morning my foreman came to me, and informed me that there was difficulty in getting out our east bound freights—that the train men had refused to go out, unless the trains stopped running as double-headers. I went from my office up to the outer depot, and there found that the crews had refused to run. Shortly after that I met Mr. Garrett, the assistant train master, and Mr. McCabe, the general dispatcher, and they informed me that they were going to the transfer station to detail our yard crews to run along the road. I remained there long enough to see one of the crews arrive. They came and attempted to couple a caboose car on one of the engines. A brakeman by the name of Gerry was making the coupling, when he was attacked by a number of train men, and driven away with a shower of stones, and links, and coupling-pins. I saw him struck. A further effort to remove the train was not made. About a quarter before twelve, I walked up to the outer depot again, and just at that moment a car came up with some ten or a dozen policemen. I then met Mr. Watt, and walked with him and the policemen up to Twenty-eighth street. A yard engine was standing on the switch there, and an attempt was made to get it out. Mr. Watt instructed a conductor named Moore to turn the switch, in order to let the engine out. Moore declined to do it, giving as his reason that he had been threatened with violence if he did so. Mr. Watt then made the attempt to turn the switch himself. Just at that moment, a man standing there raised his hand, perhaps with his hat in it, and said: "Come on, boys, we will die right here." Mr. Watt directed an officer to arrest him, and at that moment he was struck, by a man named McCullough, in the eye. The policemen made a rush on McCullough, and, after being interfered with by his friends, he was arrested. Mr. Watt then requested me to go to the telegraph office, and telegraph to Mayor McCarthy for fifty additional policemen. I sent a message, as near as I recollect, in these words: "Please send fifty additional policemen at once," and signed Mr. Watt's name to it. That message went a quarter before one, Philadelphia time. I then returned to Twenty-eighth street, and remained there perhaps two hours, and then returned to my office about three o'clock, and then returned to the outer depot. An additional police force of perhaps five or six men had responded to the call for fifty. A train was made up, two engines were attached to it, and it was ready to move. When the order was given to go ahead, a number of strikers got in front, and signaled it to stop, when it commenced moving. One of the engineers whistled down brakes, and the train stopped. There was some wrangling there, and the engineer of the forward engine, a man named Woodward, got off the engine, and was immediately greeted with cheers by the crowd, and made a hero of. I had an engagement at the house then, and left. I did not return until the next morning. The next morning I found the crowd still at Twenty-eighth street, and the condition of the yard the same as the night before. No trains had been moved. About eleven o'clock, a committee of employés at the transfer station came to the office, and informed us that they intended to strike, unless the ten per cent. was restored. We told them we could only submit their demand to those in authority over us, that we had no function in the matter at all. The committee retired to discuss the matter with their fellow workmen. About twelve o'clock, perhaps a little before, a committee from the strikers—a committee of brakemen, I am told—I was not present at the time—came to the men, and made a speech to them, and told them if they would strike, they would protect them, and guarantee places after the strike was over. A majority of our men then went with this committee that came down in the direction of Twenty-eighth street. I remained on the platform, and saw such of the men as I could, and I found those I talked with were opposed to striking, and ready to go to work; and one by one the men who had gone off with the committee returned, or a number of them. These men said they were led into the thing against their wishes and judgment, and that they were ready to work. Of course, they did not like the reduction, but they must work if they could get it. I told them to leave their names with the foreman, directed him to take them, and told them as soon as they had given their names to return to their homes, and that as soon as we wanted them we would send for them. Our work, of course, had stopped with the stopping of the trains. I remained about the office until four o'clock in the afternoon, and then went to the Union depot. I there met Mr. Pitcairn, and he requested me to remain with him. Shortly after my arrival there, I found that a section of artillery and a portion of the Nineteenth regiment had reported for duty. The Eighteenth regiment, under Colonel Guthrie, I had seen going east on a passenger train, about noon, on the way, I ascertained, to Torrens station. Breck's two guns and the Nineteenth regiment were ready for orders. We started out Liberty street. After we had gone a square or so, we halted, and I heard Senator Scott, and Mr. Thaw, and Mr. Cassatt, and Mr. Pitcairn, and General Pearson in consultation. Certain of these gentlemen deprecated the movement of the troops at that time, thinking that the number was not sufficient to meet the strikers then at Twenty-eighth street, and fearing a precipitation of the conflict. After this consultation, those troops were recalled, and brought on to the platform of the Union depot. A number of us, Mr. Pitcairn, Mr. Cassatt, General Pearson, Mr. Watt, and myself, and, perhaps, others, I do not recollect now, discussed the matter there, and General Pearson said that he would await the arrival of the Fourteenth regiment. When that came, probably about nine o'clock, on Friday the 20th, he proposed moving out the tracks to Twenty-eighth street, and hauling his guns after him. I objected to the movement, and was asked the reasons for my objection. I stated them to be, that I thought that at eight or nine o'clock that night the crowd would be very large, and that the movement would be a mistake. I suggested, instead of that movement, to wait until about three o'clock in the morning, when the crowd would be at a minimum, and then move out Bedford avenue with the Fourteenth regiment, and so give time for the Nineteenth regiment to arrive by the time the ground was cleared by the Fourteenth. Then, if the crowd did not go away, to drive them away, and occupy the hill and crossing, and keep them clear. Then, I thought, we could start the trains. After considerable discussion, that plan was adopted. I remained at the Union depot, and met Adjutant General Latta when he arrived.

Q. What time did he arrive?

A. On the fast line, that came in about twelve o'clock Friday night—may be a few minutes later. General Latta was advised of the proposed movement, and was particular in his inquiries in regard to it. He first hesitated in authorizing it, fearing a precipitation of the conflict. We argued that the probability of a conflict would be avoided by making that movement; that perhaps there would only be a couple of hundred men there and that we could occupy the place without difficulty, and once in control could keep it without further trouble. After the facts were presented, he declined to interfere with General Pearson's arrangement. About two o'clock, the Fourteenth regiment was ordered to return to the city, with the understanding that as soon as they got to a certain point they were to turn and go out Bedford avenue. Before this, however, I was directed to arrange to have two gondola cars to mount the guns on, and to have two engines to push them up. I was to man them and run them up on parallel tracks, with the Nineteenth regiment supporting them. I went to the depot master, and requested him to get the gondolas, and asked him how many engines he had. He replied that he had one yard shifter. I told him to order out two engines for the Pacific express, and told him I had authority from Mr. Pitcairn to give the order. The engines were ordered out, but the mob refused to allow but one to go. The Fourteenth regiment had started out Bedford avenue. After my return, I started out the track, and went up through the ravine there west of Twenty-eighth street, overlooking the location of the mob, then I passed the Pest house and met the Fourteenth regiment on Bedford avenue, and turned them through the ravine east of the Pest house, explaining the topography of the hill to the commanding officer, telling him how to deploy his regiment. We then moved forward in regimental front. We started a few people on the hill, and they ran down the track. Just as we got to the lower bench of the hill the battery and the Nineteenth regiment arrived on the ground. The crossing was occupied and cleared. We then returned to the Union depot to prepare some provision for the troops. About seven o'clock we started out, Mr. Pitcairn, General Pearson, myself, and others. At Twenty-eighth street we halted, and I called General Pearson's attention to the hill, and the general location. We had some consultation about it, and General Pearson admitted that it was a position to be occupied and held. He then went to the other side of the tank of the engine, and directed somebody to hold the hill and allow nobody to go on it, and to keep the crossings clear, and to allow nobody to come on them. We then went on to Torren's station, to Colonel Guthrie's camp. He gave his orders, and he then said he would return to the city and await the arrival of the Philadelphia troops. The first detachment arrived at one o'clock, and the second about half past two o'clock. They were given a lunch there, and at about four o'clock, perhaps a little after, we started out the tracks. Sheriff Fife, with a posse of perhaps twelve or fifteen men, marched ahead of the column some distance, with warrants for the arrest of certain parties who were supposed to be ringleaders, and Mr. Pitcairn and myself accompanied the sheriff to point out these men. When we came opposite the transfer station, I pointed out a couple of avenues leading in from Liberty street, and said it might be well to guard them, and we made a detail to guard that place. The rest of the column then moved on. We saw, directly, that the hill side, instead of being kept clear was covered with people, and also the crossings. The troops marched up with the First regiment—I think the regiment of Colonel Benson—in advance, and on Twenty-eighth street came into line. Colonel Benson then formed two sides of a square, making the north and south sides of the square, and two companies came up in company front and formed the first side of the square, facing east. The Gatling guns took position in the rear of the east side of the square. Before this square had been formed, Mr. Pitcairn and myself went with the sheriff among the crowd, but were unable to find the parties for whom the sheriff held warrants. We had some discussion there with the strikers, and General Pearson, I observed, passed us going up the hill where the Pittsburgh troops seemed to have been formed. After the square had been formed, we gave up our discussion with those people, and Mr. Pitcairn and myself sat down on some plank about the center of the square. General Pearson passed us and made some remarks. I forget his words. He referred to the thing looking serious, that more troops should be had, and said he was going to telegraph General Latta, and left us, starting in the direction of the telegraph office.

Q. What time was that?

A. That was about five o'clock. Mr. Pitcairn and myself were chatting together about the situation, when my attention was called to an attempt made by the company that formed the east side of the square to press the crowd back. They formed with arms across, and tried to push the crowd back, but the mob grasped the muskets of some of them. The troops found they could not make any impression, and then the order was given to charge bayonets.

Q. Who gave that order?

A. I do not know. I simply heard the order given. The troops came to a charge bayonets on the mob. Then I recollect seeing one man—one of the mob with a musket in one hand draw a pistol with the other, and fire, and I saw a man fall—whether he was dodging only or whether he was struck, I do not know. At the same moment one or two other pistol shots were fired, and then a volley of stones and pieces of clinker came from the hill on the sides of the square. A number of the troops were struck down. Several of them fell within two or three feet of me. Then one or two shots were fired from the muskets, and others followed, and a fusillade was kept up for a couple of minutes. Mr. Pitcairn and myself were still sitting there, and I said to him it would be prudent to lie down. We kept close for a moment or two, and as soon as the crowd broke we walked to the north side of the square, and I told a lieutenant there, who was in command of a company, perhaps, that he had better make a right wheel, and drive some people out who had got behind a gondola car loaded with coal there. I believe he acted on my suggestion. At the first firing the crowd had broken and run in every direction. Mr. Pitcairn and myself then returned to his office. There I found General Pearson, and I judged, by his surprise, that I gave him the first intimation he had of the firing. Shortly after Mr. Cassatt came into the room. A few minutes after a gentleman on General Brinton's staff. I think Colonel Wilson came in. He was directed to tell General Brinton to report. General Brinton reported, and, after some consultation, General Brinton suggested a move into the round-house. I think I objected, but to no avail, because, as he said, the mob was driven away and he could go into the round-house and get shelter for his men and give them some rest, and that he could protect the property of the company in case of an attack just as well from the round-house as from the position he then occupied. I said to Mr. Pitcairn that I thought it was a great mistake—that the hill should be occupied; but General Brinton and General Pearson, of course, were the military officers who were in charge of the situation, and for the time the railroad officers had relinquished all control. We remained there some time, and the question of supplies came up—of provision for those men—and Mr. Pitcairn, Mr. Watt, Mr. Cassatt, and myself got on an engine and went to the Union depot, and gave orders for provisions. Those provisions were loaded up and started to the outer depot, and I afterwards understood were captured by the mob. We remained at the Union depot that evening. About ten o'clock a person came and told me I had better leave. I asked for his reason, and he said that the mob were then at Saint Fulvia's church, at Fourteenth and Liberty streets, on their way to the Union depot, and said they were going to hang Mr. Cassatt, Mr. Pitcairn, Mr. Watt, and me. I did not place much reliance on the report, but it was afterwards verified that the mob was there and moving down in that direction. The other three gentlemen went away. I was in a different part of the hotel at the time, and remained there some time, but several friends came to me and urged me to leave. I went out through the front door of the depot, and when I got near the elevator, true enough the mob did come, but I do not know what for. I then got into a carriage and drove to my house.

Q. What time was that?

A. About a quarter after ten o'clock on Saturday night. I locate the time from the fact that after I got to my home, I threw myself on the bed, and my wife came to me and said the fire alarm was striking from box sixty-four. I said it was the outer depot, and it would be a big fire in a few minutes, but I did not want to be disturbed. I looked at my watch, and it was a quarter to eleven. Shortly afterward I was again awakened to come and look at the fire. I saw at once that it was the oil cars. I slept a few minutes, and then went to the stock yards. At Torrens station I met Colonel Guthrie, and there we chatted a while, and then I returned to the city. Probably about seven or eight o'clock, I am not sure about the hour, in walking up the track, I met some of our clerks, and they told me that my office was on fire, and that everything was burned, and there was no use to go up. I went up far enough to see the fire there, which was then extending, and I went then to the west end of the Union depot in the endeavor to get a few men together to throw some cars off the track to block it. I feared they would set fire to cars, and run them down the track to burn the depot. I got a number of men together and left them in charge of it. They succeeded afterwards in throwing some cars off, and blocking all the tracks but two. The reason of my leaving was, that I recollected that the night before, Saturday night, I had been requested by General Latta to remove a lot of ammunition which had been stored in the store-room at the east end of the Union depot—some twenty or thirty thousand rounds, perhaps more. I had gone there the evening before with a few gentlemen, and loaded this ammunition up on baggage hoppers, and stored it away in the cellar. I thought of the ammunition, and knew it was important to be saved. I left the parties at the cars and went to General Latta, and asked if any arrangement had been made to get the ammunition out. He said, "yes," that he had requested Captain Breck to attend to it, and that he was then at it, but he asked me to go and see if I could render him any assistance. I went to Captain Breck, and found he was making some effort in that direction. I offered him my services, but he said that he had all the assistance that he required, except that he had no wagon. I then went to a livery stable right opposite the depot and got a large express wagon and had it brought over, and Captain Breck said he had ample assistance to load the ammunition up and get it out. Shortly after I went to the Monongahela house, to which General Latta's head-quarter's had been removed.

Q. Was that ammunition for the troops?

A. It had been brought out with General Brinton's command.

Q. What time did it arrive?

A. It arrived with the troops that came on Saturday afternoon. It remained in the store-room, into which they put it first, until nine o'clock Saturday night, when those gentlemen and myself loaded it up and took it down into the cellar of the hotel. I went to the Monongahela house. I was anxious to see Mr. Cassatt and Mr. Pitcairn. I found Mr. Cassatt there. Previous to this, information had been received of General Brinton's retiring—that he had gone east, and then we heard he was in the Allegheny cemetery. The question of provisions was uppermost in the mind of everybody for those men, and orders were sent to Allegheny for the different bakers to prepare sandwiches, and get all the provisions ready they could. Mr. Scott, the stock agent at East Liberty, came to the hotel about noon, and said that Colonel Guthrie was anxious about ammunition—that he had but little, and had divided what he had with the Philadelphia troops stopped at Wall's station. I wrote out an order on Captain Breck to give to Mr. Scott what ammunition he wanted, and took it to General Latta, who signed it. I knew Colonel Guthrie's position in regard to ammunition, and in about a quarter of an hour I followed Mr. Scott to the Union depot. I found him, and he said that the party with whom he had come in the buggy to get this ammunition had become demoralized and left, at any rate he could not get the ammunition. I think that was the reason he gave. I walked through the depot, and went to the place where the ammunition was stored, and I found it all remaining there; none of it was removed. I walked on the platform, and found the upper end on fire. I came down and walked through the lower part of the depot, and then up stairs through the hotel. I saw very few people—scarcely anybody. I then returned through the crowd, who were dragging every sort of property away from the robbed cars—got through them, and returned to the Monongahela house. General Latta then expressed an anxiety to form a junction between those troops at Wall's station and General Brinton's command, since ascertained to be in the vicinity of Sharpsburg, and expressed an additional anxiety in regard to the question of provisions. After consultation, I volunteered to do what I could to effect a junction between the two commands. Colonel Guthrie had returned from Torrens station, in citizens dress, to consult with General Latta, as he was unable to make any communication with him because the wires were burned. It was decided that I should take a buggy and communicate between those two detachments, and make what effort I could to get provisions. Mr. Cassatt was to take the north side of the river with a provision wagon, and get through the best he could, and I was to take the south side of the river and get through the best I could. I was to remain at General Brinton's camp until I heard from Mr. Cassatt. An order was also given to Colonel Guthrie to bring his regiment from Torrens station into the city. They thought, perhaps, that that regiment could stop the further burning. That regiment had remained solid and intact through the whole trouble.

Q. What time were these orders given?

A. About three o'clock on Sunday afternoon. I drove, then, first out to Torrens, and left Major Sellers there, and returned to my house, and changed my clothes, and then started for General Brinton's camp. I went across the Sharpsburg bridge, and then returned and took the river road. Being unacquainted with the location of General Brinton's command, I stopped at a hotel on the road, and endeavored to make some inquiries. I was not interfered with. In consequence of some replies I got, I went on to Aetna, and there ascertained the exact locality of General Brinton, and met Mr. Campbell Herron, of the firm of Spang, Chalfant, & Co., of the large works there. I explained to him the state of the troops in regard to food, and asked if he could help me. He sent for his manager, and directed that everything in the company's store should be turned over to my order. I arranged with the manager that provisions should be loaded up as soon as it was dark, and hauled out to the camp. I then went on to Claremont, and found General Brinton in camp at that point. I told General Brinton that I had orders from General Latta to effect a junction, if possible, between his command and the detachment of his division at Wall's station, under the command of Colonel Rogers. After talking the matter over, we concluded we had best bring them across from Walls, by the way of the Fairview ferry. General Brinton was to take a detachment at daylight to the ferry, and seize the boat, and hold it until we appeared on the opposite bank. I waited there, awaiting word from Mr. Cassatt. At ten o'clock a citizen of Allegheny came from Walls with word for me from Mr. Cassatt. I then started for Walls Station, distant some eighteen miles from that point. I returned by way of Sharpsburg bridge. I lost my way and got in Barren valley, but finally got on the right road again, and reached Walls station about two o'clock in the morning. I found some men there, and supposed it was a picket post of the troops, but found instead it was some men there, who, I suppose, were railroad men or miners. After some parleying with them, they permitted me to go to the house of one of the passenger conductors of the road, and from him I ascertained that the troops had gone to Blairsville. While talking to them, this party had taken my horse and buggy, but after some difficulty I got it back again, and returned to Claremont, and got there about six and a half o'clock, in the morning. I then found that the First brigade of General Brinton's division was loaded on cars, and was just then pulling out on the way to Blairsville. They had been instructed during my absence to report there. I remained until they were all loaded up, and then returned to my home, changed my clothes, and returned to the city. On my arrival at home, I was told that my neighbors had held a meeting, and had organized a vigilance committee, and placed me in command, and I spent the day in obtaining arms and ammunition for the committee. I remained on duty with that committee for the next week, patrolling the streets—twenty miles of streets. On Friday morning or Saturday, about sun rise, I was on the picket post at Torrens station, and there met Governor Hartranft and the troops returning to Pittsburgh. I remained on duty with my patrol. The next Sunday morning I was sent for by Mr. Pitcairn. He told me that he expected to commence moving trains that day, and wanted me to get ready. I got a force of clerks together, and we commenced starting trains, and in a few weeks things resumed there normal condition.

Q. Did you endeavour to ascertain whether the outbreak on Thursday was the result of a pre-arranged plan among the railroad employés or not?

A. I made no effort to ascertain that. From observation, I think there was a plan in course of arrangement, but I think the execution of it was premature on their part. I believe they did not strike here intentionally, but that it was precipitated by the crews that first refused to go that morning.

Q. What facts have led you to that conclusions?

A. I know from newspaper reports, and from rumors among the employés, that they were organizing a union of some description, to oppose this reduction. I simply have it from general rumor—from report.

Q. Have you ever succeeded in getting anything from the employés themselves—any statement from them that would lead you to that conclusion?

A. Nothing that I can re-call. I have heard them talking among themselves, saying that they would be organized by and by—some passing remark of that description, but nothing very tangible.

Q. Did this commence prior to the issuing of the order to run double-headers?

A. My impression is that it was started with the reduction in pay—the order for it. The order for double-headers affected only the Pennsylvania railroad, but, that for the reduction in pay was general—affecting all the roads.

Q. Have you succeeded in gathering any facts from the men, or from any reliable source, to show whether or not there was any understanding among the men on Thursday morning, in relation to a general strike?

A. I have not, but from my observation, I should think the thing was not understood at all. It was started by one crew and the others gradually came in.

Q. Can you give us the names of the parties for whom the warrants were issued?

A. I cannot now. It is a matter of record in this court-house. I think they were bench warrants.

Q. What reply did the mayor make to the telegram that was sent calling for fifty more policemen?

A. I do not know of a reply of any description. If there had been any reply made it would have come to Mr. Watts. I signed his name.

Q. Explain to us the condition of the crowd at three o'clock on Sunday afternoon, when the orders were given to form this junction between Brinton's men and Colonel Roger's men—the crowd about the depot, and from that point out to Lawrenceville?

A. I went out on this side of the city. I did not pass up the railroad. At the Union depot, when I was there, there was a crowd of half drunken men and women dragging and hauling away every sort of plunder they could lay their hands on. I saw nobody that claims respectability among the crowd committing any depredation. Of course there were some lookers on.

Q. Was the riot still progressing—was the plundering and burning still going on?

A. It was at its heights. The fire was then at the east end of the shed, at the Union depot, and by the time I crossed the Ewalt street bridge I looked back and saw the elevator in flames. After that it burned all the way down to Seventh avenue. They were still burning and destroying property and carrying things away.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. What kind of property?

A. For instance, I saw a woman dragging a sack of salt, another woman a bag of flour in a wheelbarrow, and a great many others carrying leaf tobacco, and some rolling tierces of lard—railroad goods in general—the products of the west going east.

Q. Was it all railroad property?

A. Yes.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Freight?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Can you tell us whether, at that time, there was any reason to apprehend further destruction of property, not only of the railroad company, but of the city itself?

A. There were certainly such reasons. It looked then as if half the city would be burned.

Q. State whether or not you recognized any of the train men among the crowd assembled at Twenty-eighth street?

A. At what time?

Q. On Saturday, I refer to particularly, but at any time during the progress of the riot?

A. I know of but one man thus far that I have been able to recognize, and I know their faces. For instance, I can generally tell an employé of the road here—in a great many cases. But I do not know them all by name. There are one or two now under indictment that I have not seen since the riot. I expect to recognize one when I am called on to give my testimony.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Do you know of any requisition being made on the mayor of Pittsburgh or the sheriff of the county for a force to protect the company's property prior to the arrival of the military, and if so, did either of them respond to the call made?

A. The only requisition that I know of, to my personal knowledge, was the telegram that I sent myself, that I spoke of before, in which I requested the mayor, in Mr. Watt's name, to send fifty additional policemen at once. From the number of policemen we had that afternoon, I should judge that perhaps eight or ten came. I know of no other requisition of my own knowledge.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You know of no requisition being made on the sheriff, of your own personal knowledge?

A. I do not.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How large was the vigilance committee that was organized—that you were at the head of?

A. There were a number of them. Mine was only one of the number. I had, I should judge, over a hundred men immediately under my command. Some were armed with their own arms.

Q. When was this committee organized?

A. The first meeting was held on Sunday evening. I was absent, but I was informed the following morning that they had held a meeting, and we were under arms that day.

Q. Monday?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were there any other such vigilance committees organized?

A. Yes. One was formed on my right and another on my left, in the East End, and I am told there were others in the city.

By Mr. Means:

Q. You have stated that you were advised to go away for safety?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was it a railroad employé or was it railroad employés, or a citizen or citizens that advised you and Mr. Pitcairn to leave the city?

A. I do not know who advised Mr. Pitcairn. The advice was given to me by myself. I was not with Mr. Pitcairn at the time. To my recollection, I think the notice was given to me by Mr. Elder, the night depot master.

Q. A railroad employé?

A. Yes. Various of my friends and citizens generally, advised me to leave afterwards.

Q. They considered your life in danger, if you remained?

A. Yes. I had notice sent to my house that I had better leave the city. They said they were going to burn the house.

Q. Was the intimation that Mr. Pitcairn's life was in danger along with the rest?

A. Yes; Mr. Pitcairn's, Mr. Watt's, Mr. Cassatt's, and mine.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Was any attempt made to interfere with your property or to burn your house?

A. Nothing.

Q. The mob did not go there?

A. It was too far away.

By Mr. Means:

Q. It was said that they would very likely take your life if you did not go away?

A. Yes.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. Who were the men that interfered with Gerry. Do you know them?

A. I think I do; but I am not prepared to say. One of the men, I think, is still in the criminal court.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. You stated that General Pearson gave orders to keep the hill clear, and to let no one on the tracks. At that time was any one besides the military on the hill side?

A. Nobody except the military—not more than half a dozen. Probably the people living up there were passing up and down; but there was no crowd congregated there at all. I am unable to say to whom the order was given. He was on one side of the tank, and I was on the other. I presume it was some officer in charge; but who it was I cannot say.

Q. The object of the order was to keep the mob of people from congregating on the hill side?

A. Yes; and on the tracks.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. What was the name of the person to whom the order was given to move the ammunition.

A. That was Captain Breck—E. Y. Breck, commander of the Pittsburgh battery.

Q. Can you give the reason why he did not move it?

A. I cannot. I was not present long enough to ascertain.

Q. Could it have been moved at that time without much danger?

A. I think it could. He may have had reasons or difficulties that I know nothing about. He was on the ground all the time, and had a better opportunity of judging than I had.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. What troops were on the hill when General Pearson gave the orders to keep the hillside clear?

A. I am not positive about that, but I think the Fourteenth regiment was on the hill, and the Nineteenth regiment on the track, and the battery was on the flat just above the track.

Joseph McCabe sworn sworn with the uplifted hand:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the Twentieth ward.

Q. State whether you are connected with the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and if so, in what capacity?

A. I am the general yard dispatcher at Pittsburgh.

Q. As such, what are your duties?

A. I make up trains and see that they go out properly.

Q. Were you on duty on the 19th of July last?

A. Yes.

Q. You may go on and give a statement of what occurred, beginning with Thursday morning?

A. On the morning of the 19th of July I was in the western part of the yard. I saw that the train did not move at the proper time, and went to the middle of the yard, at Twenty-sixth street, to ascertain why it did not go. The yard dispatcher there and assistant train master told me that some of the men had refused to go out. I and Mr. Hunter, then yard dispatcher, went to the men and asked them if they would go out, and all that we would go to, said they would not go out on the double-headers.

Q. About how many men did you see?

A. All that we could find. We went into the caboose cars.

Q. All refused to go out on the double-headers?

A. Yes; except the first train. The conductor was willing to go out, but not the crew.

Q. What classes of men refused—conductors and brakemen?

A. Yes; they refused to go, and I went then to get up the yard crews to put on, and brakemen to go in the place of conductors. I got an engine out. We were just going to make a coupling. I had got two crews and brought them up, and I had told a brakeman named W. S. Gerry to couple the engine. He made an effort to do so, and while doing so, they threw at him with pins and links and stones. One of the pins struck him on the side, and he had to run for his life to the Philadelphia fast passenger train, which was standing on the track where he was, and he jumped on it. Had it not been for that they would have been very apt to have caught him.

Q. Who threw those missiles?

A. I cannot say who threw them, but the whole crowd apparently made a rush.

Q. How large was the crowd?

A. Not over twenty.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Were they train men?

A. Yes.

Q. What time was that?

A. It must have been between nine and ten o'clock.

Q. Thursday?

A. Yes.

Q. The crowd was composed of about twenty men?

A. Yes.

Q. Who were those men?

A. Some of them I don't know the names of. Some are up in court, and they are now trying them. One of them is "over the river."

Q. Name as many as you can?

A. One was Andrew Hice; another Alonzo Milliner, and several more of them. I can't just remember their names now.

Q. Were they all railroad employés?

A. As far as I saw, they were at that time.

Q. Men in actual employment at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. Were there any men there at that time who had previously been discharged?

A. None that I know of.

Q. What was the next incident that occurred that came under your observation?

A. The next thing, I went to Twenty-eighth street with Mr. Watt, and tried to get engine seven hundred and eighty-five out—Conductor S. K. Moore.

Q. What time was that?

A. Pretty close to twelve o'clock. I told him to bring his engine out, and he told me that they would not allow him to turn the switch.

Q. Who do you mean by "they?"

A. He said all of them—the crowd. They would not let him turn the switch. Mr. Watt said he would turn it. While he was stooping to turn it, one of them struck him. They arrested him, and after they arrested him I turned the switch and brought the engine out on the track and down the yard, and coupled her to sixteen cars, and sent her to Wilkinsburg with them.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was that the same crowd that had assembled about ten o'clock?

A. Yes; it was Twenty-sixth street, and they went to Twenty-eighth street. The second engine was at Twenty-eighth street. It was the same crowd.

Q. Had it increased in numbers?

A. Yes; in the meantime.

Q. Who were the men that joined them? Were they railroad employés too?

A. I cannot say. Afterwards I went to the west end of the yard with another engine. I had the dispatcher at the west end to get sixteen cars on another track, and I went there with another engine at about the time the Atlantic express should leave the depot. We got that train out, and that was the last.

Q. What time did that train go out?

A. It left Seventeenth street about one-five. I got to Twenty-eighth street before I ought to. The engineers left their engines there at Twenty-sixth street after we had got the trains ready to go. The mob got in front, and the first engineer blew down brakes, and got off. Then the second engineer did the same. The assistant engineer came to me and asked what he was going to do. I said I didn't know. He said he would run that engine if anybody else would. The road foreman came up, and I told him what Mr. Phillips had said, and he got on one engine and Phillips got on another. Then some person hallooed: "If you move that engine we will blow your brains out." Then they did not start. They all went out. There were about sixteen policemen there, but they could not apparently do anything with them.

Q. How many men got in front?

A. Suppose forty or fifty.

Q. Were they all railroad employés?

A. I don't think they were.

Q. Who composed the balance of the crowd?

A. I am not able to say.

Q. What time was that?

A. I can't say that positively, either.

Q. As near as you can tell?

A. Somewhere about twelve o'clock.

Q. Thursday?

A. Yes.

Q. You say that some policemen came up there?

A. About sixteen.

Q. Who was at the head of the police?

A. I can't say who.

Q. Just explain what effort they made to disperse the mob?

A. We got the train ready to start, and five or six of them got on one engine and the same on the other, and the balance of them got on the train. At Twenty-eighth street they arrested McCullough.

Q. Who made the arrest?

A. Four or five of them had hold of him.

Q. Policemen?

A. Yes.

By Senator Torbert:

Q. He was the person that struck Mr. Watt?

A. I suppose so.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Was not any attack made on the crowd by the policemen?

A. They tried to get them away.

Q. How? With their clubs?

A. No. By pushing them with their hands, I suppose.

Q. What was done next?

A. The balance of the day the men could not do anything. The crowd appeared to increase all the time.

Q. Did you have any conversation with those men that refused to go at first to ascertain their reasons for their refusal?

A. I asked what their reason was for not going, and they allowed that they would not run on double-headers.

Q. All gave that as their reason?

A. Yes.

Q. Had you any knowledge before Thursday morning that such a refusal would be made?

A. No; I didn't have the slightest idea until I went up that morning from the west end of the yard.

Q. Did you talk with the men to find out whether there was any prearranged plan to strike that morning?

A. I did not ask them anything about it. They might have had an idea of striking, but I don't think the time was set. That being the morning that the double-headers was to go out, they picked on that morning very suddenly.

Q. When was that order first promulgated or known to the men?

A. I don't remember the date. I think it must have been a few days before that, but I can't say how many.

Q. Had you heard anything said by the men about the order prior to that morning?

A. No. Whatever they did do in the matter, they kept among themselves.

Q. Were you on the ground during the day of Friday?

A. Yes.

Q. Relate to us what occurred. Had double-headers been run before that day on the road?

A. Yes; the Union and National lines were double-headers, and our coal trains were double-headers. Some trains, such as coal trains between Derry—they were running them double for a number of years.

Q. Had you run through freight trains as double-headers before Thursday?

A. Yes; the Union and National lines.

Q. That morning, the order to run double-headers on all freight trains went into effect?

A. Yes.

Q. That required the discharge of a number of men, did it not?

A. I don't know whether they intended to discharge them or suspend them temporarily.

Q. Were any of those men who were suspended or not retained in the employ of the company among that crowd of twenty that you spoke of?

A. Not that I remember of seeing.

Q. That crowd of twenty was composed of men retained in the employ of the company?

A. Principally, but there might have been some others scattered among them.

Q. How are those men paid—the brakemen and conductors—by the hour, or the day, or the month?

A. They are paid by the day.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. What do you mean by the day?

A. In the yard a day of twelve hours constitutes a day—eleven hours—they get paid extra for the meal hour.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. And over hours?

A. In the yard. I simply sent a message again, telling them to await at Rochester, and to send an escort of men down the road to receive me.

Q. To whom did you direct it?

A. To Colonel Carpenter, at Rochester. I expected he would be at Rochester. He was the commanding officer of the troops. When I got to Rochester, I went up and found he had not arrived—that the division had not arrived. I immediately telegraphed for it to move immediately down. I found it was at Greenville, and I gave the direction again to the officer in charge, not specifying any person in particular. In about an hour, after several attempts to get messages or several attempts to get answers, I went again for an answer, and after the instrument fluttering for half a minute, and all communication being suspended for half an hour, I got a message saying that the troops were at dinner, and would move immediately after dinner.

Q. What time was that?

A. Twelve o'clock, on Sunday. In the meantime, I had communication with General Latta. He told me to address him again at Union Depot hotel, and in the next communication to address him at the Monongahela house. Up to three o'clock he remained, I believe, at Union Depot hotel. All the communications I had from him were at the Union Depot hotel. Hearing that the Philadelphia troops had left the round-house and left the city, and fearing for my own ammunition, which the mob around me threatened to burn——

Q. At Rochester?

A. Yes; but which I afterwards saved by going out and stating in a loud voice, that I had thrown it all in the river half an hour ago. I concluded to let the division remain at Greenville, and ordered it to remain there.

Q. What time did you give that order?

A. Probably about half past twelve, as near as I can remember.

Q. On Sunday?

A. Yes.

Q. To whom was it addressed?

A. I forget whether it was addressed to Colonel Carpenter or not. I think it was to the officer in command of the troops there.

Q. Did it reach Colonel Carpenter?

A. Yes; delivered by the agent there. Then I telegraphed to General Latta, that I was going to Greenville. At three o'clock I started for Greenville, but didn't reach there until ten o'clock the next morning, having to go to Ohio. I went to the troops, but I didn't have any communications from General Latta, and fearing that my ammunition would be entirely destroyed at Rochester, I thought it best to try to form the division at some other point, and so I ordered them home. Then I started to meet the Governor, knowing he was coming from Chicago, but not meeting him, I returned immediately to Greenville, and ordered Colonel Carpenter to re-assemble the whole division at Franklin, and by Friday night I had everybody and everything in camp, and in so fair a way, that I was confident I could handle them, and ordered a movement for Saturday morning to Pittsburgh, which no person knew. I had received a communication from the Governor on Saturday night, to know when I would move, which I answered, that he might expect me shortly, at any time. After starting at Franklin, on the way, I received a dispatch from him or from General Latta, who I don't remember, saying he didn't think it was safe for me to come to Pittsburgh with the small amount of ammunition I had. I answered back, I was on the way, and unless I received peremptory orders, I would be in Pittsburgh that night. I came there Saturday night; as soon as I came, the Governor came down—it was raining fearfully—and said he wanted me to open the road on Monday, and for me to select what troops I wanted to use, and that night or the next morning, I selected Colonel Carpenter's regiment for the work, and the Governor sent for me, and said he wanted all the stock trains moved out that day. The stock trains were moved out on Sunday, and the freight trains on Monday, without particular opposition.

Q. Will you give us the time when Colonel Carpenter's regiment reached Greenville?

A. All the regiment didn't reach Greenville. Some of the companies kept back in Meadville. Having only one train, one engine, and one engineer under our control, the officers decided very wisely, as I should have done, to remain there until the division should be concentrated, and then move down together. The whole division was not concentrated at Greenville. There was a company from Ridgway, one from Corry, one company from Union, two companies from Meadville, and there was one company from Clarion county, which was not ordered out, because it was so far away at the time.

Q. The order you sent for Colonel Carpenter to go to Rochester—do you know whether he received that order or not?

A. I didn't send it directly to Colonel Carpenter, for at no time was I certain Colonel Carpenter was there; but to the officer in charge of the troops. I was not certain my adjutant general was there.

Q. The North East company, and the Erie company, and the Conneautville company were at Greenville?

A. If I remember right, the North East company, under Captain Orton; Captains Riddle and Curtiss's company, of Erie; Captain Rupert, of Conneautville; Captain Kreps, of Greenville; Captain Fruit, of Jefferson; Captain Dight, of Pine Grove; and Captain Wright, of Mercer—eight or nine companies.

Q. What day did they assemble at Greenville?

A. They probably got there Sunday morning—possibly some of them Saturday night.

Q. Did Colonel Carpenter, who was in command there, receive your orders to move to Rochester?

A. He received the orders to move to Rochester, because he replied that the men were at dinner, and that as soon as dinner was over they would move.

Q. Did he receive any orders from you before that?

A. No; I don't think I sent him direct orders before that. The orders I sent before were from Chicago to Colonel Clarke to move the division to Rochester.

Q. Then it was three or four o'clock on Sunday afternoon when you sent the order to him to form?

A. No; about twelve and a half o'clock.

Q. Then he had no time to start?

A. No; they were about starting out the depot when I got my order not to start.

Q. Did you approve of his course in remaining at Greenville?

A. I did. Captain Riddle wanted to move down right away with all the men they had, but some of the rest didn't want to go, and Colonel Carpenter said to me that he had got into somewhat of a trouble about moving, and asked if I approved of his action, and I said perfectly—I didn't expect the division to move until it was in shape to take care of itself, and I entirely approve of your course. I went to Riddle, and called him to one side, and said this thing has gone further than I expected, and I don't want any more trouble. I didn't want the division to move down without being strong enough, although we had men enough I am confident, if we had ammunition, to wipe the whole city of Pittsburgh right out.

Q. Would it have been proper for him, with the nine companies he had, in case they were there early on Sunday morning, at Greenville—would it have been proper for him, as a military officer, to have gone on with them to Rochester?

A. No. If the division had got into a fight, he would have been the officer to handle the division, if I was not present. He never got the orders from me until I ordered him at twelve o'clock, and then I had reason to believe he was going to move immediately. The troops had been in Greenville for a day, and they were scattered around, and visiting in saloons and hotels. The men had to support themselves the best they could, and they could not keep them together, even by companies.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How do the brakemen get paid, and the conductors?

A. They get paid by the trip.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. In case they are delayed on the trip, are the men not paid extra for the time they are delayed?

A. Generally, when they are delayed any ways long, the conductor refers his case to the train master, and if he approves of it, they get paid extra.

Q. Did the men retained in the employ of the company and the discharged men have any communication with each other on the morning of Thursday, that you know of?

A. Not that I have any knowledge of.

Q. Did they not have a secret organization?

A. I believe they have an order called the Train Men's Union.

Q. Do you know the object of that organization?

A. No; I do not.

Q. Do you know whether those twenty men assembled there were members of that organization or not?

A. I don't know. I have an idea that they were.

Q. Were there any double-headers that succeeded in starting that morning of Thursday?

A. No; not from Pittsburgh.

Q. What time was the first train regularly to start?

A. Eight-forty.

Q. Can you tell us whether between the hour of twelve, midnight, and eight-forty, any double-headers left on Thursday morning.

A. The four o'clock trains went out double.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How many went out at four o'clock?

A. All, I believe.

Q. Were you on the ground on Friday?

A. Yes; I was around there.

Q. How was the crowd on Friday morning?

A. It appeared to increase all the time.

Q. How large was it on Friday morning?

A. I can't exactly say how large. They were coming and going all the time.

Q. Give us an estimate?

A. In the neighborhood of a couple of thousand.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were they noisy?

A. Some of them were and some of them were not.

Q. Were they making threats?

A. I just occasionally heard them making threats.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How had it been there during the night?

A. Some of them were there all night stopping everything, so that we could not get along. The engines would stop.

Q. Were they noisy and boisterous?

A. The western engines coming up with the live stock were stopped and sent back on the same track.

Q. Was the crowd on Friday morning composed of the same men as on Thursday—were the same men leading the crowd?

A. I cannot say whether they were leading it or not; the crowd was so big they were all mixed up through it.

Q. Did you see any of the same men in the crowd on Friday?

A. I don't remember that I did. Some of the leaders of the crowd there on Thursday night had gone to Lawrenceville on Friday.

Q. Did you have any conversation with the train men on Friday about starting the trains.

A. No.

Q. Did you try to raise any crew on Friday?

A. We had a yard crew still there and two or three crews already to go out, provided they would let them go.

Q. Were you able to take any trains out on Friday, or if not, what hindered them from going out?

A. The mob at Twenty-eighth street——

Q. Were you able to take any trains out on Friday?

A. No; on account of the crowd at Twenty-eighth street making threats to the men—what they would do.

Q. State the condition of the crowd during the day, whether it was increasing or not, and whether it was demonstrative and boisterous or not?

A. Later in the day it appeared to increase.

Q. Did they allow the passenger cars to pass?

A. They allowed them to go. Some of them were stopped, but they let them pass afterwards.

Q. What means did they take to stop those trains?

A. Some of them would halloo and make threats, and others would get up and spring on the engines, and the engineers would have to stop to see what was the matter.

Q. Did they turn any of the switches?

A. Not that I remember of.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. They just piled on the trains?

A. Yes; they filled the engines and cars.

Q. Did they attempt any violence on the men running the trains during the day of Friday by throwing stones or clubs?

A. Not there, they didn't.

Q. Did they anywhere along the road?

A. I don't know whether they did outside of Pittsburgh or not. We didn't move anything on Friday except live stock. They agreed that we might move that, but nothing else.

Q. You say the live stock was moved?

A. Yes; on Friday. First in the morning—then they stopped it. Then Mr. Garrett, the train master, and me went up and saw them, and he talked to them. There was a big run of stock coming off the Fort Wayne road, and some of them said they would let him have one engine to haul it. He said that they ought to know better, that one engine was not sufficient, and they agreed to let him have two. So we got engines enough to move the stock to East Liberty.

Q. They said you could have one engine. Who was it that told this to Mr. Garrett?

A. I don't know who it was.

Q. Did you hear the conversation between the men and Mr. Garrett?

A. I was with him in the crowd. We had to go right into it like a wedge.

Q. Were they railroad men?

A. Some of them were railroad men.

Q. Men then in the employ of the company, or who had been up to the morning of Thursday?

A. Yes; they were still in the employ of the company, so far as I know.

Q. They were the spokesmen for the crowd, were they?

A. One of them was the spokesmen. We asked for the spokesman when we went there.

Q. Who was that man?

A. I don't remember now who he was.

Q. An engineer, conductor, or brakeman?

A. I think he was a brakeman.

Q. What is Mr. Garrett's first name?

A. His name is David Garrett.

By Mr. Means:

Q. At Twenty-eighth street, did the mob of men stop the train going east?

A. They stopped everything.

Q. Who did that?

A. I don't know whether it was by employés or others.

Q. They prevented the engines from connecting with your stock trains?

A. Yes; sometimes they told the engineers to go on back.

Q. They sent the engines back?

A. Yes; they were sent right back on going out the track, and sent in again on coming out the track.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Describe the crowd during Friday night?

A. I was not there during that night.

Q. Were you there during Saturday morning?

A. Yes.

Q. Describe things then?

A. Early in the morning there was not such a very large crowd, but towards evening, just before the soldiers came up——

Q. How large was it in the morning early?

A. I don't suppose there were over two hundred people.

Q. What time was that?

A. About seven o'clock—that is outside of the soldiers. The Fourteenth and Eighteenth regiments were there then, I believe. In the evening along about five o'clock, at the time the firing began, in the neighborhood of the railroad, and in the streets there were from five to seven thousand people.

Q. Who composed that crowd then—what class of men?

A. They appeared to be all classes.

Q. Railroad employés?

A. Railroad and mill men, and I guess a few of every kind.

Q. When you refer to the crowd of five thousand, do you mean to say that all of that crowd were riotous or engaged in riotous conduct?

A. I don't mean to say that.

Q. You say that a portion of them were lookers-on?

A. Yes.

Q. How many were actually engaged in the riot at that time?

A. I cannot say. They were scattered around here and there and everywhere.

Q. Was there any division or separation between the rioters and the crowd that was looking on?

A. I guess they were scattered through the crowd everywhere around the railroad.

Q. Down on the railroad were any persons looking on—were they along the railroad track, or were they back on the hill?

A. They were standing on the hill and on the railroad track, too. Some of them might be railroad men of other roads, and I never know it.

Q. Were there any women and children mixed up with the crowd?

A. There were some on the street and hill-side.

Q. That crowd had been accumulating all day I suppose?

A. Yes.

Q. How was it in regard to any boisterous or noisy demonstrations?

A. I would say that some of them were pretty boisterous. Some of them would be about half tight, and were raising a little excitement here and among themselves.

Q. When did the crowd begin to get demonstrative or boisterous, at what time in the day?

A. Along about twelve o'clock probably, and about five it got worse. The work shops and all the mills, as a general thing, shut down about three o'clock on Saturday. I suppose that helped to increase the crowd.

Q. Were you among the crowd during Saturday night?

A. No.

Q. Were you present at Twenty-eighth street when the firing of the soldiers took place?

A. I was between Twenty-sixth and Twenty-eighth streets when they began to shoot—about half way.

Q. You were in sight so that you could see?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you hear any orders given to fire?

A. No; I was not near enough to hear, but I saw one or two missiles thrown from the hillside and the shooting began after that.

Q. By whom were the missiles thrown?

A. I cannot say that; they came from the thick part of the crowd on the hillside.

Q. Was there any firing before the missiles were thrown?

A. I don't remember; it was a little after.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did it appear to be pistol shots or musketry?

A. I cannot tell.

Q. Were any shots fired from the hill?

A. I cannot tell whether they came from the hill or from the soldiers. There were some scattering shots, and then a kind of general volley.

Q. Were those shots pistol shots or musket shots?

A. I cannot tell.

Q. What effect did the firing have upon the crowd?

A. It appeared to drive them back for a while.

Q. Which way did they go?

A. They scattered in all directions—some went north, south, east, and west—in every direction—the best way they could get out.

Q. Did it clear the track?

A. It cleared the track for a while.

Q. For what distance?

A. Near down to Twenty-eighth street—that is about the only place that was obstructed.

Q. When did the mob begin to reassemble after that?

A. It took place somewhere along about six o'clock, I suppose. I was not there.

Q. When were you there next?

A. Sunday morning when I came in everything was on fire—was burning—seven and a half o'clock.

Q. How far?

A. To Twenty-eighth street.

Q. From what point?

A. What we call the south yard—the tracks south of the main track between Lawrenceville and Twenty-eighth street—they were burning, and they were burning the upper round-house then. I was along on the hill side, within sight of the track, from seven and a half that morning until eight o'clock that night.

Q. Where were the soldiers or troops?

A. They had left there then, and went into the work-house, I believe. They left the round-house between five and six o'clock in the morning.

Q. What took place during the day of Sunday—how large was the crowd Sunday morning?

A. The crowd that was burning?

Q. Engaged in actual riotous conduct?

A. There were these right in the yard—there appeared to be somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand people. I cannot tell whether they all belonged to the crowd or not. They appeared to be following after it—breaking the cars open and taking out what they wanted, and then setting fire to them.

Q. Who was breaking open the cars?

A. I cannot tell who they were.

Q. Did you go to see?

A. I didn't go near enough to recognize any of them.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. From their appearance could you form any idea as to whether they were railroad men or not?

A. I could not tell.

Q. Was there nothing to distinguish them?

A. No.

Q. Who was engaged in firing the cars at that time?

A. I cannot tell that.

Q. Were they setting the cars on fire with torches and fire brands?

A. Yes. Wherever there was a gap they would carry the fire over the gap to the next place.

Q. Did you make any effort to see who those men were?

A. I could not tell who they were.

By Mr. Larrabee:

Q. What kind of men were they?

A. They were rough looking men.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. How near did you go?

A. I was a hundred feet or so from them. I heard that detectives were there. Some of them told me, in fact, that they understood detectives were among them watching them.

Q. Did you see any of your men among the crowd on Sunday morning?

A. No; I did not.

Adjourned to meet at three o'clock, P.M.

SAME DAY.

Orphan's Court Room, Pittsburgh, Friday, February 8, 1878—3 P.M.

Pursuant to adjournment, the committee re-assembled at three, P.M., this day, and continued the taking of testimony.

The first witness examined was

William Ryan, sworn with uplifted hand:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Where do you reside?

A. In the Fifteenth ward of the city of Pittsburgh.

Q. Are you in the employ of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company?

A. Yes.

Q. How long have you been in their employ, and in what capacity?

A. I cannot state the precise date when I entered the service of the company; but I judge it is between eight and ten years.

Q. In what capacity were you employed in July last?

A. As freight conductor.

Q. Between what points?

A. Pittsburgh and Derry, or between Pittsburgh and Conemaugh.

Q. You were a conductor on trains that ran double-headers?

A. Yes.

Q. How long have you been running on trains that run in that way?

A. I cannot tell the length of time precisely, but I was running them from the time they started—that is, from the time they started to run through freight as double.

Q. About how long?

A. I cannot tell.

Q. Two or three years?

A. I hardly fancy it could be that long. I should say a year.

Q. Were you at the depot or about the depot on the morning of the 19th—Thursday morning?

A. Yes.

Q. Was that your morning for going out as conductor of the train?

A. It was my train that should have started out. It was my morning.

Q. What was your time for going out?

A. If I recollect right, it was eight-forty.