REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE THE Railroad Riots IN JULY, 1877. (continued 23)

A. L. Pearson, Major General.

To which I replied, as follows.

Mifflin, July 20, 1877—5.45, P.M.

General A. L. Pearson, Pittsburgh:

Your dispatch received. You say Cassatt suggests that another regiment be held under arms. Do you ask that the order be issued?

James W. Latta, Adjutant General.

Then immediately after that I got one from Pearson which opened up the whole situation, and was acted on. That dispatch is on the same page, and reads as follows:

Pittsburgh, July 20, 1877—6.35, P.M.

Major General James W. Latta, (Fast Line west:)

After every exertion on the part of myself and staff, since four o'clock this A.M., I have but two hundred and thirty men on hand. There are not less than four or five thousand strikers, and increasing in large numbers hourly. The sympathy of the various companies is with them, and I have no hesitation in saying, that to avert bloodshed, we should have not less than two thousand troops. While I can scatter the crowd, it will be only for the time being, and at fearful loss of life. I suggest that two thousand men be sent to-night.

A. L. Pearson, Major General.

Q. What hour is that dispatch dated?

A. That dispatch is dated six-thirty-five, P.M., Pittsburgh, July 20, 1877, and I got it at McVeytown tower, east of Huntingdon. I immediately ordered the divisions of Generals Brinton, Gallagher, Huidekoper, and White, and the Fifth regiment of General Beaver's division under arms, and advised General Pearson of this by telegram. In view of this fact of sympathetic tendencies on the part of the strikers with the rioters, after I got Pearson's dispatch, in another answer to Colonel Scott, I said I didn't deem it advisable to take any action with the troops just then, until we found out exactly how the troops felt. If the troops were going to be in this condition all over the State, we better study a little before making further movements, and I telegraphed Brinton a private and confidential dispatch, inquiring what the sentiment was there. He telegraphed back, assuring me his people were right, and I might use them on any emergency whatever. Immediately after that I put Brinton in the field, and ordered him to move the whole division to Pittsburgh. I directed Brinton to supply himself with ammunition, such as he had in Philadelphia. I had forty-five thousand rounds prepared for him, and handed to him as he passed through, with instructions to issue it to his troops, not less than ten rounds a man, before they went any further, and I also put in his charge two Gatling guns, which we had at the Harrisburg arsenal, leaving their heavy guns behind them. I pursued my individual movement to Pittsburgh, and, I think I got there some time about one or two o'clock in the morning of Saturday. I do not recollect exactly the time. I found excitement, and things conditioned during the night as I supposed I would find them, from what reports I had. Found these two regiments, the Fourteenth and the Nineteenth, partially gotten together in cars. Pearson was about to execute a movement to carry them out by some strategic plan, about daylight, to Twenty-eighth street, and there hold the crossing with these two regiments and a battery, the object being entirely to avoid bloodshed, that being the tenor of all the dispatches I received. From what I could learn, I thought the movement of that battery and the necessity for two thousand men was rather an unwise one, and I advised against it; but the battery was taken out, and the measure was successfully accomplished. I discovered, much to my surprise, that public sentiment and the press were in pretty strong sympathy and accord with the people who were defying the law. No sheriff, no mayor, that I saw at all. Matters went on until two o'clock, I think, without any change worthy of comment, when Brinton arrived with about six hundred and fifty men. I then asked Pearson distinctly whether he was satisfied, or had enough troops to master the situation, and he said he was satisfied with them, and the movement commenced. I remained at the Union Depot hotel, to say nothing of the transaction at Twenty-fifth street. The firing was first announced to me in a dispatch, which was given in my report. It might be stated, in this connection, that the whole forty-five rounds of ammunition were brought to Pittsburgh, and it was a pretty serious embarrassment in future operations. These facts are all set forth in my report, and the troops were supplied with twenty rounds per man, and the guns with two thousand rounds each—the Gatling.

Q. Before they started from the Union depot?

A. Before they started from the Union depot. We had a vast amount of it lying there. If we had only got it issued, it might have made some change in circumstances. The dispatch announcing the fire, I received at the Union depot, five-twenty P.M.

Q. What page is that on?

A. Page 5.

Outer Depot, July 21, 1817—5.25, P.M.

Major General Latta, Union Depot:

Send for Huidekoper's, Gallagher's, Beaver's, and White's, divisions. The location of the ground is such that it is almost impossible to handle troops. The troops have just fired into the crowd, and I am informed a number are killed. I am satisfied no trains can be sent out to-night. The appearance of affairs is desperate.

A. L. Pearson, Major General

The object of the movement, was, of course, to open the road, and Mr. Pitcairn told me shortly before the movement commenced, in reply to an interrogatory, that he had fifteen crews ready to carry out trains.

Q. Ready to take out trains?

A. Yes, sir. I never knew the reason why the trains did not run until I read General Brinton's report, which was some ten months afterward. I inquired from a gentleman connected with the railroad company why the trains did not move that day when the tracks were open, ready for them to move, about an hour after the fire occurred, and he told me the reason was that General Pearson said it would not do; but upon referring to General Brinton's report, I found that an offer had been made by the troops to guard the trains, and the railroad people said, we have not got the men to move the trains, and the trains, consequently, could not move. The road was open. The soldiers had discharged their duty, and opened the road.

Q. How long was it kept open?

A. I do not know, but I presume some couple of hours, from all I learn from the official reports, before they withdrew from this position to the round-house.

Q. What time was it that Mr. Pitcairn stated to you that he had fifteen crews to move trains?

A. I should think it was about—just a little while before Brinton came in, with his troops, and he got there at two o'clock. I saw him in the hallway of the hotel, standing about ten or fifteen feet from the desk of the Union Depot hotel clerk's office. I think Pearson stood beside me. I am not so sure of that, though.

Q. Did you have any consultation with General Pearson or railroad men about the propriety of undertaking to start trains that evening—that afternoon?

A. I have no distinct recollection of any consultation with him.

Q. Do you remember of any citizens calling at the office of the Union Depot hotel, and advising against moving the trains that afternoon?

A. No citizens called on me with such advice.

Q. Did any of the civil authorities?

A. I never saw any civil authorities of the city of Pittsburgh, except the mayor, for about ten or twelve minutes, and then I sent for him to come, during all the time I was there.

Q. When did you send for him?

A. About midnight, on Saturday. He met Colonel Quay, and I think the first word he said—I think he said: "If Hartranft had been here the troops would not have been ordered out. Why didn't you do like you did before—telegraph him, and then there would not have been any trouble." I said to him: "I think that if you get out there you can stop this thing now." He said it was beyond his power, and he made some remark I did not like very well, and I turned on my heel, and left him in consultation with Colonel Quay.

Q. Can you remember that remark?

A. No, sir.

Q. The substance of it?

A. No; not well enough to testify to under oath. Colonel Quay and he kept up some considerable conversation.

Q. Was Colonel Quay present when that remark was made?

A. He was; yes, sir.

Q. Where was he?

A. Our room was at the head of the stairs, on the second floor—the first floor—I suppose the hotel would call it the first floor of the Union Depot hotel. This room faces right opposite the stairs. Quay and McCarthy were sitting on a kind of a bench there, and I was standing up. Matters went on. I don't recollect when I first learned that the troops were in the round-house. Oh, yes! here is the dispatch, on page 5, addressed from Pearson to me:

Outer Depot, July 21, 1877.

Major General James W. Latta, Union Depot:

Brinton reports about fifteen killed and wounded, and child of ten years. The rioters numbered not less than ten thousand, and completely surrounded the troops, and fired the first shots. It is reported that the United States arsenal will be attacked, and arms and ammunition captured. Have notified the commandant of the fact. The rioters contemplate burning the railroad buildings, and I have ordered all my troops inside the walls of the buildings, and will protect at all hazards.

A. L. Pearson, Major General.

Q. What time did you receive that dispatch?

A. That dispatch must have been received about dark, or shortly afterward. I see it is without hour. Then I placed myself in communication with him. There are two dispatches here. I started a messenger boy off to the arsenal. It appears that Pearson had been in communication with them to advise the officers of the fact of what trouble there was. I was getting replies and sending messages back from these troops. They were on their way … of them without ammunition, and some of them had been unable to get out of there, and wanted to know whether they should use force, and they finally did get out and go to the lower end of Pittsburgh by the next morning.

Q. What time did Pearson reach you at the Union depot that evening?

A. I have reported it at ten o'clock, and I think that hour is about right.

Q. What was that report, then, as near as you state it?

A. He came in with four of his staff, and I was rather astonished at seeing him. The mob had got pretty thick, and I had learned through the entire afternoon that no soldier could appear upon the highway with any safety, unless he had troops with him. A rope, I learned, was put around the neck of General Brinton's staff officers, and he was threatened with assassination and all sorts of things; but there is no question about the fact, unless a soldier was willing to give up his gun, he had no business out among them. Pearson managed to get down unobserved. The cars were four lines deep—were all down to the round-house—and I suppose he got through them. He said he managed to get down there in that way. I told him I was very much surprised to see him there, and he said the object of his visit was ammunition and rations for the troops—they were almost entirely out, and I told him the situation—whether he understood it fully I do not know—it was impossible for him to get back. I thought his usefulness was about ended. He got there, and he could not return again. I told him to go somewhere else, and report to me at daylight. He went to the house of one of the staff officers, somewhere on the outskirts of the town—Richard Evans. Daylight came, and he could not go through, I suppose, if he had tried. I heard nothing further from him until about one o'clock. One of his staff officers brought a note from him at the Monongahela house. He offered to do any duty he could. He said if he came on the street he was satisfied his life would not be his own for a moment; and I did not see anything for anybody to do just then, and I told him I could see nothing to be answered by his coming out at that time, and he might as well remain where he was.

Q. General Pearson was in command of the troops, then, until ten o'clock?

A. O, yes. I must say something else. He was in command up to ten o'clock. Before I told Pearson to go away, I asked him four or five times very distinctly, and put the interrogatory as strong as I could, to know whether he had left General Brinton in absolute command, and he said that he had—that Brinton was the commanding officer, and I have since letters from General Brinton, in which he has assumed that he was in command of those troops.

Q. After General Pearson left, then General Brinton was the commanding officer?

A. He was the commanding officer.

Q. Had entire charge. Did you have any communication with General Brinton?

A. When Pearson left, no fire had broken out. Pearson rather charges disaster on me in his report. The burning did not occur until after he went home. After Pearson left, Mr. Farr and Colonel Norris, Mr. Linn, and Cassatt and Phillips were active and energetic in getting provisions out—trying at least. Having got an engine fired up, they backed it into the Union depot, and I think they got coffee and sandwiches—a tremendous amount of provisions carried out to where the engine was. An engineer had agreed to push it out, and everything was ready for the movement, when the engineer reported that the fire had gotten between the round-house and the Union depot, and he could not go. The cars were burned, and he could not run his engine past them, and the consequence was that the scheme was abandoned. About that time, a man disguised as a working man, at great personal risk and the exercise of a vast deal of tact, presented himself to my room at the hotel. He told me where he had come from, and brought a dispatch from General Brinton. At that time, I suppose, the fire had got pretty well ahead, and it was rather of a demoralizing character. I had had it in mind, if it was possible, to get a communication to Brinton, and propose some plan to get out of the round-house, and clean that mob out; but I desisted from that when I read that dispatch. I unfortunately have lost it, but I recollect I stood up and read it out in the room, and I recollect I said—that subject of ordering the troops out had been discussed—I said I will assume no responsibility of ordering the troops to fight, when a report like that comes from them, and it left me under the impression that the whole thing was gone up. I recollect, I walked up and down the room that night, and I thought every friend I had would be burned to death by morning. I had no idea they would ever get out, and I devoted my entire energies to their relief. I had been the associate of the First regiment since my early boyhood days, and that dispatch left me and everybody else with that idea. I sat down and answered, in the nature of one which appears upon page 7, of that report, and sent it back by this same man. At that time the mob had got to be so serious, that I did not deem it wisdom to order any troops into the city of Pittsburgh without ammunition. The troops of Colonel Rodgers, which was part of the First division, and which should have been supplied with ammunition, were then about somewhere at Walls station. At the time Pearson came in to me, communications stopped with the round-house—wires were cut. We had one Western Union wire running to different points, and that was the only one we could get hold of. None, however, to the round-house. I sent word to this detachment at Walls, and to the detachments on their way, not to come within ten miles of the city, until they got ammunition. Then I sent this dispatch back to General Brinton:

Major General R. M. Brinton, round-house:

I know your situation fully. Regret that you are so placed, but knowing your high soldierly qualities, know that you will hold out to the last. It would be sad to sacrifice life, as you would have to, in case of a persistent attack, but if it comes, it consequently must follow. Every one has been untiring in efforts to get rations and ammunition to you, and, in every instance, it has failed. Cassatt and Philips, of the railroad, Baugh, of your staff, Norris, Farr, and Linn, volunteers, are now making every effort to again shortly reach you. No chance for friction primers.

Have again made every effort to reach you, but failed on account of the fire. The rest of Philadelphia troops are at Walls station, twelve miles east, and there remain awaiting ammunition. I am starting private conveyance to Torrens, with ammunition to Guthrie, in large enough quantities to supply himself and the troops now at Walls. When I hear of its safe arrival, I will order them forward to Guthrie, to report to him, directing him to move to your relief, with the whole command. His march will be about five miles, and, if all things prove successful, he ought to reach you by five or six o'clock. If compelled to escape at last, do so to the eastward; take Penn avenue, if possible, and make for Guthrie, at Torrens.

James W. Latta, Adjutant General.

These instructions were not followed; but a different and another route was taken. I had inquired from the people of Harrisburg where the best place was to feed troops at that time in that large body. I was told by those who seemed to know that one of those large hotels at East Liberty could accommodate five or six hundred men, and I had made this direction to go to East Liberty to get the men fed. Men dragged out from their homes, and kept up two nights, cannot exist like the old and heavier campaigner can, who have become inured to privations.

Q. In giving these orders in your communication to General Brinton, and in the orders you gave to Colonel Guthrie and Colonel Rodgers, were you assuming command of the troops, or in what capacity?

A. I was assuming command, so far as that was concerned. I could not assume, as Adjutant General, the command of any troops, unless I relieve the officer commanding, and that would be a very delicate thing to do in the situation we were in. For the purpose of concentration, and for the purpose of a movement, I was acting as commander-in-chief, and for the purpose of giving general directions.

Q. You had plenty of ammunition at the Union depot?

A. Plenty of ammunition.

Q. Could you not, have ordered Colonel Guthrie to have marched down Fifth street by a circuitous route, and brought him to the Union depot at night?

A. He said he hadn't forces enough.

Q. There was no force on Fifth street, was there—running out Fifth avenue?

A. I suppose I could have done all these things, but I didn't conceive, in view of the reports I had, that it was wise to undertake, and my views were fully confirmed by the dispatches that came from Guthrie himself, after I had ordered the movement, because he wired me as follows—after I got him an order for the concentration he wants to know—a Pittsburgher inquired of me what route he shall take.

Q. Did Colonel Guthrie have any ammunition?

A. O, yes; he had some seven to ten rounds, I believe—I know he had some ammunition.

Q. How many rounds did General Brinton have with him in the round-house?

A. I reported twenty—that is my belief.

Q. At the time you sent this communication, on page 7, with the message to General Brinton, could you not have ordered him out of the round-house, and could he not have marched, at that time, down to the Union depot?

A. I cannot answer whether he could have marched down. I could have ordered him to do so.

Q. What is your opinion about his having been able to march down to Union depot, and cut his way to Union depot at that time?

A. I do not think at that time it would have been a wise movement in the night.

Q. A fire had already broken out?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know that Brinton had received that communication?

A. 0, yes; Brinton got that.

Q. Was that discussed, or did that occur to you at the time to order him down to the Union depot?

A. Yes; I have just stated I intended to order him out. I do not mean to say at that particular time, but I intended to suggest, when I got this dispatch, and then I would not assume the responsibility of ordering troops out that were described to be in that condition.

Q. Have you that dispatch?

A. That is lost.

Q. Can you state the nature of it—the contents of it?

A. I do not want to say one thing that is in it. The contents of it were, as I have stated, general demoralization.

Q. Of his troops?

A. I do not mean to say his troops. The impression made by the dispatch was one that created upon the mind of anybody who read it—and there was no use attempt to fight just then with the troops. That was an impression left upon my mind, and upon the minds of those who heard me read it.

Q. Is that dispatch lost?

A. That dispatch is lost.

Q. Who was present and heard that dispatch read?

A. Colonel Farr, Colonel Quay, Colonel Hassinger, and Mr. Russell.

Q. What time was that received?

A. About midnight.

Q. Did General Pearson consult you after the track had been cleared, and after the collision, at about five o'clock—did he consult you as to the disposition of the troops?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you know they were going to be placed in the round-house?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you know where the Fourteenth and the Nineteenth regiments were, commanded by Colonel Gray and Colonel Howard?

A. I knew where they had been sent to in the morning.

Q. Do you know where they were in the evening?

A. I made up my mind they had all disappeared. I must not use that phrase any more, because one of the military newspapers says it is a peculiar one to use—that troops disappear.

Q. Did you know they were ordered in the transfer depot?

A. No, sir; but somebody came in, and told me they were all gone.

Q. Do you know when they were disbanded by order of General Brown?

A. The first I knew of that was, I saw Brown two or three times during the night in citizens' clothes, and toward the early morning, but I had heard all along his troops had gone. The old gentleman was pretty well excited. He was going out and making promises, and coming back, and having interviews, and getting in among the fellows. The next day, Cap. Bigham, he was a pretty strong man, was in the room at the hotel, between nine and ten o'clock, and I said something pretty rough to Bigham, about the troops running away, and Bigham, like a good soldier, would … that he had done what he was told; he said these troops left there by order of General Brown.

Q. That was the first you knew of General Brown's order?

A. That is the first I ever heard.

Q. After General Pearson left, then General Brinton was the commanding officer, as I understand, and you learned that fact by and through General Pearson?

A. By and through General Pearson.

Q. That he had left him in command?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did General Brinton know that the ammunition was at the Union depot?

A. O, yes.

Q. He knew it had been left there?

A. You know he kept sending for us to send it out to him. He left the ammunition under the guard of a detachment of cavalry. They had sabers way up at the lower end of the depot. My recollection is, when things got pretty hot, these men were no earthly account round with their sabers, and I believe a captain and some men of the Fourteenth were standing around there, too. They never reported to me for any special purpose. I sent those gentlemen out. I know I sent some of them out, for they succeeded in getting out, some from this exposed place, down to the cellar of the hotel.

Q. Was Cassatt and Pitcairn out at Twentieth street, at the time of the collision?

A. I am told they were.

Q. Did you have conversation with them after they returned?

A. I had a conversation with one of them.

Q. Did you ask them whether trains had been moved?

A. Yes; and they made answer just as I have stated. Said General Pearson told them not to move—they said General Pearson told them not to move.

Q. And did you have any conversation with General Pearson on the subject, when he came in?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you have any consultation before the troops started with the civil authorities?

A. I never saw them.

Q. You don't know what arrangements—as I understand it, the sheriff marched with a posse in front of the troops?

A. I have been told so. I never saw the sheriff but once in my life, and that was two or three weeks afterwards.

Q. Were your instructions to the commanders to keep themselves subordinate to the civil authorities?

A. I have just read my original dispatches—aiding the civil authorities.

Q. When General Pearson left, at ten o'clock, you did practically relieve him from command?

A. Yes. Of course, it was a virtual relief, as explained in that way.

Q. He first asked you whether he had left General Brinton in command?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, did you consider you had power to order the movements of General Brinton, after General Pearson had left?

A. I did; for purposes such as that.

Q. And also of Colonel Guthrie?

A. I did; yes, sir.

Q. And Colonel Rodgers and the troops in that vicinity?

A. Yes, sir. You will observe I did not give Brinton any particular order.

Q. That power you had by virtue of the instructions that the commander-in-chief had given you before he left?

A. I took it I had that power generally in the comprehensive duties of Adjutant General. The conclusion of this dispatch to Brinton is not in the shape of an order. It tells him what to do. Brinton thought he could have done better, he could have gone somewhere else, and when a man don't follow such instructions as that he takes a great deal of risk, just as a man who refuses to obey the order of an adjutant, if the Adjutant General is sustained by his chief, he is going to get a pretty good dressing; if not, he is all right.

Q. General Brinton could have obeyed your instructions or disobeyed them?

A. I am simply applying that remark to the conclusion of this letter, which reads: "If compelled to escape, at least do so to the eastward. Take Penn avenue, if possible, and make for Guthrie, at Torrens." Brinton could have taken that direction, or taken some other one if he thought he could do better by taking some other. When he didn't take the direction I gave him, he assumed a responsibility.

Q. Afterwards, you ordered him to join Guthrie, at Torrens?

A. I did; yes. He had got too far then. After this order went out, they succeeded in getting ammunition to Guthrie. I had ordered a train from Walls by telegraph. The reply I got from Walls was, that the "engineers won't run the trains. I can't move them." Then I ordered the wagon.

Q. Did you see the sheriff after you arrived at Pittsburgh, or the Union depot, before the troops were sent to Twenty-eighth street?

A. I never saw the sheriff nor the mayor until I sent for him.

Q. Did you ask General Pearson whether he had a consultation with the sheriff or the mayor?

A. I did not ask him anything about the mayor, but I had dispatches from Pearson in which he said he had been with the sheriff.

Q. You saw no citizens on Saturday night, I understand you to say?

A. Saturday night—I don't recollect. I think Mr. Rook came in the room for a few moments on Saturday afternoon. Mr. Hampden was in the room.

Q. Who is the solicitor?

A. There was a good many railroad men around there, but outside of the railroad men I have no distinct recollection of any one but Rook.

Q. Did you see James Park, junior, Saturday evening?

A. I don't know such a name. I might know him if I would see him.

Q. He had no conversation with Mr. Cassatt in your presence, that you recollect of?

A. No, sir; nor nobody had any conversation with Mr. Cassatt in my presence during the evening. I didn't see Mr. Cassatt more than a few moments.

Q. On Saturday afternoon, did you see these gentlemen?

A. I don't know—I don't think I did. I might have seen him. If I saw this gentleman I could tell better. I don't know the name.

Q. Did any citizens speak to you or to Cassatt, in your presence, in regard to any meeting any time to move trains on Saturday?

A. No, sir; nobody. I heard it talked of, but nobody ever came to me. It was talked of in our room between us.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. It was talked of in the room?

A. Between ourselves.

Q. Was this before the effort was made to clear the tracks with troops?

A. I do not recollect.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. Did it occur to you that Saturday would be a bad day to undertake the movement of trains?

A. It has occurred to me. Whether it occurred to me then or not I am not able to answer.

Q. Were you aware that the rolling mills and manufacturing establishments in Pittsburgh closed at noon on Saturday?

A. I don't think I was at that time.

Q. And that a large number of men were idle on Saturday afternoon?

A. I don't think I was at that time, but it is just one of those sort of things I know now, and I cannot give a full recollection or impression. I know this much, there was no direct report to me of this fact with any suggestion that the movement be suspended on account of that fact, because then I would recollect distinctly.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Your own understanding when you got to Pittsburgh was the civil authorities had lost all control, and were powerless?

A. When I first got to Pittsburgh?

Q. Yes?

A. Yes; so far as any force they had.

Q. They were powerless to disperse the crowd?

A. Yes, sir; so far as any force which they could control as a civil posse.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. After the burning commenced Saturday—the burning of cars—did it occur to you that it was possible for General Brinton, with the men he had there, to stop that in any way?

A. I don't know. It occurred to me.

Q. Did you take it into consideration?

A. I don't know that I did particularly. I was not thinking particularly about that.

Q. Did you have any consultation with the railroad officials during the night there as to any means—or try to devise any means to stop the burning cars?

A. There was not any of them there.

Q. What became of the railroad officials?

A. I don't know, sir.

Q. When did you miss them?

A. I last saw Mr. Cassatt somewheres towards dark. They were down stairs. I think Mr. Cassatt was down, but I didn't see him. He came back again.

Q. Did you see Pitcairn during the night?

A. I don't think I ever saw Pitcairn after I had talked with him about the cars.

Q. Did you see Mr. Scott?

A. Scott was the first man to tell me about the collision. He came in the room and announced the collision, said it was very sad, and walked out. I saw Mr. Phillips, another railroad man, I recollect, when the fire was getting close to the hotel. He and Russell threw cartridges into the pitcher full of water, thinking it would destroy them.

Q. What time did you arrive at the Union depot?

A. I estimated it at about noon.

Q. Sunday?

A. Sunday, yes, sir.

Q. What means did you take Sunday to try to stop the burning?

A. I didn't take any. I had nothing to take any means with. There were six gentlemen in citizens' clothes—most of them civilians—all civilians I think. The next day when I first heard that, Captain Aull was the first party who came in. He announced that the troops had got out of the round-house. There were two parties from East Liberty who had come into the room to ask me to retain the Eighteenth regiment there, and I looked at them in astonishment when I had ordered them to come in to the relief of General Brinton. While I was talking to those citizens, Captain Aull came in, and he overheard the conversation. He stepped up and told me he had driven through Brinton's troops, and they were marching out. I was relieved from a great deal of anxiety, so I sat down and immediately told Aull—having no other, I think—sat down and dictated a dispatch, which appears here on page 11, addressed to Brinton, signed by me, dated July 22, 1877:

Pittsburgh, July 22, 1877.

Major General R. M. Brinton:

Remain in position at stock-yards, or thereabouts, securing yourself, and await further orders. Congratulate you on your manœuver of this morning. Consult with Colonel Guthrie, and govern yourself accordingly. From information received here, it appears Eighteenth regiment is sufficient to protect stock-yards, and will not excite special prejudices of the mob. There is an old fort in the vicinity, which is suggested as a good place to hold. It can be shown to you by parties familiar with the neighborhood.

Keep your channels of subsistence well open, and await further orders. There may be some developments, which, of course, will require you to act on your own responsibility. If any troops arrive at East Liberty, assume command of them. Report their arrival here, if possible. Norris will be on the ground shortly, and explain the situation here. Act after consultation with him.

James W. Latta, Adjutant General.

At the same time, Norris being a staff officer—it is not customary to give a staff officer written instructions—I started him off to talk with Brinton. Brinton appears to have given this order sometime about the 31st of July, seven or eight days afterwards. Norris got hold of me, and told me the purport of the order, and told me what the directions were, and he moved about a mile beyond Sharpsburg bridge and stayed there. I started off to try to make a junction with the troops at Walls, which I did not know at that time had gone to Blairsville.

Q. Did you have any consultation with the officers on Sunday?

A. I saw no citizens of Pittsburgh on Sunday, except Mr. Bennett. Whether we called to see him or not, I don't know. I was in the room just as Norris had returned to the Monongahela house. Bennett and Cassatt were sitting upon one bed, and Norris and some other gentleman on the other, and Norris was giving a description of his ride to Brinton, and I was introduced to Mr. Bennett, and shook hands with him, and overheard part of their conversation, which was to the effect that Mr. Bennett was trying to persuade Cassatt to make some compromise with the men, which Cassatt refused to do.

Q. He was the only one?

A. I think so; the only one I saw. I was going to say, I remained there until nine o'clock at night, and then I had got dispatches from every part of the country, that showed everything was in a general uprising, and I made up my mind I must get to Harrisburg, and Phillips told me there was no way to get over the Pennsylvania, and we went to Beaver, believing the Erie route to be the most practicable. At Beaver I telegraphed to Scott to get a special train. Scott intimated their road was open, and I hired a carriage and drove back to Allegheny City, and came back here.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Do you know what became of the ammunition in the Union depot?

A. Before I left the Union depot I spent about nearly an hour in arranging a plan to get it saved. I left it in charge of Captain Breck. The plan we had arranged was to—that was just about the time the milkmen were going back to their places in the country—to get empty milk cans and open the boxes and pour the ammunition into the cans and take the ammunition out. I am told that he got five or six cans loaded, and was on his way to hunt transportation, when the fire got hold of the thing, and the ammunition was destroyed.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did the mayor, in that interview, express any intention or desire to suppress this—making any attempt to control it?

A. No, sir; simply said the matter was beyond his control, and he could not do anything, and he was tolerably mad.

Q. Did he say he had in the first place?

A. No, sir; I didn't ask him anything about that.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Who explained the movements of the troops, as they advanced out to Twenty-eighth street?

A. General Pearson. He showed his plans to me before he started.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Do you know whether the command was given to fire that day, by any of the officers?

A. I do not know anything about it.

Q. Do you know whether General Pearson was there at the time the firing took place?

A. I do not know.

Q. Do you know how General Pearson was dressed on that day?

A. Yes, sir; he left me with a blouse on. Major general's shoulder-straps and fatigue cap, and my impression is he had one of these old fashioned blouses, with the braid in front, and a sword and belt. Whether the belt was outside of the blouse or inside, I cannot recollect. He had a fatigue uniform of the United States army, excepting that braid, if that was there. It is not now a part of the uniform.

Q. What time did he leave you with that uniform on?

A. He left me with that uniform on, about three o'clock, and returned again with it on at night.

Q. Did he have it on at night?

A. Yes, sir.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. You saw him before the firing, and after the firing with the same uniform on?

A. Yes, sir; with the same uniform.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. After you returned to Harrisburg, who directed the troops from that time until the arrival of the Governor in the State?

A. There was very little direction done. In the meantime he had been advised of my movements, and he had in the meantime been directing himself. After the Pittsburgh collision, he commenced to move the troops, and we got into the same channel. Pretty much all the orders were alike.

Q. Do you know anything about a collision that occurred at Reading, with General Reeder's troops?

A. Only as it is officially reported by General Reeder and Bolton. It was reported here immediately, I saw it the next day.

Q. What time did General Huidekoper get to Pittsburgh?

A. He got to Pittsburgh from Chicago, a little before daylight on Sunday morning.

Q. Did you have any consultation with him after his arrival?

A. We had a plan of battle arranged there. Huidekoper started on its accomplishment. We chartered a steamboat, and we managed to smuggle several boxes of ammunition from the hotel, and he went to Rochester, believing his troops were coming down. He ought to have been in Pittsburgh by noon, but the troops were stopped by the riot.

Q. They were stopped by reports at Greenfield?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Who was the colonel commanding these troops that were on their way?

A. I think they were in charge of a major on the Allegheny Valley road. They were in charge of Lieutenant Colonel Magee.

Q. They were not in charge of Colonel Carpenter?

A. Possibly so. I don't know that. Magee—I had communications with him.

Q. Do you know why they stopped at Greenfield?

A. No, sir.

Q. Did you ever try to ascertain the causes?

A. No, sir; that matter was altogether in the hands of General Huidekoper; he was division commander.

Q. Did Huidekoper report to you any reasons for it?

A. No, sir; not unless there is something in this report here. I think if he had I would have recollected it.

Q. Was it reported to you by anybody that there was no cause for the stopping of the troops there, excepting that the colonel commanding the troops was afraid to go on?

A. I never heard. I don't think I ever heard that before. There was plenty of ammunition; there was five thousand rounds of ammunition at Greenfield at the time.

Q. Plenty of ammunition in Greenfield?

A. I didn't know it then because it was in Huidekoper's division. I learned afterwards it was at Greenfield.

Q. They should have arrived, you say, at Rochester, at what time?

A. If the trains had been on time they ought to have been in Pittsburgh at twelve o'clock.

Q. Sunday?

A. Sunday, yes, sir.

Q. They never got any further than Greenfield?

A. Not within fifty or sixty miles. Huidekoper left Rochester and went out west to meet the Governor. He gave up all hopes of getting near about noon.

Q. Were any steps taken by the commander-in-chief to ascertain the cause of that delay?

A. No, sir; we assumed it was because they could not get the hands to run them. That was the report from every place, and it seemed to be generally confirmed. I was just going to say, in looking at this matter, it ought to be looked at in an exceptional light. It is a thoroughly new thing. The soldiers ought not to be reflected on as severely as the people have. There is as much courage in the National Guard as there is anywhere, and it ought not to be judged of in the light of a regular warfare nor by such rules.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. You found after you had organized the troops, and had them out a few times that they were just as good as any soldiers?

A. Just as good as any soldiers you bring from any quarter of the globe.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. It was reported that some Philadelphia troops were captured across the Susquehanna here by a squad of rioters from Harrisburg, and tramps, and brought into the city. I wish you would state what you know about that, and who the troops were?

A. I only know if as you do. I didn't see it, and know nothing of it.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. But was the thing not officially reported?

A. Nothing official reported to me. I believe the officer in charge of those troops is now undergoing trial by court martial in Philadelphia.

Q. Do you know who it is?

A. I only know from hearsay.

Q. Do you know of any troops that were ordered to Pittsburgh returning without orders?

A. I heard so, yes, sir; that there were troops that did return.

Q. Do you know it officially?

A. No.

Q. Of your own knowledge?

A. I don't think any troops did return, as bodies, to Philadelphia. Scattered, straggling men did, but no body of troops returned to Philadelphia. I do not think that the straggling in the National Guard was equal to what it is sometimes.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Do you approve of General Brown's course, in disbanding his regiments at Pittsburgh?

A. If it be a fact that General Brown did give these troops directions to leave, it was a most outrageous breach of everything a good soldier ought to have done. I believe those troops there could have held that place until now.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. I understand you to say that it is your judgment that those troops might have held that place?

A. I think so.

Q. Do you know anything as to the reasons that induced General Brown to disband those two regiments?

A. Haven't the most distant idea. I don't even know that it is a fact, except as I have seen it alleged in the newspapers.

Q. Are you well acquainted with General Brown?

A. I have known him five or six years. He has a very fine record in the army. He used to be adjutant in our corps.

Q. Stood well, up to this time, in the National Guard?

A. Excellently well.

Q. Do you know that he was at that time laboring under any physical or mental disability?

A. No, I do not, except that he struck me as being most terribly fussy, and … a whole lot of information that it was not worth while bothering with.

Q. Did he strike you at that time as laboring under any mental disability?

A. No; I would not at all have considered that.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Did he show unusual excitement—nervousness?

A. Brown is a terribly talkative fellow, and he talked in his usual strain; I should not have set him down as anywise wrong.

C. N. Farr, recalled:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. I wish you would state whether you were present when General Latta received a dispatch from General Brinton, on Saturday evening?

A. Yes, sir; I was.

Q. Of the 21st. State as nearly as you can what the import of that dispatch was?

A. I cannot remember it sufficiently to give any of the language, except the general impression left upon my mind that General Pearson had left me, and that he had had no communications, and didn't understand the situation, and stated the condition of his troops, and how particularly he stated that I can't remember, except that the impression left upon my mind was that the troops were in danger of demoralization. There was a certain amount of unreliability, and that was intensified from the fact that we knew or understood, at that time, that the Pittsburgh division had gone to pieces, and up to that time we had considered that there would be no difficulty in General Brinton's holding his position until morning; that he had sufficient force, and was well armed and ammunitioned; but the dispatch created the impression that his troops were somewhat infected with that feeling of sympathy, or disinclined to take vigorous operations, and I understood that to be the reason why no more vigorous measure were taken.

General James W. Latta, recalled:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. In relation to General Brown—whose duty would it be to investigate the conduct of General Brown there at that time?

A. General Pearson's duty first; and if he did not investigate it himself, he ought to have reported the fact officially here. There was no official report that reached my department of General Brown's having, on that night, asked any troops to withdraw.

Q. Was General Pearson relieved of his command for any time after the troubles on the 21st there?

A. He remained temporarily withdrawn from his command until we started off to Scranton. When the Governor came into Pittsburgh that night, he found nobody but Brown, and placed Brown in temporary command of the troops that had been gotten together in the city.

Q. How long did Brown keep that position?

A. I should think from the 24th or 25th of July until the 1st day of August.

Q. No report has ever reached you officially that he did dismiss his troops?

A. No, sir; I never heard anything of it directly, except what Captain Bingham told me that morning, and I did not know but that Captain Bingham might have been misinformed—he might not have been in direct communication with his general. I did not pay much attention.

Q. Did any report reach you from Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard?

A. I saw Colonel Gray's report in the newspaper. Colonel Howard I don't think ever said anything to me about it.

Q. Does Colonel Gray or Colonel Howard mention the fact in their official report?

A. They don't come to me, sir.

Q. To whom do they report officially?

A. To General Pearson.

Q. Those don't come to you at all?

A. No, sir.

At this point, the committee adjourned until to-morrow morning, at nine o'clock.

Harrisburg, March 12, 1878.

The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at ten o'clock, A.M., in Senate committee room No. 6. All members present except Mr. Larrabee.

Honorable A. J. Herr sworn:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. It is made the duty of this committee, under the resolution by which they were appointed, to examine into the conduct of the militia of the State. Will you please state what knowledge you have of misbehavior on the part of the officers?

A. My personal knowledge is not very extensive, but the information that I received from credible citizens of Harrisburg, is clear and pointed. Shall I give you what I saw first?

Q. Yes.

A. One day during the riots—what day I can't recollect—but one day during the riots, I happened to be on the pavement in front of the court-*house in the city of Harrisburg, and I saw a large crowd, men and half grown boys, coming up from the depot, going towards the bridge that spans the Susquehanna river. The impression prevailed amongst the citizens that this crowd was going over the bridge to make an attack upon some soldiers that were said to be there. After a time—maybe half an hour or thereabouts—the greater part of that same crowd came back from the bridge. Then I saw in the center as it were of some few men and some half grown boys, soldiers, and these half grown boys, or some of them, were carrying the guns of the soldiers, and they were fraternizing with the young boys round about the soldiers. The soldiers, themselves, all seemed to be in good humor, seemed to know each other, and passed along very nicely and quietly, and the point of the whole thing was, that these soldiers had in this way allowed these few half grown boys either to take the guns, or they had delivered the guns up, and so they passed on down the street, these soldiers, with these few boys surrounding them, and I lost sight of them. I was then afterwards told, that the soldiers had sent word over to some of the people in town that they wanted to come to Harrisburg, and that they wanted these people to come over and escort them into Harrisburg. And then I was told further, that these parties had provided accommodations for these soldiers—these last two things I do not know, only that the rumors were upon the street, and at that time prevailing. And the feeling in my own breast, as well as throughout the citizens, was one of humiliation, that these soldiers would either give up their arms to these half grown boys, or send word to them that they wanted them to come and take them over to Harrisburg, or that they allowed them to take their arms. That is what I saw, and all I saw.

Q. How many of the soldiers were there?

A. That I cannot tell, because you know how difficult it is in a moving crowd to tell just about how many. I should suppose, maybe, there were six or seven or eight, or thereabouts. I am not accurate in regard to that, but there was a goodly squad.

Q. Were there any officers among them?

A. That I can't tell. You know I couldn't see very well, in the first place.

Q. Did you notice whether they were uniformed or not?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. No officers then?

A. That I could not say. I did hear that there was either a lieutenant or captain, but I am not positive in regard to that, but those were the general facts that I witnessed.

Q. How large was the crowd of half grown boys around them?

A. I should suppose, maybe, there were ten or twelve, that is, of the immediate crowd, that also was looking on, were attached to the body of men that were bringing the soldiers over. You might say that, perhaps, there were ten or twelve; but the crowd outside of the immediate circle of young fellows that had the guns was larger, and for the most part I guess they were spectators.

Q. When they went over the bridge in going out, how large a crowd was there?

A. It was a pretty large crowd, perhaps it numbered—I really don't know, but should suppose that that crowd may have numbered two hundred or thereabouts, but they didn't all go across the bridge, because I was told that the bridge-keeper kept them back, and would not let them all go, but I suppose the van of the crowd got over before they closed the gates.

Q. What is the bridge-keepers name—give it in full if you can?

A. That I can't tell; but I will get it and hand it to you, or to one of the gentlemen. I might get it in the Senate chamber. I guess, maybe, Mr. Childs could tell it.

Q. Which bridge was it, the covered bridge?

A. Yes, sir; that was about all I saw then. Shortly after, or some time after that, a gentleman by the name of Major Mumma—Major David Mumma——

Q. Do you know what those boys did with that squad?

A. I said that I heard that they took them down to some hotel and provided meals for them, and furnished them, I was also told, with means to get away. That I only heard.

Q. Do you know what hotel it was?

A. My recollection is it was some hotel—Boyer's hotel, on the railroad. I may be mistaken in regard to that. Some of the hotels down in that neighborhood. I was going to say that Major David Mumma, of this city, told me, and I have no doubt it is true, but he can give it you first hand, that he had occasion to go out to his farm, and to reach that farm he had to pass a little town by the name of Progress, and there he found a number of soldiers, and, I understood him to say, the officers with their epaulets torn off, and their buttons cut off, and very much excited and alarmed; and that they told him they had come, I don't know where, over the mountains and through the valleys, and all that sort of thing, and there they were.

Q. These are the ones you alluded to?

A. Partly.

Q. Where were they found?

A. In a little tavern in the little town by the name of Progress, near here. I would rather you would get the full statement direct from the major in regard to that. I can repeat what he said, but you can get it first hand.

Q. This was the party that was captured by the boys?

A. No, no. I just told you what I saw. Now I am only referring to what Major Mumma and other citizens told me about a squad of soldiers, and they characterized them as officers, epaulets cut off and buttons cut off, in a little tavern in a little town called Progress, near this city, and he described their alarm, and what he did to get them safe to the arsenal.

By Mr. Means:

Q. Did it appear to you that the boys had taken these soldiers prisoners? Did they treat them as prisoners, escort them in unarmed?

A. You could hardly use the word prisoners, because the prisoners seemed to be so willing. They were rather captives.

Q. A prisoner generally makes a show to go willingly?

A. It would only be an opinion as to whether the boys—my own opinion is, that the boys did not capture them in the sense of these men resisting, and finally conquered them, but rather think that I believe what I was told afterwards is true—that is, that the soldiers had, some way or other, sent word here, and those fellows had gone over there.

Q. They wanted the boys to capture them?

A. I rather think so from what I was told.

Q. Did the soldiers carry arms?

A. No; the boys were carrying the arms.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. This crowd, when they started out—you could tell something by the way in which they started, whether they were moving toward an objective point?

A. Oh, yes, sir.

Q. That they appeared to be moving towards——

A. Yes, sir; just for instance, as you would stand by, and see a large crowd passing, and you would wonder where they were going, and you would keep looking to see that they were all directing themselves to one point, and you would then say, well, they are going there. Then I think that there is a Captain McAllister, who is living in Rockville, a few miles over here on the Susquehanna, he can tell you some very amusing things, and I don't know but a little humiliating, too. I could not distinctly recollect all it was that he said, because it was rather a humorous description he gave of their fright, &c.

Q. Is he a member of the National Guard?

A. No.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. The old gentleman?

A. No; it is the old squire, Jim—that is it, Captain James McAllister.

Q. Rockville, did you say?

A. In that neighborhood.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Do you know anything about the movements of the troops about the arsenal or anywheres about this town?

A. No; I can't say. There was so much said. I think that Sheriff Jennings and Mayor Patterson could give you a good deal of information about the movement—the incipient movements of the troops here. Both of those gentlemen could give you a good deal of information.

Q. Was the mayor in the city during all the time of the riots?

A. I think the mayor was, but the sheriff was not. The sheriff happened to be away. I think, if my recollection serves me, he was either at Atlantic City or Philadelphia at the commencement of the matter. The mayor, though, I understand, was all the time here, but the sheriff came, I think, just as soon as he was telegraphed for—as soon as he could get here.

Q. Do you know what action the mayor or civil authorities took to suppress or disperse the mob or crowd that was about the depot?

A. I was given to understand, and I think it is the truth, that he and the sheriff, after the sheriff came here, in effect, said to a large crowd that were round about the Lochiel hotel, that all those citizens who were in favor of peace and order should follow; and so the mayor, I understand, and the sheriff—at least one, if not both—led off, and quite a number of the citizens followed them with the purpose of protecting any property that might be threatened at the depot, and suppress any riot that might be threatened. Then I was told further that the mayor and the sheriff—either both or one—addressed the crowd; but what was said exactly I don't know; but the purpose was to preserve the peace, and that I think was the beginning of what was called the law and order party here. Then, the law and order party was composed of citizens of the different wards that were organized into companies, with their captains and their lieutenants, and met at certain points regularly, and were drilled, and patrolled the city from early evening until late at night, and in that way order was preserved here. If there had been any attempt to break the peace in a violent way, outside of simple murmurings and mutterings on the part of the crowd, these citizens were fully determined to suppress it, and they had the means to—I mean as far as arms are concerned.

Q. What was the spirit of that mob?

A. I did not see it.

Q. When they stood before the court-house?

A. You mean when it passed there? As a matter of course, there was a good deal of talk, and now and then you would hear a shot and a yell, and so on; and I remember this, that I looked into the faces of some of the men as they passed, and unless it was the effect of imagination altogether in my mind, I would say that these men had a settled, cold, determined look in their faces, and I apprehended trouble.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Were they railroad men, in their appearance?

A. No; I could not say that. My recollection is, that this man whose countenance I looked at particularly, as he was coming towards me, was a railroad man, but that was the only one I could see, that I believed to be a railroad man, although the probability is that there were more in it; but that fact I do not know.

By Mr. Dewees:

Q. Were there any strangers?

A. No; I don't think there were any strangers, although I can't say that I recognized any of them. If they were brought before me now, I could not say you were there or you were not there, because the fact of the matter is, I felt a little indignation, and so expressed myself to some police officers, that were standing, who happened to be near me. A police officer made a remark that excited me, and I turned upon him and berated him for what I supposed was his neglect of duty, and in that way my attention, possibly, was a little distracted from what was just passing at the time before me. If I understand you, you would like to get the name of this gate-*keeper at the bridge.

Q. Can you get any other gentlemen that could relate the same fact that Major Mumma can?

A. I cannot just now.

Q. About that squad of officers?

A. The major can. There was some people with him. McAllister's statement refers to a different transaction from what Mumma's does. Mumma's will be confined, if I remember rightly, to what he saw at Progress.

John D. Patterson, being duly sworn, testified as follows:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You were mayor of the city of Harrisburg, I believe, in July last?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. At what day did the first disturbance appear here?

A. On Saturday evening, July 23, I think; I do not just remember the correct date.

Q. The 21st?

A. The 21st; you are right.

Q. You may state now the character of it and where it first broke out?

A. Do you wish me just to—my attention was first called to the disturbance on Saturday night, probably at ten o'clock. I was at the office, and had sent out the police force or their regular duty, and a report came to the office that there was a large gathering at the Pennsylvania railroad depot. There was a prospect of some trouble there. The mob interfered with the shipping of some ammunition. I immediately sent a special officer to Independence island, where there was a pic-nic and dance going on—and we had anticipated considerable trouble there—to call in the chief of police, and on his way down he should bring in the police officers before he returned. The lieutenant of police I had sent him to the depot. He, in company with special officer Roat, arrested a party for threatening to interfere with the engineer of a train, and had started to bring him to the mayor's office, and were stoned up Chestnut street and up Third to the office. They succeeded in getting the man into the office, and a large crowd gathered there, and I went out front and requested them to disperse. Quite a number of them left; probably three or four hundred remained there. Did not seem to be malicious or disposed to do much damage. Then I sent this man that had been arrested to the door to state that he had been arrested for drunk and disorderly. The crowd then dispersed. On Sunday was the first intimation we had of the strike among the employés of the Pennsylvania railroad. I was told there was a very large crowd at the Asylum crossing, and I took a carriage and went up there during Sunday, but found no person there. On Sunday afternoon I was informed that there was a large meeting out on the commons. I went out, and there was a man named Torbett making a speech to the crowd there. After he left the top of the car, there was an insane man got on the top of the car and talked about organizing to go and take this arsenal. About this time there was a passenger train passed down through the yard to the depot, and the crowd dispersed in the direction of the depot. I walked to the depot and found they had stopped the train—interfering with it. A great gathering there, nearly all of our own citizens—good, bad, and indifferent were there. Passed down the depot to the coupling between the engine and the first car—the baggage car—and found a great many there pulling the coupling. Among them were a great many boys, ranging from fourteen to twenty years of age. I seized two or three of the boys, took them off the platform, and ordered them away, and got up on the steps of the car and made some few remarks to the crowd, calling on the citizens, if they were ready to assist the police, to step forward and we would disperse this crowd. At that time the people did not seem disposed to take much part, as there was no violence done as yet. I motioned to the engineer to pull out—we then had succeeded in coupling up the train. He declined to pull out. Afterwards stated he was informed there were obstructions on the track below the city. I came away and the crowd dispersed during the evening. Probably two hours afterwards they sent the train out. On Monday the parties became threatening; great crowds gathering through the city, stopping trains. I then called on some of the citizens, told them the status, and whatever was to be done must be done for Monday night. We must get ready, for that night we would probably have violence. After consulting with many of the prominent citizens, I went to the office, sent out a police force and notified the better class of citizens that their services would likely be required on Monday night, at least they should hold themselves in readiness to respond and report at the mayor's office in case of two taps of the court-house bell, at any time, day or night.

Q. Was it verbal notice?

A. Yes; it was given verbally to the citizens by the police officers.

Q. In the form of a demand by you, or request?

A. It was a request. I had instructed the police force from the beginning to exercise great care and discretion so as not to precipitate or provoke an outbreak; that as long as the strikers or mob failed to do violence, that we should wait until the sentiment of the people would change. I would say that when the strike first came upon us, I presume that the great majority of the people were in sympathy with the strikers—looked upon it as a strike or dispute between the employés and officers of the road—and their sympathies were with the employés; but afterwards the sentiment changed when they found that violence and destruction was perpetrated at Pittsburgh. Then the sentiment changed, and they were ready to take part to put down the outbreak on Monday evening. I came from my house probably at six o'clock—I had been to tea—and coming downtown I was informed that there was a squad of Philadelphia soldiers had gone to Market street in custody of the mob. I then passed down Market street, and found that they had gone up the railroad. I followed up the railroad to Broad street, and there I found probably three thousand people gathered—men, women, and children. The squad of soldiers were there, in addition to the squad that had been brought in from Rockville. I found out who the soldiers were, and I requested—ordered them to send the guns to the mayor's office. Then they had forty-nine breech-loaders.

Q. The leaders of the rioters?

A. The mob, yes sir. After talking to the rioters they were entirely satisfied to send the guns to the office, but said a portion of the crowd would object, and requested me to make a few remarks to them. I then mounted a shed that was there and talked to them a few moments, and they very cheerfully then sent the guns to the mayor's office. The guns were afterwards turned over to the State, by order of Governor Hartranft. During that night an order came to the office—a report came to the office that they were breaking into a gun store on South Second street. I took a portion of the police force, hurried to South Second street, and we found the mob in possession of a store belonging to a man by the name of Altmeyer. We found that he had opened the door. They had gone there in force and demanded the opening of the door, and he had opened the door, and struck the gas for them, and they were all in possession of guns, and pistols, and knives. I formed the police force on the front and went in to them and talked to them, and after some little parley they all returned their guns—took nothing out with them. We came back to the office, and there Mr. Bergner, editor of the Telegraph, reported to me that they were forming on Market street, preparatory to destroying his building. I then struck the signal for the citizens to turn out.

Q. What time was that?

A. That was probably eleven o'clock.

Q. Monday night?

A. Yes, sir. The moment we struck the court-house bell the citizens came to our assistance. The sheriff, in the meantime, had returned home. He had got home about seven o'clock in the evening. I reported to him what we had done, and if it met his approval he should carry it out, with our assistance. He approved of our course, and he took charge of the citizens. They formed them into what he called a law and order posse, into companies and into a regiment. We then, after, formed at the corner of Third and Market. The sheriff and one officer and myself went down street to the mob, and attempted to speak to them from the steps of Mr. Muench, but they would not listen to us at all. They had broken into a store or two on Market street in the meantime. We then came back and came down Market street with the police force and the citizens, and the mob dispersed.

Q. How large a police force do you have?

A. We had seventeen. We had fifteen officers in line and two at the office.

Q. How many citizens?

A. I presume we had over—I can scarcely give an estimate, as they were formed in the rear of the regular police force—probably three hundred. From three hundred to five hundred.

Q. Were the citizens armed?

A. Most of them were armed.

Q. With what?

A. Revolvers and clubs.

Q. How large was the crowd at that time?

A. I presume there were—it being night we could scarcely tell—the street was crowded with them. There may have been from six hundred to one thousand men in the street in front of us. When we went down Market street the mob dispersed, with the exception of probably two hundred, with whom we had a little collision at the foot of Market street. Then they dispersed and we had no further trouble.

Q. Was there any firing?

A. No, sir; not a shot fired.

Q. The police were ahead?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And they dispersed that mob?

A. The police would have been unable to disperse the mob without the assistance of the citizens.

Q. Were there any of the mob arrested?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many?

A. Probably eight or ten arrested during that night. Altogether, there were within the week, a few days following the riot, forty-five or forty-seven arrested.

Q. Were the police officers obliged to use their maces in order to disperse the mob that night at the foot of Market street?

A. No, sir.

Q. Those who were arrested, what class of men were they?

A. Most of them followed no occupation. Probably one third of them were employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company, and I would say that the employés of the Pennsylvania Railroad Company were only arrested for interfering with the business of the railroad—they were not arrested for breaking into the stores.

Q. Those that were arrested among the mob at the foot of Market street that night, were there any railroad men among them?

A. Yes; one of the leaders of the mob was a railroad man.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. Did the leaders seem to be railroad men—that is, that you came in contact with?

A. The fact is, they did not seem to have any leaders, except on Monday night, a man by the name of Finfrock seemed to be the leader. They looked upon him as their leader, and they looked upon him as their leader on Monday night. That was the only time they seemed to have any designated leader.

Q. What was done with the parties arrested?

A. Some of them were tried and convicted and sentenced to from three to eight months, with fines ranging from $20 to $500, I think. Others were held over for several terms, then their cases were disposed of. Most of them had families, and the greatest trouble we had here, was with them that followed no occupation—thieves and professional men—crooked men of all classes.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Tramps?

A. A great many tramps. The only man that was wounded by a shot during the excitement, was a tramp. He was turning a switch, and one of the police officers approached him, and he started to run, and he ordered him to halt, and the fellow would not halt, and he shot him in the leg. He was about the only man that was shot, and he was a tramp. Quite a number of those that were arrested and convicted of breaking into the stores and taking the most active part were tramps. We know them as professional tramps.

Q. Did you ascertain what the purpose of the mob was on Monday night, in case you had not succeeded in dispersing them?

A. I think there was a very small portion of the mob that were disposed to interfere with the loading of ammunition to be sent to Pittsburgh. In order to draw the crowd away from the depot, it appears that the officers had arranged that this man should make a little forward movement, and they would arrest him. That drew the crowd up, and while they were drawn away, they loaded the ammunition and sent it off.

Q. To Pittsburgh?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did you continue up this organization of citizens?

A. I think we continued the organization until the early part of August. It was not fully disbanded until the 10th of August.

Q. Did you have any trouble in raising it or getting the citizens to aid you?

A. No, sir; not at all. I presume we had from a thousand to twelve hundred men enrolled as members of the law and order posse.

Q. At the depot on Sunday night, when you called for the citizens to assist the police in protecting that train, did they respond?

A. No, sir.

Q. Was it from lack of—was it because they feared the result?

A. I think it was simply owing to the fact that they did not realize the situation at all. They were backward—I merely put the invitation to them, did not urge them at all, and I am satisfied, that if I had made a strong appeal to them, they would have responded.

Q. How large a police force have you?

A. Seventeen.

Q. In all?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were they kept on duty both day and night?

A. Yes; they were on duty for eight days, day and night.

Q. Usually, how many were kept on duty?

A. At night?

Q. Night?

A. Twelve.

Q. How many during the day?

A. Five.

Q. This squad of soldiers that was taken down Market street—did you find where the crowd left them?

A. The soldiers were with the mob at Broad street and Pennsylvania avenue. When I got there they were feeding them, and giving them their supper.

Q. Where did they get the food?

A. At the houses right there—one of the hotels.

Q. Private houses?

A. Yes; some of the private houses.

Q. Fed by their captors?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What finally became of them?

A. They were put on the train here and sent to Philadelphia.

Q. How many were there?

A. in this squad that was brought from the bridge, I think there were about fifteen. Probably sixteen or eighteen.

Q. Any officers among them?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. What rank?

A. Lieutenant.

Q. And the other squad that was brought from Rockville, how many were there of them?

A. I can scarcely tell you. We received forty-nine guns altogether, that had been captured.

Q. Do you know whose command they belonged to or what regiment?

A. The knapsacks were mostly marked State Fencibles, and some few Weccacoe Legion. I would just say. Mr. Chairman, that on Sunday we had requested the editors to publish no extras, it would only inflame the public mind still further, and with one exception they had complied with the request. On Sunday morning I had directed all the gun-stores and hardware stores, that were dealing in arms and ammunition, to put away their arms and ammunition during the day or early in the evening, quietly, so it would not be noticed, and we would have had no trouble and the mob got no guns at all except that a party on Market street failed to comply with that request—or on south Second street—they had removed their guns and brought them back on Monday evening to their store. On Sunday evening we had issued a proclamation calling upon citizens to remain at their homes, not to gather in crowds or about the street corners, and these proclamations were put in the hands of the public on Sunday evening. It was late, probably six o'clock or after, when it was printed. The citizens very generally complied with the proclamation. There was no trouble. Our citizens here showed a very willing disposition to do anything that was required of them, and offered their services after they fully realized the situation.

Q. On Sunday, were the saloons open?

A. No, sir; we closed the saloons in the proclamation of Sunday evening.

Q. How long were they kept closed?

A. We kept them closed until Thursday, I think—Wednesday or Thursday following—when we allowed them to open during the day and close at six o'clock in the evening.

Q. You controlled that yourself, as mayor of the city?

A. Yes. The great trouble with us here was as to the question of the authority of the mayor. Whether the mayor under the charter of 1874—while it provides for the mayor to have the same powers as the sheriff in case of an outbreak or riot, it was a question with some of our attorneys here, whether it was an outbreak in the sense of the act until there was some violence committed, and the sheriff unfortunately was absent until Monday. When he returned Monday evening there was no further trouble. We, however, had made arrangements to take the responsibility notwithstanding the doubt about it.

Q. If I understand you, there was no act of violence really committed by the railroad employés?

A. No, sir.

Q. It was done by outsiders and strangers?

A. The parties pulling the coupling of the passenger train on Sunday evening, I do not think there was a railroad employé amongst them at all. Not so far as my knowledge goes.

By Senator Reyburn:

Q. They were half-grown boys?

A. Yes; the great trouble was, they were boys fourteen to twenty-one years of age—boot-blacks and all classes. On Sunday night, when they talked about taking the arsenal, this man that had made these remarks was formerly an engineer of the Pennsylvania railroad, but, through religious zeal, he lost his reason, and was an inmate of an asylum. Of course, the remarks had very little weight. Did not carry the crowd with him at all. On Saturday night, Captain Maloney, after consulting with some of us, had taken his company to the arsenal with his guns. I called there on Sunday night about eleven o'clock, and he assured me he was fully able to hold the arsenal against the mob. After requesting him to telegraph us in case there was any appearance of an attack, I then came in, and requested Mr. Jenkins to unload Gobin's regiment below what was called the cut, as there was a great number of what was called the mob out between here and the track. We were afraid they would place obstructions on the track. Really they had placed obstructions on the track. I requested Gobin's regiment to be disembarked above the stock-yards, then they would have almost a direct route to the arsenal.

At this point the committee adjourned, until four o'clock this afternoon.

Harrisburg, March 12, 1878.

Committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at four o'clock, P.M., in Senate committee room No. 6. Mr. Lindsey in the chair. All members present.

W. W. Jennings:

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. You were sheriff of Dauphin county in July last?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Still sheriff?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Were you at home at the time of the first disturbance that broke out in Harrisburg.

A. I arrived home—I was at Atlantic City—I arrived home Monday evening, July 23, about half-past six or seven o'clock.

Q. Just state how you found the city as to order and quietness when you arrived home?

A. I found the city under a great deal of excitement. The trains, I was informed, had been stopped from running, and I immediately went to my counsel, Mr. Wise, for instructions in regard to my powers and duties, and met a number of the prominent citizens, and went to work at once under advice of my counsel to prepare a proclamation, and I was informed by the mayor and other citizens, that the citizens had been notified to assemble at two strokes of the court-house bell. I went around town and endeavored to get parties together, until about ten or eleven o'clock, as near as I can recollect, and spent sometime preparing a proclamation and advising with the prominent citizens, and one came to me at the Lochiel Hotel and said that the rioters were breaking into the stores on Market street. I called upon the good citizens for the preservation of law and order to go with me and suppress the riot. I suppose about one hundred or one hundred and fifty went with me, and went down Market street, and we dispersed the mob. We arrested a couple of the rioters there. Afterwards came back, and I sent squads out. I then organized the party into companies, and I sent squads out to arrest and take these men out of bed who had been prominent and active as rioters, who I was informed had been prominent and active as rioters, and we put those in jail. The next morning I had my proclamation out, and also orders organizing companies. The citizens responded promptly. We organized some ten or eleven companies, and we ran the town on military principles for about one week. We had an officer of the day detailed to patrol the town at night, and we had the fire department under command, and everything in readiness if there would be any further trouble.

Q. What was the nature of your proclamation, was it calling for citizens to join?

A. The substance of my proclamation was, commanding the rioters to disperse, warning them of the penalties of the law, and summoning all good and law-abiding citizens to assist me in putting down the riot.

Q. As a posse?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you have any difficulty in raising a posse of citizens?

A. No, sir; I cannot say that I had any great difficulty.

Q. They joined cheerfully.

A. They responded to my call. I arrived here at seven o'clock on Monday evening, and on Tuesday evening I paraded in the streets about nine or ten hundred men, organized as a regiment. My proclamation in the morning—that was issued on Tuesday morning. I had it printed during the night, and I had it posted all around town by daylight almost, and one of my proclamations called for them to assemble at the court-house, at two o'clock in the afternoon, and I supposed there were six or eight hundred men at two o'clock that afternoon there organized into companies.

Q. In the evening, at the Lochiel hotel, what was the nature of that call? Was it commanding the citizens to join you as a posse, or was it a request?

A. It was more of the nature of a request. Of course, the feeling in town was a matter I suppose would have to be handled very delicately, and I got up on the railing at the Lochiel hotel and said, "Gentlemen, I am informed the rioters are breaking into the stores down on Market street. For the preservation of law and order, how many of you will go with me to suppress it?" and there were a number of voices responded, "We will all go with you."

Q. And then you led off and they followed?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. When you reached the crowd, how large a crowd did you find assembled?

A. Well, I could not estimate the numbers. The line was drawn at the foot of Market street by the railroad. There was a line of men across the railroad there—standing there. I remember one man who was in front had a gun in his hand. I went up to him and took the gun from him, and he gave me some impudence and I took him by the neck and tossed him into the crowd.

Q. Was his gun loaded?

A. Yes; it was loaded.

Q. Who was that man?

A. A man by the name of Davis. He is now here in our jail.

Q. Was he a railroad man?

A. No, sir.

Q. What class of people were these rioters composed of?

A. Well, we afterwards arrested a number of railroaders, though we arrested a number who were not railroaders, and they who were not railroaders, I must say, were the worst characters. The railroaders did not want the trains to run, that was about the extent that they wanted or demanded. The other party, of course, that broke in stores, behaved in a riotous manner.

Q. What did your posse—or what did you find it necessary to do to disperse the crowd?

A. I think our appearance commanded respect. I could hardly put it in any other way. I think they thought we meant business when we went down there, and I gave them to understand that in as plain a way as I could.

Q. Did you disperse them?

A. Yes; we did.

Q. Was it necessary to use any violence in doing that, any more than to make the arrests you have told us?

A. Well, we arrested other parties there. In other words, when we came down there I told them what we proposed to do. We cowed them, and the parties who replied and gave us impudence, we arrested them at once.

Q. Did you have any soldiers, any of the militia at your disposal during any of them?

A. No, sir; we did not call for the militia at all.

Q. Did not find it necessary?

A. Did not find it necessary.

Q. About how large was the crowd at that time? How many would it number in your opinion?

A. It is a hard matter to give you an estimate. The crowd broke and ran across the bridge, and parties who lived on the other side of the canal have estimated them from two to five hundred people. I judge there were two or three hundred people there anyhow.

Q. Did they re-assemble at any time after being dispersed that night?

A. No, sir. Right after we had dispersed them, we organized at once into companies and patrolled the whole town, and of course it was known that we would arrest any assemblies or any crowds at any place. On Tuesday evening there were a number of parties who were looked upon with a good deal of suspicion at the depot—at the railroad; but they made no demonstration, and dispersed on our approach.

Q. What was done with the parties that you arrested?

A. Tried and convicted at court.

Q. Do you know how many were tried and convicted?

A. No, sir; I could not tell you. We had forty under indictment, I believe. Some of them are in jail now.

Q. Were they tried by the county courts or police courts?

A. They were arrested and had a hearing before the mayor, and were tried by the county courts—committed by the mayor, and tried by the county court.

Q. Were any of the militia brought in at any time?

A. No, sir.

Q. Coming under your own knowledge.

A. No, sir; not under my own knowledge.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. I would like to ask you a question. I have understood that there was considerable grumbling and growling about the expense for that thing—how much was that?

A. The county paid in the neighborhood of $2,000. They paid me $1,965. We heard of a case in North street where a man had some two or three hundred guns in his house, and on Tuesday we took the guns from him, and he brought in a small bill and the items were made up. There were fifty men that were detailed as specials. They were on duty, in connection with the mayor's police, as policemen, and we paid those two dollars a night—or two dollars a day—and it amounted to something upwards of $1,200—between $1,200 and $1,300—and the balance of the expense was for providing rations for our men at night. We were organized as a regiment, and we had regiment and company quartermasters, and we were provided with rations at night. They had quarters and all that kind of thing. That caused the expense, which was paid by the county commissioners.

Q. Not charged to the State?

A. No, sir; charged to the county. As it was all done under my orders, the county was liable for the expense—that part of it. The mayor had charge of these fifty men, to a great extent, that acted with his policemen—the mayor's policemen acted with me from the very start.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Both acted in conjunction harmoniously?

A. Yes; the mayor and his police were the first to tender their services.

Q. Not afraid of one superseding the other?

A. We had no trouble at all. We procured fifty revolvers from the State for the use of those fifty men we had. The other men armed themselves.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Armed with muskets, and rifles, and shot guns?

A. No, sir; I wanted them only to have clubs, but nearly every one of them had pistols.

By Mr. Lindsey:

Q. I understood you to say the mayor and police tendered their services to you?

A. As soon as I arrived in town, it was supposed by the people that the sheriff would take charge of it. The mayor came to me, and tendered the services of himself and the policemen, and the policemen and the mayor were in front in anything done where the danger was supposed to be.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. Held the post of honor?

A. Yes, sir. We used the policemen as skirmishers—you understand that.

By Mr. Engelbert:

Q. Of course, that expense has been paid by the county, and considered finally settled?

A. Yes; the expense consisting of pay for these fifty men, and there were some twenty—to distinguish them from them the rioters, we had badges printed and labeled, and all that kind of thing—did not think it necessary to get uniforms—and that cost something. The members of the posse got no pay at all.

By Senator Yutzy:

Q. In your official duties, did you inquire into the causes and origin of the riots, to ascertain what were the causes and grievances complained of?