SIXTH CONGRESS.—SECOND SESSION.

PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES

IN

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Monday, November 17, 1800.

This being the day appointed by law for the commencement of the second session of the sixth Congress, the following members of the House of Representatives appeared, and took their seats in the House, to wit:

From New Hampshire.—Abiel Foster, and Jonathan Freeman.

From Massachusetts.—William Shepard, Jno. Read, Joseph B. Varnum, Theodore Sedgwick, (Speaker,) Peleg Wadsworth, Silas Lee, and Lemuel Williams.

From Connecticut.—John Davenport.

From New York.—John Smith, Philip Van Cortlandt, Jonas Platt, Henry Glen, John Thompson, and Theodorus Bailey.

From Pennsylvania.—Michael Leib, Richard Thomas, Joseph Heister, Robert Brown, Peter Muhlenberg, Henry Woods, and John Smilie.

From Maryland.—George Dent, Geo. Baer, William Craik, Gabriel Christie, John C. Thomas, and Joseph H. Nicholson.

From Virginia.—Leven Powell, John Nicholas, Robert Page, John Dawson, Anthony New, George Jackson, and David Holmes.

From North Carolina.—Nathaniel Macon, Richard Stanford, and Willis Alston.

From South Carolina.—Thomas Sumter, and Benjamin Huger.

From Tennessee.—William C. C. Claiborne.

A new member, to wit, John C. Smith, returned to serve as a member of this House, from the State of Connecticut, in the room of Jonathan Brace, who has resigned his seat, appeared and produced his credentials.

The Speaker observed that it had heretofore been the invariable practice of the House to admit new members to take their seats previously to being sworn, though the constitution directed directly the reverse. As there was a new member present, he suggested the propriety of administering the oath to him before he took his seat.

Mr. Macon thought such a step premature. He was of opinion that no inconvenience would arise from delaying to administer the oath until a House was formed, and he thought great caution should attend an innovation opposed to all precedent.

Mr. Nicholas asked whether it had heretofore been usual, in the case of a new House, to swear the members before the choice of a Speaker?

The Speaker replied that it had not.

Mr. Nicholas said, that though, on first thought, he was favorable to administering the oath at the present time, yet this precedent inclined him to think such a step improper.

The Speaker waived the question.

The members present not being sufficient to form a quorum, the Speaker adjourned the body till to-morrow.

Tuesday, November 18.

Several other members, to wit: from Connecticut, Elizur Goodrich, William Edmond, and Roger Griswold; from New York, William Cooper and Lucas Elmendorph; from New Jersey, James H. Imlay and Franklin Davenport; from Pennsylvania, Robert Waln; from Maryland, Samuel Smith; from Virginia, Henry Lee, Thomas Evans, and John Trigg; from North Carolina, Richard Dobbs Spaight, and Joseph Dickson; and from Georgia, Benjamin Taliaferro, appeared and took their seats in the House.

And a quorum, consisting of a majority of the whole number, being present,

The oath to support the Constitution of the United States, as prescribed by the act, entitled "An act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths," was administered by the Speaker to John C. Smith, a new member, who appeared and took his seat in the House yesterday.

Ordered, That a message be sent to the Senate to inform them that a quorum of this House is assembled, and ready to proceed to business; and that the Clerk of this House do go with said message.

Wednesday, November 19.

Several other members, to wit: from Vermont, Lewis R. Morris, and from Virginia, Josiah Parker and John Randolph, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Thursday, November 20.

Two other members, to wit: from Virginia, Abram Trigg, and from Pennsylvania, Andrew Gregg, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Friday, November 21.

Several other members, to wit, from Massachusetts, George Thatcher; from New Jersey, John Condit, Aaron Kitchell, and James Linn; from Pennsylvania, John A. Hanna; and from South Carolina, Robert Goodloe Harper, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

A message from the Senate informed the House that a quorum of the Senate is assembled, and ready to proceed to business, and that, in the absence of the Vice President, they have elected the Hon. John Howard, President of the Senate, pro tempore.

Resolved, That Mr. Griswold, Mr. Samuel Smith, and Mr. Craik, be a committee, on the part of this House, jointly, with such committee as may be appointed on the part of the Senate, to wait on the President of the United States, and notify him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communications he may think proper to make to them.

Ordered, That the Clerk of this House do acquaint the Senate therewith.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have appointed a committee jointly, with the committee appointed by this House, to wait on the President of the United States, and notify him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communications he may think proper to make to them.

Mr. Griswold, from the joint committee appointed to wait on the President of the United States, and notify him that a quorum of the two Houses is assembled, and ready to receive any communications he may think proper to make to them, reported that the committee had performed that service, and that the President signified to them he would make a communication to both Houses to-morrow at twelve o'clock, in the Senate Chamber.

Saturday, November 22.

Two other members, to wit: from North Carolina, Archibald Henderson; and from Virginia, Edwin Gray, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

President's Speech.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate are now ready, in the Senate Chamber, to attend this House in receiving the communication from the President of the United States, agreeably to his notification to both Houses yesterday.

Mr. Speaker, attended by the members of this House, then withdrew to the Senate Chamber, for the purpose stated in the Senate's message; and, being returned, Mr. Speaker laid before the House a copy of the speech delivered by the President of the United States to both Houses of Congress, in the Senate Chamber. [See Senate proceedings of this date, ante, page 482.]

Ordered, That the said speech be committed to a Committee of the whole House immediately.

The House, accordingly, resolved itself into the said committee; and, after some time spent therein, Mr. Speaker resumed the chair, and Mr. Harper reported that the committee had had the said speech under consideration, and come to a resolution thereupon; which was twice read, and agreed to by the House, as follows:

Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee that a respectful address ought to be presented by the House of Representatives to the President of the United States, in answer to his speech to both Houses of Congress, at the commencement of the present session, containing assurances that this House will duly attend to the important objects recommended by him to their consideration.

Ordered, That Mr. Griswold, Mr. Macon, Mr. Craik, Mr. Henderson, and Mr. Nicholas, be appointed a committee to prepare an address, pursuant to the said resolution.

Ordered, That the Speech of the President of the United States be committed to the Committee of the whole House on the state of the Union.

And then the House adjourned.

Monday, November 24.

Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, Harrison G. Otis, and Phanuel Bishop; from Virginia, Matthew Clay; and from North Carolina, David Stone, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

William M'Millan, returned to serve as a Representative for the Territory of the United States north-west of the Ohio, in the room of William Henry Harrison, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

Tuesday, November 25.

Another member, to wit, John Wilkes Kittera, from Pennsylvania, appeared, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

A new member, to wit, Nathan Read, returned to serve as a member of this House from the State of Massachusetts, in the room of Samuel Sewall, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.

Wednesday, November 26.

A new member, to wit, Lyttleton W. Tazewell, returned to serve as a member of the House for the State of Virginia, in the room of John Marshall, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

Address to the President.

The House went into a Committee of the Whole on the reply to the President's Speech, which was read by paragraphs, and reported to the House without any amendments, as follows:

To John Adams, President of the United States:

Sir: The House of Representatives have received with great respect the communication which you have been pleased to make to the two Houses of Congress, at the commencement of the present session.

The final establishment of the seat of National Government which has now taken place within the District of Columbia, is an event of no small importance in the political transactions of our country: and we cordially unite our wishes with yours, that this territory may be the residence of happiness and virtue.

Nor can we, on this occasion, omit to express a hope, that the spirit which animated the great founder of this city, may descend to future generations, and that the wisdom, magnanimity, and steadiness, which marked the events of his public life, may be imitated in all succeeding ages.

A consideration of those powers which have been vested in Congress over the District of Columbia will not escape our attention; nor shall we forget that, in exercising these powers, a regard must be had to those events which will necessarily attend the Capital of America.

The cheerfulness and regularity with which the officers and soldiers of the temporary army have returned to the condition of private citizens, is a testimony clear and conclusive of the purity of those motives which induced them to engage in the public service; and will remain a proof, on all future occasions, that an army of soldiers drawn from the citizens of our country, deserve our confidence and respect.

No subject can be more important than that of the Judiciary, which you have again recommended to our consideration, and it shall receive our early and deliberate attention.

The Constitution of the United States having confided the management of our foreign negotiations to the control of the Executive power, we cheerfully submit to its decisions on this important subject. And in respect to the negotiations now pending with France, we sincerely hope that the final result may prove as fortunate to our country, as the most ardent mind can wish.

So long as a predatory war is carried on against our commerce, we should sacrifice the interests and disappoint the expectations of our constituents, should we, for a moment, relax that system of maritime defence, which has resulted in such beneficial effects. At this period, it is confidently believed that few persons can be found within the United States, who do not admit that a Navy, well organized, must constitute the natural and efficient defence of this country against all foreign hostility.

The progress which has been made in the manufacture of arms, leaves no doubt that the public patronage has already placed this country beyond all necessary dependence on foreign markets for an article so indispensable for defence; and gives us assurances that, under the encouragement which government will continue to extend to this important object, we shall soon rival foreign countries, not only in the number, but in the quality of arms completed from our own manufactories.

Few events could have been more pleasing to our constituents, than that great and rapid increase of revenue which has arisen from permanent taxes. Whilst this event explains the great and increasing resources of our country, it carries along with it a proof which cannot be resisted, that those measures of maritime defence which were calculated to meet our enemy upon the ocean, and which have produced such extensive protection to our commerce, were founded in wisdom and policy. The mind must, in our opinion, be insensible to the plainest truths, which cannot discern the elevated ground on which this policy has placed our country. That national spirit, which alone could vindicate our common rights, has been roused, and those latent energies, which had not been fully known, were unfolded and brought into view, and our fellow-citizens were prepared to meet every event which national honor or national security could render necessary. Nor have its effects been much less important in other respects.

Whilst many of the nations of the earth have been impoverished and depopulated by internal commotions and national contests, our internal peace has not been materially impaired; our commerce has extended, under the protection of our infant Navy, to every part of the globe; wealth has flowed without intermission into our seaports, and the labors of the husbandman have been rewarded by a ready market for the productions of the soil.

Be assured, sir, that the various, and important subjects recommended to our consideration, shall receive our early and deliberate attention; and, confident of your co-operation in every measure which may be calculated to promote the general interests, we shall endeavor, on our part, to testify, by our industry and despatch, the zeal and sincerity with which we regard the public good.

The report of the committee was immediately taken up, and, on the question to agree to the Address,

Mr. Nicholas rose and observed that he regretted the introduction of political matter, calculated to produce discord and division. He was averse to the House spending time in propounding political theories, as no good, but much mischief, might flow from such a procedure. Had no other topics or sentiments been alluded to than those contained in the President's Speech, there would have been much less division in the House than was to be expected from the insertion of extraneous ideas. He had no intention, however, to enter into a detail of the objections he entertained to the Address. For the reasons he had assigned, and others which he felt, he thought the style of the Address not only unnecessary, but worse than useless. He concluded by desiring the yeas and nays to be taken.

The question, being taken, was carried in the affirmative—yeas 36, nays 32, as follows:

Yeas.—Bailey Bartlett, William Cooper, Wm. Craik, John Davenport, Franklin Davenport, George Dent, Joseph Dickson, William Edmond, Thomas Evans, Abiel Foster, Jonathan Freeman, Elizur Goodrich, Roger Griswold, Archibald Henderson, Benjamin Huger, Jas. H. Imlay, Henry Lee, Silas Lee, James Linn, Lewis R. Morris, Harrison G. Otis, Robert Page, Josiah Parker, Jonas Platt, Leven Powell, John Read, Nathan Read, Wm. Shepard, John C. Smith, Richard Dobbs Spaight, George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Peleg Wadsworth, Robert Waln, Lemuel Williams, and Henry Woods.

Nays.—Phanuel Bishop, Robert Brown, Gabriel Christie, Matthew Clay, William C. C. Claiborne, John Condit, John Dawson, Lucas Elmendorph, Edwin Gray, Andrew Gregg, John A. Hanna, Joseph Heister, David Holmes, George Jackson, Aaron Kitchell, Michael Leib, Nathaniel Macon, Peter Muhlenberg, Anthony New, John Nicholas, John Randolph, John Smilie, John Smith, Richard Stanford, David Stone, Thomas Sumter, Benjamin Taliaferro, John Thompson, Abram Trigg, John Trigg, Philip Van Cortlandt, and Jos. B. Varnum.

Resolved, That Mr. Speaker, attended by the House, do present the said Address; and that Mr. Griswold, Mr. Macon, and Mr. Craik, be a committee to wait on the President to know when and where it will be convenient for him to receive the same.

Credentials of Members.

Mr. Dent, from the Committee of Elections, to whom were referred the certificates and other credentials of the members returned to serve in this House, made a report, in part, which was read as follows:

"That they have examined the credentials of several members, claiming seats in the House, in consequence of resignations which have taken place, and find that, by the certificate of the Governor of Massachusetts, dated the eleventh day of November, eighteen hundred, under the seal of the State, Nathan Read (of Danvers) is duly elected, in the place of Samuel Sewall; that by the certificate of the Governor of Connecticut, bearing date twentieth day of October, eighteen hundred, with the seal of the State annexed, John Cotton Smith is duly elected, in the place of Jonathan Brace; and that, by the certificate of the Deputy Sheriff of Henrico, the Sheriff of Hanover, the Sheriff of New Kent, the Deputy Sheriff of Charles City, and the Sheriff of James City Counties, composing one entire district in the Commonwealth of Virginia, under their respective seals, Lyttleton Waller Tazewell is duly elected, in the place of John Marshall.[58]

"The committee also find, by an authenticated certificate signed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and the President of the Legislative Council of the Territory north-west of the river Ohio, dated the seventh day of November, eighteen hundred, that Wm. McMillan is duly elected to represent the said Territory, in the place of William Henry Harrison.

"Whereupon, the committee are of opinion that Nathan Read, (of Danvers,) John Cotton Smith, and Lyttleton Waller Tazewell, are entitled to take their seats in the House in the place of Samuel Sewall, Jonathan Brace, and John Marshall, who have resigned; and that William McMillan is entitled to take his seat therein, with the right of debating, but not of voting, in the place of William Henry Harrison, who has resigned."

Ordered, That the said report do lie on the table.

Thursday, November 27.

Another member, to wit, John Bird, from New York, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Answer to the Address.

The Speaker, attended by the House, then withdrew to the house of the President of the United States, and there presented to him the Address of this House in answer to his Speech to both Houses of Congress; to which the President made the following reply:

Mr. Speaker, and Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:

Compelled by the habits of a long life, as well as by all the principles of society and government which I could ever understand and believe, to consider the great body of the people as the source of all legitimate authority, no less than all efficient power, it is impossible for me to receive this Address from the immediate Representatives of the American people, at this time, and in this place, without emotions which it would be improper to express, if any language could convey them.

May the spirit which animated the great founder of this city descend to future generations; and may the wisdom, magnanimity, and steadiness, which marked the events of his public life, be imitated in all succeeding ages.

I thank you, gentlemen, for your assurance that the Judiciary System shall receive your deliberate attention.

With you, gentlemen, I sincerely hope that the final result of the negotiations now pending with France, may prove as fortunate to our country, as they have been commenced with sincerity, and prosecuted with deliberation and caution. With you, I cordially agree, that so long as a predatory war is carried on against our commerce, we should sacrifice the interests and disappoint the expectations of our constituents, should we for a moment relax that system of maritime defence, which has resulted in such beneficial effects. With you, I confidently believe that few persons can be found within the United States, who do not admit that a Navy, well organized, must constitute the natural and efficient defence of this country, against all foreign hostility.

Those who recollect the distress and danger to this country, in former periods, from the want of arms, must exult in the assurance, from their Representatives, that we shall soon rival foreign countries, not only in the number, but in the quality of arms, completed from our own manufactories.

With you, gentlemen, I fully agree, that the great increase of revenue is a proof that the measures of maritime defence were founded in wisdom. This policy has raised us in the esteem of foreign nations. That national spirit and those latent energies which had not been and are not yet fully known to any, were not entirely forgotten by those who had lived long enough to see, in former times, their operation, and some of their effects. Our fellow-citizens were undoubtedly prepared to meet every event which national honor or national security could render necessary. These, it is to be hoped, are secured at the cheapest and easiest rate: if not, they will be secured at more expense.

I thank you, gentlemen, for your assurance that the various subjects recommended to your consideration, shall receive your deliberate attention. No further evidence is wanting to convince me of the zeal and sincerity with which the House of Representatives regard the public good.

I pray you, gentlemen, to accept of my best wishes for your health and happiness.

JOHN ADAMS.

Washington, Nov. 27, 1800.

The members then returned to their Chamber.

A message from the Senate informed the House that the Senate have proceeded to the appointment of a Chaplain to Congress, on their part, and the Right Reverend Bishop Clagett has been duly elected.

The House proceeded, by ballot, to the appointment of a Chaplain to Congress on the part of this House; and upon examining the ballots, a majority of the votes of the whole House was found in favor of the Reverend Thomas Lyell.

Friday, November 28.

Another member, to wit, Abraham Nott, from South Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Monday, December 1.

Several other members, to wit: from Maryland, John Dennis; from Virginia, Joseph Eggleston; from North Carolina, William H. Hill; and from Georgia, James Jones, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Tuesday, December 2.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter from the Secretary of the Navy, accompanying a report of the Commissioners of the fund for navy pensions and half-pay, pursuant to the act for the better government of the Navy of the United States; which was read, and ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. Lee, from the committee appointed for that purpose, reported a bill for erecting a Mausoleum to George Washington, which was read twice and referred to a Committee of the Whole to-morrow.

The bill directs that the mausoleum shall be of marble, to be erected in the City of Washington, under the superintendence of the four Secretaries.

Trade with the Indians.

Mr. Claiborne stated that during the last session a committee was appointed to inquire into the state of the trade, authorized by law, with the Indian nations. That committee had reported unfavorably to the trade. But desirous of maturing with deliberation a new plan before the old one was supplanted, they had reported a bill for continuing the existing system for one year. The bill had passed the House of Representatives unanimously, but had been postponed by the Senate to this session.

For his own part, he was altogether unfavorable to the trade; for he believed that it answered no good purpose in relation to the Indians, while it was a loss to the United States.[59] It was, however, proper that some Legislative provision should be made immediately. The old law regulating the officers who had the superintendence of the trade, had expired, and they were of consequence under no legal control.

He, therefore, moved the appointment of a committee, to inquire into the expediency of carrying on any further trade on a capital furnished by the United States, to report by bill or otherwise; which motion being read a second time, was agreed to, and a committee of three appointed.

Thursday, December 4.

Another member, to wit, Samuel Goode, from Virginia, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

The Speaker informed the House that the Chaplains had proposed, if agreeable to the House, to hold Divine service every Sunday in their Chamber.

Reporting the Debates.

Mr. Hill presented a memorial from Samuel Harrison Smith and Thomas Carpenter, representing that they had undertaken to report the debates of the House; that, contrary to their expectation—on the suggestion of inconvenience to the members—they had not received permission to occupy a situation within the bar, without which they were unable to state with fidelity the proceedings and debates; and praying the permission of the House to be admitted within the bar.

As soon as the memorial was read, the Speaker rose and observed, that feeling himself responsible to the House for the faithful discharge of the duties attached to his situation, he thought it proper to state the line of conduct he had pursued in this business. He stated that he was applied to by letter on the first day of the session, by Mr. Stewart, requesting permission to occupy a place within the bar; that he immediately took the request into consideration; that, in the mean time, similar requests were made by other individuals; that, on observing the structure of the room and the arrangement of the furniture, it at once appeared to him inconsistent with the dignity of the House or the convenience of the members to grant the permission asked; that the area was too small to afford the necessary accommodation; that the position considered as the least inconvenient to the House was within the window-frames; that, in his opinion, this position would not be agreeable to the stenographers, as the view of the members on the opposite side of the House from either window would be obstructed; that, if a position was assigned in any other part of the House, the stenographers would be between the chair and some of the members, which would render the preservation of order impossible; that he had stated these reasons, and informed the applicants that, if agreeable to them, he would assign a place in the gallery, which should be set apart for their exclusive use; and that he considered that to be the most eligible position. He concluded by repeating, that it was, in his opinion, absolutely impossible to preserve the dignity of the House and to maintain the convenience of the members, if the requested permission were given. Such was his first, his invariable opinion—it was unaltered—it was still the same.

Mr. Nicholas said, that the members of the House must feel a common interest in having the debates taken with fidelity. If the debates were taken, they ought to be taken with precision. Those who took them should not be debarred from the best means of hearing with accuracy. For his part he could not discern the inconvenience alleged to exist. The desk, which it was necessary to admit within the bar, would not project beyond the window-frame; and as to the remark of the Speaker respecting the inconvenience of such a position to the stenographers, it was easily obviated by the consideration, that any inaccuracy which might occur in the report of the individual who took them on one side of the chair, would be checked by the reporter situated on the other side.

He thought the desire of the memorialists ought not to be passed over lightly. They had a right to the best place the House could assign. He moved the reference of the memorial to a select committee.

Mr. Hill observed that as the memorial contained no facts that required the investigation of a committee, and as the House possessed all the information that could guide their decision, he did not discern the propriety of the proposed reference. He had prepared a resolution, which, if the motion for a reference were withdrawn, he would offer.

Mr. Nicholas immediately withdrew his motion. Mr. Hill then proposed a resolution substantially to this effect: that Mr. Speaker be requested to assign places within the bar for the stenographers.

Mr. Otis was sorry the gentleman from Virginia had withdrawn his motion to refer the memorial to a select committee, as he thought the subject required examination before a decision was made. There appeared to him much weight in the ideas of the Speaker. Grant, for the sake of argument, that four persons may be accommodated at the windows. Might there not be other applications? Was any gentleman prepared to say how many would be made? If the permission were once granted to one, would it not be necessary to extend it to all? Would the House suffer any individual to have an exclusive benefit whereby a stamp of authenticity would be fixed on his statements.

This business, in one shape or other, had often been before the House, and all conversation respecting it had always issued in leaving it to the regulation of the Speaker. This appeared to him the best termination it could receive.

From the attention he had paid to the debates reported this session, he believed them to be better and more accurately taken, than they had been on former occasions. This to him was a proof that the present situation of the stenographers was a good one. He acknowledged, at the same time, that the ability with which the debates were taken entitled those who took them to the best accommodation the House could afford. He concluded with renewing the motion for a reference to a select committee.

Mr. Nicholas replied, that no debate had taken place which could test the accuracy of the stenographers. From his own experience he pronounced the situation at present occupied utterly inconvenient. What he had some days since remarked had been misstated. He well knew that this did not arise from the inability of the reporter to state correctly what occurred. He knew him to be intelligent, and fully capable of conceiving and conveying the meaning of any remarks which could be made in that House. But it arose from his situation, from which it was impossible to hear distinctly.

He declared the objections of Mr. Otis, in relation to the number of applicants, perfectly chimerical. Did the gentleman suppose that the number would be so great as to make a demand on their seats? As well might he imagine this, as that they would swell to the ideal compass he had given them. It was known to the House, that at Philadelphia the number was small; seldom more than two, and often not more than one persevered during the session, though a greater number appeared on its earliest days. Fact and experience, therefore, demonstrated the fallacy of the danger apprehended from this source.

The question was then taken on the reference to a select committee, and carried—ayes 42, noes 34.

And a committee of five, viz: Messrs. Otis, Nicholas, Platt, Morris, and Hill, was appointed.

Friday, December 5.

Several members, to wit: from North Carolina, William Barry Grove; from Kentucky, Thomas T. Davis; and from Rhode Island, Christopher G. Champlin, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Mausoleum to Washington.

Mr. H. Lee moved that the House do go into a Committee of the Whole on the bill "directing the erection of a mausoleum to George Washington."

On which motion the House divided—yeas 36, nays 34. Mr. Morris took the chair.

The Chairman, after reading the bill through, proceeded to read it by paragraphs. The first section is as follows:

"Sec. 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That a mausoleum of American granite and marble, in a pyramidal form, one hundred feet square at the base, and of a proportionate height, shall be erected, in testimony of the love and gratitude of the citizens of the United States, to George Washington."

Mr. Alston moved an amendment to the first section, which was, in substance, "that a monument of marble be erected in the Capitol, at the city of Washington, commemorative of the great events of the military and political life of George Washington."

Mr. H. Lee said, that during the last session the House, after a long debate, had declared itself in favor of a mausoleum, and that as no reasons had been assigned for a change of opinion, he hoped they would persevere in the deliberate result of their judgment.

Mr. Otis was ready to acknowledge himself unacquainted with many of the circumstances embraced by the subject. He therefore wished additional information to that which he had received. His present opinion was, that a mausoleum was preferable to a monument. He acknowledged that, in forming this opinion, he had felt great deference for the judgment of the committee which had recommended it. It was undoubtedly a subject but little understood. The formation of a proper decision depended upon a concurrence of several circumstances—upon a comparison of the expense with the value of the object to be accomplished. Besides this, it had many peculiar features not comprehended by every gentleman. He thought these considerations sufficient to induce the House to decline voting for the amendment, whereby the plan of the committee, who had maturely considered the subject in all its relations, would be frustrated, unless stronger reasons were assigned than he had yet heard.

Mr. Nicholas observed, that the bill directed the erection of a mausoleum of certain dimensions, to ascertain the expense of which an estimate had been made. But that estimate was not satisfactory. It was made without information. The sum to be expended was not fixed. It might vastly exceed any sum now contemplated. The mausoleum was to consist of a huge, ugly mass of stones heaped upon one another, to raise which a heavy and useless expense would be incurred. And what was the object? It was to perpetuate the memory of George Washington. Was the memory of that great man to be perpetuated by a heap of large inanimate objects? The best way in which his fame could be preserved would be by bringing his ashes from the place where they now lie, by depositing them in the Capitol at the will of the nation, in interring them in such a manner as had never before been done, in placing over them a plain tablet, on which every man could write what his heart dictated. This, and this only was the basis of his fame. It was not to be blazoned by figures or representations of any other sort. It consisted in the undecaying recollection of his virtues. It must live in the national feeling, and this called not for useless expense. Twenty thousand dollars was as competent to its expression as two hundred thousand. He hoped, therefore, the amendment would be adopted, and that the terms which related to military and political achievements would be omitted. He hoped a plain monument would be erected.

His preference of a monument to a mausoleum arose not from any indisposition to celebrate the memory of our American hero. He could say as much in his praise as any man. Neither a committee of Congress nor the four Secretaries, on whom the bill devolved the superintendence, felt more zeal for the character of this great man than he did.

Mr. Nott did not rise to consume the time of the committee by going at large into an examination of the subject, but to explain the reasons for the vote he meant to give. He had, last session, co-operated most cheerfully in all those measures which had been pursued to express the national sensibility at the loss of that great and immortal character. In the feelings of gratitude which his services excited, no man could outdo him. Among other measures, he had been friendly to the erection of a mausoleum. But, on more reflection, he had changed his opinion. He did not believe that a huge mass of stones would add to the reputation of Washington, or be more expressive of national affection, than a marble monument. This being the case, he preferred the latter, because it was the least expensive.

Mr. Griswold hoped the amendment would not prevail. It was the object of the bill to raise a monument which would last for ages, and which should be a perpetual memorial of the gratitude of America. Such would not be the case if the proposition made by the gentleman from North Carolina should be adopted. The monument proposed by him might be broken and destroyed by a lawless mob or by a set of schoolboys. For his part, he would not consent to raise such a monument to the memory of a man who had deserved so well of his country.

The bill proposed the erection of a monument that would stand unimpaired for ages. It is true that it will not perpetuate the fame of Washington: his fame required nothing which we could do to give it perpetuity; but it will perpetuate the gratitude of the country. It would be a structure that will command respect; it will be pointed out to our children; they will enter it with reverence, as the spot in which the ashes of this great man are deposited.

It was undoubtedly a subject of sentiment; and subjects of such a kind must be guided by feeling. Various opinions, therefore, may naturally be expected. His opinion was, that the national sentiment called for the erection of a structure correspondent in size to the character of the man to whom it was raised.

The general outlines of the bill might now be adopted; and if there existed a variance of opinion, the subordinate members of it might be modified.

Mr. H. Lee said, if it were the wish of gentlemen to avoid the adoption of measures commemorative of the talents of the great man we have lost, it would be candid to tell us so at once. For his part, he saw little difference between the adoption of the amendment and the rejection of every plan proposed that was adequate to the occasion. Sir, said Mr. L., there is not a rich man in Europe who loses his mistress that does not raise a trophy to her memory; and shall it be said that we, who have sustained the most irreparable loss in the death of our Chief—shall it be said that we refuse to pay him those honors which are lavished so liberally upon such inferior objects? If you do not mean to come forward on the occasion, say so. Then we shall understand the reasons of opposition to the ground taken by this House last session. As yet no reasons had been assigned for abandoning it. We then declared that we would act. We exhibited a spirit worthy of the immortal Washington—worthy of the distinguished character of this House.

But should this honorable spirit, kindled by an enthusiasm in the virtues and talents of our departed benefactor, subside and be chilled by the adoption of the proposed amendments, he would condole with the House, and would rather they would be silent for ever than disgrace themselves and their country by so subordinate an act.

It is true, sir, that the celebrity and the glory of Washington hang not on our plaudits. History will transmit to posterity the lustre of his fame, glittering with untarnished purity. It is not in our power either to increase or diminish it. But, sir, we may imitate his virtues and his great example. We are deeply interested in holding them forth as illustrious models to our sons. Is there, then, I ask you, any other mode for perpetuating the memory of such transcendent virtues so strong, so impressive as that which we propose? The grandeur of the pile we wish to raise will impress a sublime awe in all who behold it. It will survive the present generation. It will receive the homage of our children's children; and they will learn that the truest way to gain honor amidst a free people is to be useful, to be virtuous.

This will not be the act of an individual. It will be the act of a Government expressing the will of a great nation. Seize then, I pray you, seize with rapture, the occasion that is now presented, thankful to the Supreme Disposer of events for giving you an opportunity of rearing some future Washington. This is a great object; frown, then, upon all the little efforts made to defeat it.

It is certainly true, that if you erect a mausoleum, you must expend some public money. But are you not the guardians of the public treasure? Does not the selection of the best objects to which to appropriate it devolve on you? And can there be a greater, a more patriotic purpose than this? Is it not your great duty to promote the public good; and can that be more completely promoted in any other way? The sum asked is seventy thousand dollars. Who can show me in what other manner the same good can be effected by so small a sum?

But it is said that the bill vests a discretion in the Secretaries, and they may exceed the estimate. But, sir, are the Secretaries unworthy of confidence? Do not we know that we may safely rely upon them? Besides, if thought expedient, the expenditure may be limited. Thus, surely, without prodigality on the one hand or parsimony on the other, you may do honor to yourselves and your country.

Mr. Macon did not pretend to know much about that kind of things proposed by the bill; but he believed, from the little he did know, that such a thing had not been attempted for a thousand years. The expense attending the proposed measure had been treated lightly. For himself, he was not disposed to consider seventy thousand dollars a trifling sum. He thought it a great sum, and believed every man in the country thought as he did. In forming his idea of any particular sum, he was not carried away by the visionary notions of speculation; he looked at the labor it required to produce it; and he well knew how hardly earned was the money from which this enormous sum must proceed.

He further believed that no man could tell how much the mausoleum would cost. The seventy thousand dollars was only a beginning; and when the object was once begun, experience tells us that we must finish it at all events, let it cost what it might. The base was fixed at a hundred feet. Why not decide its other proportions? Did not the silence of the bill on this point show the ignorance of gentlemen? All was doubt. What strengthened his opinion of the total want of information, was the exhibition last session of two estimates: one of which was predicated on a base of sixty feet, and required sixty-seven thousand dollars; the other was predicated on a base of one hundred feet, making the structure nearly three times as large, and requiring only seventy thousand dollars. Could this be correct? Both estimates certainly could not be true. The probability was that neither could be depended upon.

For what purpose was this great mass to be raised? He saw no good purpose likely to be answered by it under the sun. Can stones show gratitude? If the nation wished to show its gratitude, let them do it by making a history of the life of Washington a school-book. Our children then will learn and imitate his virtues. This will be rendering the highest tribute to his fame, by making it the instrument of enlightening the mind and improving the heart.

While there are such rational modes of distinguishing the memory of Washington, can Congress so far forget the interest of the nation; can they so far forget their own duty, as to expend millions in acts of useless and pernicious ostentation? Since the invention of types, monuments are good for nothing. The records of history will remain long after their decay or destruction.

We are told that the best mode of perpetuating the memory of Washington is to erect a mausoleum. I have heard, said Mr. M., of Aristides, I have heard of Hampden, but I have never heard of monuments raised to their memories. Yet their virtues shine as bright now as they did while they lived. I have heard of a place called Westminster Abbey, full of the monuments of kings; yet, notwithstanding these grand memorials, I have heard very little of them after they left this world, and I question very much whether any man, let him have heard what he may, if he were to go there could tell one of them from the other.

But, it is said that the monument, proposed by the amendment, may be thrown down and destroyed by mobs or schoolboys. God forbid that this should ever be the case! I do not believe, said Mr. M., this to be possible. If it were made of glass, frail as it is, it would be safe; all would revere, all would respect it.

The House is told by one gentleman, who advocates the mausoleum, that a rich man in Europe cannot lose his mistress without raising a monument to her memory. Was the gentleman serious when he made this remark? Would he place the memory of Washington on a footing with that of a rich man's mistress? Better, sir, said Mr. M., far better would it be, more honorable to the Government, and more conformable to the wish of our deceased friend, to devote the seventy thousand dollars, designed for a mausoleum, to the education of the poor. Then, indeed, we might flatter ourselves with having extended the empire of his virtues, by making those understand and imitate them, who, uninstructed, could not comprehend them.

If he thought that by raising a magnificent monument to Washington, he could give duration to his fame, or carry his name into a single country which it had not yet reached, he would give the measure his support. But no such effect would be produced. It might indeed adorn this city; and that was the only plausible argument in favor of it.

Before gentlemen act in this business, let them look to Egypt; there they will behold precedents in profusion; men made gods, and statues and monuments and mausolea covering the whole face of the country; but where will they find the virtues or the talents of the men they were meant to commemorate? Now is the time to make a stand against this monument mania. Washington is admired and beloved by all. No one can be charged with a desire to diminish his fame by opposing a useless expenditure of money. The precedent we now establish will be auspicious to our future measures. If we decline raising a mausoleum to Washington, no man who succeeds him can expect one reared to his memory. On the other hand, if we now raise one to Washington, every pretender to greatness will aim at the same distinction.

Mr. Macon concluded by declaring himself hostile to the bill, and friendly to the amendment, because it proposed a plan that was more rational, more economical, and more conformable to the resolve of the old Congress, than that contained in the bill.

The committee then rose without coming to any decision, reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.

Monday, December 8.

Several other members, to wit: from Connecticut, Chauncey Goodrich, and Samuel W. Dana; and from Rhode Island, John Brown, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

A new member, to wit, Samuel Tenney, returned to serve in this House as a member for New Hampshire, in the room of William Gordon, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat in the House.

Tuesday, December 9.

Another member, to wit, John Rutledge, Jr., from South Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Reporting the Debates.

The House proceeded to consider the report of the committee to whom was referred the memorial of Samuel Harrison Smith and Thomas Carpenter, made yesterday, and which lay on the table; and, the same being again read, in the words following, to wit:

"The committee to whom was referred the memorial of Samuel Harrison Smith and Thomas Carpenter, report the following resolution, which they recommend to the House:

"Resolved, That it is not expedient for this House to make any order upon the subject of the memorial of Samuel Harrison Smith and Thomas Carpenter, presented on the fourth day of December instant."

Mr. Christie moved the reference of the report to a Committee of the Whole.

Mr. Griswold opposed the reference.

The House divided—for the reference 43, against it, 46.

Mr. Jackson made several remarks, and concluded by calling for the yeas and nays, which were ordered.

Mr. Nicholas said, in a Government like ours, the theory of which is republican, and the practice of which he hoped would always continue to be republican, he considered the representatives of the people responsible to the people, by whom they were created. It was necessary, to give efficacy to this responsibility, that the people, who were to judge, should possess the purest information, as to not only the acts, but the motives of the public agents. It was of little consequence to them to know what laws are enacted, compared with a knowledge of projects that were attempted or prevented, and the grounds on which they were supported or opposed. Nor could the merits of the acts themselves be understood, unless the reasons for them were stated. It was, therefore, of the highest consequence that the reasons for our conduct should be clearly understood, that our measures may be comprehended, and our motives also known, that our constituents may judge whether we have faithfully discharged our duty.

Under this view of the subject, he thought it extremely indelicate to resist the admission within the bar of those persons who thought themselves qualified to take the debates and proceedings of the House. But what rendered the attempt still more improper, was, its being an innovation on the practice of the House. For, since he had been a member of the Legislature, individuals of this description had been placed by the House at their ease, in a situation convenient for hearing what passed. Why is this practice, hitherto unopposed, now to be broken in upon? For such an innovation and departure from the established practice of the House, there ought to be the strongest reasons; particularly when the attempted innovation respected, and was made by, those whose conduct was to be scrutinized.

It was not without deliberation that the practice of the House had been instituted and adhered to. Some gentlemen had, some time since, contemplated the employment of a particular individual, whose services were to be paid for by the House. But the idea was abandoned, from the supposed sanction given by such an act to his statements; whereby the House might be made responsible for his accuracy and talents.

The difficulty attending the business he acknowledged to be great. But, for the reasons he had assigned, he thought the House had acted right in forbearing to interfere, further than by merely assigning a convenient place to the stenographers. It was deemed safest to confide the business to persons not known officially to the House, whose own individual interest would constitute the best pledge for their fidelity. Though no precise resolve had been passed to this effect, it was well understood that this was the course the House meant to pursue, after having given the subject a deliberate and solemn consideration.

Shall we now, said Mr. N., after this mature consideration, on the mere suggestion of personal inconvenience, on a subject of such importance as to invite a gentleman from a considerable distance, [referring to some old plan,] shall we, after the sanction of a uniform practice, fortified by the long period for which it has been observed, on the suggestion of a trifling inconvenience, which, he believed, on examination, would not be found to exist at all, adopt the innovation proposed by the report of the committee? For his part, he thought they were all deeply interested in having the debates well taken, as it was not in their power altogether to prohibit their being taken.

He had heard but two objections made to the old plan. The first was, that by passing a resolve admitting stenographers within the bar, the House gave a sanction to the reports published by them. The second was, that as the Speaker had heretofore had the management of the business, it would be wrong to take it out of his hands.

As to the first objection, he thought it altogether incorrect. The resolution, submitted by the gentleman from North Carolina, (Mr. Hill,) which he wished the House to adopt, does not propose the selection of any particular person. It admits, generally, those individuals who wish to take the debates. Can this admission make us responsible for the conduct of men we do not know, and over whom we have no control? Have we heretofore been considered as responsible? And wherein consists the difference between our past situation and the situation we shall be in, if the motion of the gentleman from North Carolina be adopted? We shall then only have done that which before had been done by the Speaker. Governed by a sense of duty, the Speaker had refused admission within the bar. It became, therefore, necessary, in order to admit, for the House to pass a resolution. But it did not follow that the least responsibility would arise from such an act.

Indeed, by admitting the stenographers within the bar, the responsibility of the House would be diminished; for, if the House admitted them, no one could then say that it had done any thing that interfered with a faithful report of the debates; whereas, by excluding the stenographers, the unavoidable inaccuracies committed, might be charged to the House.

The second objection made to the resolution of the gentleman from North Carolina, was that, as the Speaker had heretofore had the management of the business, it would be wrong to take it out of his hands.

Mr. N. in reply to this objection, observed, that the power, heretofore exercised by the Speaker on this subject, had not been expressly delegated to him by the House. It had often been thought of, but no decision had heretofore been made. As the object asked related to the convenience of the members, he thought they were the best judges of the propriety of granting it. The inconvenience alleged to exist was entirely a matter of opinion. He thought it either had no existence or a very limited one. As he had remarked before, the subject was extremely delicate. He would not consent to furnish room for being charged with a wish to suppress the means of making an inquiry into his conduct. He believed that the innovation contended for, would be so viewed; so far, therefore, from considering it as innocent, he viewed it as wrong in itself, and likely to be mischievous in its effects.

Mr. Otis was one of those who was not disposed to make a strong stand against the resolution offered by the gentleman from North Carolina. He did not view the point in so interesting a light as did the gentleman who had preceded him. It appeared to him in the shape of a question of convenience; and as to his own situation, it could not be affected by any permission given to stenographers to come within the bar. Many of the arguments he had heard, implied that the situation at present occupied by the stenographers was exclusive of all others; whereas if that were inconvenient they might take any other, so that they did not come within the bar.

It is true that the stenographers have hitherto been admitted within the bar. They were admitted because there was room. But, in our present chamber, the room was less; nor could they occupy a part of that little, without materially interfering with the convenience of the members.

In his opinion, the proper question for the House to consider was, whether an admission should take place independent of the Speaker, or whether he should decide its propriety. It did not follow, if the Speaker retained the management, that the exclusion would apply to all occasions. It was true, that the places desired by the stenographers were generally assigned to the high Executive officers of the Government, and the foreign Ministers. But if, in consistence with their accommodation, the indulgence could be granted, during any important debate, he had no doubt of the Speaker's readiness to admit them, and they might thus obtain a temporary place within the bar.

Mr. O. thought the remarks of the gentleman from Virginia covered too much ground. They ascribed to the friends of the report an attempt to preclude the people from obtaining all information of what passed in the House. No such design existed. For his part, he wished the people to know every thing that occurred within these walls. There was no doubt of the debates, as heretofore given, being an inadequate organ of the ideas of the members; they had been taken for nearly twelve years, and sometimes they had been accurate, and at other times very inaccurate; and so complete had the distortion of sentiments often been, that had it not been for the name that was attached to a particular speech, the member, to whom it was ascribed, would not have known it to be his. Mr. O. would, notwithstanding, not deny the ability of a person who read the debates, to form a tolerable idea of the arguments used on a particular subject.

The charge of innovation, Mr. O. thought unjust. He proposed to leave the business as it had heretofore been left, free from any resolve of the House, to the control of the Speaker. By this conduct, no sanction would be given to the performances of any reporter; but, on the other hand, if the House passed a resolve, divesting the Speaker of his previous power, they would render themselves responsible, and would virtually give a sanction.

If it were resolved that the House should interfere, he would much rather select and pay an individual competent to the business, and appeal, for the faithful discharge of his trust, to his candor and impartiality.

If the House passed the resolution admitting the stenographers within the bar, Mr. O. asked whether they would not in fact be officers of the House. The only difference between them and the other officers would be that one would be paid and the others would not.

Mr. O. said that, in his opinion, the most inconvenient position in the House had been taken by the stenographers. It was near the Clerk's office, between which and the bar there was a perpetual passage of the members. If an experiment were made of a position on the other side, or in the upper gallery, he was persuaded it would be found very convenient. Are not, said Mr. O., the galleries constructed for the express purpose of hearing? Are they not intended for the good people of the United States? And if they can hear in them, cannot the stenographers also?

Mr. O. concluded by stating the extreme inconvenience that would arise from admitting the stenographers; the interference it would produce with the assignation of seats to the Secretaries of our Government and the foreign Ministers; and with declaring his opinion that it was most expedient to adopt the report of the committee.

Mr. Nicholson said, that if he understood the objections made by the gentleman from Massachusetts to granting an admission of the stenographers within the bar, they might be classed under three heads: 1. It will be against precedent; 2. It would prevent the members from having elbow room; 3. There is a possibility that the Speaker may indulge the stenographers.

As to the first objection, he would ask whether the House had not a right to exercise any power themselves that was exercised by the Speaker. Hitherto the Speaker has exercised the power, and admitted the stenographers within the bar; he now refuses to do it, and we are called upon to perform what he refuses. If we think it proper to admit them, we have a right to do it. The power heretofore exercised by the Speaker was derived from us, according to the well-known maxim, Qui facit per alium, facit per se.

But we are told that the admission would interfere with the accommodation of the four Secretaries and the foreign Ministers. Suppose it should, said Mr. N.; I ask whether the convenience and the interest of the people of the United States are to be prostrated by our complaisance to the Secretaries and foreign agents? It is our duty to enable the people to obtain the best information of what is doing here, that we can supply. Shall we abandon our duty? Shall we sacrifice the interests of our constituents to a sense of politeness to these gentlemen? It would be much better to submit to the inconvenience experienced by the Secretaries and the foreign Ministers, if there is not room for them within the bar, than to conceal from the people the knowledge they have a right to possess. Let, then, the foreign Ministers, if there be such a competition, retire into the galleries.

He considered the subject as of high importance both to the country and the members themselves. They all ought to desire their conduct to be rigidly inspected.

Gentlemen say that the debates have been heretofore imperfectly taken. Will they remedy the evil by excluding the stenographers from places within the bar? If, heretofore, notwithstanding the favorableness of their position, when stillness and silence reigned, they have been unable to take the debates with precision, can it be expected that, driven to a distance from most of the members, surrounded by a crowd in perpetual motion, they will be able more successfully to accomplish their object? Sir, said Mr. N., the expectation is absurd. It cannot be done. I have placed myself without the bar, and I declare it impossible to hear correctly. If, then, you are determined to exclude them from their usual places, you had infinitely better turn them out of the House altogether.

As to the convenience of the galleries for hearing, Mr. N. was not able, from a trial made by himself, to decide upon it. But he had heard but one uniform opinion, which was, that owing to the constant passage of persons, and the frequent crowd it would contain, it was impossible to hear there with any distinctness. With respect to the remarks made by the gentleman from Massachusetts on this point, he thought them altogether inapposite. The gallery was not constructed by us, and if it were a bad place for hearing, it arose not from any fault to be ascribed to us. All that we did was to open our doors to all citizens who conducted themselves with decorum.

The personal inconvenience to members alleged, did not, in the opinion of Mr. N., exist. He thought there was ample room. The chamber they occupied was similar to that in Philadelphia, and the positions desired by the stenographers were relatively the same as those in Philadelphia. By advancing the Clerk's table three feet, every difficulty would be removed.

Mr. Rutledge said, that the members who had preceded him had talked much about the necessity of giving the people correct information of the transactions of that House. He believed there was not a single member who did not wish to impart to the people all the knowledge they could receive, and who did not highly prize the means of information furnished by the proceedings of that House. On this point there was no division. No one was desirous of excluding the stenographers, or prohibiting the publication of debates. The only question really before the House was, whether they should persevere in the old plan; whether they should confide in the integrity and the talents of the Speaker, who had hitherto merited their confidence, or whether, divesting him of his power, they should exercise a right themselves hitherto attached to his office.

Such a mode of procedure as had been pursued on this occasion was not conformable to that heretofore practised. An application somewhat similar had been, some time since, made to the Speaker. The Speaker decided, and the House, without debate, acquiesced in his decision. A stenographer had grossly misrepresented a member, and when required to correct his false statement, had insolently refused to do it, and added to the previous injury of misstatement insult of the most contumelious kind. The Speaker dismissed him from his place for this barefaced misconduct. Some of his friends made an appeal to the House. The House acted wisely, and, with becoming dignity, refused to interpose.

Now, said Mr. R., if any other stenographer, like the one I have alluded to, shall make it his systematic practice to misrepresent, and he continue as heretofore to hold his place at the tenure of the Speaker's permission, he may be dismissed by the Speaker without troubling the House. But should the motion made by the gentleman from North Carolina prevail, we shall be perpetually appealed to, and occupied in debate. For these reasons he trusted the report would be agreed to.

Mr. Hill said he considered the subject as simply involving an address to the sentiments of the members on the ground of personal convenience, and that on that ground he was ready to sacrifice any little inconvenience to the accommodation of the stenographers; stating at the same time his entire reliance upon the integrity and talents of the Speaker.

Mr. Griswold said, this is nothing less than an appeal from the Chair. To the Speaker has heretofore been committed the regulation of the admission of all persons whatever within the bar. This is the only correct mode in which such an object can be accomplished. The Speaker must exercise the discretion hitherto vested in him, otherwise the order of the House cannot be preserved. The object now is to take this power from the Speaker, and to open the area of the House to the stenographers, without the Speaker's approbation. It is said that only two persons at present apply. But if the door be once opened to admission in this way, there may be no end to intrusion. The Speaker being divested of power to act, and the necessity of acting being evident, the House will be perpetually troubled with appeals.

In his opinion, the power confided to the Speaker had been exercised in this case with great propriety. It must be apparent to every body that the area was too small to justify the admission of the stenographers. He believed it to be an idle pretence that the stenographers could not hear. He believed it to be a mere matter of pride, which would be gratified by an appeal from the Chair, and a reversal of the decision of the Speaker by the House.

Mr. Thatcher, persuaded that all the information derived from the debates of this House was of little comparative importance when viewed in relation to the general mass of information possessed by the people, cared but little for the event of the resolution before the House. Upon this ground he felt no anxiety whatever. As a matter of order, it might perhaps be of some importance. As to the convenience of position, he doubted whether a more correct account of the debates could not be given from a situation without the bar than within it. His reasons were these: It was well known that for four or five sessions after the organization of the Federal Government stenographers never came within the bar, and their positions during that period were as remote from the members as at present. Yet if any man would appeal to the debates then taken, he would find them as correctly taken as they have been at any time since. It is true, there were complaints of inaccuracy, but the debate takers never assigned, as a justification of their errors, the inconvenience of their situations; on the contrary, they declared that they did as well as they could, and contended that their reports were as correct as the nature of the case permitted.

When the seat of Government was transferred to Philadelphia, and the stenographers occupied places within the bar, complaints increased, the debates were taken more incorrectly, and two or three of the stenographers were actually turned out of the area within the bar; one of whom, he believed, was sent into the upper gallery.

The incorrectness of the published debates did not arise so much from an inability to hear as from an inability to take down a rapid speech.

Mr. T. said he believed the debates as taken down by Mr. Lloyd, were as accurately taken as any taken before or since. The conclusion he drew from these facts was, that if the stenographers were admitted by the House within the bar, the public would gain nothing by it. He had, however, no objection to their admission, if the Speaker approved it. They might, as far as he cared, take any place in the House; even seats alongside of the Speaker.

Mr. Davis had expected to hear substantial reasons in support of the report of the committee. None such had been offered. It was said that the stenographers could hear very well from their present positions. He denied it. The reporter could not possibly hear. Though himself nearer the gentleman, he had not heard a word that fell from the gentleman from North Carolina.

He trusted the House would admit the stenographers within the bar. If not admitted, the conversation and passage of the members around them will at once prevent the debates from being well taken, and be a perpetual excuse for their errors. But if admitted, they will have no such apology, and they will be within the power of the House.

The great mass of our citizens are too remote to attend your debates. They rely on those who report them. Not more than forty or fifty persons transiently appear in the galleries, who are not equal to diffusing a knowledge of your proceedings. Exclude the stenographers, and you may as well shut your doors. It may be said that you print your journals; but who reads them? They are scarcely read by the members themselves. On great national questions the people ought to know, not only what you do, but also the principles that guide you.

The gentleman from South Carolina was willing to place the stenographers under the coercion of the Speaker, but was unwilling to place them under the coercion of the House. For his part, he thought differently. He did not wish to see them at the mercy of the Speaker.

Several allusions had been made to the treatment of a reporter at Philadelphia, who had been driven from the House by the Speaker. He recollected the affair, and, in his opinion, the Speaker had in this case been actuated more by personal enmity, than by any other motive.

Mr. H. Lee next rose. He said he put it upon the candor of his colleague from Virginia to declare whether, in his opinion, any gentleman in that House wished to suppress his sentiments, or was disposed to shrink from an avowal of them. If an individual were to judge from the debate of to-day he would infer that it was the desire of some members on that floor to conceal their sentiments from the people. No such thing was the case. We are as anxious as those who differ with us that the people should know what we think, say, and do.

The only question was, whether the Speaker shall exercise a certain power which he can conveniently, and which he has hitherto honorably exercised, or whether we shall assume it with all its inconveniences. He hoped we should not. He feared no inaccuracy so long as the debates published received no sanction from the House.

Have you, said Mr. L., no greater objects to engage your attention than whether this man or that man shall go out of your bar, or remain within it? He thought the House might be better employed.

Mr. Macon understood the subject before the House very much as his colleague did. The question was simply whether we will take upon ourselves inconveniences alleged to exist, or keep the stenographers without the bar. He was convinced that the situations occupied by the stenographers were badly calculated for hearing, as even within the bar the members could scarcely hear each other.

One reason had great weight with him. It was, that if the House made a rule in relation to the admission of the stenographers, it would be placing law in the room of discretion. He preferred a certain rule to a vague discretion.

The danger apprehended from a crowd of stenographers was farcical. Since he had been in Congress he had never seen more than three or four. And if the number admitted should prove inconvenient, it would be time enough, when the inconvenience was experienced, to remedy it.

Mr. S. Smith said the question was entirely one of inconvenience. He would not ascribe to any member a desire to suppress his sentiments. The speeches never went forth as delivered. Yet it was desirable to assign to the stenographers the most convenient places. He had heard gentlemen on both sides of the chair declare they would experience no inconvenience from the admission of the stenographers. For himself, from his situation, he could experience none. He believed, indeed, that the members could be heard from any part of the House, and nearly as well in one place as in another. But as other gentlemen hold a different opinion, and the stenographers had hitherto been admitted within the bar, he had not the least objection, and would vote for their admission.

In this stage of the debate, the Speaker arose, not, he said, to inquire into the consequences of the House acting in the business, but again to repeat the line of conduct he had pursued, and the motives which had influenced his conduct; he did this for the information of members not in the House at the time he had before addressed the House. The Speaker then repeated what he had before stated, viz: that on being appealed to by Mr. Stewart, he had declared to him his decision before any other application had been made; that he had spoken to many members, all of whom, without a single exception, had approved his ideas, and concluded with again declaring, as he had before declared, that the stenographers could not be admitted within the bar without violating the order of the House and the convenience of the members. It was, he said, for the House to decide—to them only was he responsible.

Mr. Nicholas understood it to be the object of those who supported the admission of the stenographers within the bar to place them upon the same footing they had heretofore held. This was his object. All the remarks, therefore, made respecting their independence of the Chair, were inapplicable. They would still be subject to his control, except as to the single point of situation. In short, the business would be restored to its old form.

His colleague had made an appeal to his candor. He wished to know whether he (Mr. N.) thought that he or any other gentleman in that House wished to suppress his sentiments, or was disposed to shrink from an avowal of them? He would answer the appeal made by his colleague, and would tell him that he did not feel himself at liberty to form conjectures respecting the opinions of others, but decided from facts. If he heard gentlemen make use of arguments so weak as those he had heard that day in defence of their sentiments, he would say that their feelings differed essentially from his. He would say that, judging them by their arguments, they do not wish publicity to be given to the debates of this House.

What do the gentlemen tell us? Does it not amount to this: that their complaisance for the Speaker suffers him to judge for them in a case where they are the best judges; and would not this complaisance go to this length, that if the Speaker should judge wrong, they will not interfere to correct his error?

We are told by a gentleman just up, that the application made proceeds from pride, and that it can proceed from nothing else. But the gentleman has not assigned his reasons for this extraordinary charge.

It is contended that any place without the bar will be convenient for the stenographers. Let the place be pointed out. Let the gentlemen who urge this show us a place without the bar inaccessible to the whispers of the members and the pressure of a crowd. Do they imagine that any particular place can be assigned to which they can ensure a profound silence, and from which every person can be withheld? Do they not know, have they not experienced, that when business presses, when subjects of importance are discussed, a crowd is produced, noise ensues, and interposing obstacles render it impossible either to hear or see the members? In such cases, by far the most interesting that can occur, a recess within the bar can be their only protection.

The gentleman from Massachusetts had put the business upon a very extraordinary footing—a footing that he did not expect from him. He represented that it would be safe to trust the reporters to the Speaker's indulgence. For his part, he did not think it would be safe in such hands. Shall the Speaker have the discretion of saying what debates shall be taken and what shall not? Shall he, and he only, have the public ear? Could the Speaker desire this? Surely he could not. He ought rather to desire the House to decide generally than thus impose upon him such an invidious task.

Mr. N. said, he considered those who report the debates as appearing in this House on behalf of the people of the United States, to whom they communicated what passed here. The people were entitled to this information; and if, as observed by the gentleman from Massachusetts, either foreign Ministers or Secretaries, or any other gentleman in long robes, interfered with such an object, they ought to give way. He knew not wherein consisted the propriety of assigning them particular seats. What right had they to exclusive seats? He knew no connection that subsisted between them and this House. Be the right as it may, he was not for sacrificing a solid benefit to mere complaisance.

But a gentleman has told us that one stenographer, for his misrepresentation and insolence, had been discharged by the Speaker. In the course of debate, Mr. N. said, he had studiously avoided any allusion to this circumstance. Nor would he now say any thing about it, as he thought it altogether foreign from the present question.

The respect which gentlemen expressed for the Speaker appeared to him to lead them from the object they professed to have in view. For, at present, the stenographers are not under the control of the Speaker. But admit them within the bar, and if they are guilty of misconduct, if they infringe any of the rules of the House, the Speaker has them within his power.

Some gentlemen apprehend the admission of a crowd of stenographers. The thing is morally impossible. When Congress met in a large populous city, where several daily papers were printed, we saw but two reporters. Here, removed from the busy world, where the demand for that description of labor which arose from publishing the debates was not nearly so great, and, of consequence, the profit less, it could not be expected that there could be more.

Mr. N. concluded by declaring that, in his opinion, it was the duty of the House to decide in this case. The Speaker had changed the established practice of the House. It became, therefore, the House to inquire whether he had done what he ought to have done; which, if he had omitted to do, it devolved on them to see effected.

Mr. Waln spoke in favor of the adoption of the report.

The question was then taken by yeas and nays, on agreeing to the report of the select committee, and carried by the casting vote of the Speaker. There being yeas 45, nays 45, as follows:

Yeas.—Theodore Sedgwick, (Speaker,) George Baer, Bailey Bartlett, John Bird, John Brown, Christopher G. Champlin, William Cooper, William Craik, Samuel W. Dana, John Davenport, Franklin Davenport, John Dennis, William Edmond, Thomas Evans, Abiel Foster, Jonathan Freeman, Henry Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich, Elizur Goodrich, Roger Griswold, William Barry Grove, Archibald Henderson, Benjamin Huger, James H. Imlay, John Wilkes Kittera, Henry Lee, Silas Lee, James Linn, Lewis R. Morris, Harrison G. Otis, Robert Page, Josiah Parker, Jonas Platt, Levin Powell, John Read, Nathan Read, John Rutledge, jr., John C. Smith, Samuel Tenney, George Thatcher, John Chew Thomas, Richard Thomas, Peleg Wadsworth, Robert Waln, Lemuel Williams, and Henry Woods.

Nays.—Willis Alston, Theodorus Bailey, Phanuel Bishop, Robert Brown, Gabriel Christie, Matthew Clay, William C. C. Claiborne, John Condit, Thomas T. Davis, John Dawson, George Dent, Joseph Dickson, Joseph Eggleston, Lucas Elmendorph, Samuel Goode, Edwin Gray, Andrew Gregg, John A. Hanna, Joseph Heister, William H. Hill, David Holmes, George Jackson, James Jones, Aaron Kitchell, Michael Leib, Nathaniel Macon, Peter Muhlenberg, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Joseph H. Nicholson, John Randolph, John Smilie, John Smith, Samuel Smith, Richard Dobbs Spaight, Richard Stanford, David Stone, Thomas Sumter, Benjamin Taliaferro, John Thompson, Abram Trigg, John Trigg, Lyttleton W. Tazewell, Philip Van Cortlandt, and Joseph B. Varnum.

Wednesday, December 10.

Another member, to wit, Matthew Lyon, from Vermont, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Mausoleum to Washington.

The House went into a Committee of the Whole on the bill for erecting a Mausoleum to the memory of George Washington.

Mr. Alston was in hopes, when he first made the motion now under consideration, that a question would have been taken upon the amendment without debate; but, as his wish upon that subject had not been complied with, he held it to be his duty to give to the House the reasons which actuated him.

He said that he by no means wished to detract any thing from the merit of that illustrious character whose memory we were now about to perpetuate; that it was his wish that his character might be handed to the latest posterity unimpaired, and that he really thought the amendment equally calculated to effect that desirable purpose with the bill; that the difference of expense was a matter of importance to the people of this country; that the expense of a mausoleum, from the best information he had been able to collect, would amount to at least 150 or $200,000; that a monument, such as was contemplated by the amendment, would not cost more than one tenth as much as a mausoleum, as contemplated by the bill as it now stood. Indeed, he believed that the bare expense of interring the remains of General Washington in a mausoleum would cost as much as the proposed monument.

Mr. A. said he considered Congress pledged, as far as the resolution of the last session went; that the gentleman from Massachusetts, (Mr. Otis,) who was up a few day ago upon this subject, had requested information; in answer to which he had only to observe that if that gentleman would have given himself the trouble to have examined the proceedings of the last session of Congress he would have been better informed than he appeared to be; that a committee equally respectable with that which had reported the bill at the present time, had then fully investigated the subject, and had made a report, which was to be found upon the journals of the last session of Congress, recommending a monument such as was contemplated by the proposed amendment, and that the request made by the President of the United States to Mrs. Washington, in conformity to the report of that committee, was for a monument; to which request she had consented; he, therefore, considered Congress as pledged thus far and no farther; that a motion was made in this House to change the monument to a mausoleum; that the recent death of General Washington at that time, prevented any person from opposing any measure which was offered, let the expense be what it would; but that the time which had elapsed since, had enabled the public mind the better to judge.

The gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Lee) and the gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. Griswold) had dwelt a great deal upon the subject of public gratitude. It was by no means his wish or intention to lessen that sentiment, but he said that he could not give his consent to an expensive measure like that contemplated in the bill, when a measure far less expensive, in his opinion, would answer every purpose as well.

Mr. Alston was followed by Mr. Huger, who advocated the erection of a mausoleum.

Mr. Smilie replied. He considered the erection of a mausoleum as productive of unnecessary expense, as a monument would answer every rational purpose contemplated in the bill.

Mr. H. Lee next spoke at some length in favor of a mausoleum, and read a letter received from Mr. King, our Ambassador at London enclosing a plan, presented to him by an eminent foreign artist, for a mausoleum of one hundred and fifty feet base, and the same height, the expense of which was estimated at $170,000.

Mr. Champlin, after some remarks, moved that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again.

Which motion being carried without a division, the committee rose; and on the question to grant them leave to sit again, only three members rose in the affirmative.

Mr. Champlin then moved the recommitment of the bill to the same committee that reported it, with the addition of two members, which was carried, and Messrs. Claiborne and Champlin appointed.

After Mr. Champlin's motion for a recommitment of the bill to a select committee was carried,

Mr. Claiborne said he had risen to move that the committee just appointed be instructed to inquire into the expediency of carrying into effect a resolution passed by the old Congress, on the 7th of August, 1783, directing an equestrian statue of General Washington to be erected at the place where the residence of Congress shall be established.

Mr. C. said, that on a question which could not fail to excite the sensibility of every American heart, it was a subject of great regret that a division of sentiment should arise. The memory of our departed patriot lives in the affections of a grateful country, and will triumph over time. During a long life, so usefully and honorably employed, Washington had reared to himself a fabric of fame, the lustre of which can neither be diminished nor heightened by any measure that we can take. But, sir, from a respect for our own, as well as for the feelings of the nation, we should endeavor to unite in the last act of attention which we propose to show this venerable character.

Mr. C. said that the proposition for a mausoleum was calculated to create division. The expense of such a monument would be immense, and would be viewed by many as a profuse and useless expenditure of the public money. He believed that the statue recommended by the old Congress could be better justified upon principles of economy, and would meet with more general support. Here Mr. C. read from the journals of the old Congress the following resolutions:

"Resolved, (unanimously, ten States being present,) That an equestrian statue of General Washington be erected at the place where the residence of Congress shall be established.

"Resolved, That the statue be of bronze—the General to be represented in a Roman dress, holding a truncheon in his right hand, and his head encircled with a laurel wreath. The statue to be supported by a marble pedestal, on which are to be represented, in basso relievo, the following principal events of the war, in which General Washington commanded in person, viz: The evacuation of Boston—the capture of the Hessians at Trenton—the battle of Princeton—the action of Monmouth—and the surrender of York. On the upper part of the front of the pedestal, to be engraved as follows: 'The United States in Congress assembled ordered this statue to be erected, in the year of our Lord, 1783, in honor of George Washington, the illustrious Commander-in-chief of the Armies of the United States of America, during the war which vindicated and secured their liberty, sovereignty, and independence."'

A monument thus designed, (continued Mr. C.,) would portray in lively colors the military achievements of our late illustrious Chief, and is calculated to impress upon our posterity a grateful recollection of his eminent services. Mr. C. was the more interested in support of a monument of this kind, because it had been sanctioned by a unanimous vote of those venerable philosophers and statesmen who presided in our councils, at a time of the greatest danger, directed the storm of war, and tamed the rage of tyranny.

It was true, that this equestrian statue would not express any of the great events of Washington's civil life, but, of these, we have already many honorable testimonials; the first in order, and which he hoped would be the last in durability, was the Constitution of the United States; to this instrument his name was annexed, and would be noticed with gratitude by the lovers of freedom in every age and every clime; this city is another memento of his civil life, and, if it should be the residence of all that piety, wisdom, and magnanimity, which was so devoutly prayed for by each branch of the Legislature, at the commencement of the present session, this city would remain an honorable testimonial of the civil virtues of its great founder.

There was no doubt, said Mr. C., but that many gentlemen were also solicitous that the body of General Washington should be deposited within the walls of the Capitol; of this number Mr. C. was one, and was desirous that a plain but neat apartment should be speedily prepared for its reception. But over his remains, instead of an expensive monument, Mr. C. thought it most advisable to place a plain but neat tomb-stone, of American marble, and prepared by an American artist. And in order to convey to posterity, in impressive language, the feelings of the American nation, when the loss of our patriot, sage, and hero, was first announced, Mr. C. wished to see engraved upon this tomb the addresses of each House of Congress upon this occasion to the President of the United States, together with the President's replies thereto.

Mr. C. concluded by moving the instructions stated in the commencement of his speech.

Mr. Claiborne was followed by Messrs. Craik and Nott.

The instruction to the committee, moved by Mr. Claiborne, with a slight modification, was agreed to.

Monday, December 15.

Another member, to wit, Thomas Pinckney, from South Carolina, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Thursday, December 18.

Another member, to wit, James Sheafe, from New Hampshire, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Friday, December 19.

Mausoleum to Washington.

Mr. H. Lee, from the committee to whom was referred the several propositions made commemorative of the services of George Washington, reported a bill for the erection of a mausoleum, differing in no other respects from the former bill reported, except as to the materials of which the mausoleum is to be constructed; the present bill directing it to be made of stone, the former one directing it to be made of marble. He said that the committee, after maturely considering the relative merits of all the plans proposed, had preferred the mausoleum, as well from its superior durability as cheapness, to any other.

Tuesday, December 23.

Mausoleum to Washington.

Mr. H. Lee moved the going into a Committee of the Whole on the bill for erecting a mausoleum to George Washington.

On this question the House divided—yeas 42, nays 34.

Mr. Morris took the chair, and read the bill by paragraphs.

Mr. H. Lee said the merits of the bill had been so often discussed, and the subject was so delicate, that he would not again offer his sentiments generally on it. As it was the opinion of several members, that the dimensions of the mausoleum should not be fixed in the law, but that they should be governed by the sum appropriated, he moved to strike out "100 feet at the base and of proportionate dimensions."

The motion was agreed to.

Mr. H. Lee then moved an amendment confining the ground on which the mausoleum should be erected to public property.

Mr. Harper opposed the amendment, which was lost, only 31 members rising in favor of it.

Mr. H. Lee then moved to fill the blank, fixing the sum to be appropriated for erecting the mausoleum, with $200,000.

Mr. Smilie said he hoped the House would not with its eyes open go into a measure that might involve incalculable expense. It was proposed to appropriate $200,000. This was probably but a small part of what would be ultimately required; and when the thing was once begun, it must be completed, cost what it would. If the architect would give security for accomplishing the work for $200,000 he would not be so much opposed to it. But, as it stood, he was opposed to it, as a useless expenditure of public money.

Mr. Harper said the old story was again rung in their ears. An object, in itself highly important, was proposed, and, forsooth, because it cost some money, on the ground of economy it must be rejected.

He would ask the gentleman just up whether he knew any thing about the expense of a mausoleum? And yet not professing to be informed, professing indeed to know little, he had put his vague conjectures in the room of estimates formed with deliberation by artists of the first eminence. These clamorous objections were well understood. Their sole object was ad captandum vulgus; to create alarm about what was termed useless expense. They were intended for nothing else.

To satisfy the solicitude of gentlemen an artist of talents universally acknowledged had been desired to furnish an estimate; which estimate stated that a pyramid of 100 feet base would cost $67,000. This was the estimate of an artist of such accuracy that in the greatest work ever undertaken in America, and the greatest, perhaps, of its kind, ever undertaken in the world, (he alluded to the water works of Philadelphia,) the expense actually incurred had fallen short of the estimate. The same accuracy had characterized his plan and execution of the Bank of Pennsylvania, which was probably the greatest work of the kind executed in this country. And yet the gentleman from Pennsylvania will place his vague doubts, and (Mr. Harper begged pardon for the expression) his total want of knowledge against the calculations of a man of practical science.

The gentleman had asked whether any one could be found, who would be responsible for the execution of the work for the proposed sum. Mr. Harper said, if it were proper for a member of that House to say so, he would undertake himself to erect a mausoleum of 150 feet base, and 150 feet high, for $200,000; and for the performance of his engagement he could give the most unquestionable security, such as every member of that House would approve. He further believed that the artist before alluded to, if required, would give the necessary security. The accuracy of the estimate had been tested by every circumstance that the nature of the case admitted. The same course had been pursued, in this case, that every reasonable man was accustomed to take in his own private concerns. Every such individual, who designed building a house obtained first an estimate from a skilful workman, which satisfied him. If men acted not in this way, there could be no progress in human improvements.