FOURTH CONGRESS.—SECOND SESSION. (continued 5)

He thought it more candid and fair to have both the objects before the Senate at one time than to separate them. If they think it an attack upon their privileges they would act consistently therewith.

Mr. Williams could not see where the difference was, whether the bills were apart or not. He was sorry any jealousy should be discovered towards another branch; if the amendment were to go to the Senate they had power to reject any part. The next Congress would take a view of the subject, and do what they thought right, as the frigates would not be fit to be manned till then.

Mr. Buck again repeated his objections to uniting the bills.

Mr. N. Smith thought there could be no good reasons for uniting the bills. There had not yet been any appropriation made, and the money was nearly expended; he thought the appropriation should be passed immediately, as he had no doubt but both Houses would ultimately unite in this object. If, therefore, any money was to be appropriated, let it be done, and then if the House thought proper to agree to the repeal, it could be done, as no delay ought to be made.

The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Gallatin) said the other day, that he would not, under any situation, vote the supply until he knew whether there was any intention to fit them for sea or not. This, Mr. S. thought the principal point; but except that gentleman, with others, thought the ships were to remain in the same situation as at present, it certainly was necessary to agree to the appropriations; this was voted on all hands, though some could not agree to go all lengths. He did not believe many could be found in the House who would wish them to remain and rot on the stocks; but for gentlemen to say they would not agree to grant the supply except the other part was repealed, he thought wrong. It was true, they had the power to withhold even appropriations for the President's salary, Senate, &c., but if such opposition was supported, Government could not long exist. That House had power over the Senate, and, vice versa, the Senate over that House—each had a right to think and do as they pleased, but it would be wrong in one to curtail the privilege of the other by an ill-timed opposition; this was merely to show a spleen which could not but be to the detriment and delay of business.

Mr. W. Smith rose to answer some observations made by Mr. Gallatin and Mr. Venable, and proceeded to show the impropriety of tacking the bills; he said it would produce insurmountable difficulties. He never could agree to this tortus discordans being sent up to the Senate.

Mr. Venable answered. The question was then put for tacking the two bills, and carried, ayes 41, noes 36.

The committee then rose, and the House took up the amendments reported by the Committee of the Whole. Whereupon, the first amendment reported by the Committee of the Whole House, for adding a new section, to be the second section of the said bill, being read, in the words following, to wit:

"And be it further enacted, That the sum of —— dollars be, and the same is hereby appropriated for the purpose of finishing the frigates now building, called the United States, Constitution, and Constellation; and that the same be paid out of the surplus of revenue and income, which may accrue to the end of the year one thousand seven hundred and ninety-seven, after satisfying the objects for which appropriations have been heretofore made."

Mr. W. Smith said, as the question would first be taken on the amendment and then upon the resolution as amended, a member who wished to vote for the finishing of the frigates, but not for the repeal, would not have an opportunity of showing his sentiments by the yeas and nays. In order that members who thought with him might have an opportunity of showing their vote, he called for the previous question upon the proposition.

The Speaker declaring that this motion was not in order, Mr. W. Smith called for the yeas and nays upon the amendment.

Mr. Sitgreaves said, rather than not obtain an appropriation for finishing the frigates, he should vote in favor of the amendment, though he was of the same opinion with the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. W. Smith) as to the unfairness of the proceeding.

Mr. Dent was of the same opinion.

Mr. Muhlenberg said as the amendment stood annexed to the other bill, he should vote against it; though, if the subject had continued in a separate bill, he should have voted in favor of it.

The question was then taken on the amendment, and decided in the affirmative, 59 to 25, as follows:

Yeas.—Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, David Bard, Thomas Blount, Nathan Bryan, Dempsey Burges, Thomas Claiborne, John Clopton, Joshua Coit, Isaac Coles, William Cooper, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, William Findlay, Jesse Franklin, Nathaniel Freeman, jr., Albert Gallatin, Ezekiel Gilbert, James Gillespie, Henry Glenn, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, Carter B. Harrison, John Hathorn, Jonathan N. Havens, James Holland, Andrew Jackson, John Wilkes Kittera, George Leonard, Edward Livingston, Matthew Locke, Samuel Lyman, William Lyman, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, James Madison, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, John Patton, John Richards, Robert Rutherford, John S. Sherburne, Samuel Sitgreaves, Thompson J. Skinner, Jeremiah Smith, Israel Smith, Isaac Smith, Richard Sprigg, jr., Thomas Sprigg, Zephaniah Swift, Philip Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, Abraham Venable, John Williams, and Richard Winn.

Nays.—Theophilus Bradbury, Daniel Buck, Samuel W. Dana, James Davenport, George Ege, Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley, John Heath, William Hindman, Francis Malbone, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, Josiah Parker, John Read, Samuel Sewall, Nathaniel Smith, Samuel Smith, William Smith, John Swanwick, George Thatcher, and Peleg Wadsworth.

The bill was then recommitted to a Committee of the Whole, in order to have the blank for the sum to be appropriated for finishing the vessels inserted, and was filled with $172,000.

Tuesday, February 21.

Negotiation with the Mediterranean Powers.

Mr. W. Smith moved that the House should go into a committee on the business, which would require the galleries to be closed; the Speaker accordingly put the question for going into a Committee of the Whole on the bill to authorize a negotiation with the Mediterranean Powers, which, being carried, the galleries were cleared accordingly.

After the galleries were cleared, the bill was agreed to with amendments, and ordered for a third reading to-morrow.

On motion that the House come to the following resolution:

"Resolved, That the injunction of secrecy upon the members of this House, so far as it relates to that part of the communication made by the President, by his Message of January 9, which has been printed, be taken off, and that all future debates and proceedings thereon be had with open doors."

A motion was made to insert, after the words "be taken off," "together with the letter of Messrs. Barlow and Donaldson, of April 5, 1796." The question on the amendment was taken by yeas and nays, and lost—yeas 19, nays 65.

The main question was then taken by yeas and nays, and resulted—yeas 53, nays 36.

Reports of the Secretary of State, relative to the present situation of affairs with the Dey and Regency of Algiers, accompanying the following confidential Message from the President of the United States, received the 9th of January, 1797:

Gentlemen of the Senate, and of the House of Representatives:

Herewith I lay before you, in confidence, reports from the Departments of State and the Treasury, by which you will see the present situation of our affairs with the Dey and Regency of Algiers.

G. WASHINGTON.

United States, January 9, 1797.

To the President of the United States, the Secretary of State respectfully makes the following brief representation of the affairs of the United States, in relation to Algiers:

When Colonel Humphreys left America, in April, 1795, he was accompanied by Joseph Donaldson, Esq., who had been appointed Consul for Tunis and Tripoli; and him Colonel Humphreys was authorized to employ in negotiating a Treaty with Algiers, while he should proceed himself to France, for the purpose of obtaining the co-operation of that Government in this negotiation.

They arrived at Gibraltar on the 17th of May. Colonel Humphreys concluded that it was expedient for Mr. Donaldson to go first to Alicant, rather than Algiers, in order to be near at hand, to ascertain facts and profit of occasions. He gave him instructions accordingly; and having also instructed Mr. Simpson, our Consul at Gibraltar, to renew our peace with the Emperor of Morocco, Colonel Humphreys sailed from Gibraltar the 24th of May, and arrived at Havre de Grace on the 26th of June; from whence he set off immediately for Paris. The object of his mission was communicated by our Minister, Colonel Monroe, to the Committee of Public Safety. On the 1st of July he had received only a verbal answer, that the French Government was disposed to interest itself, and to do every thing in its power, to promote the accomplishment of our wishes on the subject in question. On the 28th, assurances were received that immediate measures should be taken for giving particular instructions to the agents of the Republic, to use its influence in co-operating with us. The multiplicity of affairs with which the officers of Government were occupied, and the getting from London a sum of money necessary to purchase the usual peace presents, prevented a conclusion of this arrangement at Paris until September. It had been judged expedient, by Colonel Humphreys and Colonel Monroe, that Joel Barlow should be employed in the negotiation with the Barbary States, and his consent had been obtained. By the 11th of September, all the writings on the part of Colonel Humphreys were prepared for Mr. Barlow, to proceed with the instructions and powers from the Government of the French Republic to its agents in Barbary, in favor of our negotiation.

Colonel Humphreys left Paris the 12th of September, and reached Havre the 14th, where he found the master and mate of the United States brig Sophia, both sick with fevers. While waiting there impatiently for their recovery, he received intelligence from our Consul at Marseilles, that Mr. Donaldson had concluded a Treaty of Peace with the Dey of Algiers; nevertheless, Colonel Humphreys thought it expedient that Mr. Barlow should proceed with the presents prepared and preparing at Paris; for, if not needed at Algiers, they would be wanted in the negotiation with Tunis and Tripoli.

About the 5th of October, Colonel Humphreys sailed from Havre, and after a stormy passage of more than forty days, arrived at Lisbon on the 17th of November. There he found Captain O'Brien, who had arrived about the 1st of October, with the Treaty with Algiers.

On the 3d of September Mr. Donaldson arrived at Algiers, and on the 5th the Treaty was concluded, and the peace presents immediately given, by a loan. Mr. Donaldson, knowing that funds had been lodged in London to answer his stipulations, engaged to make the payments in three or four months.

Colonel Humphreys had received advice, under date of the 30th July, from the Messrs. Barings, in London, to whom the funds had been remitted, that, having made progress in the sales of the United States' stock, they should hold, at his disposal, the whole of the value of $800,000, meaning to furnish, by anticipation, the value of that part which remained unsold, if the service of the United States required it. Colonel Humphreys, counting on the money as always ready after this period, sent Captain O'Brien from Lisbon to London, in the brig Sophia, to receive it. Owing to contrary winds, she did not leave Lisbon till the 24th of December. The other details, relative to the pecuniary transactions, appear in the report of the Secretary of the Treasury.

The disappointments in the pecuniary negotiations, put the Treaty in jeopardy; the Dey threatened to abandon it, and it was with extreme difficulty that it was prevented. Mr. Barlow did not arrive at Alicant until February, 1796, where he proposed to wait the arrival of the funds: but, after a little time, his intelligence from Algiers showing that our affairs were in a critical situation, he determined to go thither immediately, with the hope of soothing the Dey. He arrived there the 4th of March; they had before prolonged the time to the 8th of April for the payment of the stipulated sums. On the 3d of this month the Dey declared what should be his final determination—that in eight days Mr. Barlow and Mr. Donaldson should leave Algiers; and if, in thirty days after, the money was not paid, the Treaty should be at an end, and his cruisers should bring in American vessels. Under these circumstances, and as the last hope of saving the Treaty, they were induced to offer the present of a frigate—this fortunately succeeded. For the particulars of this transaction, the Secretary begs leave to refer to the enclosed letter from Messrs. Barlow and Donaldson.

Colonel Humphreys not deeming himself authorized to confirm this promise of a frigate, referred the matter to the Executive of the United States; and for this end despatched Captain O'Brien, in the brig Sophia, to America. There was evidently no alternative; and the promise was confirmed.

The frigate is now building in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and is expected to be finished in the spring. Captain O'Brien returned to Lisbon, where he arrived on the —— of July. Colonel Humphreys had advantageously negotiated bills on London for $225,000. This sum was embarked on board the Sophia, and, on the 3d of August, Captain O'Brien set sail for Algiers. He has not since been heard of, and there is room to fear that some misfortune has befallen him. The money was insured at a small premium, against the danger of the seas; against all risks they demanded so high a premium as Colonel Humphreys judged it inexpedient to give, seeing the Sophia was a vessel of the United States, having a special passport from the President, as well as a passport in the Turkish language, under the seal of the Dey of Algiers.

Such arrangements have been made by Mr. Barlow and Mr. Donaldson, at Algiers and Leghorn, as will doubtless insure the payment of the $400,000 originally expected from the latter place; and the same house have become engaged to the Dey and Regency for the residue of the money due as the price of peace, without which he would not agree to the redemption of the captives.

The Secretary of the Treasury estimates

these further sums to be provided to fulfil

the terms of the Treaty$255,759

For two years' annuities to the Dey99,246

To which are to be added the 10,000

sequins promised by Mr. Barlow and Mr.

Donaldson, mentioned in their letter18,000

And the expenses of the captives performing

quarantine at Marseilles, and transporting

them to America, estimated by

the Consul at Marseilles, at about6,500

———

379,505

On the 31st ultimo I received a letter from Mr. Barlow, dated the 13th of July, informing that the agent, Mr. Famin, at Tunis, who had been recommended to him by the French Consul Herculias, had concluded, with the Bey of that Regency, a truce for six months, from the 15th day of June last, and that without any presents.

TIMOTHY PICKERING, Secretary of State.

Department of State, January 6, 1797.

Wednesday, February 22.

Mediterranean Powers.

The bill for making appropriations to defray the expense of negotiations with Mediterranean powers, was also read the third time. The provisions of this act, (which has been the subject of the various discussions which have lately taken place with closed galleries) are to the following effect:

"That the President of the United States be, and he is hereby authorized to apply a sum not exceeding 255,759 dollars and three cents, to the expenses which may have been incurred in any negotiations with Mediterranean powers, beyond the sums heretofore appropriated; and that the said sum of 255,759 dollars and three cents, be, and the same is hereby appropriated for that purpose; and that a further sum not exceeding 96,246 dollars and 63 cents, be, and the same is hereby appropriated for discharging the two first years' annuity to the Dey and Regency of Algiers, pursuant to treaty, in addition to the gum appropriated for that purpose by the act of the sixth of May, 1796."

On the question being put that the bill do pass, Mr. Greenup said he never liked the bill in any shape whatever; he would therefore express it now. He then called for the yeas and nays, which were taken, and stood ayes 63, noes 19, as follow:

Yeas.—Fisher Ames, Abraham Baldwin, Theophilus Bradbury, Nathan Bryan, Daniel Buck, Dempsey Burges, Thomas Claiborne, Joshua Coit, Isaac Coles, William Cooper, James Davenport, Henry Dearborn, George Dent, George Ege, William Findlay, Dwight Foster, Jesse Franklin, Nathaniel Freeman, jr., Albert Gallatin, Ezekiel Gilbert, Henry Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, Robert Goodloe Harper, Carter B. Harrison, Thomas Hartley, Jonathan N. Havens, Thomas Henderson, William Hindman, Aaron Kitchell, John Wilkes Kittera, George Leonard, Matthew Locke, Samuel Lyman, James Madison, Francis Malbone, John Milledge, Andrew Moore, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, John Nicholas, Alexander D. Orr, John Page, Josiah Parker, Elisha R. Potter, John Richards, Robert Rutherford, John S. Sherburne, Samuel Sitgreaves, Thompson J. Skinner, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Israel Smith, Isaac Smith, Richard Sprigg, jr., Thomas Sprigg, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, Richard Thomas, Mark Thompson, Philip Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Williams.

Nays.—David Bard, Thomas Blount, Samuel J. Cabell, Gabriel Christie, John Clopton, James Gillespie, Christopher Greenup, John Hathorn, John Heath, James Holland, Andrew Jackson, George Jackson, William Lyman, Samuel Maclay, Nathaniel Macon, William Strudwick, John Swanwick, Abraham Venable, and Richard Winn.

On motion of Mr. Gallatin, the title was changed to "a bill to authorize the President of the United States to apply further sums to defray the expenses of the negotiation with the Dey and Regency of Algiers."[11]

John Cleves Symmes.

On motion of Mr. Gallatin, the House took up the bill in addition to an act for granting certain lands to John Cleves Symmes and his associates; when

Mr. Coit moved to strike out the first section. His object, he said, was to gain information, particularly with respect to the survey.

Mr. Gallatin (who was Chairman of the Committee which made the report) gave a concise history of the business; which satisfied Mr. Coit, who withdrew his motion; and the bill was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow.

The particulars of this case are as follows:

John Cleves Symmes and his associates entered into a contract with the United States in the year 1787, for a million acres of land in the North-western Territory, at a time when the geography of that country was not well understood. The tract was to extend twenty miles up the Great Miami to the Little Miami; but when this line came to be measured, it was found that it cut the Little Miami in several places on land which had been reserved by Virginia at the cession of this Territory to the United States. Mr. Symmes was down in the country before he knew the line thus drawn would thus cut into the lands of Virginia. The first thing he did was to take possession of the country which is between Fort Washington and the Little Miami, and to sell as much as he could of it. General St. Clair, the Governor of that Territory, threatened to drive Mr. Symmes and the settlers off this territory to which he had no right. The innocent settlers, who had purchased the land of Mr. Symmes, sent forward representations of their case to the President, which, together with the representations of the Governor, produced an act to change the boundary line of the purchase, which was passed April 12, 1792. This act describes the boundary line of the tract of land to be between the two Miamis and the Ohio. Mr. Ludlow was sent to survey it in 1793, when it was found, that instead of there being one million of acres, there were only five hundred and forty-three thousand nine hundred and fifty, which was duly surveyed, and the survey lodged in the Treasury Office on the 10th of January, 1794. Here arose the first difficulty. The act passed to change the boundary line could not take place without the consent of Mr. Symmes. In consequence, the law was said to be enacted at the request of Mr. Symmes. In 1794, Mr. S. had not made any request, consequently the law was a nullity. He might at that time have said, he would not have the land upon any other than the original contract, and that it was the business of the United States to make up the deficiency; and, if he had so acted, it is probable Congress would have been obliged to have found him one million of acres of land, agreeably to his contract; but, at that time, lands were not raised to so high a price as they were now, and Mr. S. did not think it necessary to avail himself of his contract. On the 11th April, 1792, a petition was presented in his name, stating, that from an advance in the price of certificates, resulted the impossibility of fulfilling his contract, and prayed that an abatement might be made in the price of the land. On the 27th September, 1794, instead of saying he would not abide by the new boundary, he requests an alteration may be made in the boundary. Notwithstanding this request, Mr. S. now says, he did not know any thing of the survey, though more than nine months since it was made. At first sight, it would be supposed the contract was void for want of fulfilment; but as he says he never received from the public a counterpart of the contract (though it is generally supposed he had in some way got possession of a copy, but no proof existing of it,) the claim was not forfeited. A circumstance was mentioned which seemed to convey a strong supposition that Mr. S. was acquainted with the survey. The day following the request he had made for the new boundary, was issued to him a patent for three hundred thousand acres, referring to that survey. Mr. S. now objects to the releasement which was given of his first purchase as not being complete. It was stated that he had taken possession of land to which he was no way entitled. The necessity of the act being immediately passed appeared from an advertisement (which Mr. Gallatin read from a newspaper of that country) inviting persons to come and purchase, under an assurance that his original purchase would be completed. Mr. G. said that he had been offered some part of the land at a dollar an acre; he was informed that it would sell for two to settlers. Mr. G. said he knew it to be very capital land; and if the four hundred and fifty thousand acres which remained would sell for nine hundred thousand dollars, while he only gave three hundred thousand for the whole, he would have made a good bargain.

Thursday, February 23.

Direct and Indirect Taxes.

INCOME AND EXPENDITURE.

Mr. Gallatin hoped that the motion would not prevail. He believed he was the only person who had said, that he was not desirous that the bill laying a direct tax should pass this session. For it was true, that, although he was a strong advocate for a direct tax—although he thought a sufficient permanent revenue could not be drawn from any other source, yet he did not wish the law to pass during the present session; and the reason was, because he had not a sufficient reliance upon his own opinion, to wish a subject of this sort to come into being against the opinion of so many members of this House as appeared to be opposed to it. When the United States shall think it necessary to go into the measure, he trusted it would pass with great unanimity. At present, he doubted whether a majority of the country was not against the measure, especially when he not only saw so great a division in that House, but apparently a local division, as he believed only four members East of Hudson's River, and but five South of Virginia had voted for the measure, by which it appeared to be a mode desired only by the Middle States. Until, therefore, gentlemen from those parts had returned home and consulted their constituents upon the subject; until he knew that the law could be carried into effect with more unanimity than at this time appeared, he did not wish to press it. He was willing, therefore, to take all the blame which was imputable to this circumstance upon himself. He never wished the powers of Congress to be exercised in a way which should not meet with pretty general concurrence. Yet, had he thought the situation of the United States had been such, that additional revenue was absolutely necessary to support the public credit, and it could not have been conveniently raised from any other source, every other consideration would have given way to that necessity. But he did not think that any thing which had been said by the gentleman from South Carolina showed that there would be any deficiency in the revenue for the present, which would require additional taxes to supply it.

He would just observe, that the great argument in favor of direct taxes—an argument which had almost wrought conviction upon the mind of the gentleman from South Carolina himself—was the uncertainty of a revenue derived from commerce; and yet, from this circumstance, the friends of indirect taxes wish to extend that plan to the utmost, and raise every thing from it. He should have drawn different conclusions; and from that uncertainty, he should have wished never to have gone beyond those bounds which they knew were safe.

As to the receipts of 1797, Mr. G. said, we had well ascertained them, because they arose from the importations of 1796, which they knew amounted to 6,200,000 dollars, and which sum, with the internal duties, would be fully adequate to the expenses of the Government for this year. Yet some gentlemen thought the calculation too close, and therefore the additional duties before them had been consented to, which he believed every one must acknowledge would be fully equal to any deficiency that could possibly arise. The arguments of the gentleman from South Carolina applied to the year 1798. He said we did not know what might be the amount of the importations of the present year; that it might be less than last year, and therefore, that revenue ought to be provided to supply the deficiency, if there should be any. The arguments would be good, if the gentleman's data were true; but he had forgotten that the expenses of 1798 would be less than those of the present year by 700,000 dollars, including not only the current expenses, but the instalment of the Dutch debts, which in that year would only be 100,000 dollars. The instalment this year is 400,000, so that in this item there will be a difference of 240,000 dollars; in the next place, the 280,000 dollars which this year has been agreed to be paid to the Dey and Regency of Algiers, will not occur again; and also, the 180,000 dollars appropriated for finishing the frigate, would not be to provide another year. These three items made the 700,000 dollars which he had mentioned. In addition he would add, that this year there had been a charge of 200,000 dollars for the defence of the frontier in 1795; but perhaps something might be wanted in that quarter another year, and therefore he would pass over that sum. But he thought there could be no danger of a want of revenue in the year 1798.

Mr. G. said, he would not pretend to say that it would not be desirable to increase the revenue, in order that they might pay a part of such instalments of the foreign debt as would become due after the year 1801. Certainly the sooner our debt could be paid, the better; but he meant only to show that there was no necessity for increasing the revenue for 1798. If it were necessary to raise additional revenue, it would be for two principal objects, the payment of the Dutch debt and the eight per cent. deferred stock; but as these did not become due till the year 1801, they were not under the necessity of providing the means for it at present.

During the next session, Mr. G. said, they should have time to compare the two systems of taxes together, and to discover which offered the best and most permanent sources of revenue. For the reasons he had given, he should be opposed to the motion.

Mr. W. Smith said, he should not adduce many arguments to show the propriety of advancing the duty upon this article any more than that upon any other; but he wished to bring before the committee a true statement of the receipts and expenditures of the United States, in order to show what sum of money would probably be wanted to answer the demands of the United States. As he differed considerably from the gentleman from Pennsylvania as to our real wants, he considered it as his duty to lay this statement before the committee. He had investigated the subject with as much accuracy as possible. He had attended to the documents which had been laid before them, to the laws which would probably pass this session, and to the probable increase of revenue. The result of this examination was, that there would be a deficiency of about a million of dollars. To what the additional imposts already agreed to would amount, he could not say, but he believed they would make 200,000 dollars, which would leave a deficiency of 800,000 dollars. He made the following statement:

Expenses of 1797.

Civil list,$634,322

Military and Naval Establishment and pensions,1,284,532

Deficiency of 1796,201,000

Algerine appropriation,376,500

Interest of Domestic Debt,3,471,972

Interest on Dutch debt,614,241

Instalments do do. 1797,400,000

Premium remitt. &c.50,000

Appropriations for frigate,171,000

————

7,213,567

=========

Revenues of 1797.

Impost,$5,588,961

Internal revenues,337,255

Post Office,35,000

Bank stock,150,000

Stock redeemed,88,636

Sundries,746

————

6,200,598

Additional imposts in 1797,200,000

————

6,400,598

Probable deficiency of revenue,812,969

————

7,213,567

=========

It would be observed, Mr. S. said, that the gentlemen from Pennsylvania and Maryland, had calculated the impost at 6,200,000 dollars, whilst he made it only at 5,588,961, which he took from the Secretary of the Treasury's statement, and he believed this was the safest calculation. He would not go into any very long argument on this subject, because it had frequently been under discussion.

Mr. Gallatin inquired from what document Mr. Smith took his calculations?

Mr. W. Smith answered, from the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, which was calculated upon a permanent plan. In calculations on the subject of revenue, the largest amounts should not be taken. It was not policy in gentlemen to adopt that plan; they should make allowances for deficiencies and accidents. The situation of this country at present required it, and it would be safe, prudent, and discreet, to do so. The Secretary of the Treasury had estimated the internal revenue at 337,255 dollars, while those gentlemen made it 469,579. This they stated from the revenue of last year, which it was probable would be considerably more than this. He thought there was as much reason for taking one as the other statement; and the Government would be exposed to hazard and danger, unless allowances were made for deficiencies.

The deficiency, according to his calculation, was 1,012,969 dollars, and after deducting from that sum 200,000 for the additional duties in the bill before them, there would remain a balance of 812,969 dollars. Admitting the gentleman's own statement to be true, there would still be a deficiency of 100,000 dollars, and this without making any allowance whatever for accidents and occurrences which will always happen, without making any provision for the purchase of the public debt, which might at this time be purchased to great advantage. If there had been money in the Treasury for the purpose, instead of paying the debt at par, it might have been bought up at 16 or 17s. in the pound. And he was of opinion, from the present situation of things, the public debt would remain low, and that a surplus in the Treasury might be well employed in purchasing it.

So much for the revenue and expenses of the present year. With respect to 1798, there was no necessity to go much into that subject. The gentleman from Pennsylvania had estimated the instalment of the Dutch debt, payable in this year, at 160,000 dollars only; but he asked whether it would be wise to pay only that sum? And whether it had not been in the contemplation of that gentleman, as well as others, to pay as much as they could yearly? He knew they should not be obliged to pay more; but he believed it would be a wise policy to pay an equal sum every year. That gentleman made another deduction of 280,000 dollars, which had been granted to the Dey and Regency of Algiers this year; but might they not expect items which they did not contemplate, to this amount? Contingencies, he said, occurred, which always swelled the expenses greater than were contemplated. There was always something of an extraordinary nature occurring to call for money; either an Indian war, or insurrection, depredations of foreign powers, or attacks by the Algerines. There was no guarding with certainty against them. The next deduction was 100,000 dollars for the frigates. Whether this would be saved or not, was uncertain. The next House might agree to go on with the frigates.

Upon the whole, Mr. S. said, it would be prudent to provide a sufficiency of revenue, and there was no prospect of getting it from any other than the objects contained in the bill before them. A land tax was agreed to be laid aside for the present, as gentlemen from the Eastward seemed wholly against it, and those of the Middle States seemed to have grown lukewarm upon the subject. The duty on stamps, which would have provided considerable revenue, was also laid aside. They had agreed to lay low duties upon distilled domestic spirits; no increase could therefore be expected from that quarter. They could, then, only resort to such articles of impost as would be likely, from their general demand and other circumstances, to produce additional revenue. As, therefore, no prospect appeared of getting other revenue than by the article before them, he should be compelled to agree, though with reluctance, to the advance of the duty on sugar.

With respect to their lands, they had authorized public stock to be received in payment; and, though he thought this a very valuable regulation, both for facilitating the sale of the land, and for paying off the debt, the lands, on this account, would not produce much cash into the Treasury.

Mr. S. Smith said, very early in the present session, he read, with some attention, the report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the subject of direct taxes. He cast his eye upon certain articles which he thought proper subjects upon which to raise further sums from indirect sources, among which were salt, sugar, tea, and the whole of the 10 per cent. class of goods; he communicated his sentiments to other gentlemen, and they had been brought forward.

He supposed the House would have gone into a system of direct taxes. This he had always considered as a difficult subject, and he never could, himself, form a plan adequate to effect it; but he was desirous that the subject should have been taken up, that in case of extremity it might be called into operation. He did not think any immediate wants of the revenue required this tax to be put into execution, but he wished to take it into consideration, to see what could be done with it. He had still his doubts whether it could be carried into execution; if it could, it would doubtless form a valuable source of revenue, which could not be injured. He had no doubt, however, of the present revenue being equal to our present wants. The gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. W. Smith) had taken his calculations from the report of the Secretary of the Treasury; but the Secretary went into a permanent calculation for a period of 18 years, in the course of which he calculated the sinking of the whole debt.

The trade of 1796, Mr. S. said, would give nearly a million of dollars; of course there could be no apprehensions upon the minds of gentlemen that the receipts of 1797 would not be equal to the wants of Government. The tax upon sugar would produce 300,000 dollars. The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Gallatin) was correct on this subject.

The gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. W. Smith) had said, it was not wise to calculate upon the highest returns; but Mr. S. Smith said it was right to calculate upon a preceding year, and when they knew that there would be received in this year from 700,000 dollars to one million, there could be no doubt of the year 1798 falling far short of that sum. For he was not one of those who thought the revenue arising from this year would be much inferior to that arising from the last.

The gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Harper) had supposed that the British spoliations had not affected our revenue, but that those of the French would be severely felt. He saw no difference between them, and believed they would be felt alike in proportion to their extent. [Mr. Harper explained.] He believed the United States would only consume a certain portion of the goods imported; the rest would be re-exported, and the drawback received upon them; and, as he did not believe the consumption of the United States had been lessened, it would follow that it had been the re-exportation which had been diminished, and, of course, that it would not be the duties which would be decreased, but the drawbacks. This being the case, little was to be apprehended from a defalcation of the revenue this year.

Indeed, he was of opinion, that the revenue arising from the present year, would be equal to any preceding year. The expenses of 1797 would be as follows:

ESTIMATE FOR THE YEAR 1797.

Instalment due on part of the Dutch debt, with interest

on the whole debt, together about$ 992,000

Annual 8 per cent. and 6 per cent. stock,2,324,175

Annual interest on 3 per cent. do.587,926

Ditto on 5-1/2 per cent. do.101,689

Ditto on 4-1/2 per cent. do.7,920

Ditto on supposed unfunded debt,78,261

Ditto on Bank loans,372,200

—————

4,463,971

Internal expenditures (as below)2,255,255

—————

$6,719,226

===========

Civil List, Mint, and Diplomatic, (agreeably to the

Secretary's report, estimated on the session of six

months,)$564,753

Deduct savings arising on the session of

four months only,52,800

—————

511,953

Bill for foreign intercourse,40,000

Light-houses,45,647

Miscellaneous claims,12,000

—————

$609,600

===========

MILITARY DEPARTMENT.

Pay of four regiments and artillery corps,$256,450

Subsistence,236,900

Clothing,75,000

Bounties,16,000

Hospital Department,25,000

Ordnance40,000

—————

649,350

Amount brought forward,$649,350

Two instructors,1,450

Quartermaster's Department,150,000

Defensive protection,60,000

Indian Department,90,000

Contingencies of War Department,15,000

Repairing fortifications,20,000

Military Pensions,93,350

Naval Department,190,000

Balance due on Algerine business,376,505

—————

Internal expenses of 1797,$2,255,255

The expenses of the Quartermaster's Department would in future be considerably lessened; for, said Mr. S., heretofore great expense had been incurred by land carriage, which in future would be avoided, as the forage would all be conveyed by water. Indeed it had not been an unusual thing for the horses employed in conveying forage from one post to another, to eat the whole of it in their journey to and from their destination, and some horses had been known to die from want on the road. The conveyance being now by water, a great destruction of horses would be prevented, and he doubted not that one hundred thousand dollars would be saved under this head.

Friday, February 24.

Amy Dardin.

The House proceeded to consider the report of the Committee of Claims, of the sixth ultimo, to whom was referred the petition of Amy Dardin, which lay on the table; whereupon, the said report was read at the Clerk's table, in the words following, to wit:

"That the most important, and all the material facts respecting this claim, are stated in the former report of the committee appointed to consider the said petition. To that report the committee now ask leave to refer. Whatever justice there might originally have been in this claim against the United States, it is now, and for many years past has been, as clearly within the statutes of limitation, as a multitude of others, which have been rejected. The committee regret that no relief can, with propriety, be granted to the petitioner, upon her application. So many evils would result from a suspension of the limitation act, for the admission of claims similar to the one under consideration, the committee cannot recommend that measure to be adopted. They are of opinion the prayer of the petition ought not to be granted."

The question was taken that the House do agree to the said report, and passed in the negative—34 to 27; when Mr. Gallatin moved that a committee be appointed to bring in a bill in favor of the petitioner. This motion occasioned some debate.

Mr. Gallatin said, he rejoiced in the vote which had passed in respect to the report before them, as it was a precedent against the act of limitation. When a claim was clear, it was a denial of justice not to pay the debt. He did not think it was more justifiable in a Government to refuse to pay its debts, than it was in individuals to do so. Though an act of limitation had been passed, they ought only to consider it, in a modified sense, as a guard against fraud; but, in cases where they were convinced a debt was justly due, he did not see upon good principles they could refuse to pay it. He was sure there was not a member on that floor that would do so in his individual capacity. Nor did he believe they needed to be operated on by the fear of a number of these claims being brought: he believed their number was small. But, said he, shall we fear that we shall be called upon to pay a few more just debts? He trusted so unworthy an apprehension would not prevent them from doing what was right. The act of limitation was produced, he said, by an incapacity to pay the claims which were made upon Government, and now they took advantage of that capacity, by refusing to pay the just demands which were made upon them. The certificates which had been given, not worth more than one-eighth of their nominal value, had been scattered all over the United States, and the distance from the seat of Government had been the reason application had not been made for payment. He spoke from his own knowledge. He had some of them put into his hands. Some of them he was fortunate enough to get paid before the act of limitation passed; others were yet unsettled. It was only since the erection of this Government, which had given them the ability to pay, that these claims were brought forward; for six or seven years every kind of claim was mustered, and the public debt was considerably swelled by them, but now a contrary extreme was observed, and no claim, however just, had a chance of being satisfied. He had never troubled the House on a subject of this kind before, but he had taken advantage of the fortunate decision of this morning to say a few words on the subject.

Messrs. Heath, Macon, Williams, and D. Foster, were against a committee being appointed to bring in a bill; they hoped no partial regulation would take place, but that if any exception was made, from the operation of the act of limitation, it would be done in a general way, as there was a great number of claims equally well entitled, with Mrs. Dardin's, to payment. Indeed, Mr. D. Foster, Chairman of the Committee of Claims, (who was not present when the question was taken upon the report,) said, if this claim was granted, it would bring forward a thousand others.

The report, petition, and papers, were committed to the whole House on Monday.

Saturday, February 25.

Suability of States.

On motion of Mr. Harper, the House then resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, on the report of the select committee on the resolution sent from the Senate, authorizing the President to make inquiry of certain States whether they had adopted the proposed amendment to the constitution with respect to the suability of States.

The select committee did not confine themselves to this single amendment, as reported from the Senate, but went back to the year 1789, when twelve amendments were proposed by Congress; for though they state eleven States out of fourteen had ratified ten of these amendments in the year 1791, yet they were of opinion that a doubt might arise whether eleven States ought to be considered as the three-fourths of fourteen; they therefore wished the President to be requested to make inquiry also from the non-ratifying States on the subject of these ten amendments.

Mr. Nicholas said, the resolution of itself was only exceptionable as it had connection with the statement which went before it, in which it was made a question whether the ten last amendments of the twelve proposed by Congress to the States in March, 1789, were ever made part of the constitution. He did not wish a doubt to be expressed on this subject. This doubt, in the opinion of the committee, it seemed, rested on a supposition that eleven were not three-fourths of fourteen. He could not conceive how any doubt could arise on this subject, since it must be acknowledged by every one that eleven was more than three-fourths of fourteen. If the objection arose from fourteen not being divisible in equal fourth parts, it was an objection to the constitution as originally made. It was formed by thirteen States, which was no more divisible into fourths than fourteen. On this ground, an amendment could never have been made to the constitution. He hoped the Chairman of the committee would give them some information on the subject.

Mr. Harper said, it was not of much importance whether the committee had doubts, or whether those doubts were well founded. The committee stated they had these doubts. He had them; not whether eleven was three-fourths of fourteen, according to arithmetical calculation—every school boy knew, that, in that view, eleven was more than three-fourths of fourteen; but it was, whether you could make a division of States. He believed it could not be done; he believed there must be twelve ratifying States to be three-fourths, as intended by the constitution, because that number would be three-fourths of sixteen, which was the nearest number to fourteen capable of four equal divisions. Whether this doubt was well founded or not, there could be no harm in directing the inquiry to be made; it would be made as soon for thirteen amendments as for one, and if any other State should have ratified the ten amendments in question, all doubt would be removed. Mr. H. noticed an error or two which had escaped the committee in their report.

Mr. Gallatin said, the resolution under consideration went to direct the President to apply to all those States, by whom, as far as can be known from the official documents heretofore transmitted, all or any of the amendments at any time proposed by Congress still remained to be ratified. There could be no occasion to make the inquiry with respect to all these amendments, unless it were taken for granted that none of them had yet been ratified. He was, therefore, of opinion, with the gentleman from Virginia, that such an application would be very improper, as bringing the ten last amendments into doubt, which he believed to be as much a part of the constitution as any other article in it; he also thought them a very valuable part, and not to be trifled with.

But, upon what ground, said Mr. G., do the advocates of this report prove that 11 is not three-fourths of 14? The idea was so novel that he could scarcely understand what principle they adopted in order to create a doubt on their minds on this subject. To him the position that 11 was more than three-fourths of fourteen appeared to be one of those self-evident axioms which hardly admit of a proof. The principle on which the doubt arose must be so very nice, so abstract, that he did not know whether he was capable of comprehending it. Anxious as he was to avoid saying any thing which might be construed as misstatement, he would, however, attempt to analyze what he conceived to be the ground of the gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr. Harper.)

It appeared to him that that gentleman thought three-fourths in itself was not a fraction of the unit, was not a number conveying to the mind the simple idea of a fraction; but that it was a compound of fractions, and that the only way by which the idea of three-fourths could be conceived was by a decomposition. Because the idea of three-fourths was by our numerical arithmetic expressed by the two figures 3/4, that gentleman was unable to conceive what it meant except by decomposition, by dividing the unit into four equal parts and multiplying the result by 3. And if that idea of three-fourths had happened to be expressed by the fraction nine-twelfths, (which was the same thing as three-fourths,) that gentleman could not have conceived it except by dividing in the first place the unit into twelve parts and then multiplying the result by nine. In fact he denied the existence of any number, part of a unit, except as it consisted of an aggregate of such parts as the unit could exactly be divided into.

Thus, when speaking of fourteen States, although he (Mr. Gallatin) could at once understand that three-fourths of fourteen was ten-and-a-half, and, therefore, (admitting, as he did together with that gentleman, that the vote of a State was indivisible) that eleven States were more than three-fourths of fourteen, the gentleman from South Carolina proceeded in a different way. The fourth part of fourteen being three-and-a-half, he says that, as a State cannot be divided, you must take four States instead of three-and-a-half for the fourth part of fourteen, and then multiplying these four States by three, in order to get the three-fourths, he concludes that twelve States are three-quarters of fourteen—that the twelve States out of fourteen are necessary to ratify the amendments. He believed the gentleman would allow that he had not misstated his opinion.

Let us now see, said Mr. G., how this doctrine will operate. It would go to prove, in some instances, that three-fourths of a number is greater than the whole. Suppose, for instance, the case of five States. One-fourth of five is 1-1/4; but as the vote of a State cannot be divided, you must call it two; or, as the gentleman expressed it, five not being divisible into four equal parts, you must take the nearest number to five capable of such division, that is to say 8, the fourth part of which is two; two, therefore, must be considered as the fourth part of five States, and as three multiplied by two is six, it follows, according to that gentleman's doctrine, that the three-fourths of five is six! Suppose that, in the constitution, instead of the expression three-fourths, it had been said that nine-twelfths were necessary. The number of States when the constitution was framed was thirteen. In that case one-twelfth of thirteen being one and one-twelfth, you must, the vote of a State being indivisible, call it two; so that in that way of reckoning, nine-twelfths (which is the same thing as three-fourths) of 13 is 18! Consequently, the consent of eighteen States would have been necessary in order to ratify any amendment to the constitution of a nation consisting only of 13 States.

Let us, said he, examine a little farther. The same part of the constitution which provides for amendments of the constitution, says, that an amendment shall be proposed by two-thirds of both Houses of Congress; but he supposed the vote of a man was no more divisible than that of a State. He wished to know, therefore, how the gentleman would, on his principle, calculate what were two-thirds of the members present when their whole number was not divisible by three?

In making treaties he wished to know what was meant by two-thirds of the members of the Senate present? If the number present happened not to be divisible by three, would that gentleman say, that, in that case, the next number above the number present must be taken, which would be divisible by three, and that if two-thirds of that number did not concur in the vote for the treaty, no treaty should be ratified? On that principle, in some instances, a greater proportion of the Senate would be necessary to ratify a treaty than had been usually understood, according to the generally received opinion of the sense of the constitution in this respect.

Upon the whole, he believed it would be best to reject the report, as, besides the objections alluded to, it was confessedly inaccurate in some of its parts, and adopt the resolution sent from the Senate, which applied only to the amendment respecting the suability of States. If the House meant to go any further, they might introduce the first and second amendments proposed at the same time with the other ten, but which had not yet been ratified.

Mr. Harper said, he would add a word or two to what he had already offered on this subject. He did not know whether the House thought with him on this subject, that it was a doubtful point whether the ten amendments in question had been ratified according to the sense of the constitution. If they did, they would of course, vote for the report. The gentleman from Pennsylvania, he acknowledged, had not only shown his knowledge in arithmetic, but also his wit, which had not until now been brought before them. In the enjoyment of the last he had participated in common with the House.

Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) was in favor of rejecting the resolution reported by the select committee, as it embraced too many objects, and held out a kind of invitation for States to come forward and propose amendments to the constitution. He trusted the first of the amendments, proposed in 1789, relative to the proportion of representation, never would be agreed to, as it would have extremely mischievous effects. Indeed, if any thing were done with respect to that amendment, he should think it ought to be to request those States which have not adopted it, not to do it, and those who have agreed to it, to revoke their vote in favor of it.

The question was then taken on the resolution reported, and negatived, without division.

The resolution was as follows:

"Resolved, That the President of the United States be requested to apply, as speedily as may be, to all those States, by which, as far as can be known from the official documents heretofore transmitted, all or any of the amendments, at any time proposed by Congress, still remains to be ratified; and to obtain from them authentic information of the proceedings had by them, respectively, on the subject of those amendments, or any of them."

The question was then taken on the resolution of the Senate, and agreed to. It was as follows:

"Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That the President be requested to adopt some speedy and effectual means of obtaining information from the States of Connecticut, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and South Carolina, whether they have ratified the amendment proposed by Congress to the constitution, concerning the suability of States: If they have, to obtain the proper evidences thereof."

Accommodation of the President.

On motion of Mr. Gallatin, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill to accommodate the President of the United States; when

Mr. Henderson said, he wished for information on this subject, as he had not sufficient to convince him of the propriety of granting 14,000 dollars, in addition to the furniture now in possession of the President; he therefore moved to strike out the 14,000, for the purpose of inserting 5,000. The bill informed them that this sum, in addition to what might arise from the sale of such of the present furniture as may be decayed, out of repair, or unfit for use, was to be laid out in furnishing the household for the President. It was very lately that they had received a proposition from the Senate to advance the salary of the President 5,000 dollars; the bill was rejected by that House. It appeared to him that this bill went to effect the same thing in a different way. If the object was merely to furnish the household of the President, he thought a much less sum would be adequate to that purpose. He thought 5,000, with the proceeds of the sale of such of the present furniture as was unfit for service, might be sufficient. He had no doubt that the sum would make the furniture of the President for four years to come equal to what it had been for four years past.

Mr. Nicholas wished the gentleman would leave the sum blank, instead of inserting 5,000.

Mr. Henderson consented.

The question was taken, and negatived—42 to 39.

The committee then rose, and the House having taken up the subject—

Mr. Nicholas said, as a majority of the House was against striking out this sum, he wished to have some information why this sum was fixed upon, and for what purpose it was to be applied. No one wished more than he did to place the President in a situation conformable to his station; but according to his information, this sum was more than was given to the present President on his entering upon the office, though there remained the whole of the furniture, most of which was worth as much at this time as it was when first purchased.

Mr. Sitgreaves said, he would give to the gentleman all the information which he had on the subject. In the year 1778 or 1779, by a resolution, of the old Congress, an household was established for the President of Congress. This remained until the present Government went into operation in the year 1789. It was then resolved, that Mr. Osgood should be requested to fit up the House in a proper manner for the reception of the President of the United States. In that year the law passed for compensating the President of the United States, which enacted that a salary of 25,000 dollars should be allowed him, together with the use of the furniture then in his possession belonging to the United States. This furniture cost the United States 13,657 dollars, 83 cents. During the period from 1779, when the household was first established until 1789, when the President of the United States entered upon his office, the furniture which had been purchased for the President by Congress, was so much decayed, that it required nearly 14,000 dollars to replenish it. It was the opinion of the joint committee, therefore, that in a lapse of eight years, viz: from 1789 to the present time, the furniture then purchased must have experienced equal dilapidation and decay, and that a sum at least as large as was then allowed (particularly when it was considered that the price of goods was very much advanced since that time) should now be allowed for putting the present household upon the same footing of respectability and convenience with that at New York in 1789. Mr. S. did not know that he could give any further information on the subject. It was a matter of notoriety that a great part of the goods then purchased were worn out and destroyed; such as the household linen, crockery ware, &c., and that the President had renewed them at his own expense; insomuch that if he were to take out of the House the furniture which he had supplied, there would little remain in it besides tables, chairs, bedsteads, and a few such articles; since all the carpets and ornamental furniture of the House had been purchased by himself.

Whilst he was up, he would wish to obviate the only objection which had been adduced to this bill. The gentleman from New Jersey (Mr. Henderson) had supposed that this allowance was meant to carry into effect what had been rejected in another way, alluding to the proposed advance of salary. That gentleman might see a very obvious distinction between the two things. If $5,000 had been added to the salary of the President, he could have disposed of it as he pleased; but the money now proposed to be granted, was to be employed in the purchase of furniture, &c., which would remain the property of the United States, and would devolve upon the next President. Mr. S. said, he would add, that in the joint committee there was not a dissenting voice to the proposition, and he hoped there would not be one in the House.

The question was put for engrossing the bill for a third reading, and carried, there being fifty votes in favor of it. This day and Monday were mentioned for the third reading; the question was carried for the most distant day, 40 to 35.

Monday, February 27.

Accommodation of the President.

The bill to accommodate the President was read the third time; when Mr. Heath moved to have the bill recommitted, for the purpose of striking out $14,000 to insert $8,000. He thought $14,000 too large a sum to be given to purchase new furniture; $8,000 he thought would be a sufficiently handsome sum for the purpose. They were apt to be too lavish with the public money on some occasions, and too sparing on others. He had not been satisfied with the reasons which had been given by the Chairman of the committee for giving the sum now in the bill. At a time when our Treasury was so much in want of money, he did not wish so large a sum to be given for this purpose; nor did he think it necessary, except it were to put our President in the style of a potentate or prince. And this he was sure the President of the United States would not wish, as he believed he was a gentleman of great economy, and would spurn at any thing like tinsel or expense. Five thousand dollars had been thought a sufficient sum for this purpose, but he was willing to give $8,000. He hoped the bill would therefore be recommitted, and this sum be inserted.

Mr. Macon seconded the motion for recommitting the bill. He was against it altogether. He did not see why they should furnish the house of the President any more than that of any other of their officers. He thought the thing improper at first, and that it was wrong to continue the practice. If the salary was not large enough, it should be made larger, though he thought it sufficiently large.

Mr. Rutherford concurred with his colleague, Mr. Heath. It was necessary, he said, that Republicans should be consistent. If we thus give away the people's money, said he, shall we not be charged with rapaciously putting our hands into their pockets? Have we not, he added, refused to redress grievances and injuries, and to do justice to many deserving and distressed citizens, because our Treasury is low? And shall we now, when there is no right reason for it, lay hold of the public Treasury, and lavish away $14,000? For what? For adding new furniture to the house of the President. No; he was willing to render him all possible respect; he remembered well his letter to our sister Republic of Holland. He had a pretty good memory. He remembered well his patriotism; but he saw no reason to give him $14,000. He would give him $8,000, which he thought would be a very pretty compliment; but to give $14,000 would outrage every idea of that economy and Republican simplicity which ought to characterize the American nation. Why, said he, shall we, who are a Confederacy of the Democratic Republicans, everlastingly keep our eyes upon the pageantry of Eastern Courts? Let us rather attend to our own character than that of any despotic nation upon earth. He hoped the bill would be recommitted.

The question for recommitting was carried—45 to 40.

The House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the bill, when—

Mr. Heath moved to strike out $14,000 and insert $8,000.

Mr. Gillespie called for the estimate, which he understood was in possession of the committee.

Mr. Sitgreaves said there was no estimate before the House or committee. All that he had seen was a list of the furniture which had been purchased for the President in 1789. He himself had not had patience to go through it; but if the gentleman wished it, it might be read to the House.

Mr. Hartley hoped there would have been no objection to this appropriation. He thought the Chairman of the committee had fully shown the propriety of granting the $14,000 to the President, who was not merely an officer of the Government, but a branch of it. It was not giving the money away, but merely advancing it on account of the United States. He was not in favor of high salaries, but he wished the situation of the President to be made comfortable and respectable.

Mr. Heath said, he believed a great part of the furniture which was purchased in 1789, was at present as good as when laid in; this was particularly the case with respect to the mahogany furniture; and he thought the $8,000 would be a sufficient sum to replace all articles of a perishable nature, such as carpets, linens, &c.

Mr. Holland was in favor of striking out, because it was only necessary to appropriate as much as might be necessary whilst Government remained here, as, when it should be removed, the furniture now used might not be suitable for the house at Washington. At that time, he supposed a further sum would be called for, and therefore he thought a less sum than $14,000 would be sufficient for the present purpose.

Mr. Williams was in favor of the bill as it stood. He had been told that it was the intention of the State of Pennsylvania to make an offer to the President of the house which had lately been erected in this city; if so, perhaps the furniture which might be purchased for it would be suitable for the house in the Federal City. He had before said that he thought it would have been better to have augmented the salary of the President, and let him purchase his own furniture. But as that had not been agreed to, he wished the committee now to rise and report progress, that information might be gained on the subject; because he thought if he was to have that house, that sum would not be too large.

Mr. Sitgreaves said, he did not know whether the Legislature of this State would conclude to make the President the offer which the gentleman last up had mentioned; but of this he was sure, that if they did, he could not afford to accept of it. For, if this bill passed, he was certain that, under such circumstances, he could not remove into that house, because he would not be able to furnish it.

Mr. S. said, he was surprised the House should so suddenly change their opinion. He thought he had given sufficient information on the subject to have shown the necessity of the grant. [Mr. S. here repeated what he had before noticed respecting what had been allowed on a former occasion.] When gentlemen entered minutely into the subject, they seemed to have information which was not very correct. He believed the sum mentioned in the bill not more than sufficient. The decay which had taken place in the President's household would require that sum to make it good. The gentleman from Virginia supposed there were many articles, not perishable in their nature, which could not have been injured by their use. He was mistaken. There was nothing but about $800 worth of plated ware and the mahogany furniture which could at all come under this description. Indeed, any gentleman who was in the habit of paying his respects to the President of the United States must have seen with regret that the appearance of his furniture was so far inferior to that which was to be found in the houses of any of our wealthy citizens, or even of those in moderate circumstances. When this was a notorious fact, what ground, he asked, could gentlemen have for comparing the household of the President to the pomp and splendor of Eastern Courts? On the contrary, he thought there was a humility of appearance in the house of the President, which he would not say was a disgrace to the country, but which at least proved its rigid economy.

Mr. Nicholas said he voted for going into Committee of the Whole on this subject from an idea that the sum proposed to be given to the President was larger than was necessary, though he confessed he could not say what that sum ought exactly to be; he was for giving enough and rather too much than too little. Indeed, when he considered that the whole sum was not to be expended, except it should be found necessary, and that a certain style was expected to be observed in this station, he was not for stinting the sum to what he thought just enough for purchasing furniture. If the whole of the money granted must of necessity be expended in furniture, he should have had more hesitation on the subject; but as the expenditure would be left to the discretion of the President, he could not suppose, from the well-known habits of economy of that gentleman, it would be improperly disposed of. He therefore felt no difficulty in agreeing to the sum in the bill; for though he thought the sum too large, yet he would not so confine the appropriation as to oblige their officer to go about the streets to look out for cheap purchases of furniture.

Mr. Buck said, previous to these measures being brought forward, they had decided against any advance to the salary of the President. All that time a committee was appointed to inquire into the state of the President's household, and to report whether any, and what, further accommodation was necessary to be afforded. He conceived that it was the wish of that House that the gentleman who was coming into office should have accommodations equal to those which had been given to the gentleman who was leaving it. The committee had examined into facts, made a report, and a bill had been brought in accordingly. The committee had informed them upon what principles they had acted; and it did not appear that they either intended to increase the splendor of the household of the President, nor to add to his salary. If any member could come forward and show that the report of the committee was erroneous, they should have some ground upon which to reject it. He had heard no man say this, and therefore all that had been offered on the subject ought not to weigh against that report. When the bill was before them on Saturday, there was a considerable majority in favor of it, and as they had no new information on the matter, he saw no reason for a change of opinion.

Some members, Mr. B. said, had held out an idea that they were about to give this money away, to enable the new President to live in the style of foreign Courts. If the inhabitants of this city had adopted this style, then it would be chargeable against the President, but not otherwise, since it was acknowledged he had not kept pace with them in this respect. The appropriating this money would only be converting it into so much public property; for, when his term of office should expire, he could not carry away a single article. It was not, therefore, giving away a farthing, but merely providing for our own convenience to enable the President to fill the office with comfort and reputation; and as they had nothing before them to show the sum too large, he saw no propriety in rejecting it, for the purpose of inserting any other.

Mr. Rutherford said, if the House had committed an error one day, it would be well for them to correct it another. If they were to give $14,000 away on the present occasion, he thought they would commit a very serious error. The gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Sitgreaves) had said many of the citizens of Philadelphia lived in a superior style to the President. If so, he would say they were very bad citizens, since it was proper that the citizens of this rising Republic should cultivate a simplicity of living and of manners.

Mr. Macon thought some of the arguments introduced on this occasion were very improper; such as the habits of economy or private fortune of the gentleman who was to succeed to the Presidential chair. They were about to settle a permanent principle, which it was proper to do at this time, before a new Presidency commenced. He knew nothing of the private property of the person who was to fill the office, nor had it any thing to do with the matter. The question was, whether they were to go over the same ground every four or eight years of furnishing the house of a new President? He did not wish that it should be so; he wished the salary to be the only consideration which the President should receive for his services. If it had not been settling a permanent principle, he should not perhaps have opposed it.

It had been said that the old President of Congress had a household furnished him, but he received no salary from the United States except his household. He considered this sum as an advance upon the salary paid to the President by the different States, and before any salary was fixed by the United States; but now, as an ample salary was paid to the President, he did not think such a provision should be continued. It was sometimes said that it was no matter what sum was appropriated, as, if it was not wanted, it would not be expended; but, he believed, whatever sum was appropriated would be expended; for he was not one of those who thought that revenue could not be found. He believed if the money was granted, it would be both found and spent.

Mr. Sitgreaves wished to correct the gentleman last up with respect to one fact. He had said the President of the old Congress had no salary. It was true that he did not receive any thing under that name, but there was a provision, not merely for the furniture of his house, but for the constant provision of it; and this was so considerable that from 1778 to 1779, in one year, eighty-three thousand dollars were paid for that purpose.

Mr. Macon wished to know what sort of money this was; he supposed it was in depreciated paper.

Mr. Sitgreaves was not certain what kind of money was meant.

Mr. Jeremiah Smith said, in settling an affair of this kind, it was proper to have respect to the office, and not to the man who was to fill it. He could himself consider the establishment of the President's household in no other light than in the nature of a compensation for his services, in the same way that he considered the privilege of franking, stationery, and newspapers, allowed the members of both Houses, to be such; because, if they were not allowed to them, they would have to purchase those articles themselves; and if furniture was not provided by Government for the house of the President, he must himself furnish it out of his salary, or from his private purse. To refuse to provide the necessary furniture would therefore be to reduce his salary; for it was true that this plan of presenting furniture to the President was adopted before the salary was fixed, so that it must have been considered as being additional to the salary. And was that salary, he asked, near so valuable now as it was when fixed? Certainly not. He trusted, therefore, they should not reduce it.

This sum, Mr. S. said, was mentioned, from a consideration that four years hence the seat of Government would be removed, and that then the furniture would be in a great degree useless. They, therefore, only recommended such a sum as they thought would be sufficient to put the furniture in a proper state for that term. He believed that fourteen thousand dollars would not do more than that.

Mr. Macon said he was always opposed to the privileges allowed to members of franking, &c. Gentlemen talked about a statement; he did not know what that might contain, he had not seen it; but he did not know how it could require fourteen thousand dollars to repair furniture which at first cost only thirteen thousand.

Mr. Jeremiah Smith said, the gentleman last up was inaccurate in his statement. The thirteen thousand dollars which were allowed for furniture for the late President, was in addition to the furniture which had already been in possession of the President of Congress.

Mr. Sherburne said, the question was with respect to the quantum of money to be granted, as every one seemed to allow that a certain sum was necessary. By having recourse to what was done for other officers of the Government, they might, perhaps, form an estimate of what would be reasonable on the present occasion. A practice had been established of allowing our Ministers to foreign countries a sum as an outfit equal to one year's salary; so that nine thousand dollars were allowed a Minister for this purpose, though it might happen that he would not be employed more than a few months in the service. He thought, therefore, that fourteen thousand dollars could not be thought too large a sum for the President of the United States, whose term of service was for four years, and which would go to his successor in office; whereas, the nine thousand dollars allowed to a foreign Minister were entirely at his disposal, though he might not be in the service more than a month.

Mr. Ames said, it appeared to him that it would be desirable to proceed according to precedent, as nearly as they could. It was not desirable to innovate or change the established order of things, except strong reasons existed for the change. On inquiring what had been the practice heretofore, they found the President of the old Congress, as well as the President now going out of office, had establishments made for their household similar to that now proposed. If they looked forward to that period when the seat of Government was to be removed, and considered the furniture which would be necessary for the house in the Federal city, it would be seen that there would be a necessity for a new establishment at that time, as it was evident that the present furniture or what might be purchased with the sum now contemplated, would be wholly inadequate to the furnishing of that house. He supposed an additional grant of twelve or fifteen thousand pounds would be necessary for that purpose.

We have chosen an elective Government, said Mr. A., and if it were meant to be kept pure, they must encourage the people to make choice of such men, without respect to fortune, as they think will serve them best, but if instead of providing a suitable household for the President, they left him to provide for himself in this respect, men of large fortune only could engage in this part of the public service. And would this, he asked, be doing honor to the Republican Government? He thought not.

The question for striking out was put and negatived—55 to 36. The committee then rose, and when the question was about to be put in the House—

Mr. Gallatin said, the provision of the bill left it to the discretion of the President whether he would expend the whole of the money, or not. His opinion was, that the sum was too large; but the question for striking it out having been negatived, the expenditure must be left to the discretion of the President. He did not mean to go into any detail. He did not wish to place the gentleman coming into office in a worse situation than that of him who was going out; and as he felt no objection to leave it to the President to make use of the whole or a part of this money, as his discretion should direct, he should vote for the bill.

Mr. Claiborne said, as provision had been made for furniture for the gentleman now in office, he was inclined to vote for the fourteen thousand dollars proposed now to be granted for the same purpose to the gentleman who was to succeed him.

Mr. Henderson wished to give his reasons for voting against this bill. He wished to place the President coming into office in as comfortable circumstances as he who was going out; but it appeared to him that the sum proposed was larger than necessary for this purpose. Indeed, said Mr. H., when he read an article of the constitution touching this subject, he had his doubts with respect to the constitutionality of the proceeding. That article said, "that the President should receive a compensation which should neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he should have been elected; and that he should not receive within that period any other emoluments from the United States, or any of them."

Mr. Sitgreaves believed there could be no doubt as to the constitutionality of the proposed grant of money, as the clause ran, "during the period for which he should have been elected," which would not prevent them from passing any number of acts before he went into office.

The question on the passing of the bill was then taken by yeas and nays, and stood 63 to 27, as follows:

Yeas.—Fisher Ames, Theodorus Bailey, Abraham Baldwin, Theophilus Bradbury, Daniel Buck, Dempsey Burges, Thomas Claiborne, Joshua Coit, William Cooper, William Craik, Samuel W. Dana, James Davenport, George Dent, George Ege, Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Nathaniel Freeman, junior, Albert Gallatin, Ezekiel Gilbert, Nicholas Gilman, Henry Glenn, Chauncey Goodrich, Roger Griswold, William B. Grove, Robert Goodloe Harper, Carter B. Harrison, Thomas Hartley, William Hindman, John Wilkes Kittera, George Leonard, Edward Livingston, Samuel Lyman, William Lyman, James Madison, Francis Malbone, Andrew Moore, Frederick A. Muhlenberg, William Vans Murray, John Nicholas, John Page, Josiah Parker, John Patton, Elisha R. Potter, John Read, John Richards, Samuel Sewall, John S. Sherburne, Samuel Sitgreaves, Thompson J. Skinner, Jeremiah Smith, Nathaniel Smith, Isaac Smith, Israel Smith, William Smith, Richard Sprigg, junior, Thomas Sprigg, John Swanwick, Zephaniah Swift, George Thatcher, John E. Van Allen, Philip Van Cortlandt, Peleg Wadsworth, and John Williams,

Nays.—Thomas Blount, Nathan Bryan, Samuel J. Cabell, Gabriel Christie, John Clopton, Isaac Coles, Jesse Franklin, James Gillespie, Christopher Greenup, Andrew Gregg, Wade Hampton, John Hathorn, Jonathan N. Havens, John Heath, Thomas Henderson, James Holland, Andrew Jackson, George Jackson, Aaron Kitchell, Matthew Locke, Nathaniel Macon, John Milledge, Anthony New, Alexander D. Orr, Robert Rutherford, William Stradwick, and Richard Winn.

Military and Naval Appropriations.

The House went into a Committee of the Whole on this subject, when, after some discussion respecting the price of rations, Mr. Gallatin insisting upon seventeen cents being a sufficiently high calculation, and Mr. W. Smith abiding by the estimate of the War Department at twenty cents; the latter was agreed upon thirty-six to thirty-four, and the pay and subsistence of the Army was settled, but which has since undergone an alteration, owing to the two companies of cavalry being added by a new bill. The sum for forage and clothing was also agreed upon, but which afterwards, of course, from the above alteration, underwent an augmentation. The hospital department being under consideration,

Mr. W. Smith moved to fill the blank with thirty thousand dollars.

Mr. Gallatin moved to fill it with ten thousand. He said, they had this year had a statement of the expense of the Military Establishment, by which they found that the hospital department had cost six thousand nine hundred and five dollars. It had been the uniform practice of the House to appropriate from thirty to forty thousand dollars under this head, though the expense had never exceeded seven thousand; and to apply the surplus to other purposes. He thought it wrong to appropriate four times the sum necessary, and had therefore proposed to fill the blank with ten thousand dollars, which was fifty per cent. more than had ever been expended for the purpose.

Mr. Parker believed than ten thousand dollars would be enough to pay for physic for the Army. Indeed he believed it was generally expended in wine and luxuries by the officers, and that little of it went to the use of the subordinates.

The question for ten thousand dollars was put and carried.

The blank for the Ordnance Department was filled with forty thousand dollars; and that for the fortifications of the ports and harbors of the United States with twenty-four thousand dollars.

Mr. Gallatin moved to fill the blank for the Quartermaster's Department, the Indian Department, the defensive protection of the frontiers, bounties, and all the contingent expenses of the War Department, with three hundred thousand dollars.

Mr. Venable said, if the sum necessary for each of the above items could be specified, he would rather have it so expressed than have the whole in one sum.

Mr. W. Smith said it would come to the same thing, if the several items were voted in an aggregate sum, as they were all contingent expenses. He should move to have the blank filled with four hundred and forty-six thousand dollars.

Mr. Gallatin observed there were two motions before the committee: one to fill the blank with four hundred and forty-six thousand dollars, the other with three hundred thousand. He would observe that one of the items in this estimate, viz., that for the fortifications of West Point, ought not to be included under this head; but, as to the other items, he would mention, in answer to what had fallen from the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Venable) what was the reason which had induced the committee to put them in one sum, which was to obtain the very object he had in view in wishing to have all the items stated separately.

It would be recollected that they had had a letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, in which he said, "that the appropriations for the Military and Naval Establishments were considered as general grants of money; and, though they were to be accounted for according to law, yet it was the practice of the officers of the Treasury not to consider each appropriation as specific, but the whole as a general grant of money." This practice was making the law a mere farce, since the officers of the Treasury did not consider themselves as at all bound by the specific sums. He therefore concluded it to be proper to pass the law in such a manner as to confine the expense to the appropriation for the different items. It was said to be impossible to carry the law into execution on this principle. It was said there were a number of contingent expenses which could not be exactly ascertained, and that therefore it was necessary the officers of the Treasury should have a certain discretion given them to make use of the surplus of any item for which more than was necessary had been appropriated. He believed the uncertainty here mentioned existed, and therefore it had been concluded to be best to put the contingent articles together in one sum, in order to give bounds to the discretion of the Department.

Having given the reasons which caused the bill to be brought in in this shape, Mr. G. said he would mention the items upon which the sum he had proposed to fill up the blank was composed. For defensive protection, sixty thousand dollars; for the Quartermaster's Department, one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. This latter sum has been estimated at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, but upon what ground he was at a loss to know. The Army would now be fixed in garrison, and would not have to march from post to post. None of the reasons given last year for this expense would now apply; and he thought it unreasonable that the same sum should be allowed for this item which was allowed at the time when they were engaged in an Indian war.

In 1789, when we had eight hundred

men in garrison, the expenses of this

department was$11,076

In 1790, he did not recollect the number

of troops, but not more, he believed45,763

In 179192,223

In 1792 (in the height of the Indian war)206,510

In 1793178,602

In 1794263,000

In 1795317,647

What would be the expense of 1796, could not be exactly ascertained. It appeared by the statement which they had received that upwards of two hundred and four thousand dollars had been expended. Whether there were any further demands unsettled, he could not tell. It appeared, therefore, that the expense of that Department had increased from eleven thousand to three hundred thousand dollars. This had been owing to two causes—the increase of the Army, and by the Indian war. There had also been a great loss of horses from having forage to fetch great distances.

Mr. Dearborn could see no reason for making the appropriation so large as had been proposed by the gentleman from South Carolina. It must be recollected that the Army was in garrison, where there were barrack-houses convenient for the officers and men, and contracts had been entered into for delivering provisions at the different forts, and there would therefore be a great deduction on account of the transportation, in which seven or eight hundred horses had been used up, and the horses on hand might also be sold. Camp equipage was a heavy article of expense, but which would not be wanted whilst the troops were in garrison. These two articles would of themselves make a very considerable part of the whole item. There would also be a saving in the purchase of horses, as the cavalry made more than half the expense. He did not think more than one hundred thousand dollars could be wanted under this head, except it were wanted for making new forts or fortifications. There would now be no necessity for building officers' houses, and huts for the soldiers for winter quarters. All these circumstances considered, he thought the sum he had mentioned would be sufficient.

The question for filling the blank with four hundred and forty-six thousand was put and negatived, there being only thirteen votes in favor of it. The sense of the committee was then taken upon three hundred thousand, and carried—there being 51 votes in favor of it.

Mr. W. Smith then moved to add to the bill, "For the repairs of the fortifications of West Point, twenty thousand dollars."

Mr. Coit inquired if there was any estimate of this item.

Mr. Gallatin said there was no estimate respecting West Point.

Mr. W. Smith said there was an estimate for Niagara, Oswego, Detroit, &c., which might include West Point, he proposed therefore to change the motion, and insert "Niagara, Oswego, Detroit, &c.," which would include West Point, if necessary.

Mr. Gallatin wished the gentleman from South Carolina to say whether he had any information with respect to West Point.

Mr. W. Smith said, he had no particular information on the subject, but as it was of importance the works there should be very complete, he thought it prudent to grant something for that object.

Mr. Gallatin hoped the proposition would be rejected. There was no necessity for repairing the fortifications of the posts mentioned more than any other of the forts upon the Lakes. They knew nothing of them, but that they were too large for the garrisons in them; but he believed if they once begun to appropriate money for this purpose, it would become a yearly expense, And whilst they had been parsimonious with respect to the ports and harbors of the United States, having only appropriated twenty-four thousand dollars to that purpose, he could see no reason for granting twenty thousand dollars for repairing the forts of Niagara, Oswego, and Detroit, against a few Indians; as it was well known that a block-house was as good a fortification against the Indians as any other. When the regiment was raised to go and take possession of that country, they built all their forts as they went along, without any expense, except the price of a few tools. He hoped, therefore, they should not by voting for this sum, introduce a new item of expense into their annual appropriations.

Mr. W. Smith agreed with the gentleman last up, that enough had not been appropriated for the defence of the ports and harbors of the United States; but if they had done wrong in one instance, it was no rule why they should continue to do so. He thought it very important that the forts he had mentioned should be so secured at least as that they should not go to ruin. Under this item was included West Point, which was a fort of great consequence; and he would rather forty thousand dollars were appropriated than twenty thousand for this purpose.