FIFTH CONGRESS.—SECOND SESSION.

PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES In THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Monday, November 13, 1797.

This being the day appointed by law for the meeting of Congress, the House of Representatives assembled in their Chamber, and the following members answered to their names, to wit:

From New Hampshire.—Abiel Foster.

From Massachusetts.—Stephen Bullock, Samuel Lyman, John Read, William Shepard, George Thatcher, Joseph B. Varnum, and Peleg Wadsworth.

From Connecticut.—John Allen, Joshua Coit, Roger Griswold, and Nathaniel Smith.

From New York.—Lucas Elmendorph, Henry Glenn, Jonathan N. Havens, Hezekiah L. Hosmer, John E. Van Allen, and John Williams.

From New Jersey.—Jonathan Dayton, (Speaker,) and Thomas Sinnickson.

From Pennsylvania.—John Chapman, Albert Gallatin, Thomas Hartley, and John Swanwick.

From Maryland.—George Baer, junior, William Craik, George Dent, and Richard Sprigg, junior.

From Virginia.—John Dawson, D. Holmes, James Machir, Daniel Morgan, and Anthony New.

North Carolina.—Matthew Locke, Nathaniel Macon, and Richard Stanford.

South Carolina.—Robert Goodloe Harper, and John Rutledge, junior.

Several new members, to wit: Isaac Parker, from Massachusetts; Thomas Tillinghast, returned to serve as a member of this House, for the State of Rhode Island, in the room of Elisha R. Potter, who has resigned his seat; and William Edmond, returned to serve in this House, as a member for Connecticut, in the room of James Davenport, deceased, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House.

But a quorum of the whole number not being present, the House adjourned until to-morrow morning, eleven o'clock.

Tuesday, November 14.

Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, Harrison G. Otis; from Rhode Island, Christopher G. Champlin; from Connecticut, Samuel W. Dana and Chauncey Goodrich; from Vermont, Matthew Lyon; from Pennsylvania, Blair McClenachan and Richard Thomas; from Delaware, James A. Bayard; from Virginia, Richard Brent; from North Carolina, Robert Williams; from South Carolina, William Smith; and from Georgia, Abraham Baldwin, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

But a quorum of the whole number not being present, the House adjourned until to-morrow morning, eleven o'clock.

Wednesday, November 15.

Several other members, to wit: from New Jersey, James H. Imlay; from Pennsylvania, William Findlay; and from Maryland, William Hindman, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

And a quorum, consisting of a majority of the whole number, being present, the oath to support the Constitution of the United States was administered, by Mr. Speaker, to the following new members, to wit:

Isaac Parker, Thomas Tillinghast, and William Edmond, who took their seats in the House on Monday last.

A message was then sent to the Senate, to inform them that a quorum of the House is assembled, and were ready to proceed to business.

Thursday, November 16.

Several other members, to wit: from Vermont, Lewis R. Morris; from New York, James Cochran, and Edward Livingston; from Virginia, Matthew Clay, Thomas Evans, Walter Jones, Abram Trigg, and John Trigg; and from North Carolina, William Barry Grove, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

And then the House adjourned until to-morrow morning, eleven o'clock.

Friday, November 17.

Two other members, to wit: from New Jersey, Mark Thomson; and from Pennsylvania, John A. Hanna, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Monday, November 20.

Several other members, to wit: from New Hampshire, Jonathan Freeman and William Gordon; from New Jersey, James Schureman; from Maryland, William Matthews; and from Virginia, Abraham Venable, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Tuesday, November 21.

Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, Dwight Foster; from New York, Philip Van Cortlandt; and from Virginia, Carter B. Harrison, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

Wednesday, November 22.

Two other members, to wit: from Pennsylvania, David Bard, and Samuel Sitgreaves, appeared and took their seats.

Thursday, November 23.

Two new members, to wit: William C. C. Claiborne, from the State of Tennessee; and Thomas Pinckney, returned to serve as a member of this House for the State of South Carolina, in the room of William Smith, appointed Minister Plenipotentiary of the United States to the Court of Lisbon, appeared, produced their credentials, and took their seats in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to them by Mr. Speaker, according to law.

Two other members, to wit: from Virginia, Thomas Claiborne and John Clopton, appeared, and took their seats in the House.

President's Speech.

The hour of twelve being near at hand, the Speaker announced it, and a message was sent to the Senate to inform them that they were met, and ready to receive the communications of the President of the United States, agreeably to his appointment.

The members of the Senate attended accordingly, and about a quarter after twelve the President of the United States (after visiting the Senate Chamber) entered the House, accompanied by his Secretary and the Heads of Departments, and being seated, rose and delivered the following Address. (See Senate proceedings, ante.)

Having concluded his Speech, and delivered copies of it to the President pro tem. of the Senate, and to the Speaker of the House of Representatives, the President retired, the Speaker resumed the chair, and the House being come to order, he, as usual, read the Speech from the chair. This being done, on motion, it was referred to a Committee of the whole House, and made the order for to-morrow. It was ordered also to be printed.

Monday, November 27.

A new member, to wit: Bailey Bartlett, returned to serve in this House as a member for Massachusetts, in the place of Theophilus Bradbury, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House; the oath to support the Constitution of the United States being first administered to him by Mr. Speaker, according to law.

Several other members, to wit: from Massachusetts, Samuel Sewall; from New York, David Brooks; from Maryland, John Dennis; from Virginia, John Nicholas and Josiah Parker; and from North Carolina, Thomas Blount, appeared and took their seats in the House.

Address to the President.

Mr. Otis, from the committee appointed to draft an Address in answer to the Speech of the President of the United States, reported the following, which was twice read, and referred to a Committee of the Whole for to-morrow:

Sir: While our sympathy is excited by the recent sufferings of the citizens of Philadelphia, we participate in the satisfaction which you are pleased to express, that the duration of the late calamity was so limited, as to render unnecessary the expense and inconvenience that would have been incident to the convention of Congress in another place: and we shall readily attend to every useful amendment of the law which contemplates the event of contagious sickness at the seat of Government.

In lamenting the increase of the injuries offered to the persons and property of our citizens at sea, we gratefully acknowledge the continuance of interior tranquillity, and the attendant blessings of which you remind us, as alleviations of these fatal effects of injustice and violence.

Whatever may be the result of the mission to the French Republic, your early and uniform attachment to the interest of our country; your important services in the struggle for its independence, and your unceasing exertions for its welfare, afford no room to doubt of the sincerity of your efforts to conduct the negotiation to a successful conclusion, on such terms as may be compatible with the safety, honor, and interest of the United States. We have also a firm reliance upon the energy and unanimity of the people of these States, in the assertion of their rights, and on their determination to exert, upon all proper occasions, their ample resources in providing for the national defence.

The importance of commerce, and its beneficial influence upon agriculture, arts, and manufactures, have been verified in the growth and prosperity of our country. It is essentially connected with the other great interests of the community. They must flourish and decline together; and while the extension of our navigation and trade naturally excites the jealousy, and tempts the avarice of other nations, we are firmly persuaded, that the numerous and deserving class of citizens engaged in these pursuits, and dependent on them for their subsistence, has a strong and indisputable claim to our support and protection.

The delay of the Spanish officers to fulfil the treaty existing with His Catholic Majesty is a source of deep regret. We learn, however, with satisfaction, that you still indulge hopes of removing the objections which have been made to its execution, and that you have continued in readiness to receive the posts. Disposed to perform, with fidelity, our national engagements, we shall insist upon the same justice from others which we exercise towards them.

Our abhorrence cannot be too strongly expressed of the intrigues of foreign agents to alienate the affections of the Indian nations, and to rouse them to acts of hostility against the United States. No means in our power should be omitted of providing for the suppression of such cruel practices, and for the adequate punishment of their atrocious authors.

Upon the other interesting subjects noticed in your Address, we shall bestow the requisite attention. To preserve inviolate the public faith, by providing for the due execution of our treaties; to indemnify those who may have just claims to retribution upon the United States for expenses incurred in defending the property and relieving the necessities of our unfortunate fellow-citizens; to guard against evasions of the laws intended to secure advantages to the navigation of our own vessels; and especially, to prevent, by all possible means, an unnecessary accumulation of the public debt, are duties which we shall endeavor to keep in view, and discharge with assiduity.

We regard, with great anxiety, the singular and portentous situation of the principal powers of Europe. It was to be devoutly wished that the United States, remote from this seat of war and discord; unambitious of conquest; respecting the rights of other nations; and desirous, merely, to avail themselves of their natural resources, might be permitted to behold the scenes which desolate that quarter of the globe with only those sympathetic emotions which are natural to the lovers of peace and friends of the human race. But we are led by events to associate with these feelings a sense of the dangers which menace our security and peace. We rely upon your assurances of a zealous and hearty concurrence in such measures as may be necessary to avert these dangers; and nothing on our part shall be wanting to repel them, which the honor, safety, and prosperity of our country may require.

Tuesday, November 28.

Samuel Smith, from Maryland, appeared and took his seat.

Address to the President.

Mr. Coit moved for the order of the day on the reported Answer to the President's Speech.

The motion being agreed to, the House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole upon that subject, and the Address having been read through by the Chairman, it was again read by paragraphs. The first four were read, without any objection being offered to them. The fifth being gone through,

Mr. Pinckney said, he had to propose a small alteration to this clause: he wished to make the latter part of it a little less harsh. Instead of saying, "we shall insist upon the same justice from others," &c., he thought it would have the same effect, and the terms would be less objectionable, if the passage ran thus: "Nothing shall be wanting on our part to obtain the same justice from others," &c. The expression used, he said, might be perfectly justifiable, but, if we could obtain what we wished without the possibility of giving offence, he thought that mode ought to be preferred. It was on this account that he wished the phraseology to be changed.

Mr. Rutledge said, as a member of the committee who reported the Address, he did not feel tenacious as to the wording of it. At first, he thought with his colleague, who proposed the amendment, that the word insist was rather harsh; but, upon a little reflection, his objections to the phrase were removed. Indeed, he thought the proposed amendment would make the passage stronger than it was in the original. They might insist, he said, in argument; looking upon the treaty as a good one, they might insist upon its execution; but if it were not to be effected without going to war, they might afterwards relinquish it. The amendment he thought more forcible. It said "nothing shall be wanting to obtain," &c.; which would be to say, we look upon the treaty as a good one, and nothing shall be wanting on our part to obtain its fulfilment. The words might even be considered to say, that we are determined to have the treaty carried into effect, though war should be the price of the determination.

Mr. Dayton (the Speaker) approved of the amendment of the gentleman from South Carolina, but not from the reasons which that gentleman had urged in support of it, but for those which his colleague had produced against it; not because it was more smooth, but because it contained more of decision and firmness. He thought, in this respect, this country had been trifled with, and any opinion expressed by them upon this subject ought to be done with a firmness of tone.

The question on Mr. Pinckney's amendment was put and carried, there being sixty-two members in the affirmative.

The remainder of the Address was then gone through, without further observation.

Mr. Otis, from the committee appointed to wait upon the President, to know when and where it would be convenient for him to receive the Address in answer to his Speech, reported that they had attended to that service, and that it would be convenient for him to receive it at his house to-morrow at twelve o'clock.

Wednesday, November 29.

Address to the President.

Mr. Lyon said, when the motion was proposed yesterday on the subject of waiting upon the President, he should have opposed it, only that he did not wish to deprive some gentlemen of the gratification of attending the ceremony; and now he hoped those gentlemen would consent to gratify him by agreeing to a similar resolution to that of last session, excusing him from an attendance upon the occasion.

Mr. Macon observed, that whether the resolution was agreed to or not, the gentleman might doubtless remain behind if he chose, as he had no idea that the House could compel members to go about parading the streets of Philadelphia. The gentleman might have conscientious scruples, and if the ceremony were meant to be respectful to the President, members should attend it freely, or not at all. He should wish, therefore, that gentlemen disinclined to do the service, would not join it.

Mr. Otis hoped the motion would not prevail. He presumed no gentleman there was particularly anxious for the society of the gentleman from Vermont on this occasion. No doubt he would grace the procession, but it would be sufficiently long without him, and if he chose to remain behind, he need be under no apprehensions of being called to account for his conduct. It was not becoming the dignity of the House to pass the resolution in question. It appeared to him that the gentleman was in full health and spirits, and every way fit for business; and as the House had resolved the thing should be done, he had no idea of admitting the protest of an individual upon their journals against the measure.

Mr. Gallatin said he should be in favor of the previous question, but not for the reasons assigned by the mover of it, but for those offered by the gentleman from North Carolina, (Mr. Macon,) viz: because he did not believe there existed any power in that House to compel any member to wait upon the President with the Address; therefore it would be improper to grant an indulgence to a member from doing what there was no obligation upon him to do. He did not recollect the words of the resolution which had been agreed to. [The Speaker repeated them. They were, "that the Speaker, attended by the House of Representatives, shall wait upon the President, &c."] This, Mr. G. said, must be understood in a qualified sense, as the House of Representatives had no existence out of those walls. When the Speaker presented the Address, the House was not present; they could not debate nor do any act as a House. The Address was, therefore, strictly speaking, presented by the Speaker, followed by the members of the House of Representatives—as he did not conceive the House had any power without the walls of the house. They could, indeed, appoint committees to do business out of doors, but could not call out the members as a body. Upon this ground he was, therefore, in favor of the previous question.

Mr. Lyon said, understanding the matter in the light in which it had been placed by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, he would withdraw his motion.

The Speaker announced the arrival of the hour which the President of the United States had appointed to receive the Address of the House in answer to his Speech; and the Speaker, attended by the members, accordingly waited upon the President, at his house, and presented to him the Address: to which the President made the following reply:

Gentlemen of the House of Representatives:

I receive this Address from the House of Representatives of the United States with peculiar interest.

Your approbation of the meeting of Congress in this city, and of those other measures of the Executive authority of Government communicated in my Address to both Houses, at the opening of the session, afford me great satisfaction, as the strongest desire of my heart is to give satisfaction to the people and their representatives by a faithful discharge of my duty.

The confidence you express in the sincerity of my endeavors, and the unanimity of the people, does me much honor, and gives me great joy.

I rejoice in that harmony which appears in the sentiments of all the branches of the Government, on the importance of our commerce and our obligations to defend it, as well as in all other subjects recommended to your consideration, and sincerely congratulate you and our fellow-citizens at large on this appearance, so auspicious to the honor, interest, and happiness of the nation.

JOHN ADAMS.

United States, November 29, 1797.

The Speaker and members then returned to the House, and order being obtained, the Speaker, as usual, read the Answer of the President from the chair.

Thursday, November 30.

Thompson J. Skinner, from Massachusetts, appeared, and took his seat.

Memorial of Quakers.

Mr. Gallatin presented the following memorial of certain citizens, called Quakers, in the name of the annual meeting of that body, lately held in Philadelphia.

To the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States in Congress assembled:

The memorial and address of the people called Quakers, from their yearly meeting held in Philadelphia, by adjournments from the 25th of the 9th month, to the 29th of the same, inclusive, 1797, respectfully showeth:

That, being convened, at this our annual solemnity, for the promotion of the cause of truth and righteousness, we have been favored to experience religious weight to attend our minds, and an anxious desire to follow after those things which make for peace; among other investigations the oppressed state of our brethren of the African race has been brought into view, and particularly the circumstances of one hundred and thirty-four in North Carolina, and many others whose cases have not so fully come to our knowledge, who were set free by members of our religious society, and again reduced into cruel bondage, under the authority of existing or retrospective laws; husbands and wives, and children, separated, one from another; which, we apprehend to be an abominable tragedy, and with other acts, of a similar nature, practised in other States, has a tendency to bring down the judgments of a righteous God upon our land.

This city and neighborhood, and some other parts, have been visited with an awful calamity, which ought to excite an inquiry in the cause and endeavors to do away those things which occasion the heavy clouds that hang over us. It is easy with the Almighty to bring down the loftiness of men by diversified judgments, and to make them fear the rod and Him that hath appointed it.

We wish to revive in your view the solemn engagement of Congress, made in the year one thousand seven hundred and seventy-four, as follows:

"And, therefore, we do for ourselves, and the inhabitants of the several colonies, whom we represent, firmly agree and associate, under the sacred ties of virtue, honor, and love of our country, as follows:

"Article 2. We will neither import nor purchase any slaves imported after the first day of December next, after which time we will wholly discontinue the slave trade, and will neither be concerned in it ourselves, nor will we hire our vessels, nor sell our commodities or manufactures to those who are concerned in it.

"Article 3. And will discountenance and discourage every species of extravagance and dissipation, especially horse-racing, and all kinds of gaming, cock-fighting, exhibitions of shows, plays, and other expensive diversions and entertainments."

This was a solemn league and covenant, made with the Almighty in an hour of distress, and He is now calling upon you to perform and fulfil it; but how has this solemn covenant been contravened by the wrongs and cruelties practised upon the poor African race, the increase of dissipation and luxury, and the countenance and encouragement given to play-houses, and other vain amusements! And how grossly is the Almighty affronted on the day of the celebration of Independence! What rioting and drunkenness, chambering and wantonness! to the great grief of sober inhabitants, and the disgrace of our national character.

National evils produce national judgments; we therefore fervently pray the Governor of the Universe may enlighten your understandings and influence your minds, so as to engage you to use every exertion in your power, to have these things redressed.

With sincere desires for your happiness here and hereafter, and that, when you come to close this life, you may individually be able to appeal as a ruler did formerly: "Remember now, O Lord, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee, in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight."

We remain your friends and fellow-citizens.

Signed in and on behalf of the said meeting, by

JONATHAN EVANS, Clerk to the meeting this year.

The memorial having been read by the Clerk,

Mr. Gallatin moved that it be read a second time.

Mr. Harper hoped not. This was not the first, second, or third time, that the House had been troubled with similar applications, which had a tendency to stir up a class of persons to inflict calamities which would be of greater consequence than any evils which were at present suffered; and this, and every other Legislature, ought to set their faces against remonstrances complaining of what it was utterly impossible to alter.

Mr. Thatcher hoped the petition would have a second reading, and be committed. It appeared to him that this would be the regular way of getting rid of the difficulty which was apprehended. The gentleman who had just sat down said, that this was not the first, second, or third time, that the House had been troubled with similar petitions. This, he said, was natural. If any number of persons considered themselves aggrieved, it was not likely they should leave off petitioning, until the House should act upon their petition. He thought this was what they ought to do. If the Quakers thought themselves aggrieved, it was their duty to present their petition, not only three, five, or seven times, but seventy times, until it was attended to.

Mr. Rutledge should not be opposed to the second reading and reference of this memorial, if he thought the strong censure they deserved would be the report of a committee. This censure, he thought, this body of men ought to have; a set of men who attempt to seduce the servants of gentlemen travelling to the seat of Government, who were incessantly importuning Congress to interfere in a business with which the constitution had said they had no concern. If he was sure this conduct would be reprobated, he would cheerfully vote for a reference of the present petition; but not believing this would be the case, he should be for its laying on the table, or under the table, that they might not only have done with the business for to-day, but finally. At a time when some nations were witnesses of the most barbarous and horrid scenes, these petitioners are endeavoring to incite a class of persons to the commission of similar enormities. He thought the matter of the greatest importance, and that the reference ought by no means to be made.

Mr. Swanwick was sorry to see so much heat produced by the introduction of this petition. He himself could see no reason why the petition should not be dealt with in the ordinary way. If the petitioners asked for any thing which it was not in the power of the House to grant, it would be of course refused; but this was no reason why their petition should not be treated with ordinary respect. In this memorial, he said, sundry things were complained of; not only slavery, but several other grievances. For instance, play-houses were complained of, whether justly or not, he was not about to decide. With respect to the grievance mentioned in North Carolina, something perhaps might be done to remedy it, without affecting the property which gentlemen seemed so much alarmed about. He could not suppose there was a disposition in the House to violate the property of any man; there was certainly as strong a disposition in the Middle States as in the Southern, to hold inviolable the right of property; nor could he see any reasonable ground for throwing this petition under the table. If these people were wrong in their understanding of this subject, it would be best to appoint a committee to set them right.

Mr. Gallatin said it was the practice of the House, whenever a memorial was presented, to have it read a first and a second time, and then to commit it, unless it were expressed in such indecent terms as to induce the House to reject it, or upon a subject upon which petitions had been lately rejected by a large majority of the House. In no other case were petitions rejected without examination and without discussion. He said, without examination and without discussion, because it was impossible, upon a single reading of a petition, to be able to form a sound judgment upon it. Indeed, seeing the way in which the gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Rutledge) had treated the subject, no cool examination could be expected at present; in the moment of passion it would be best not to decide, but to send the petition to a committee. What was the objection to this mode of proceeding? It was that the subject would shake a certain kind of property. How so? A petition that reminds us of the fate of certain blacks in this country, which did not refer to slaves, but to free men. This petition was to shake property! In the same manner it might be said that the law of Pennsylvania for the gradual abolition of slavery had also a tendency to destroy that property; or that the Legislative decision of the State of Massachusetts that there shall be no slaves under their Government, would have that effect. But it was said the characters of the petitioners was such as they ought to brand with the mark of disapprobation.

In support of this charge, it was alleged that they were not satisfied with petitioning, but they attempted to debauch and seduce servants—to rob gentlemen of their property. He did not know to what the gentleman who made this assertion alluded; but he believed, if the matter was fairly stated, whatever may have been done in the State of Pennsylvania, has been no more than an endeavor to carry into full effect the laws of the State, which say, that "all men are free when they set their foot within the State," excepting only the servants of Members of Congress.[25] As to the moral character of this body of people, though a number of their principles were different from those which he professed, he believed it could not be said, with truth, that they were friends to any kind of disorder; and he was surprised to hear gentlemen suppose that they could or would do any thing which would throw into disorder any part of the Union. On the contrary, he believed them to be good friends of order. Mr. G. said he wished to have avoided a discussion of the merits of the memorial; but when they were told it was improper to do any thing on the subject, it became necessary. He knew it was in their power to do something. They might lay a duty of ten dollars a head on the importation of slaves; he knew a memorial had been presented at a former session respecting the kidnapping of negroes, which had been favorably reported upon. Finally, the present memorial did not apply only to the blacks, but to other objects. With respect to plays, they had a motion last session before them for laying a tax upon them, which had a reference to the subject. By committing this memorial, they should give no decision. If the committee reported they could do nothing in the business, and the House agreed to the report, the matter would be closed in a much more respectful way than by throwing the petition under the table.

Mr. Sewall said, the gentleman last up had stated two cases in which petitions had been received without a commitment. He might have added a third, more applicable to the present memorial. This was when a petition was upon matter over which this House had no cognizance, especially if it were of such a nature as to excite disagreeable sensations in one part of the House, who were concerned in property which was already held under circumstances sufficiently disagreeable. In such cases, they ought at once to reject the memorial, as it would be misspending time to commit it. If, for instance, a petition should be presented, complaining that a person had refused to discharge an obligation to another, it would be at once acknowledged that the House could not enforce the obligation; but application must be made to a court of justice. So in this case; the petitioners complain of a law of North Carolina. This House, he said, could not change that law. If any thing was done there contrary to right, the courts of that State, as well as those of the United States, were open to afford redress. It was their business, and not the business of that House. They did not come there to act upon subjects agreeable to their feelings, but upon such as the constitution had placed in their hands.

Mr. Macon said, there was not a gentleman in North Carolina who did not wish there were no blacks in the country. It was a misfortune—he considered it as a curse; but there was no way of getting rid of them. Instead of peace-makers, he looked upon the Quakers as war-makers, as they were continually endeavoring in the Southern States to stir up insurrections amongst the negroes.[26] It was unconstitutional, he said, in these men to desire the House to do what they had no power to do; as well might they ask the President of the United States to come and take the Speaker's chair. There was a law in North Carolina, he said, which forbade any person from holding either a black or white person as a slave after he had been set at liberty. The one hundred and thirty-four negroes alluded to in the petition, he knew nothing of. In the war, he said, the Quakers in their State were generally Tories. They began to set free their negroes, when the State passed a law that they should not set them free. If these people were dissatisfied with the law, they had nothing to do but transport their negroes into Pennsylvania, where, the gentleman from that State had told them, they would be immediately free. This subject had already been before the House, but they declined doing any thing in it. It was extraordinary that these people should come, session after session, with their petitions on this subject. They had put play-houses into their memorial; but they had nothing to do with them. In this State, he believed, the Legislature had passed a law authorizing them. It was altogether a matter of State policy. The whole petition was, indeed, unnecessary. The only object seemed to be to sow dissension. A petition could not come there touching any subject on which they had power to act, which he should not be in favor of committing; but this thing being wrong in itself, it was needless to commit it, as no single purpose could be answered by it.

Mr. Isaac Parker was of opinion with the gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Gallatin,) with respect to the disposal of petitions. But it appeared to him that the subject matter of all petitions should be within the view and authority of the House; if not, to refer them would certainly be a waste of time. He had attended to the petition, and he did not think there was a single object upon which it was in their power to act. Nothing was prayed for. The petitioners speak of the slave trade, and, in general terms, of the immorality of the times, as injurious to the state of society; and wish some means may be taken to prevent the growth of them. To refer a petition of this sort, therefore, to a committee would answer no purpose. He did not think they were more obliged to take up the business than if they had read the address in a newspaper.

Mr. Bayard said it might be inferred, from the anxiety and warmth of gentlemen, that the question before them was, whether slavery should or should not be abolished. The present was, however, very remote from such a question, as it was merely whether a memorial should be read a second time. The contents of this memorial, he said, were right or wrong, reasonable or unreasonable; if right, it was proper it should go to a committee; and if wrong, if so clearly absurd as it had been represented, where would be the evil of a reference for a report thereon? He did not like things to be decided in the moment of passion, but from the fullest consideration. In some countries they knew persons accused of crimes were condemned without a hearing; but there could be but one sentiment as to the injustice of such a proceeding. There could be no objection, therefore, upon general principles, to the reference of this petition. But it was said it was not to be sent, because of the general habits of this society. He believed there was no body of men more respectable; they were obedient, and contributed cheerfully to the support of Government; and, either politically or civilly speaking, as few crimes could be imputed to that body as to any other.

This memorial, he said, had been treated as coming from an Abolition Society—it was a memorial of the General Meeting of the people called Quakers; and if only out of respect to that body, it ought to be referred. But it was said it did not contain matter upon which the House could act. Gentlemen seemed not to have attended to the subject-matter of the petition. He did not believe that the House had the power to manumit slaves, but he believed there was not a word in the petition which had a reference to slavery. The petitioners state, indeed, that a number of negroes, not slaves, for negroes may be free, had been taken again into slavery, after they had been freed by their masters. He wished to know whether the House had not jurisdiction over this matter? He was warranted by the constitution in saying they had, because that instrument says that no State shall make ex post facto laws. It belonged to that House, therefore, to see that the constitution was respected, as it could not be expected from the justice of the individual States, that they would repeal such laws. It rested, therefore, with the Government of the United States to do it. Mr. B. read the clause of the constitution touching this matter, and concluded by reminding the House that this was not an ultimate decision, but merely a reference.

Mr. Josiah Parker said he was always inclined to lend a favorable ear to petitioners of every kind, but when a memorial was presented to the House contrary to the nature of the government, he should consent to its lying on the table or under it. No one, he said, could say they had a right to legislate respecting the proceedings of any individual State; they, therefore, had no power to decide on the conduct of the citizens of North Carolina in the matter complained of. Petitions had frequently come from Quakers and others on the subject; whereas this Government had nothing to do with negro slavery, except that they might lay a tax upon the importation of slaves. He recollected, when the subject was brought before the House in the first Congress held at New York, wishing to put a stop to the slave trade as much as possible, being a friend of liberty, he took every step in his power, and brought forward a proposition for laying a tax of ten dollars upon every slave imported. It was not agreed to; but there was only one State (Georgia) in which the importation of slaves was admitted. Since the establishment of this Government, Mr. P. said, the situation of slaves was much ameliorated, and any interference now might have the effect to make their masters more severe. He knew of no part of the constitution which gave them power over horse-racing and cock-fighting, nor could they interfere with respect to play-houses; and where they had no right to legislate, they had no right to speak at all. As the session had begun harmoniously, he hoped that harmony would not be broken in upon by such applications as the present. Mr. P. produced a precedent from the journals of 1792, where a memorial of Warner Mifflin, a Quaker, after being read, was ordered to lie on the table, and two days afterwards returned to the memorialist.

Mr. Nicholas felt as much as other gentlemen from the Southern States on the subject of the present petition, but his feelings did not produce the same effect. He was not afraid of an interference from the United States with their property, nor of any investigations or discussions respecting it. He believed it would be to the honor of people holding property in slaves, that the business should be looked into. He thought such an inquiry would rather secure than injure their property. He did not think it was the interest of slaveholders to cover improper practices. He was satisfied, that in the part of the country where he lived, there was no disposition to protect injuries—no disposition to reject an inquiry, or to refuse to understand a complaint. They had been told that the state of the negroes, whose cases were mentioned in the memorial, might be produced by the fugitive law; they had before heard that this law had operated mischievously. It ought, therefore, to be inquired into. On inquiry, Mr. N. said, it would not be found the fault of the Southern States that slavery was tolerated, but their misfortune; but to liberate their slaves at once, would be to act like madmen; it would be to injure all parts of the United States as well as those who possess slaves. It was their duty, however, to remedy evils; they were unfortunately placed in a situation which obliged them to hold slaves, but they did not wish to extend the mischief. He should, indeed, be sorry if his possessing property of this kind, obliged him to cover the violation of another man's right; if this were the case, he should think it necessary that his property should be taken from him. He did not think it necessary, and he doubted not, if a fair investigation took place, that this kind of property would be brought into the situation in which every man of sense would place it. He was firmly of an opinion, that to appear to be afraid of an inquiry would do more harm to this property than a fair investigation. He trusted, therefore, the petition would be committed.

Mr. Blount hoped this memorial would not be committed. As this was not the first time the society of Quakers had come forward with petitions to the House, seemingly with no other view than to fix an odium on the State of North Carolina, he thought it his duty positively to contradict a fact stated in this memorial. It was stated that 134 persons, set free from slavery in North Carolina, had been since enslaved by cruel retrospective, or ex post facto laws; they alleged that certain members of their society had done what no person was permitted to do. Mr. B. read part of a law of North Carolina, stating "that no negro or mulatto slave shall be set free, except for meritorious services, acknowledged by a license of the court; and when any person shall be set free contrary to this law, he may be seized and sold as a slave," &c. He also read a clause from another law, passed afterwards, stating that several persons having set at liberty their slaves contrary to law, and persons having taken up and sold them, are doubtful of the validity of the sale, and that this law is passed to do away all doubts of such validity. Mr. B. said these extracts proved the assertion untrue.

Mr. Gordon lamented that this discussion had taken place, as it was certain that wherever interest is concerned, some degree of warmth will be produced; and when a petition was brought forward which might affect the property of many gentlemen in this House, and their constituents, it could not be expected they would hear it with the same calmness with persons wholly unconcerned about it. All that had been advanced in favor of the second reading of the petition was, the respectability of the persons presenting it, the opinion that would be entertained of the petitioners, if their petition was not referred, and the merits of the petition itself.

With respect to the persons of the petitioners, he felt inclined to do them every justice; but he did not think this any reason for acting upon their memorial, unless some good consequence could arise from it, any more than if they were the vilest persons on earth. As to the opinion that might be entertained out of doors, as the petition was not examined, he was not afraid that the citizens of the United States would believe that the House could be so far lost to its duty as not to look into a question of this kind, but that it would be conceived, if rejected, that they had nothing to do with it. The other reason, the only material one, was to the merits of the petition. The gentleman from Delaware, (Mr. Bayard,) who had examined the business with much coolness and ability, had stated that a certain ex post facto law of North Carolina had occasioned grievances. Admitting there was such a law, what could the House do? Could they declare a law of North Carolina null and void? There would be no utility in this; but if there was a law in North Carolina that violated the constitution, there was a clear remedy in the law which organizes the Judical department of the United States, in which it is said, if any law of an individual State interferes with a law of the United States, a person has a right to take advantage of the law of the United States. There was no necessity, therefore, to call upon Congress for a remedy against this law. Indeed, he saw nothing in this memorial which called for their interference, and he was therefore against a reference, as a further discussion of it would only produce uneasiness in certain parts of the United States, without producing any good.

Mr. Rutledge observed, that notwithstanding all that had been said, considering the present extraordinary state of the West India Islands and of Europe, he should insist that "sufficient for the day is the evil thereof," and that they ought to shut their doors against any thing which had a tendency to produce the like confusion in this country. If this were not done, the confidence of a great part of the Union in the General Government would be weakened. In the Southern States, where most of their property consisted of slaves, and where the rest was of no value without them, there was already a prejudice existing that the Northern and Eastern States were inimical to this kind of property, though they were bound by the constitution from an interference with it; but when they heard of the House giving countenance to a petition like the present, it would increase their uneasiness. He referred to what had fallen from the gentleman from Delaware respecting ex post facto law, and thought a court of justice the proper tribunal to settle that business. Mr. R. said he was indisposed, notwithstanding the high panegyrics which had been passed upon the body of Quakers, to withdraw the censures he had cast upon them. The gentleman from New York had doubted the charges which he had produced, and said such things could never be attempted by the body. It was true, they did not come in a body into his lodging to seduce his servant, but individuals did it. But why, he asked, do these men come here in a body? Because they believe that their presence will give more weight to their petition; so that they appeared in bodies, or as individuals, to answer their purposes. Gentlemen had charged the opposers of the petition with heat; he thought there was as much heat on one side as the other.

Mr. Edmond did not believe there was any real ground of irritation in the question; as no gentleman could suppose they were about to do any thing which was either unconstitutional, or which would affect their property. Whether the persons who presented the memorial are virtuous or vicious, was of no consequence, since justice was due to both classes of men. They had brought a petition before them, and they ought to consider it. It was addressed to their honesty or justice; if the facts were claims upon their honesty or justice they should be attended to; and not only attended to, but, if possible, relief granted. It was stated that there were a number of persons held in bondage who were justly entitled to liberty.

This fact called for examination; and a question arose, if it were established, whether that House could afford redress. A gentleman from North Carolina (Mr. Blount) had stated that the fact was not true; it was certainly, therefore, worth while to be inquired into. Another gentleman had said, if the fact were as stated, they had no power to act; and a third was of opinion that, by the constitution, redress might be afforded. This diversity of opinion showed the necessity of an investigation of the subject, in order to determine the jurisdiction of the House. He wished it for another reason. It had been stated, that if this petition were attended to, it would open a door to faction and mischief. Can it have this effect? These people bring forward a petition stating a number of facts; they certainly do not come forward for the mere design of exciting disorder in any quarter. If the House say they will throw their petition under the table, would not such treatment give the factious some ground of clamor by which to sow dissension? But if, on the contrary, they coolly looked into the petition, and reported thereon, would it not stop the mouths of these people? It certainly would; since they could not then say common justice was refused to the petitioners. Again; having once investigated the subject fully, if petitions of a similar kind should hereafter come forward, it would be reasonably said, this matter has already been taken up and fully decided upon; and, therefore, we will not again go into it. Until this was done, the factious would doubtless have cause of complaint.

Mr. Blount said, several gentlemen who had spoken on this subject seemed to express themselves as if they believed there was no punishment for individuals reducing to slavery persons who had been manumitted. He read an extract from a law, passed in 1779, in North Carolina, by which the punishment of death is awarded against such an offence.

Mr. Macon read the proceedings of the House on the petition respecting the kidnapping of negroes, in order to show that the gentleman from New York (Mr. Livingston) had misstated the issue of the business. The last report on the subject was that it would be best to leave the regulation of the subject to the Legislatures of the several States. Mr. M. allowed that his reflections upon the whole body of Quakers were too general, and he had no hesitation in retracting them; but he believed a number of them were guilty of the charges brought against them by the gentleman from South Carolina.

Mr. Thatcher said, if, when the motion was first made, he had been against it, from what had fallen from gentlemen on the subject, he should now be in favor of it; for, notwithstanding they opposed the second reading of the petition, they were filing off in squads to read it, and ready to fight for a sight of it. He believed, therefore, they had some reasons for opposing the second reading, which did not appear. He referred to what had been said by the gentleman from North Carolina, as to the fact stated in the petition, and said that, notwithstanding the laws which he had read, the fact might be true; but that this very doubt about the fact was an additional reason for going into the inquiry.

Gentlemen had said, however good and virtuous the petitioners might be, it ought to have no effect upon the petition; if this were true, he hoped when they were represented as the worst of men, that representation was not meant to influence their decision on the question. Mr. T. could not conceive for what purpose they were carried to Europe, to witness the scenes which had taken place there for the last ten years. Was this, he asked, the state of society? If he thought so, if it had the faintest resemblance of what was taking place there, he would fly from it to the uttermost parts of the earth, and there make his habitation. Mr. T. wished an inquiry to take place; there was a part of the United States in which slavery was tolerated—some of the members from those parts thought it not right; there were other parts of the Union which disclaimed it. These two opposing principles were like two opposite powers in mechanism, which produced rest; but, the more frequently the subject was looked into, the more mitigated would be its effects.

The question was taken for the second reading of the petition, and carried—53 votes being in the affirmative.

Mr. Gallatin moved that it be referred to a select committee.

Mr. Coit wished it to be referred to the Committee of the Whole, to whom was referred the petition on the subject of kidnapping negroes, &c.

Mr. Rutledge thought a select committee would be best, as stage-plays, cock-fighting, horse-racing, and other evils, would, of course, be considered.

The question for reference to a select committee was put and carried—59 members being in the affirmative.

Five members being agreed upon to form the committee, the Speaker named Messrs. Sitgreaves, Nicholas, Dana, Schureman, and S. Smith, for the purpose.

The House adjourned.

Friday, December 1.

A new member, to wit: Joseph Heister, returned to serve in this House as a member for the State of Pennsylvania, in the room of George Ege, who has resigned his seat, appeared, produced his credentials, and took his seat in the House.

Several other members, to wit: from Pennsylvania, Andrew Gregg; from Kentucky, Thomas T. Davis; and from North Carolina, Nathan Bryan, and Dempsey Burges, appeared and took their seats in the House.

The Clerk then informed the House that he had heard from a member of the Senate that the Speaker was indisposed; so much so that he was not able to communicate his indisposition to the House in writing.

Mr. Dent said, this being the case, he should move that the orders for this day be further postponed till Monday; which motion being agreed to, the Clerk, on motion, adjourned the House till Monday morning, at 11 o'clock.

Monday, December 4.

Thomas Sumter, from South Carolina, appeared, and took his seat.

Publication of Debates.

Mr. Dwight Foster presented the petition of Thomas Carpenter, stating that he was the editor of the American Senator, published during the session of Congress ending in March last; that, at the commencement of that session, he presented a memorial to the House, praying its support of his work; that the House had declined supporting it as a body, but receiving individual assurances of support from many of the members, he had been induced to engage in the work; but the event had proved unfavorable to him. He hoped now, therefore, that he should be recompensed, by the House engaging to take three copies for each member of the work he proposed to publish this session, (provided he met with the support he prayed for,) which, computing the session at eighteen weeks, he supposed would not amount to more than $2,250.

Mr. D. Foster moved that this petition be referred to a select committee.

Mr. Coit objected to a reference. The House, he said, had so often determined to have nothing to do with the publication of the debates, that he thought it time to have done with the subject. He hoped, therefore, the petition might lie upon the table.

Mr. Foster and Mr. Thatcher spoke in favor of the committal; and the motion was put and carried, and a committee of three members appointed to report thereon.

Thursday, December 7.

Amy Dardin.

Mr. T. Claiborne said, that during the last Winter, a report had been made by the Committee of Claims, on the petition of Amy Dardin, unfavorable to the petitioner, which, after full discussion, had been disagreed to by the House; and on the 24th of February a motion for appointing a committee to bring in a bill for her relief was made and committed to a Committee of the Whole, but for want of time had not been acted upon. He now wished to bring the matter before the House, and for that purpose moved that a committee be appointed to bring in a bill for the relief of Amy Dardin.

This motion met with opposition. It will, perhaps, be recollected that this, though a strong claim, in point of justice, is directly in the face of the Limitation Act. Messrs. Macon, Sitgreaves, and Harper, wished the matter to go again to the Committee of Claims, as many members now in the House were unacquainted with the merits of the claim; and the latter gentleman, because he thought the House had been surprised into a decision, contrary to fifty other determinations on similar questions, which ought now to be reversed.

Mr. Claiborne opposed this course, and trusted the House would again be influenced by the justice of the claim, to act as they had heretofore done, by passing a bill for the relief of the petitioner.

Mr. Gallatin thought it would be best to commit the business to the same Committee of the Whole to which they had yesterday referred a report of the Committee of Claims on the subject of excepting a certain description of claims from the operation of that act.

The business was, however, closed by Mr. Claiborne's withdrawing his motion for the present.

Monday, December 11.

Two other members, to wit: James Gillespie and Joseph McDowell, from the State of North Carolina, appeared and took their seats.

Tuesday, December 12.

Acts of Limitation.

Mr. Gallatin called for the order of the day on the report of the Committee of Claims, to whom it was referred to inquire into and report on the expediency or inexpediency of designating certain claims against the United States to be excepted from the operation of the acts of limitation; which being agreed to, the House accordingly resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the subject, Mr. Dent in the chair. The report was read, as follows:

The Committee of Claims who were "instructed to inquire into, and report on, the expediency or inexpediency of designating certain claims against the United States, to be excepted from the operation of the acts of limitation," report:

That, in obedience to the orders of the House, they have made all the inquiries which to them appear necessary; that they have attentively and deliberately considered the subject referred to them; and are of opinion that it would not be expedient to designate any species of claims against the United States which are now affected by the acts of limitation, to be excepted from the operation of those acts.

In considering this subject, a review of the situation of the United States, as respected their finances, during the period when most of the demands originated, was requisite. It was also necessary to ascertain what measures had been adopted by Congress, both under the old and under the present government, to bring all the demands against the States to a liquidation and settlement.

It will be recollected, that, at the commencement of the war, the United States were destitute of money; and during a long period of years afterwards, were obliged to rely principally on credit, for carrying on all their important operations.

Having, at that time, no settled National Government, a regular system for conducting public business, especially money transactions, depending on credit, was not to be expected.

Great numbers of individuals were necessarily invested with the power of binding the public by their contracts. Almost every officer of the Army, whether in the Commissary's Department or otherwise, in different stages of the war, had it in his power to contract debts legally or equitably binding upon the United States. We find Congress, at various times, during the war, endeavoring to make arrangements which should prevent an undue use of the powers vested in individuals, and the dangerous consequences to which the Government was thereby necessarily exposed. The acts of the 5th of March, 1779, and of the 23d of August, 1780, were calculated to limit the public responsibility in such cases. After the peace, and under the old Government, periods were prescribed, within which claims of certain descriptions, and finally all unliquidated claims, were to be exhibited for settlement, or to be for ever thereafter barred.

It must be acknowledged by all, that during those periods every provision which could rationally have been expected was made for the accommodation of individuals having claims against the public, to enable them to obtain proper settlements of their demands. The journals of Congress under the confederation will abundantly justify this remark.

Commissioners were appointed, with special or general powers, to settle the claims of individuals in all the departments; and, in every instance, the powers given were plenary and explicit. Sufficient time was given for every one to obtain information and pursue his remedy; and ample opportunity was given for all to substantiate their claims, or, at least, to present abstracts of them, which would have prevented their being foreclosed by the acts designed eventually to operate upon them. The cases cannot be numerous, in which the want of opportunity to bring forward claims can be justly pleaded as an excuse for the omission.

By the act of the 17th of March, 1785, all persons having unliquidated claims against the United States were required, within twelve months, to exhibit particular abstracts of such claims, to some of the Commissioners in the State in which they respectively resided, who were sent and empowered to settle accounts against the United States, under the penalty or condition that accounts not so presented, should be thereafter settled only at the Treasury.

By another act of Congress, of the same year, viz: November 2d, 1785, all persons having claims for services performed in the military department, were directed to exhibit the same for liquidation to the Commissioners of Army accounts, on or before the first day of August, then ensuing. By that act it was expressly resolved, that all claims, under the description above mentioned, which might be exhibited after that period, should be for ever thereafter precluded from adjustment and allowance.

And it was provided, by the act of July 23d, 1787, that all persons having unliquidated claims against the United States, pertaining to the late Commissaries', Quartermaster's, Hospital, Clothier's, or Marine department, should exhibit particular abstracts of such claims to the proper Commissioner appointed to settle the accounts of those departments, within eight months from the date of the said act; and all persons having other unliquidated claims against the United States, were to exhibit particular abstracts thereof to the Comptroller of the Treasury of the United States, within one year from the date thereof; and all accounts not exhibited as aforesaid, were to be precluded from settlement or allowance.

These regulations were adopted by Congress under the old Government. Great care was taken to have them extensively published, so that every individual who was interested might be informed of their existence and operation.

Under the present constitution there has not been wanting a disposition to relieve certain individuals whose claims were considered as peculiarly meritorious, which had been affected by the acts above recorded.

With this view, in March, 1792, two several acts of Congress were passed, suspending for two years the operation of the resolutions of Congress of November 2d, 1785, and July 27th, 1787, so far as they had barred or might be construed to bar the claims of the widow or orphans of any officer of the late army, to the seven years' half pay of such officer; or the claims of any officer, soldier, artificer, sailor, and marine, of the Army of the United States, for personal services rendered to the United States in the military or naval departments.

In consequence of these suspensions, many claims were exhibited, and allowed against the Government. There is reason to apprehend, in some instances, the public were defrauded for want of proper pre-existing checks and evidences of payments being made. This suspension continued for the term of two years, which was till March, 1794. In the mean time, viz: on the 12th of February, 1793, the act "relative to claims against the United States, not barred by any act of limitation, and which had not been already adjusted," was passed by Congress, after a serious and attentive consideration of the subject.

By that law it was provided, "that all claims upon the United States for services or supplies, or for other cause, matter, or thing, furnished or done, previous to the 4th day of March, 1789, whether founded upon certificates, written documents from public officers, or otherwise, which had not already been barred by any act of limitation, and which should not be presented at the Treasury before the first day of May, 1794, should for ever after be barred and precluded from settlement or allowance." But this was not to be construed as affecting Loan Office certificates, certificates of final settlements, indents of interest, balances entered on the books of the Register of the Treasury, registered certificates, foreign loans, or certificates issued under the act making provision for the public debt of the United States.

One other act, passed the 3d day of March, 1795, provided that Loan Office certificates, final settlements, and indents of interest, then outstanding, should be presented at the office of the Auditor of the Treasury, on or before the first day of January, in the present year, 1797, or be for ever after barred or precluded from settlement or allowance.

The summary contains a general view of the principal acts of limitation, by which claims against the public have been affected.

From an attentive consideration of them, and of the circumstances under which they were enacted, the committee are fully impressed with an opinion that it would not be expedient to suspend their operation.

Some remarks extracted from a report heretofore made to Congress, are subjoined by the committee, as pertinent to the subject.

It was essential to the public administration that the extent of just demands upon the Government should be, within a reasonable period, definitely ascertained. It was essential to public safety and to right, in relation to the whole community, that all unsettled claims should be made known within a time when there were yet means of proper investigation, and after which the public responsibility should terminate, and the possibility of charging the Government by collusive and fictitious contracts, should be at an end.

The justice as well as policy of acts of limitation, under such circumstances, cannot be doubted.[27]

The situation of no country ever presented a more clear necessity for, or a more competent justification of, precautions of that nature. And all the reasons for adopting them operate to recommend unusual caution in departing from them, with the additional force of this circumstance, that the subsequent lapse of time has increased the difficulties of a due examination.

The accounts of a considerable number of officers, who had it in their power to bind the public by their contracts, and who were intrusted with large sums of money for fulfilling their engagements, remain unsettled. Some of those persons are dead; others have absconded; the business has been conducted by others with so little order as to put it out of their power to render a proper statement of their transactions. The books and papers of others, who had extensive trusts, have been destroyed, so as to preclude the possibility of settlement. Hence it must appear that the Government would, in a great number of cases, be destitute of the means of repelling unfounded and even satisfied claims, for want of documents and vouchers, which only could have resulted from a due settlement with those officers, and from the possession of their books and papers.

It might be inferred without proof, and it has appeared in the course of business at the Treasury, that it was a practice with certain public officers, on obtaining supplies, to give receipts and certificates for them, and when they made payments, either partially or totally, to take distinct receipts from the parties, without either endorsing the payment upon the original vouchers or requiring a surrender of them.

Hence it would often happen that parties could produce satisfactory vouchers of their having performed services and furnished supplies, for which, though satisfaction may have been made, the evidences of it would not be in the possession of the Government. And hence, from relaxations of the limitation acts, there would be great danger that much more injustice would be done to the United States than justice to individuals.

The principles of self-defence, therefore, require and justify an adherence to those acts generally; and there are not any particular species of claims, which, in view of the committee, ought to be exempted from their operation.

Those which have been most frequently referred to by some members of the House, are such claims as include the arrearages of pay and other emoluments to officers and soldiers of the late army, &c.

Pursuant to an order of the House at the first session of the present Congress, a report was made to them, having special reference to this subject. It was considered in Committee of the Whole, and agreed to by the House on the fifth day of February, 1796. To that report and the documents accompanying the same, the committee ask leave to refer the House, and respectfully submit the whole subject to their consideration.

Wednesday, December 13.

John Wilkes Kittera, from Pennsylvania, appeared, and took his seat in the House.

Friday, December 15.

A new member, to wit, Peleg Sprague, from New Hampshire, in place of Jeremiah Smith, resigned, appeared, produced his credentials, was qualified, and took his seat.

Thursday, December 24.

Amy Dardin.

Mr. T. Claiborne moved that the report of the Committee of Claims, on the petition of Amy Dardin, be referred to a Committee of the Whole.

The Speaker said, that the report having been negatived at a former session, and a bill brought in for her relief, but not decided upon, the proper motion would be to appoint a committee to bring in a bill.

Mr. Claiborne made that motion, which Mr. Coit moved to be referred to the Committee of Claims, in order that they might report the facts relative to the case, which were not generally known.

Mr. Claiborne objected to this; and

Mr. Baldwin suggesting the propriety of committing it to the same Committee of the Whole, to whom were referred the subject of considering the expediency of excepting certain claims from the operation of the limitation acts, this course was adopted.

Friday, December 22.

General Kosciusko.

Mr. Dawson wished to call the attention of the House to a subject, which, he doubted not, would interest the feelings of every member. The subject he alluded to was the situation of General Kosciusko. It was a fact well known to every man in this country, it was a fact known to the world, that this brave man entered into the service of the United States, at an early period of our Revolutionary war. When this service was ended, he received from the Government a certificate of what was due to him. He returned to Poland, his native country; there, animated by the same spirit which had led him to take a part in our struggle for independence, he endeavored to overthrow the existing tyranny, and to introduce in its place liberty and independence. For some time his attempt seemed likely to be crowned with success; but, on the fatal 10th of October, 1794, overpowered by numbers, he was defeated and taken prisoner. Covered with wounds and with glory, he was conducted to the prison of Petersburgh. When he was released from thence, he immediately set out to this country, here to spend the remainder of his life. He was now within this city; but, from the wounds he had received in his arduous but unsuccessful conflict, he was unable to walk or to attend to any business. The unfortunate day on which he was taken prisoner, he lost his all, and with it the certificate of the services rendered to the United States. He was unable, therefore, to obtain a settlement of his account at the Treasury. To set aside all difficulty in the matter, Mr. D. proposed to offer a resolution to the consideration of the House; and as it was justice only which he sought for this brave man, he doubted not that a spirit of justice would ensure its adoption. It was to the following effect:

"Resolved, That a committee be appointed to inquire and report whether any, and, if any, what provisions are necessary, to obtain payment of the claim of Gen. Kosciusko on the United States."

Mr. J. Parker seconded the motion. He hoped the resolution would be agreed to, and that immediate attention would be paid to the unfortunate gentleman, as he believed, except he made use of the grant made to him by the Emperor of Russia, which, he believed, he was disinclined to do, for considering his predecessor as the chief cause of his own misfortunes, and those of his country, he did not wish to be under obligations to him. The certificate given to the General on his departure from hence, was for $12,800, upon which he had received only one year's interest. He hoped, therefore, as he had the misfortune to lose his certificate, at the time he was taken prisoner, that the House would take such measures as should enable him to receive the amount of his certificate, with the interest due thereon.

Mr. Coit moved that the resolution should be committed to the Committee of Claims, but afterwards changed his motion so as to make that committee the committee to inquire and report, instead of a select committee. He professed to have no other object in these motions than that this claim should take the same course with other claims.

The motion was supported by Messrs. Allen, J. Williams, Macon, and Edmond. It was opposed by Messrs. J. Parker, Livingston, Gallatin, Brooks, Nicholas, Harper, Sheperd, Otis, Pinckney, Swanwick, S. Smith, T. Claiborne, and McDowell.

The motion for a reference to the Committee of Claims was lost—59 to 33.

Mr. Pinckney said, that as this claim was different from most others which came before that House, and having himself had something to do in the business, he would state to the House what he knew of it. Previous to General Kosciusko's return to Poland, whilst he was in Germany, he applied to the Polish Ambassador in London, by letter, requesting him to make application to the American Minister there for payment of a part of the money due to him from the United States. The mode of transacting this business was this: The interest arising from the certificate granted to the General, was made payable in Paris; but from the change which took place in the French Government, the General did not know how to receive it there, which was the reason of his making application, through the Polish Minister, to him (Mr. P.) in London. Mr. P. wrote to the American Minister in Paris for an order on the bankers of the United States in Holland, but having in the mean time received a letter from Gen. Kosciusko, requesting the money to be sent for him to Ratisbon or Leipsic, he (Mr. P.) sent an order to Amsterdam, requesting the bankers there to transmit the money either to Ratisbon or Leipsic, as the exchange should be most advantageous. In the interim General Kosciusko returned to Poland, and he supposed he then had no time to attend to this business. He never heard any more upon the subject until he saw the General in Philadelphia, when he found this money had not been received by him; so that he supposed it yet lay in the hands of the Leipsic or Ratisbon banker.

Finding this to be the case, Mr. P. immediately wrote to the banker at Amsterdam, requesting him to redraw the money, and to transmit it here for the General's use. But, as he might, in the mean time, stand in need of it, it might be proper in the United States to anticipate its return, by settling the account with the General. He hoped in whatever way this business was effected, it would be in such a way as not to wound the feelings of a man who had deserved so well of this country.

On a suggestion of Mr. Sitgreaves, instead of appointing a committee, the Secretary of the Treasury was directed to make a report what "Legislative provision was necessary, &c."

This motion was carried by 49 to 40; but whatever difference of opinion there was in the House, as to the mode of doing the business, there seemed to be but one sentiment, as to the propriety of complying with the spirit of the resolution.

Wednesday, December 27.

Samuel Jordan Cabell, from the State of Virginia, appeared, and took his seat.

Count de Grasse.

Mr. Livingston, from the committee to whom was referred the petition of the daughters of the late Count de Grasse, made a report, which stated that the sum heretofore allowed by Congress was intended only as a temporary provision, until the events of the war should permit them to take possession of an estate in St. Domingo; that the facts formerly stated showed that the most important services were rendered to the United States by their father, from motives the most honorable, under the greatest responsibility, and at a risk the most hazardous that could be encountered by an officer of rank and reputation; that, with a recollection of these services, it would consist neither with the honor nor justice of the United States to refuse an adequate provision for the orphan children of the man who rendered them. The committee, therefore, recommended that a certain sum should be granted to each of them, annually, for their lives. The report was twice read, and committed for Monday.

Thursday, December 28.

Gen. Kosciusko.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter and report from the Secretary of the Treasury, in pursuance of a resolution of the House, of the 23d instant, relative to the claim of General Kosciusko. The report states, that the accounts of the General were settled at the Treasury in 1784, when a certificate was issued to him for $12,280 49, bearing an interest of six per cent. from the 1st of January, 1784, which was stipulated by a resolution in February following, in common with the interest due to all the foreign officers, to be paid annually at Paris; that in May, 1792, moneys were granted by Congress to discharge the principal and interest of these debts, at which time it was supposed that all the officers had received their interest to the 1st of January, 1789; but it now appears by the banker's account at Paris, that no interest had been received by General Kosciusko for four years, viz.: from 1785 to 1788. Sufficient funds to pay the interest from 1789 to 1792, were, in 1792, placed in Amsterdam, subject to the disposal of our Minister at Paris; that by his direction a bill for the amount was remitted to Mr. Pinckney in London; but, pursuant to the direction of General Kosciusko, Mr. Pinckney wrote to the banker at Amsterdam to remit the amount to Leipsic or Dresden. That in September, 1792, a notification was published, that provision had been made for paying the principal of the debt due to foreign officers, on application at the Treasury, after the 15th of October following, and that the interest upon their demands would cease after the last day of December in that year. That though the certificate issued to the General is stated by him to have been lost or destroyed, yet the powers of the officers of the Treasury are competent to the payment of $12,280 54, the principal, and $2,947 33 interest, for the years from 1785 to 1788, on receiving a bond of indemnification from the General: but that they cannot advance the interest supposed to have been remitted to Leipsic or Dresden, though payment will be immediately made for any sum which may be hereafter redrawn, and credited to the United States at Amsterdam; nor is it in the power of the Treasury to allow any interest on said principal since the 1st January, 1793.

On motion of Mr. Dawson, this report was referred to a Committee of the Whole for Monday.

Tuesday, January 2.

John Fowler, from the State of Kentucky, appeared and took his seat.

General Kosciusko.

Mr. Dawson moved the order of the day on the report of the Secretary of the Treasury on the claim of Gen. Kosciusko; which motion being acceded to, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr. Kittera in the chair, and the report having been read,

Mr. Dawson said, when he had the honor of presenting this business to the House, he hoped the proposition he then submitted would have been agreed to in that way, which, in his opinion, would have been most honorable to the United States, and most agreeable to the person concerned. In this hope he had been disappointed; but, though they differed as to the mode of doing the business, there was but one opinion as to the business itself. He had now a resolution to submit to the consideration of the House, which he trusted would meet with no opposition. It would be found, by the report of the Secretary of the Treasury, that the accounting officers were ready to pay to General Kosciusko $12,280 principal, and $2,947 interest, from 1785 to 1788. To recover those two sums, therefore, there would have been no occasion for application to that House. It also states, that a bill had been remitted to our Minister at London, for the interest from 1789 to 1792, but which money was afterwards, by direction of the General, ordered to be remitted to Leipsic or Dresden; but it did not appear that this order had been complied with. It was clear, however, it was never received by him, nor had he given any person a right to receive it. He hoped, therefore, as the money lay at Amsterdam, Leipsic or Dresden, and could at any time be got by the United States, there would be no objection to pay the General that sum at this time. It was further stated in the report, that in September, 1792, a notification was published, informing all the foreign officers that provision was made at the Treasury for the payment of the principal of their debts, and that the interest thereon would therefore cease after the last day of December in that year. Upon examination he did not find that this arrangement was founded upon any law; it was, therefore, a regulation agreed upon by the Treasury Department, and ought not to operate to the injury of persons who were ignorant of it. It was well known, that, from the peculiar situation of General Kosciusko at the time, that he could not hear of it; and the truth was, he never did hear of it until he arrived in this city. He hoped, therefore, there would be no objection to the payment of the amount of the certificates, with interest to the present time. To effect this purpose, he proposed the following resolution:

"Resolved, That it is the opinion of this committee, that the Secretary of the Treasury be authorized and directed to pay to General Kosciusko, the interest of six per cent. per annum, on $12,280 54, the amount of the certificate received by him from the United States, and now lost, from the 1st of January, 1789, to the 31st day of December, 1797."

This resolution was opposed by Messrs. Macon, Coit, and J. Williams. They were opposed to interest being paid up to the present time, and wished, if any provision were made for paying interest beyond the time fixed by the notification of the Treasury, that the regulation should be a general one, and extend to all other foreign officers. They were also against paying the interest, which had been transmitted to Paris for General Kosciusko's use, and which, by his direction, was afterwards remitted to Leipsic or Dresden, as it most probably lay there, and would be paid to his order without their interference.

The motion was advocated by Messrs. Venable, Pinckney, J. Parker, Harper, Gallatin, and T. Claiborne, and was finally agreed to without a division.

Wednesday, January 3.

Duties on Distilled Spirits.

PEACH BRANDY.

Mr. Harper moved the order of the day on the bill to amend the several acts for laying a duty on spirits distilled within the United States, and on stills; which motion being agreed to, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the subject, Mr. Kittera in the chair. The bill having been read,

Mr. Macon said, that the report of the Committee of Ways and Means, on the proposition for allowing distillers to take licenses for a week, having been referred to that committee, if it were taken up at all, this was the proper time. He should, therefore, propose an additional section to the bill, to embrace this objection.

Mr. M. accordingly presented a section to allow of weekly licenses.

This motion produced a considerable debate. It was opposed by Messrs. Sewall, Griswold, Gallatin, Gordon, and Brooks, on the ground that the duty now paid upon spirits distilled from fruit (which description of distillers the regulation was avowedly intended to accommodate) was not equal to that paid by distillers of grain, as the duty on spirits distilled from fruit was not more than two and a half cents per gallon, whilst that on spirits distilled from grain paid seven cents; and if the amendments were agreed to, this inequality would be increased—for persons who took a license for a week, by preparing their materials beforehand, and working night and day, would finish their business within that time, which otherwise would have required a fortnight; by which means the duty would be reduced from six cents per gallon, on the capacity of their stills, to four; that it would increase the temptation to fraud, as that temptation was strong, or the contrary, in proportion to the length of time for which a license was taken; as a person taking a license for a fortnight, by working his still one day past the time specified in his license would gain half a cent a gallon on the capacity of his still, whilst he who took out a license for six months would only gain half that sum. If licenses for a week were allowed, the temptation would therefore be increased; that such a regulation would greatly augment the duties of excise officers, without rendering any material advantages to individuals—since, if the owner of a still of fifty gallons took out a license for a fortnight, when a week might have served, he would only pay a dollar more than he would have paid for a week; that when this scale of duties was made, reference was had to the situation of persons who would be obliged to take out a license for a fortnight, though they might not have fruit to employ a still more than a few days, and a rate proportionably low adopted; that the same reasons which were urged for allowing licenses for a week might be urged for allowing one for two days; that, though there might be some inconveniences experienced by the distillers of fruit, (as it was not doubted there might be in other parts of the law,) yet, as it was only just got into operation, it would not be right to enter into the proposed regulation, but defer it to the period when it would most probably be necessary to go into a review of the whole law.

The motion was supported by Messrs. Macon, Harrison, Harper, J. Parker, Nicholas, Venable, R. Williams, New, Dennis, T. Claiborne, and Clay. It was asserted that the law as it now stood excluded four out of five of the owners of orchards, in the Southern States, from distilling their early fruit at all; that their peaches ripened hastily, and as hastily rotted, if not made use of. Persons who had only fruit to employ their stills for three or four days, sooner than take a license for a fortnight, suffered their fruit to rot; and to allow licenses for a week would produce a considerable augmentation of the revenue, since those persons only would take such a license, who, if that privilege were not allowed, would not take out a license at all, or such as had occasion to distil a few days longer after their two weeks' license was expired. It was unjust to require a man, who had only a small orchard, and occasion to use a still but a few days, to pay a much higher duty upon his brandy than his more opulent neighbor. It was not so inconsiderable an object as gentlemen supposed, since it had not reference to one license only—farmers in the Southern States having occasion to take out separate licenses for their early, their middle, and their latter fruits; and this regulation would not open a door to fraud, as was supposed. It was an undeserved imputation upon the characters of persons concerned in this business, to suppose they could be tempted to defraud the revenue for the sake of half a cent per gallon upon what they could distil in a day. The penalties consequent upon fraud, if the virtue of the persons concerned could not be relied upon, were sufficient to guard against them; and, if they were not, it could not be expected, as some gentlemen seemed to suppose, that the excise officers should overlook the conduct of every distiller. If they were to be so inspected and scourged, an attempt to defraud the revenue could scarcely be blamed; and, except it were the intention of gentlemen to crush this domestic manufacture, no reasonable objection could be urged against the proposition. The objections which had been urged proved the ignorance of gentlemen in respect to this branch of business; for though the excise officers would have some trouble in issuing licenses, it was believed they would be well satisfied to encounter it, since their profits were in proportion to the quantity of spirits distilled; and though this law had been but a short time in being, the last season, having been a scarce fruit season, had given a good opportunity of trying it. As the application for this amendment was seconded by the whole of the Southern country, it was entitled to respect, and ought not to be branded with being a fraudulent design upon the revenue.

In the course of the debate, Mr. Gallatin called upon gentlemen acquainted with the subject, to say what was the quantity of spirits which could be distilled from peaches in a week by a still of the capacity of thirty, forty or fifty gallons, with a view to show that this species of spirits paid less at present than spirits distilled from grain.

Mr. Clay answered this inquiry, by saying, that a still of fifty gallons would distil from five to seven gallons of brandy a day. If the weather was wet, and the peaches rotted quickly, not more than five; but when the weather was dry, and the peaches sound, seven gallons might be produced.

The question on the amendment was at length put and carried—45 to 37.

Mr. Dennis said, he wished to try another principle in this bill. The law at present required an annual entry of stills, whether they were used or not, which occasioned persons frequently to ride twenty or thirty miles to make the entry, when they had no intention to make use of their still; and not unfrequently, from not meeting with the officers at home, this journey was taken two or three times over. Indeed, he believed, more penalties had been incurred on account of this regulation than any other, and he looked upon it as a useless regulation. When a still was once entered, he thought it was sufficient, and no future entry ought to be required, except when a still was about to be made use of, or when it was transferred into other hands. Mr. D. proposed a section to this effect; but after some objections to the introduction of so important a provision into this bill, (which before it could be decided upon would require considerable discussion,) by Messrs. Hartley, Gallatin, and Harper, he agreed to withdraw it for the present.

It having been agreed to fill the blank of the sum per gallon to be paid on the capacity of a still, when a license was taken for a week, with four cents, the committee rose; the House took up the amendments, agreed to them, and the bill was ordered to be engrossed for a third reading to-morrow.

Friday, January 5.

Count de Grasse.

Mr. Livingston called for the order of the day on the bill for granting an annuity to the daughters of the late Count de Grasse; which being agreed to, the House resolved itself into a Committee of the Whole on the subject, Mr. Dent in the chair; and, after a number of desultory observations, the blanks were filled up, viz: the time for which the annuities should continue was fixed at five years, and the sum per annum to be allowed at $500 each. The first question was determined by a considerable majority, there being 57 votes in favor of it; the latter was carried—46 to 38.

The committee then rose and reported the amendments. They were all agreed to without a division, except the sum to be allowed per annum. When that question was put,

Mr. J. Williams hoped it would not be agreed to. When the subject was before under discussion, the question on $500 and $400 had been negatived. $500 a year for the four daughters for five years, he said, would be $10,000. He thought this a very serious sum. He again adverted to the situation of many of our own citizens, and called for the yeas and nays upon the question.

Mr. Harper asked whether, if, when the Count de Grasse was solicited to remain with the fleet under his command in the Chesapeake, at his own risk and responsibility, he had asked as a condition that on some future day $10,000 should be granted to his daughters, would it not have been complied with, if it had been ten times that sum? And ought his descendants to be more hardly dealt with because their father had the generosity and magnanimity not to make the demand? He trusted not.[28]

After some observations in favor of concurring with the Committee of the Whole in their vote, by Messrs. Thatcher, Brooks, Livingston, and Gordon; and against it by Messrs. Varnum, McDowell, and Macon—the former of whom said that the clergy, in his part of the country, had not more than three hundred and thirty dollars a year; and the latter gentleman produced three cases of our own citizens who had lost their lives in the service of the United States, whose families had been much more hardly dealt with, viz: the family of a Lieutenant Colonel, who had four hundred and fifty dollars a year granted them; that of a Major, three hundred dollars a year; and that of the Marshal of Georgia, whose family had a grant of two thousand dollars. The yeas and nays were taken—40 to 43.

The question for allowing five hundred dollars a year being negatived, four hundred was proposed and carried—46 to 34.