TESTIMONY OF JOHN W. FAIN (continued 2)

Mr. Stern. Now, at the time you filed this report, in view of the fact that you didn't see, as you testified, any further work to be done at this time——

Mr. Fain. That is right.

Mr. Stern. Could you have put the case in any other status besides "Closed"? Is there any other administrative procedure that might have been available to you under the circumstances where you had nothing further, no further work to recommend at the time?

Mr. Fain. Any other status? I could have put it, of course, in a pending status and set out some leads.

Mr. Stern. No, no; assuming you didn't see any further work to be done, any further leads at that time, under your administrative practices?

Mr. Fain. No; if the work has been completed, we put the recommendation that it be closed and as I say, of course, that is no ironbound thing, to keep it from being reopened. It can be reopened any time, any of these security cases, the very next day, if necessary or the next 5 days or the next month, anything comes in on it or we get any specific reason for reopening it, it certainly is reopened.

Representative Ford. A few minutes ago I asked you a question about checking with confidential informants. Did this check involve only confidential informants in Fort Worth as far as the Communist Party was concerned, or would it have a broader check?

Mr. Fain. These were the confidential informants available to me in Fort Worth only.

Representative Ford. Would there be a different set of informants in Dallas?

Mr. Fain. Yes; they had informants, I suppose, one or two from the area there, but we certainly had two when I considered to be excellent right in Fort Worth and I am sure they had good access.

Representative Ford. But would such a check of informants at Fort Worth necessarily mean there couldn't have been some relationship Oswald had with the Communist Party in Dallas, for example?

Mr. Fain. Well, these in Fort Worth are familiar with some of the activity in Dallas, too.

Representative Ford. There would be a connection between your informants in Fort Worth——

Mr. Fain. Yes, sir.

Representative Ford. And those that might exist in Dallas?

Mr. Fain. Yes, sir. I contacted these on several occasions, on two occasions that I remember, and, I felt, if this man was a member of the Communist Party they would know about it.

Representative Ford. When one of the Secret Service agents went down to Dallas prior to the assassination in his preparation for the visit of the President he checked through informants in certain right-wing elements in Dallas to see whether or not there was to be any violence at the time of the President's visit. There have been allegations to the effect that Oswald was in some way connected with such alleged right-wing organizations. Did you have any knowledge of that?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; no, sir.

Representative Ford. Did you have any reason to check it?

Mr. Fain. No; all the information that I had and as these reports will reflect, he was along the lines of Marxist, Communist, if anything, and I don't think you will find any indication that he was on the other.

Representative Ford. You had no information that he was in any way whatsoever connected with the alleged right-wing organizations?

Mr. Fain. That is right. That is right, I did not.

Mr. McCloy. Did any Secret Service people get in contact with you prior to the visit of the President, or did you get in contact with them?

Mr. Fain. No, sir. You see, I retired from the FBI October 29 of 1962. The President was down there November 22, of 1963.

Mr. McCloy. I forgot.

Mr. Dulles. That was how long, I didn't catch the date, how long before the assassination attempt?

Mr. Fain. I retired October 29 of 1962, and the assassination——

Mr. Dulles. The year before, about?

Mr. Fain. Yes, sir.

Mr. Dulles. A little over a year.

Mr. Fain. The assassination occurred in November of 1963, isn't that correct?

Representative Ford. Are you still living in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; I am at Houston. I moved to Houston and retired on the 28th and went to Houston on November 1 of 1962.

Representative Ford. What is your present occupation?

Mr. Fain. I am office manager and in charge of accounts receivable for my brother who is an orthopedic surgeon in Houston.

Representative Ford. You no longer have any connection with the Government?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; I do not. The Bureau has been mighty good to me. I have enjoyed my tenure of service.

Mr. Stern. Mr. Fain, was there any procedure that you went through upon your retirement in turning over cases, cases you had worked on whether they were in closed status or pending cases? Did you discuss the cases with an agent who was taking them over?

Mr. Fain. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stern. Was a closed case discussed in that fashion?

Mr. Fain. Yes, in general, in other words——

Mr. Stern. Do you recall discussing the Oswald case with another agent?

Mr. Fain. Not specifically, no; I do not.

Mr. Stern. But you do think you would have in connection with the procedures you followed upon your retirement?

Mr. Fain. Maybe not. We might not, since this case was closed, I doubt very much that we discussed it.

Mr. Stern. You have no recollection of it?

Mr. Fain. At least I have no recollection of having discussed it with him.

Mr. Stern. May we have this report, Mr. Chairman, which has been marked for identification 824, admitted?

Representative Ford. It may be admitted.

(The document referred to, previously marked as Commission Exhibit No. 824 for identification, was received in evidence.)

Mr. Stern. Mr. Fain, I show you a document, a letter from Director Hoover with attachments, which has been marked for identification Commission No. 825. Would you turn to the last two pages and can you tell us what the last two pages constitute?

Mr. Fain. The last two pages constitute an affidavit which I gave to the Houston office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Mr. Stern. Did you make it at the Houston office?

Mr. Fain. Yes, sir.

Mr. Stern. What was the occasion of your making this affidavit?

Mr. Fain. I was contacted by Mr. Ed Dalrymple, special agent of the FBI, and he explained to me that he would like to talk to me about this matter. He said he had had an inquiry concerning whether or not I had ever paid this man, Lee Oswald, any money for any information and he asked me if I would be willing to give an affidavit and I said I certainly would be glad to. I came down to the office and gave this affidavit to him on January 29, 1964.

Mr. Stern. Is there anything you would like to add to this affidavit or any correction you would like to make in it at this time?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; I do not.

Mr. Stern. When you talk about an informant, does that term mean to you only someone who receives money for information?

Mr. Fain. No, they have an informant that would furnish information without compensation. Informant in the generally accepted term is anyone who would furnish information to the FBI.

Mr. Stern. When you say no effort was made to recruit Lee Harvey Oswald's services in any capacity on behalf of the FBI or any other Government agency, you mean for compensation or otherwise?

Mr. Fain. Oh, yes. That was my understanding for the reason of this affidavit was whether or not I had ever paid him or offered to pay him any money, remuneration or compensation for any information and certainly there had been no effort to recruit him along that line at all and no payment had ever been made to him.

Mr. Stern. Would you consider then the same question but without the element of compensation: Had you ever made any effort to recruit his services without compensation?

Mr. Fain. Well, we, of course, interviewed him a couple of times and asked him for information and told him that if he were ever contacted by any Soviet individuals or under any suspicious circumstances to be sure and let us know about it.

Mr. Stern. Did you ever ask him to do anything more than that for you?

Mr. Fain. No, sir.

Mr. Stern. Did you ever ask him to try to become a member of any group for you?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; no, sir.

Mr. Dulles. Did he agree to supply the information?

Mr. Fain. He promised to; yes, sir.

Mr. Dulles. In case he should be approached?

Mr. Fain. He said he would cooperate with us.

Mr. Stern. The last paragraph of your affidavit describes his attitude as arrogant and hostile. Did you say that on the basis of both interviews with him?

Mr. Fain. Predominantly as a result of the first, and frankly as I said a while ago, he was and continued to be evasive as to his reason for ever having gone over there, and I consider that uncooperative.

Mr. Stern. But did you feel he was arrogant and hostile at the time of the second interview?

Mr. Fain. Not so much as he was the first. I would say he was more so, more arrogant and hostile at the first interview.

Mr. Stern. If there are no other questions in this area, I have just one other point I would like to cover with Mr. Fain, and that is what were your instructions, Mr. Fain, as a special agent of the FBI, with regard to referring to the Secret Service information bearing upon the protection of the President, not in this case but as a general proposition?

Mr. Fain. As a general proposition, if there was any information coming to our attention, express or implied, or any implication that the President might be in danger or anyone had made a threat of that character, we would always refer it to the Secret Service, that was made clear to us from the very beginning of my service.

Mr. Stern. In your 20 years of service as a special agent did you ever have any occasion to refer information to the Secret Service?

Mr. Fain. I don't remember any specific instances but I am sure there have been a few occasions where I have turned over some information like that and I have run several investigations out as to who this individual was and as to what he was, and so forth.

But any indication of, a threat or otherwise I would have contacted my supervisor—it happened at Fort Worth at that time we didn't have a representative of Secret Service, it was covered out of Dallas, but if there had been anything like that, any indication of potential for violence or any threats I would have called my Dallas office and they would have in turn advised the Secret Service.

Mr. Stern. Did you see any reason to refer Lee Harvey Oswald to the Secret Service?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; no, sir. I didn't see any potential for violence at that time; no, sir.

Mr. Stern. Did he ever mention the President or the Presidency or——

Mr. Fain. No, sir.

Mr. Stern. Or any elected official to you?

Mr. Fain. No, sir.

Mr. Stern. Governor Connally?

Mr. Fain. No, sir.

Mr. Dulles. Would the memoranda of these conversations be put in a file that was in any way special as to of doubtful character or suspicious character so that it might be referred to later under that category?

Mr. Fain. They constantly review these, as I understand it, these matters.

Mr. Dulles. Who is "they"?

Mr. Fain. The supervisory desk over there constantly is going over these matters, and if there is any—they check the files to see if anything has come in on it that would look like it ought to be reopened.

Mr. Dulles. But there was no mark on this file to indicate that this was a case that might have some pending interest from the point of view of security?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; not that I am aware of.

Mr. Stern. Is there anything you would like to add to anything you have told the Commission this morning, Mr. Fain?

Mr. Fain. I believe not. I don't recall anything additionally.

Mr. Dulles. Did you card all these files so that—and was there a card in your files under the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?

Mr. Fain. Not in my files, but when it goes to Dallas they index all those.

Mr. Dulles. They do that in Dallas?

Mr. Fain. Yes, sir; and the seat of Government.

Mr. Dulles. And there was a card on Lee Harvey Oswald, a special card, in addition to a file in the office?

Mr. Fain. I am sure there was, there might have been an index.

Mr. Dulles. But you didn't know that yourself?

Mr. Fain. No, sir; but we didn't maintain one in Dallas—in Fort Worth.

Mr. Stern. That is all.

The Chairman (presiding). Well, Mr. Fain, thank you very much, sir, for your courtesy and your help to us. We appreciate it. Sorry to disturb you in your retirement.

(At this point Senator Cooper entered the hearing room.)

(At this point Representative Ford left the hearing room.)