TESTIMONY OF J. C. DAY (continued 2)

Mr. Belin. Now, returning for the moment to Exhibit 738, do you recognize any items in there as items that you turned over to the FBI?

Mr. Day. All of these items were released to the FBI.

Mr. Belin. Which ones are there now?

Mr. Day. There is a shirt.

Mr. Belin. This is the same shirt that has been marked Commission Exhibit 150?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. All right. What else?

Mr. Day. A revolver.

Mr. Belin. Did you put any initials on the revolver or not?

Mr. Day. No, sir; I don't think I did.

Mr. Belin. All right. What else?

Mr. Day. A blanket.

Mr. Belin. Is that the blanket that has been marked "Commission Exhibit 140" here?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. All right. What else?

Mr. Day. A live round.

Mr. Belin. Is that the live round that you earlier identified as what Captain Fritz ejected from the rifle?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. What else?

Mr. Day. Two spent hulls, and an envelope in which they were in.

Mr. Belin. Those are the ones you have earlier identified, is that Correct?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. What else?

Mr. Day. One piece of cardboard with a palmprint on it that has been identified as that of Oswald.

Mr. Belin. That is the piece of cardboard that you tore off this cardboard box, the cardboard box being Commission Exhibit No. 648, is that correct?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. What else?

Mr. Day. Two—correction, one .38-caliber slug, and a button off a policeman's uniform.

Mr. Belin. Is that slug, do you know where that came from?

Mr. Day. I didn't personally collect that. It was in the stuff that was given to Vince Drain.

Mr. Belin. All right. Anything else, if you know?

Mr. Day. There is a plastic box, I don't remember what was in it, a slip of paper reading "Dallas County Hospital District," laying with the box, and there is an envelope laying with the live round with information stating that it is a live round from the gun found on the sixth floor of the Texas Book Depository.

Mr. McCloy. Did you refer to the paper sack?

Mr. Day. Yes; I didn't mention that. Also one homemade paper bag previously identified as the bag found in the southeast corner of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

Mr. McCloy. What is the revolver that you previously mentioned, where did it come from?

Mr. Day. I understand that was the one that was in Oswald's possession, reportedly the one used to shoot the officer.

Mr. Belin. You don't have any independent knowledge of that, do you?

Mr. Day. No, sir; I did not collect that.

Mr. Belin. I am going to hand you what has been marked "Commission Exhibit 740" and ask you to state if you know what that is. Do you have any further comments, by the way, of 738?

Mr. Day. I can tell from this what it is.

Mr. Belin. You are looking toward your own inventory and you are pointing to a picture of Exhibit 738?

Mr. Day. Yes; it was a bullet fragment taken from the body of John Connally at Parkland General Hospital in Dallas. The slip was in connection with a fragment, the hospital slip previously mentioned.

Mr. Belin. Anything else on 738?

Mr. Day. That is all that is in the picture.

Mr. Belin. All right. What about exhibit——

Mr. Day. There was one other article released with this, an envelope containing the three negatives I made of the prints on the side of the magazine housing of that 6.5 rifle, which I did not definitely identify as belonging to Oswald.

Mr. Belin. Anything else on 738?

Mr. Day. That is all, sir.

Mr. Belin. What about Exhibit 740?

Mr. Day. 740 is a photograph looking northeast toward the Texas School Book Depository. This shows Elm Street at the point at which the President was shot.

Mr. Belin. Do you know when that was taken?

Mr. Day. November 22, 1963, in the afternoon sometime after 3 o'clock.

Mr. Belin. All right. I am going to hand you Exhibit 741 and ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. Day. 741 is a photograph of the lunchroom area on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository taken November 25, 1963.

Mr. Belin. Do you know what direction the camera is facing?

Mr. Day. The camera is facing west looking toward the west door of the lunchroom.

Mr. Belin. All right. I'm going to hand you what has been marked "Exhibit 742" and ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. Day. That is the outside of the door shown in the picture on 741, which door——

Mr. Belin. There appear to be two doors shown on 741. One door that is open and one door that is closed with the window in it.

Mr. Day. This is outside of the door that is closed with the window in it. This picture looks east, made on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository from a position near the stairway.

Mr. Belin. That would be the stairway coming——

Mr. Day. Stairway coming down from the third floor.

Mr. Belin. I will hand you what has been marked "743" and ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. Day. 743 is a photograph of the stairway leading to the third floor from the second floor of the southwest corner of the Texas School Book Depository. Make a correction on that previous picture 742. I stated that was taken from a position of the stairway leading to the third floor. It should read taken from a position of the stairway leading to the first floor.

Mr. Belin. Is there any other evidence pertaining to fingerprints or palmprints that you have not discussed?

Mr. Day. I can't think of any at the present time. I believe that pretty well covers my participation in this investigation.

Mr. Belin. Is there any other evidence that you can think of pertaining to the rifle that you have not discussed that you can think of at this time?

Mr. Day. Not that I can think of.

Mr. Belin. Is there any other thing that you did pertaining to the investigation of the assassination of the President that you can think of at this time?

Mr. Day. Under my direction they made paraffin casts of the hand of Lee Harvey Oswald in Captain Fritz' office.

Mr. Belin. This was done under your direction?

Mr. Day. I directed them to make it, and also paraffin casts or just of a piece of paraffin on the left side of the face to see if there were any nitrates there.

Mr. Belin. On the left side or right side of the face?

Mr. Day. Right side.

Mr. Belin. Do you know what the results of the paraffin tests were?

Mr. Day. The test on the face was negative.

Mr. Belin. Had you ever done a paraffin test on a face before?

Mr. Day. No; actually—had it not been for the particular type of case and this particular situation here—we would not have at this time. It was just something that was done to actually keep from someone saying later on, "Why didn't you do it?"

Actually, in my experience there, shooting a rifle with a telescopic sight there would be no chance for nitrates to get way back or on the side of the face from a rifle.

Mr. Belin. Well, the chamber, the nature of the chamber of the rifle, would that have anything to do with that?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. In what way?

Mr. Day. A rifle such as that one we are talking about here from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository, in my opinion, would not throw nitrates back to where a man's face was when he is looking through a telescopic sight.

Mr. Belin. Well, when you ran these tests you had understood that the man, Oswald, had fired a pistol, too, hadn't he?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. Would you expect to have any positive tests from a pistol on the cheek?

Mr. Day. I would expect more with a revolver with an open cylinder than I would from a rifle. Actually, for most practical purposes, I would not be surprised if there would be no nitrates from a man firing a rifle.

Mr. Belin. What about on the hands?

Mr. Day. Even on the hands. It is possible, but it is more likely with a revolver where you have a revolving cylinder and an opening between the cylinder and the actual barrel where the nitrates can come out.

Mr. McCloy. That was the type of pistol that was used to kill Tippit, wasn't it?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCloy. Did the paraffin show up nitrate?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir; nitrates were present on the cast made of Oswald's hands.

Mr. Belin. Is there anything else, are there any other comments you have with regard to the paraffin test, sir?

Mr. Day. No, sir.

Mr. Belin. You are showing me your report of paraffin findings. Is this the same report that was sent into the FBI, if you know?

Mr. Day. I think they were sent a report. This is the report submitted by the laboratory at Dallas who first processed this paraffin. Later on the FBI did come and want this paraffin, and it was turned over to them, also the can from which this was made. I don't know what purpose they wanted it for.

Mr. Belin. I believe you mentioned that you took a measurement of the area in which the long paper bag was found to show how big an area that was with relation to the easternmost pair of windows on the east side of the building, and the—on the south side of the building rather—and on the southeast corner juncture of the south wall to the east wall.

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. All right. Handing you what has been marked as "Commission Exhibit 734"—you are using another exhibit there——

Mr. Day. It is the same, it would be the same. I just had my measurements on there, was all.

Mr. Belin. 729, is this the one that you have here?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. All right.

How far would the distance be between the east wall and the east side of that easternmost pipe?

Mr. Day. Two feet, seven inches.

Mr. Belin. Do you have what the measurements were between the south wall and that box that you tore the piece off of to make the palmprint takeoff?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir; it would be 19½ inches. Actually the box was marked "18 inches." If you will note there are six boards. I thought they were 3 inches wide. On doublechecking I found they were 3¼ inches wide which would make a 1½ inch difference in six boards.

Mr. Belin. And I believe you have already said that the bag was folded over when it was found, is that correct?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. Now, on the picture, 734, this is the reconstruction of the boxes in the window, is that correct?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. Does that represent, to the best of your recollection, the way the boxes were at the time you first came upon the crime scene, if you know?

Mr. Day. It is an approximate location. I may be a little too far from the west to what they actually were when we got there on November 22.

Mr. Belin. Is there any other information you can think of, any facts that you can think of, whether I have asked you or not, that you feel are in any way relevant to the area of inquiry, the assassination of the President, the murder of Officer Tippit, or anything else?

Mr. Day. I can't think of anything right now.

Mr. Belin. All right.

Now, I'm going to hand you what has been marked as "Commission Exhibit 744," and ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. Day. 744 is a picture of Officer M. N. McDonald, and shows the scratch on the side of his face made somewhere close to 2 p.m., November 22, 1963, by Detective J. M. Craft—correction, I believe he is a patrolman, Patrolman J. M. Craft, who is assigned to identification, to the identification bureau, and did the actual snapping of the shutter.

Mr. Belin. Was this picture taken under your supervision?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin. I am going to hand you what has been marked "Commission Exhibit 745" and ask you to state if you know what this is.

Mr. Day. 745 is a photograph of Don Ray Ables, Dallas Police Department jail clerk, who was on duty, and placed in the showup November—I don't know whether it was the 23d or 22d, one of those 2 days, along with Lee Harvey Oswald at the Dallas Police Department showup room.

Mr. Belin. Do you know about how tall Don Ray Ables is, if you know?

Mr. Day. He is about 5'6", or 7", but I would have to get his accurate measurements to get it. In other words, he is not a large man.

Mr. McCloy. There were more than he in the showup with Oswald, which Oswald was in, that is, he wasn't the only one in the showup besides Oswald?

Mr. Day. I don't think so, but I don't know, sir.

Mr. McCloy. You weren't present at the showup?

Mr. Day. No, sir.

Mr. Belin. At this time we would offer and introduce into evidence Exhibits 736 through 745.

Mr. McCloy. They may be admitted.

(The items marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 736 through 745 for identification were received in evidence.)

Mr. Belin. Any other questions that you have, Mr. McCloy?

Mr. McCloy. On the crime scene, that is, on the sixth floor, did you notice any chicken bones or chicken remnants of a chicken sandwich or lunch or the whereabouts, if you did see them?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir; there was a sack of some chicken bones and a bottle brought into the identification bureau. I think I still have that sack and bottle down there. The chicken bones, I finally threw them away that laid around there.

In my talking to the men who were working on that floor, November 25, they stated, one of them stated, he had eaten lunch over there.

Mr. McCloy. Someone other than Oswald?

Mr. Day. Yes, sir; so I discarded it, or disconnected it with being with Oswald. Incidentally, Oswald's fingerprints were not on the bottle. I checked that.

Mr. McCloy. They were not on the bottle?

Mr. Day. No, sir.

Mr. McCloy. Did you go on the fifth floor and make any investigation on the fifth floor?

Mr. Day. I was there but I didn't have any photographs taken or do much investigating there.

My work was mostly confined to the sixth, second and the first floors.

Mr. McCloy. I noticed that in the picture you took of the sixth floor window, the picture that had the hulls on the floor, there seemed to be a break in the floor between—against the wall where the wood did not reach the brick of the wall. Was that hole, so far as you recall, all the way through from the sixth floor to the fifth floor?

Mr. Day. No, sir; I checked that. A hull could not go down through there. You could see the bottom of it. There was no hull in there.

Mr. McCloy. I'm not saying there was any hull in there. I was wondering whether that aperture, whatever it was, not related to the hulls, whether that went all the way through to the fifth floor.

Mr. Day. No, sir; I don't think so. I think it was tight there and nothing——

Mr. McCloy. The colored man testified he could see air from the fifth floor to the sixth floor.

Mr. Day. I may be wrong, but I did make a search in that area for the hulls and determined none could be in there. As far as from the bottom looking up, I couldn't say.

Mr. McCloy. I don't think I can think of anything else to ask you, anything else I would like to ask you, Lieutenant Day.

Mr. Belin. Lieutenant Day, we want to thank you for your splendid cooperation here. We appreciate your coming up and staying over and staying late tonight, and we know it has taken time on your part.

Mr. Day. I hope I have helped you and not confused you.

Mr. McCloy. You indicated one thing, Lieutenant, that you didn't have quite the proper equipment here tonight to make the comparisons that you might want to make.

Mr. Day. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCloy. Did I hear that you were going to stay over and go to the FBI laboratory in the morning?

Mr. Day. Well, they are trying to make reservations to leave tonight if they can get them. I do not know whether they can. On that print it would take me some work to do that before I could eliminate all possibility of it not being his print. I feel it is his from what I have seen of it, but before I can take the witness stand and say that is his, I would want to do some more work on it. What it would take, I don't know. I understand that it was identified. What process they used I don't know.

Mr. McCloy. By someone else, by some other agency?

Mr. Day. Yes.

Mr. McCloy. Can you restate again for the record what you can positively identify in terms of fingerprints or palmprints and Oswald's——

Mr. Day. The palmprint on the box he apparently sat on I can definitely say it is his without being in fear of any error. The other, I think it is his, but I couldn't say definitely on a witness stand.

Mr. McCloy. By the other, you mean the other palmprint?

Mr. Day. The palmprint and that tracer print aside the trigger housing or the magazine housing.

Mr. McCloy. Thank you very much.

(Whereupon, at 9:15 p.m. the President's Commission recessed.)