Wednesday, February 12, 1964 TESTIMONY OF MRS. MARGUERITE OSWALD RESUMED (continued 2)

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I have inquired about this Karen Bennett.

Mr. Rankin. Did you know her?

Mrs. Oswald. I do not know whether I knew her or not. I have asked several people to investigate this for me.

Upon returning from the country on an OB case. I went to work for Royal Clothiers, in Fort Worth, Tex., as an outside sales lady. In OB you have to wait for the babies—and I needed to live. There was a young lady there by the name of Carol, I called her. It could be Karen. Looked very much like the young lady I saw on the television. That is the first time I connected the two. Her father was one of the biggest gangsters in Fort Worth, Tex. And he himself was killed by the gangland of Fort Worth, Tex.

Why I know that—the manager of this Royal Clothiers had remarked who Karen's father was, and I said to him, "I don't appreciate your broadcasting that. I think what her father did has nothing to do with the girl. She is working. Give her a chance to her own life."

I am always standing up and getting myself in trouble. I want you to know that. Maybe I am not liked. But if that makes not being liked, I will continue not being liked, sir.

So this is when I first started to work. However, I found out that the young lady also had another job at night, which is all right. She was working as a barmaid in a tavern on Hemphill Street, in Fort Worth, Tex., and she had two small children, and so if she worked at the Royal Clothiers during the day, it was necessary that she work at this saloon, or whatever you want to call it at night.

Mr. Rankin. Was she married?

Mrs. Oswald. No, she was not married. That maybe is what she had to do to support her children. And I understand, because I was left alone.

But—she and I became involved in this way. In the front of the store was a showcase with cheap jewelry. This is a credit place, rings, diamond rings, and bracelets. And Carol had the key to this case, and so did I. And there was some talk about a ring or something missing. I realized right then and there I could not put myself in a position of things being stolen, because here was a girl who they said her father was a gangster, and she was working in a bar. And my son was a known defector. So I quit that job.

Now, on television for the Ruby trial here comes the girl. I thought I recognized this girl. The name is Karen Bennett. And I called her Carol, it could be Karen Bennett. I didn't have much to do with the girl. So I immediately told this story to Mr. Jack Langueth of the New York Times, and I told also to another Star Telegram reporter, Mr. John McConnoch, because I wanted them to investigate.

But I have not heard anything about it.

Mr. Rankin. How about Bruce Carlin?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Rankin. You don't know whether your son knew him?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. I would not know anybody that my son knew. That I am positive—because he never did tell me any of this. But continue.

Mr. Rankin. Robert Kermit Patterson, also known as Bobby Patterson?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Donald C. Stuart?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Charles Arndt?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Rankin. James A. Jackson?

Mrs. Oswald. No, you know, a few of those names sound to me like they might be on the back of both of these pictures. I am not sure.

Mr. Rankin. They are supposed to be associates or friends or people that Mr. Ruby knew and associated with closely.

Stanley or Katya Skotnicki?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Larry Crafard, or Crawford?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Do you remember that name?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. I was trying to connect the name with a couple.

Mr. Rankin. Do you know whether he ever spent any time in the Silver Spur?

Mrs. Oswald. If Lee ever did?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. I have had no knowledge of Lee for 1 year. None whatsoever.

Mr. Rankin. And before that do you know whether he spent any time in the Silver Spur in Dallas?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir.

And before that, as to what I do know, that Lee did not drink and Lee did not smoke, and Lee wasn't the type—not that he did not maybe go into saloons—but from what I know of him, he did not go into places like that of his own. If he was working he might have gone into these places.

Mr. Rankin. These are the nightclubs Jack Ruby was associated with. You recognize that?

Mrs. Oswald. No, I don't.

Mr. Rankin. And the Vegas Club was another one. Do you know whether he spent time there?

Mrs. Oswald. I would have no way of knowing.

Mr. Rankin. And the Sovereign Club?

Mrs. Oswald. I have no way of knowing. I am going to say, again, Mr. Lane would have ways of knowing about all these clubs and everything, because that is his part of our investigation. I would like to get back to Patrolman Tippit.

Mr. Rankin. All right. I just want to try to cover this book about Lee Oswald's marksmanship. That has been marked Exhibit 238.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 238, for identification.)

Mr. Rankin. It is a book that you brought here.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, it was left in his sea bag, when he came home from the Marine Corps.

Mr. Rankin. And that reads, "U.S. Marine Corps Score Book, Oswald, L. H."

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Rankin. That is your son's?

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct. That is his platoon, 2060, that is the one he got the trophy with.

Mr. Rankin. Were the various marks in that book in pencil that you see there in the book when you first found it?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir, I have not touched the book.

Mr. Rankin. Is it in the same condition?

Mrs. Oswald. That is the same condition that it was in his sea bag.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence Exhibit 238, and ask leave to substitute a copy.

The Chairman. It may be introduced.

(The document heretofore marked as Commission Exhibit No. 238 was received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Reporter, will you mark this 239?

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 239 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald. I will ask you to glance through Exhibit 239 and state whether or not that appears to be photostatic copy of——

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, that is the photostatic copy——

Mr. Rankin. Of Exhibit 238?

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Rankin. And you will see it has the same markings.

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Mr. Rankin. This is a copy we will substitute.

Now, do you want to tell about the shooting of Officer Tippit?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I have many, many clippings—as I say, we have all these people working. And we have come to the conclusion, and have never seen where they had an autopsy on Patrolman Tippit or even his gun or anything. In other words, Patrolman Tippit's life has been quiet from the very beginning after the shooting. I have never seen anything about him in print. And we question where all the money that has been given to Mrs. Tippit has come from. That is a tremendous amount of money—tremendous for donations.

The Chairman. You say you question the money?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir; the donations to Mrs. Tippit.

The Chairman. You mean you question whether she received them or not?

Mrs. Oswald. No—where is the money coming from? As far as she knows, sir, they are donations. But where is the actual money coming from, because it is such a large amount? Like I question Marina's money. She has now $38,000. That is just what they have stated she has. What she has may be more. But that is a lot of money for donations, a tremendous lot of money.

And Mrs. Tippit has, I think, almost half a million dollars. Is that correct? I am not quite sure. But, anyhow, it is a large amount of money. And with our investigation and things that are not according to Hoyle, we do question where the money is coming from.

The Chairman. Do you have any idea where it comes from, after your investigation?

Mrs. Oswald. Well, Mr. Lane has. I do not have all the information. He has this information. And we are still investigating it, sir. And we will investigate if it takes another year or two. We are going to continue to arrive at the truth.

Mr. Rankin. You referred to an article in the Time Magazine of February 14, 1964, volume 83, No. 7, when you said there were some things that were wrong in it—do you remember that?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. Did you write a letter about this assassination of President Kennedy to President Johnson at some time?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir; I never have.

Mr. Rankin. Did you send a telegram?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. The only telegram I sent to President Johnson was stating that I had sent a telegram to you and Chief Justice Warren, if you remember.

Mr. Rankin. Did you get any response from the White House?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir; I did not get a response from the White House. And I am indignant at the response that I did get. What it did was to inform me, I was so graciously treated by Mr. Kennedy and his Administration, as I have stated and testified, that I am shocked that I am now to be told that I am not to worry the President. "In response to your telegram to the President, I wish to inform you that any requests or any information dealing with the inquiry conducted by Chief Justice Warren should properly be directed to the Commission. I note in your telegram that you have directed your request to the Chief Justice and to Mr. Rankin, the Commission's General Counsel. Sincerely, Lee C. White, Assistant Special Counsel to the President."

Mr. Rankin. That is the response that you received from the White House?

Mrs. Oswald. From the telegram that I sent, when I sent a telegram to you and Chief Justice Warren—I sent him a telegram. I have it right here, sir. You don't know about the telegram.

Here is a copy of the telegram.

"President Lyndon B. Johnson. I have sent night letters to Chief Justice Earl Warren and J. Lee Rankin imploring both in the name of justice and our American way of life to let my son Lee Harvey Oswald be represented by counsel so that all witnesses including my son's widow will be cross-examined. Respectfully yours, Mrs. Marguerite Oswald."

And this is the response to that. And I don't think that is a gracious response at all. If I want to write the President or send him a telegram, I think I have as much right as anyone else to do so.

Mr. Rankin. Did you comment on the fact of this response from the White House when you received it to anybody?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir. There was a reporter from Time Magazine that I commented to, because I was indignant, as I said. And he said, "Well, if you or your next door neighbor or anybody walking in the street wanted to write the President, that is our American way of life." And I agreed with him.

Mr. Rankin. Now, you are quoted in this article as saying "Why, I have got as much right as any citizen to write the President of the United States, to petition him, and let me tell you this, Mr. Johnson should also remember that I am not just anyone, and that he is only President of the United States by the grace of my son's action." Is that a correct quote?

Mrs. Oswald. No, that is not a correct quote. And that is why I was indignant yesterday when I read that. And there is more discrepancies.

I did tell him about receiving the letter, and I had just received it—that I was indignant they should write and as much intimate that I should not write the President.

I made a special appeal to the President.

Mr. Rankin. Do you recall what you did say? Did you say anything like this?

Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. There was nothing said to this reporter about President Johnson—because I believe my son is innocent. So if I say that, then I would be saying that my son is guilty. And that is why the President is now the President. No, sir. I did not say that.

Mr. Rankin. What reporter for Time Magazine was that that you were talking to?

Mrs. Oswald. I can find out the name for you, or I can think about it. Let's see. I think the name is Sullivan. I did not want to think—but I think it is Sullivan. Do you have that information?

Mr. Rankin. No.

Mrs. Oswald. Well, I will get it for you, or maybe it will come to me.

Mr. Rankin. All right.

Mrs. Oswald. But I do know, because I was paid for the picture—one of the pictures in that magazine.

Mr. Rankin. We would appreciate your telling us as accurately as you can.

Mrs. Oswald. I want to give you any and every information I can.

The Chairman. Did the man who interviewed you in this matter also pay for the picture—the same man?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes sir—for the Time Magazine.

Mr. Rankin. Did he pay you for any part of the story?

Mrs. Oswald. No sir. No, I am wrong there, he did. He paid me for part of the story. That is not the story.

This isn't the story that was supposed to have come out. It was a much nicer and softer story. But we have found out that when we give these press notices, that they don't come out the way you give them. And they explain—like if I was to tell Mr. Sullivan, "I am disappointed in your story"—"Well, Mrs. Oswald, our editor edits to make room," and so on. That is what you get. I was disappointed in the story, because the story was that I felt so sorry for Marina, to think that she had to go through the rest of her life thinking in her mind that her husband was the killer of President Kennedy, and that she would have to tell her children that she had gone down in history, that their father was the killer of President Kennedy. And I went on with a long story. I said—they said "Marina had stringy hair, and she didn't have this or that." Let me tell you, I would rather have Marina with the stringy hair and less clothes, but thinking that her husband was innocent, like she thought the 3 days I was there—rather than the picture now, where she smokes, she no longer nurses her baby, she left her baby in Texas to come to the Warren Commission, which is not the Marina I know.

"Marina, Mama, no, no, she never left her children." And well groomed. But she thinks now her husband shot President Kennedy. What an awful thing. I would much rather have no money and stringy hair and be the girl I was before, and believe my husband was innocent.

The Chairman. How much did Life pay you for your story?

Mrs. Oswald. Is that pertinent?

The Chairman. Or Time, rather.

Mrs. Oswald. Is that pertinent to the Commission, or is that my personal?

Mr. Doyle. I don't think the Chief Justice—he has simply asked you a question. If you wish to answer the question that is fine. If you don't, if you tell the Chief Justice you don't wish to answer the question——

Mrs. Oswald. Well, it doesn't have any bearing. I think the amount I got would be immaterial to the Commission. I don't know.

The Chairman. Well. I think it might be material under some circumstances. But if she doesn't wish to tell us, that is all right.

Mrs. Oswald. It is not—just like the pictures. I want you to have the pictures. And you didn't seem to think they were important enough.

I am asking if this is important to the Commission, because that is my personal life. It is no crime to sell the pictures. I have no job or income. If I want to sell a picture to a magazine or a newspaper, and protect myself financially, I am going to continue to do that.

Mr. Doyle. The Commission has stated to you that it would be interested in knowing, that it feels it might be of some value to them. But if you do not wish to say anything about it, they would not press you.

So again, it would be completely up to you.

Mrs. Oswald. I think that would probably, like these pictures, be my personal——

Mr. Rankin. Did you learn about the attempt of your son to shoot General Walker?

Mrs. Oswald. I am delighted you asked me that question. I have these notes here, and didn't go through that.

The first time I knew about General Walker was through the paper.

Now, I became indignant. I do not remember the quotes. But why I became indignant, was that I had Lee's handwriting in Russian. But no one came to me to find out about this note. That is the part, gentlemen, that is so peculiar about this whole thing.

I understand through reporters that the note was shown to Mrs. Ruth Paine, and wanted to know if the handwriting was Lee's handwriting. But no one has come to find out if I had any handwriting of Lee in Russian, which I have.

Mr. Rankin. Did you think this was in Russian?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I am under the impression that the note was in Russian. It stated in the paper.

Mr. Rankin. When did you learn about the Walker incident?

Mrs. Oswald. Through the newspaper. And it has been changed, the story, now. If I can remember. Now, I will get this for you. I have a friend that has one of the most complete scrapbooks in the United States, that helps in this investigation. And I can get all these articles, sir. And I will help in every way possible.

If I remember correctly, it was stated that Marina found this note in the room that says "I may be arrested, and if so get in touch with the Russian consul" and told her where to go to the jailhouse. I wish I knew the exact quote. So we are getting back to an agent now.

From what I remember in the beginning, he did not say in the note that he was going to kill General Walker—that he would be involved in something that might cause him to be arrested and so on. I remember this. That was in the very beginning, sir. It came out in Fort Worth, Tex.

So he is going to be involved in something. That doesn't mean he is going to shoot General Walker.

Mr. Rankin. When did you learn that he did try to shoot General Walker?

Mrs. Oswald. As the story started to leak out from the paper, what we call leaks. I have to say this, because we are investigating this. I am not the main investigator. But I talk to people. They call, and I get letters from them. Every now and then Mr. Jim Martin, who is the business manager for Marina, would quote Marina—not Marina, but he would quote Marina about General Walker, quoted her about thinking in her mind that her husband had killed the President.

And I was firing back through the newspapers and saying Mr. Jim Martin was an American citizen, and I didn't appreciate him quoting my daughter-in-law about these things, because they are of no advantage. How can they prove that Lee had killed General Walker, because now maybe they would not have the bullets—and so on. It happened before.

Mr. Rankin. You knew that he was not killed.

Mrs. Oswald. What good would it be for Mr. Martin to make a statement like this that Marina said, and publicize it, when they possibly could not now prove that Lee had anything to do with it, gun or bullets or anything. I could not see his purpose in doing this—which has hurt my daughter-in-law very much. I have many letters from people expressing their opinion that they did not appreciate her coming out with these remarks. But it is Mr. Jim Martin.

Marina is a foreign girl, and doesn't know what these people are doing to her, Mr. Rankin. I have publicly fought this over and over—if you have my quotes from the Fort Worth Star Telegram and so on, and probably the New York papers. I deeply feel sorry for Marina. Marina is a Russian girl. Maybe if her husband was picked up to be a murderer, maybe they would shoot him in Russia. I don't know.

But here we have an American way of life that Marina is not familiar with.

Mr. Rankin. Don't you want her to tell the truth about it?

Mrs. Oswald. I want Marina to tell the truth just like I want to tell the truth. But from my testimony here, I have found out that Marina has lied.

Mr. Rankin. What have you found out about the Walker incident? Have you found anything about that was untrue that Marina said?

Mrs. Oswald. That Marina said it?

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. I have not heard Marina say it. I have not heard Marina say it. I can answer this way. This comes from Mr. Jim Martin. There is many, many things about Mr. Jim Martin and Mr. Thorne that I don't think maybe it is right that I should say these things in front of the Commission, because they are rumors.

But a rumor, you will have to, in a case as big as this, and where there are so many people involved, you have to analyze these rumors. I will say this: I understand from many, many a source that the Dallas Bar Association is going to have Mr. Jim Thorne before them. Now that is my understanding there.

Mr. Rankin. So all you know about the Walker incident is what you have read in the papers.

Mrs. Oswald. What I have read in the paper. And I certainly did not appreciate that. Mr. Jim Martin is a citizen, if Marina is not.

Mr. Rankin. Now, did you ever ask your son, Lee Oswald, whether he was an agent of anybody?

Mrs. Oswald. No sir, I have never asked Lee Oswald if he was an agent because I felt like he would not tell me.

Mr. Rankin. But you have not asked him.

Mrs. Oswald. No, I have not asked him.

Oh, one very important thing that I must tell you. On November 26—that was the night of November 26, and the day of November 26 was when I found out that Marina was going to live with someone else, and we had no contact. So I knew I wasn't wanted or involved. I was in the bedroom. And I left the Inn of the Six Flags, gentlemen, under strict security protection. I opened the door and had my coat and pocketbook, and I went out doors. And I was about 15 feet when they realized that I had left the Inn. Now, there was a man on the outside, stationed there night and day. But there was a little arbor. And this was in the bedroom. We had two entrances—one to the living room and one to the bedroom. I opened the bedroom door. I had my coat and bag and I was going to go home. I was going to take a bus and go home because I didn't get to talk to my daughter-in-law—they had taken over.

And I was 15 or 20 feet when two agents came and took me by the arm and I went back in. I didn't make a stink or anything about it. And that night I sat up all night, and the next morning I insisted upon going home. But the point that has to be made is was I under arrest or not—since these men came and took me by the arm and brought me back to the Inn of the Six Flags.

The Chairman. Were you all dressed to go home when they took hold of you that way?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir, when they took hold of me this way. And I didn't say anything. I just went back in. So then the doctor—I do not know his name, you have his name—the doctor came in to see the children, they had diarrhea. And the man whispered something to the doctor. And we closed the door. The doctor asked me for Lee's social security number. And I have testified that I had gone home the night before to get all my papers, after much persuasion. I started to look through the papers for Lee's number. And I started to cry. He and I were in the room alone. I think this was purposely, because they said something to the doctor.

I said I am very upset and told the doctor what happened. And I said "You know, my heart is breaking. I cannot understand how they would do something like that, and not tell me about it."

So he talked with me, and he gave me two pills. When we opened the door he said to the agents "She is all right, she has a right to her feelings." So they must have thought that I was—something was wrong with me. They thought—because I took the attitude immediately—well, Robert said it—I said "Why didn't you let me know." "Well, just because the way you are acting now." I said "How am I acting. I am acting in a normal way. I have lost my son. Now you have made arrangements without consulting me to take my daughter and two grandchildren to live with strangers. This is a normal reaction. Am I going to say yes, take my daughter-in-law and grandchildren, I don't need my part of them."

This is a normal reaction.

Reverend Saunders, Louis Saunders, who is a minister at the grave, accidentally came at the very last minute. He had not preached a sermon in 8 years. He is head of the Council of Churches.

He heard we could not get a minister so he was able to come at the very last minute. And Rev. Granville Walker was sent to my home in Fort Worth, Tex., the next day after I arrived home, to help, to console me about this case. So he said "Mrs. Oswald, I understand that Marina has been offered a very fine home, and how do you feel about that. Are you not glad that your daughter-in-law is going to be taken care of and the children have an education."

I said "No, Reverend Saunders, I do not feel that way about it. Those are material things. How do we know if these children will live to derive any benefit from this education. I think that we should stick together as a family. Her Mama, like she wanted. The girl said she has no Mama. Everything was arranged for the Mama. She is talking about money and material things. I expressed my opinion at the Six Flags, that we start with $863—no contributions were coming in. And then if we cannot make it, then let the ones that are so concerned help us. And I remarked—I am working for a very wealthy woman.

Who knows, maybe she will give us $5,000. Let us stick together as a family. Reverend Saunders says "Mrs. Oswald, your philosophy of life is beautiful, and it is a Biblical way. But you know you have to be practical."

So the very next day, sir—and this is in "Christianity Today," to prove my point—Mr. Jim Cox, who writes for "Christianity Today" and is a Star Telegram reporter called me and said "Mrs. Oswald, Reverend Saunders called me and wanted me to get a story from you, because he thought you had such a wonderful philosophy of life."

I sat down, and Mr. Jimmy Cox stayed home from Church—I gave Mr. Jimmy Cox a story that is in Christianity Today, that only goes to ministers, and it is because of Reverend Saunders. So I do have people to testify about this particular thing. And I did act in a normal way. That is a normal reaction, to not want to give up my family.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald. I will give you Exhibits 206 through 227, both inclusive, and ask you if that is—if those are photostatic copies of your correspondence—would you look at each one of them—with the State Department that you have referred to in your testimony?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir. Do you want the numbers as I go along?

Mr. Rankin. No. You just look at them.

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Representative Ford. These are copies, Mr. Rankin, of her letters to the State Department and the responses?

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Rankin. Yes, that is correct, is it not, Mrs. Oswald?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, that is correct.

Mr. Rankin. And these copies were made under your supervision were they not.

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct. And I voluntarily gave you every copy I have. That is correct. That is correct. That is correct.

Some of this seems to be scratched out here.

Mr. Doyle. On Exhibit No. 221, there seems to be some X markings around. Will you put that aside, and we can compare that with the original.

Mrs. Oswald. This is correct. That is correct. That is correct. I don't remember writing to Mrs. James. I remember calling her on the telephone. This is my handwriting. I guess I did.

Yes, that is my handwriting. That is correct.

That is correct. That is correct. And this is correct, but should have a card with it.

Mr. Doyle. You are referring to 227?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. And it should have with it a card, a postcard, from Lee.

Mr. Doyle. Set 227 aside with 221.

Mr. Rankin. Do you have a copy of 221?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes.

Mr. Rankin. Will you please check to see that is a correct copy.

Mr. Chairman, I think that we might gain time now if we would check these exhibits out with Mrs. Oswald, and be able to offer them at whatever time we reconvene. That is all we propose to do now.

The Chairman. All right.

Mrs. Oswald. This is the card that should have gone with that.

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, were you able to find your copy of Exhibit 221, and compare it and see whether that which is marked on is on your copy?

Mrs. Oswald. No sir, we have not found that yet.

"Yours 11th" is scratched out.

Mr. Rankin. So that 221 is correct, but apparently there are some errors——

Mrs. Oswald. There are more errors, too. Because it doesn't say "Services Department of State."

Mr. Doyle. 221 does not appear to be a photostat of the exhibit.

Mr. Rankin. But it does have exactly the same material on it, doesn't it?

Mrs. Oswald. It doesn't have this—"collect." I would not say it was an exact copy.

Mr. Doyle. It appears to have substantially the information on it. It is not a photostat of it.

Mr. Rankin. I might advise you, Mrs. Oswald, this is from the State Department's file, from which the telegram was made up that was sent to you.

Mr. Doyle. It is not a photostat, but it does have substantially the information that is set forth in the telegram itself.

Mr. Rankin. Now, you have examined all of the exhibits, 206 through 227, both inclusive, and found them, except for what you and your counsel said about exhibit 221, and the card that was with 227, to be correct.

Mrs. Oswald. That is correct.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence Exhibits 206 through 227, both inclusive.

The Chairman. They may be admitted.

(Commission Exhibit Nos. 206 through 227, heretofore marked for identification, were received in evidence.)

Mrs. Oswald. This is the card that goes with this letter, as an explanation.

(The card referred to was marked Exhibit No. 240 for identification.)

Mr. Rankin. Exhibit 240 is the card you have just referred to that goes with Exhibit 227, is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence Exhibit 240, and ask that a copy be substituted.

The Chairman. That may be admitted.

(The card referred to was received in evidence as Commission Exhibit No. 240.)

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, would you examine exhibits 228 through 236, both inclusive? And tell us whether or not those appear to be photostatic copies of correspondence about the Albert Schweitzer College and application?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, that is right. That is right. This is correct. That is right. That is right. That is right. That is right. That is right. That is right. That is right. That is right. That is right.

Those are all right, sir.

Mr. Rankin. You have just finished comparing Exhibits 228 through 236 both inclusive, and found them to be correct photostatic copies of your files concerning the Albert Schweitzer matter?

Mrs. Oswald. That is right.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence, Exhibits 228 through 236 both inclusive.

The Chairman. They may be admitted.

(The photostatic copies referred to were received in evidence as Commission Exhibit Nos. 228 through 236, inclusive.)

The Chairman. Have you introduced all the records you have now?

Mr. Rankin. Just a few more, Mr. Chairman.

(The document referred to was marked 241 for identification.)

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, I hand you Exhibit 241 and ask you if that is one of the letters that you referred to in your testimony?

Mrs. Oswald. That is right.

Mr. Rankin. And it is one that you received?

Mrs. Oswald. It is one that I received in a letter from Russia, from Lee. And you have the letter, telling me to go to the International Rescue Committee, and to show the papers to the Red Cross in Vernon. This is the letter inclosed in that letter.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence Exhibit 241, and ask leave to substitute a copy.

The Chairman. It may be admitted.

(The letter referred to was received in evidence as Commission Exhibit No. 241.)

(Documents marked 242 and 243 for identification.)

Mr. Rankin. Exhibits 242 and 243 are the telegram and the letter you received back from your transmission to the White House that you have testified about this morning, is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. That is right.

Mr. Rankin. And you say you would like to have the originals back?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. We offer in evidence Exhibits 242 and 243 and ask leave to substitute copies.

The Chairman. It may be admitted on that condition.

(Commission Exhibits Nos. 242 and 243 were admitted in evidence.)

The Chairman. Are all the records identified now and admitted, Mr. Rankin?

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Chairman, we have one further matter, and that is some correspondence that involves her son's communications with the Embassy, which correspondence was examined in the presence of Mr. Mark Lane when we were taking photostatic copies. And during that examination, Mrs. Oswald was able to identify the handwriting on part of them, and not able to identify it on another part. Is that right, Mrs. Oswald?

Mrs. Oswald. That is right; yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. And we think we should probably, to cover that matter, ask her briefly to point those out.

The Chairman. Very well. Let's get that done before we adjourn, and then we will adjourn for lunch.

Mr. Rankin. Mr. Reporter, I will ask you to mark these exhibits, which are the ones that I understand Mrs. Oswald was able to identify the handwriting on.

(Documents were marked Commission Exhibits Nos. 244 through 250 for identification.)

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, will you examine Exhibits 244 through 250, both inclusive, and tell us whether or not those are photostatic copies of communications of your son that you recognize the handwriting on of the originals?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir.

Mr. Doyle. If you do not on any one of them, announce the number.

Mrs. Oswald. This is one I would believe that I have stated—if he wrote it, he wrote it very careful. It is not scribbled like he usually does.

Mr. Doyle. That is 246.

Mr. Rankin. Can you tell whether or not that is his signature on the second page of Exhibit 246?

Mrs. Oswald. It is just a little different. That could be forged. Just a little difference. We write left handed, and we have a trend.

Mr. Rankin. Is that one that you said before that you thought you could recognize?

Mrs. Oswald. I don't know, sir. I have no way of knowing. How would I know?

Mr. Rankin. Do you recognize the handwriting now?

Mrs. Oswald. As I have stated before, when I am looking at it, it doesn't appear to be immediately as Lee's handwriting. But it could be something that he has recopied over and over to get such a perfect lettering. It is not scribbled like we usually scribble. Now, this was one also that I would say——

Mr. Rankin. That is Exhibit 247.

Mrs. Oswald. That is scribbled.

Mr. Rankin. That is more scribbled, you say?

Mrs. Oswald. It is not quite as his ordinary writing. It is a little more thoughtfully written.

Mr. Rankin. You think it is his, though?

Mrs. Oswald. I would say this is his.

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. Now, this is thoughtfully written, too, yet it is his.

Mr. Rankin. Exhibit 248.

Mrs. Oswald. I am looking at this handwriting, because the rest of it is printed. I do not know too much about Lee's printing.

Mr. Rankin. Can you tell about the handwriting?

Mrs. Oswald. The signature looks like Lee's signature.

Mr. Rankin. Yes.

Mrs. Oswald. I will state again this looks like Lee's handwriting, but very thoughtfully written.

Mr. Rankin. That is Exhibit 249. Is that right?

Mrs. Oswald. That is right. And this is Lee's signature.

Mr. Rankin. That is Exhibit 250 that you just referred to?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir. Now, I would say it is all Lee's handwriting, but very thoughtfully written.

Mr. Rankin. Thank you. We offer in evidence Exhibits 244 through 250, both inclusive.

The Chairman. They may be admitted.

(The documents referred to were received in evidence as Commission Exhibits Nos. 244 through 250, inclusive.)

(A group of documents was then marked 251 through 258 for identification.)

Mr. Rankin. Mrs. Oswald, I will hand you Exhibits 251 through 257, both inclusive, and ask you to examine those, and state whether you recognize the handwriting.

Mrs. Oswald. That doesn't look too much like Lee's handwriting. It could be a finer pen and more thoughtfully written. But I cannot identify this as Lee's handwriting.

Mr. Rankin. Can you tell about the signature?

Mrs. Oswald. The signature looks a little like Lee's signature.

Mr. Doyle. You refer to 251, when you are discussing this?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, 251.

Now, this one I would say was not Lee's handwriting.

Mr. Rankin. That is 252?

Mrs. Oswald. 252.

I have never known Lee to sign Lee Harvey Oswald. He always signed Lee H. There again, that could be Lee's handwriting with a fine pen. But very thoughtfully written. But I will say it is not Lee's. I don't think it is. I cannot be positive. But I do not think it is Lee's handwriting.

Mr. Rankin. That is Exhibit 252 that you have been referring to?

Mrs. Oswald. Exhibit 252.

Here is another of the same caliber. It is too perfect. The writing is too perfect.

Mr. Rankin. What about the signature?

Mrs. Oswald. The signature looks like Lee's signature.

Mr. Doyle. That is 253.

Mrs. Oswald. 253. Yes, sir. This is a little different signature, I would say, than his normal signature.

Mr. Rankin. 254?

Mrs. Oswald. 254, yes, sir.

Mr. Rankin. You think that Exhibit 254 is your son's handwriting or not?

Mrs. Oswald. I would have to say with reservations again. It would have to be rewritten very thoroughly. It is not scribbled enough.

Mr. Rankin. You think that those letters, 251 through 254, are too carefully done for your son Lee?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir. And if he did do them, he would have to have four or five copies to do it so perfect.

This is a little more scribbled. This signature looks more like Lee's than the other did.

Mr. Rankin. That is 255?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir. 255.

This looks like Lee's handwriting—a lot of misspelling, and his signature. 256.

Now his Russian handwriting I know only from return addresses. However, I do have two brown papers with Russian writing on, from gifts that were sent to me. But I don't know if Lee addressed them or not.

And this is Lee's handwriting with a very fine pen. Isn't this handwriting backwards for a left hand? It seems when I looked at "my," it should be going this way—because I write like Lee, left handed.

Mr. Rankin. When you refer to this—or asked whether it was backwards, you were referring to Exhibit 257, were you?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes. This "m" should be going this way—which it is really. But it is kind of hard to testify to. I would say this is Lee's handwriting with a very fine pen, with reservations.

Mr. Rankin. Exhibit 257.

We offer in evidence Exhibits 251 through 257, both inclusive.

The Chairman. They may be admitted.

(The documents referred to were received in evidence as Commission Exhibits Nos. 251 through 257, inclusive.)

The Chairman. Mrs. Oswald, are you now ready—we are not going to ask you to do it right now, but we are going to recess at 2 o'clock. But are we now at the point where we can hear whatever you want to tell us about your life?

Mrs. Oswald. I am sorry, but I would like to have lunch.

The Chairman. I said that we were going to have lunch. But when we return—you have things up to that point of your story?

Mrs. Oswald. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Very well.

You have another question you want to ask before we recess for lunch?

Mr. Rankin. I should like to offer for the limited purpose, Mr. Chairman, of the fact that we presented this picture to Mrs. Oswald and she said it was not the picture that was presented to her—for that limited purpose I should like to offer Exhibit 237.

The Chairman. It may be so admitted.

(The picture referred to was received in evidence as Commission Exhibit No. 237.)

Mr. Doyle. Mr. Chief Justice, during the noon hour may I have the custody of this transcript of a tape recording of an interview with Mrs. Oswald, the 28 pages which was tendered to us by Mr. Rankin this morning—and I will return it.

Mr. Rankin. That is for them to have.

The Chairman. That is to become your own.

Mr. Doyle. To become the property of Mrs. Oswald.

The Chairman. The property of Mrs. Oswald, yes. That is what we gave it to you for. She requested that.

Mr. Doyle. Thank you very much.

The Chairman. Very well, we will recess now until 2 o'clock.

(Whereupon, at 12:55 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)