Thursday, February 27, 1964 TESTIMONY OF JAMES HERBERT MARTIN (continued 2)

The Secret Service was pulled off, there is apparently no danger at all concerning her life or anyone connected with her. So they feel perfectly safe in taking off, carrying on where we left off, utilizing all the work that we had put into it.

This was not a decision that was made in two days.

Mr. Redlich. Could you be more specific in terms of your suspicions with regard to the plan which you have alleged here was designed to get you off this job?

Mr. Martin. Well, I have letters from—one from Marina and one from McKenzie, that requests my discharge from this contractual agreement.

Now they have actually no reason to cancel the contract. I have performed as far as these sales are concerned quite well, and, of course, those are just advance payments of $132,000. There would be more on royalties after that.

Mr. Dulles. Did you sign these agreements or Mr. Thorne or did Marina sign them?

Mr. Martin. I did.

Mr. Dulles. These agreements with the news media?

Mr. Martin. I did.

Mr. Dulles. You signed them?

Mr. Martin. According to the contract that I have with Marina, "You will authorize me and approve for and in my behalf and in your discretion and decision the following: approve and permit the use of my name, photographs, likeness, voice, sound effects, characters, persons for all publicity, advertising and the promotion of any and all ventures desired by you to be undertaken by me and for the performance by me of any appearance or service. You are authorized, empowered and directed by me."

Mr. Dulles. I think we have a copy of this, do we not?

Mr. Redlich. Yes. You are reading from——

Mr. Martin. My contract.

Mr. Redlich. Yes, just so the record is clear, the contract between James Martin and Marina Oswald is Commission Exhibit 276 which was introduced in connection with Robert Oswald's testimony. Mr. Martin, there has been introduced in a prior hearing what is now Commission Exhibits Nos. 274 and 275, a letter from William McKenzie to you and a letter from William McKenzie to Mr. Thorne concerning the discharging of your services.

Do you have any document which you wish to introduce at the present time concerning that—the reasons given for your discharge, because I would like to ask you questions concerning that?

Mr. Leech. May I ask the date of the letter please, sir? Give me the date. I think we have the originals, sir.

Mr. Redlich. There is one dated February 18, two of them dated February 18.

Mr. Leech. Yes, one to Jim Martin and one to Mr. John Thorne.

Mr. Redlich. One is addressed to Mr. James Martin and the other to Mr. John Thorne.

Mr. Leech. Yes, sir; we have the originals.

Mr. Redlich. Do you have with you any other letters in connection with the termination of Mr. Martin's services?

Mr. Martin. One from Marina Oswald.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, you said earlier in your testimony that you were building a public image of Marina Oswald?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Would you tell the Commission what you mean by that?

Mr. Martin. Well, in this type of thing——

Mr. Redlich. May I interrupt and suggest you don't thumb through——

Mr. Martin. Excuse me. We were trying to create in the public mind an image of a bereaved widow and a simple lost girl. And I think we did actually. This was for her, as I say, for her benefit. She has received some $68,000 in contributions, and the image is not all true.

Mr. Redlich. Would you tell us in respect to which in your opinion the image is not true?

Mr. Martin. Well, as I mentioned before about the bible, this is a very small incident, she has received numerous bibles in the mail, and to my knowledge has never read the first page of one, and most of them are in Russian.

This is a small thing really but it is part of her image, that she is a religious person.

She wants to be thought of as we have built her now but she doesn't conform to that image.

Mr. Redlich. In what way, how?

Mr. Martin. Well, she is lazy, for one thing.

Mr. Redlich. Lazy in what respect?

Mr. Martin. Well, as far as even taking care of the children. The children bother her. I mean to her they are a constant upset. When she left our home to go up to Denton, my wife offered to keep the baby there at the house if she liked, and Marina took her up on it and then Robert told her she had better take the baby with her. She hadn't seen the baby for over a week. And the first day she was back she was willing to leave the baby again.

Mr. Redlich. Is there anything else?

Mr. Martin. Her lack of, well, humbleness as far as all these contributions are concerned. She takes it as a matter of—she takes it for granted. She is quite unhappy when the contributions slack off.

Mr. Redlich. Has she discussed the amount of contributions with you?

Mr. Martin. I have kept her informed all along on it.

Mr. Redlich. Has she indicated that there is some relationship between the story that she reveals to the public and the contributions which she will receive?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Would you be more specific about that?

Mr. Martin. Well, she has read newspaper articles, for instance, that I haven't written but I have directed.

Mr. Redlich. Directed?

Mr. Martin. By giving them information.

Mr. Redlich. What is the nature——

Mr. Martin. To build it up.

Mr. Redlich. What is the nature of these articles?

Mr. Martin. Well, I recall one, I wonder if I have it, I guess I don't have it, that was written by Bill Burrus of the Times Herald in Dallas. It was a very good article, and not quite true, we will say. It is shaded in truth.

Mr. Redlich. Do you have the article with you?

Mr. Martin. Here is one Bill Burrus did that is when she went to midnight mass.

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin has submitted to the Commission an article which does not carry a date or the name of the publication in which it appears, but is headed "Marina Oswald attended mass, had quiet Yule", by Bill Burrus.

Mr. Martin. That was the Dallas Times Herald.

Mr. Redlich. Since we would like to question the witness about this, I would like to label it Commission Exhibit No. 326 and ask it be introduced in evidence.

Mr. Dulles. It will be admitted with no objection.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 326 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. Redlich. I hand you Commission Exhibit 326, Mr. Martin. Will you tell us in what respects this article is not true?

Mr. Martin. Well, I wouldn't say it is strictly not true. But it embellishes the truth.

Mr. Redlich. Could you be specific in terms of references to the particular article?

Mr. Martin. Well, for instance, let's see, is this where she went to church?

Mr. Dulles. Did she go to church?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Leech. It is my partner's church.

Mr. Martin. Well, for instance, "she wandered around the secret quarters for long periods of time, sometimes she listened to Christmas carols over radio or television", which I believe is not true. I don't believe I told that; that was just added in there.

"Marina continued her studies of the English language and watched television, including her favorite Steve Allen show". She doesn't even like Steve Allen. And, of course, she is never studying English.

Mr. Dulles. Was this information that you gave to Mr. Burrus?

Mr. Martin. No. That is the trouble with newspapers. I have told Bill Burrus that she watches Steve Allen. She does but just for lack of anything else to do.

Now I didn't say anything about the Christmas carols nor about studying the English language.

Mr. Dulles. You say she has not been studying the English language?

Mr. Martin. No, she is learning it quite rapidly because she had to in her own defense in order to converse with people. When she was living with us, there was no one there that spoke Russian so she had to learn English in order to converse.

Mr. Dulles. Is there anything else in this particular article that you would either regard as unslanted or untrue?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Dulles. Could you give us other examples where——

Mr. Martin. There is the first one.

Mr. Dulles. If you are planning to comment on that I would like to introduce it in evidence.

Mr. Martin. Yes. This will go with it.

Mr. Redlich. The witness has submitted to the Commission an article appearing in the Dallas Times Herald on Sunday, December 15, 1963, the headline reading, "Marina Oswald, all the pity in the world won't help", written by Bill Burrus. This has now been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 327, and I ask that it be admitted in evidence.

Mr. Dulles. This will be admitted, if there is no objection.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 327 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mr. Redlich. Mr. Martin, I hand you Commission Exhibit No. 327 and ask you to tell the Commission in what respects if any there is material in this article which you regard as untrue or exaggerated or slanted?

Mr. Martin. Here is a sentence in here, "She pores over the letters reaching her more than a thousand so far and is choked with emotion by the compassion and support they express", the only thing she did actually was to open the letters and did not open all of them. The only letters she read or attempted to read were ones written in Russian.

Mr. Redlich. What was her reaction to those letters?

Mr. Martin. Acceptance of it but no real thankfulness. The further it went, the longer it went, it seemed the less she cared whether——

Mr. Dulles. Did Burrus get this slanted material from you?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Do you recall anything she specifically said in response to these letters that is leading you to the conclusion that you have reached?

Mr. Martin. That she specifically said?

Mr. Redlich. Yes.

Mr. Martin. Well, for instance, one day she opened a letter and there was a dollar in it and she said, "Oh, a dollar", and threw it on the table, and there are little things that living as closely as we did, you can't really recall the specific incidents but there is a general feeling, and there is a complete lack of compassion as to what all these people are doing for her or trying to do for her.

Mr. Redlich. But you can't recall anything specific that she said which would indicate this lack of compassion?

Mr. Martin. No, other than "the American people are crazy for sending me that money".

Mr. Redlich. Is that a quotation from Mrs. Oswald? She said the American people are crazy for sending this money?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. Did she elaborate on it?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. Did you reply to that?

Mr. Martin. I told her that they felt sorry for her and she didn't say anything.

Mr. Redlich. Did she make any other comments of that nature?

Mr. Martin. Other than that dollar bill. Those are the only ones I can remember specifically.

Mr. Redlich. Would you continue your examination of Commission Exhibit No. 327?

Mr. Martin. Well, let's see, "unlike her husband, Marina is devout. She is a member of the Greek Orthodox Church", that is not true. She was not a devout Greek orthodox. She was not devout anything so far as religion is concerned.

Mr. Dulles. Did she ever say anything about the baptism of her child in that church to you?

Mr. Martin. Well, now let's see, she was supposed to have gotten June baptized without her husband's knowledge.

Mr. Redlich. You say she was supposed to have, where did you get that information?

Mr. Martin. Well, I read it somewhere prior to this article. This article has it in there. I didn't give him this information. He got it from some other article, and I recall reading it. And when she read this, she commented on it. She said he did know that June was being baptized.

Mr. Redlich. Did she read that?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. In English?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. She knew English well enough to read this?

Mr. Martin. Yes. It took her a while to read it.

Mr. Redlich. I would like to call the attention——

Mr. Martin. This is December 15.

Mr. Redlich. I would like to call the attention of the Commission to the date which is Sunday, December 15. You say as of Sunday, December 15, which is a little over 3 weeks after she came to live with you, Mrs. Oswald knew English well enough to be able to read this and understand it?

Mr. Martin. Not to read it legibly, I mean not to understand every word of it but she understood the biggest part of the article. I was quite amazed at how much she could read. She can't read writing or says she can't, but she can read printing or typing.

Here is another one now, "she is poring over children's primary readers and studying the Russian-English dictionary attempting to understand all the words and talk about her."

She had one child's book that one of the Secret Service men brought her, and she looked at it and that was the end of that.

Mr. Redlich. Where did this information appearing in this story come from? Did you tell that to Mr. Burrus?

Mr. Martin. Yes.

Mr. Redlich. When Mrs. Oswald read this story and saw things that were not quite true, did she discuss that fact with you?

Mr. Martin. On one occasion, let's see, what was it—it may have been in this article. Oh, yes, about the baptism. She said that Lee did know about the baptism. This was gleaned from some place else.

Mr. Dulles. Before or afterward?

Mr. Martin. Well, she said before. Before the baptism.

"She washes clothes for herself and June Lee, she cooks her own meals favoring macaroni and other casserole dishes." She did not cook her own meals. She cooked twice while she was at the house in two and a half months.

Mr. Redlich. Is this fact one which you related to Mr. Burrus, the fact she cooked her own meals?

Mr. Martin. I didn't say she cooked her own meals but she cooked.

Mr. Redlich. Do you recall what reaction if any Mrs. Oswald had in reading this comment?

Mr. Martin. The only one she commented on was she doesn't like macaroni, it is noodles.

Mr. Redlich. But Mrs. Oswald voiced no objection to your giving this information to the newspapers which to use your expression was not quite true?

Mr. Martin. No. "Marina now has the first dish washer she has ever used and she thinks it is wonderful". Actually, she didn't like it but now in most of this stuff Bill Burrus would ask me a question like, "Does she have a dish washer", and I would say "yes", and he would elaborate on it.

This is quite a sympathetic article. "Marina gets up at about 9 a.m. every day." She always got up between 10 and 11. "She asked Secret Service men to read some of the letters to her". I don't recall any incident where she did.

Mr. Redlich. Was that also a fact which you gave to Mr. Burrus?

Mr. Martin. No.

"As the hours and days tick by Marina watches television and struggles with newspapers. These things bring tears to her eyes, pictures of President Kennedy, Jackie, Lee Oswald, Mrs. Tippit, the wife of the slain police officer. Sometimes she turns off the set." That is not true.

Mr. Redlich. Could you be a little bit more specific about that? Were there instances in which she saw these people mentioned and what was her reaction?

Mr. Martin. No real reaction at all. Just there on television.

Mr. Dulles. You started to describe earlier I think when she saw a picture of Mrs. Jacqueline Kennedy and she made certain remarks. I don't know that we finished that.

Mr. Martin. Well, yes; she did. She remarked, "Oh, Jackie, Jackie", and that was it. There wasn't—kind of shook her head. That is in this article, too, and that is true.

Of course, this last paragraph, "The agents speak through curtains and she feels hunted sometimes despite friendly letters and packages". I don't think she has ever felt hunted or in danger. She has expressed that opinion. She didn't feel that anyone was—anyone intended to harm her.

Mr. Dulles. Did she ever express any ideas about going back to the Soviet Union?

Mr. Martin. She said it once and I questioned her about it. She said she was just—what was it—just joking. She used a funny sounding word for joking. I don't remember what it was.

Mr. Redlich. Do you have any further comments with regard to this particular exhibit?

Mr. Martin. No.

Mr. Redlich. I suggest this would be a good time for recess, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Dulles. All right. The Commission will be adjourned until 3 p.m., this afternoon.

Would you report with your counsel at that time?

(Whereupon, at 12:35 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)