TESTIMONY OF RALPH PAUL (continued 2)

Mr. Paul. Oh, yes, she closed it up right after New Year’s.

Mr. Hubert. Right after Ruby was put in jail?

Mr. Paul. No, right after New Year’s.

Mr. Hubert. You mean she sold it?

Mr. Paul. She sold it.

Mr. Hubert. Whom did she sell it to?

Mr. Paul. She sold it to two men and a woman that formed a corporation and bought it. It’s still called the Vegas Club—they’ve got it in the paper “under new management—Vegas Club.” I don’t even know who they are.

Mr. Hubert. Now, I handed you at the beginning of the deposition, or even before the deposition began, a number of sheets of paper, the first group numbering nine pages, purporting to be a report of an interview of you by the FBI agents Lish [spelling] L-i-s-h and Barratt [spelling] B-a-r-r-a-t-t, relating to an interview with you on November 24, 1963, running, as I said, for nine pages.

For the purpose of identification, I am marking the first page as follows: “Dallas, Texas, April 15, 1964, Exhibit 5319, Deposition of Ralph Paul,” and I am putting my name on the first page, and also writing my initials on the lower right-hand corner of every one of the other pages.

Now, I ask you if you have had an opportunity to read that document, now identified as Exhibit 5319?

Mr. Paul. What do you mean?

Mr. Hubert. Have you had a chance to read it?

Mr. Paul. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. Does it represent the truth as far as you know?

Mr. Paul. As far as I know.

Mr. Hubert. Are there any corrections you want to make or errors you want to correct in it?

Mr. Paul. Well, you asked me the same thing——

Mr. Hubert. By referring specifically to Exhibit 5319, you see, is there anything in Exhibit 5319 that is not the truth as far as you know, in this document here?

Mr. Paul. I don’t know.

Mr. Hubert. Well, that’s why I asked you to read it, so you could tell me whether there is anything you want to change in there and you may take your time with it—I don’t want to rush you at all.

Mr. Paul. This page alone, or the whole thing?

Mr. Hubert. The whole thing.

Mr. Paul. I don’t know what I could change.

Mr. Hubert. Have you read it?

Mr. Paul. I think I did—in what respect are you asking me that?

Mr. Hubert. I just want to know if everything in there is correct, and to give you the opportunity of changing anything in there that is not correct.

Mr. Paul. Well, I told you the same thing that you asked me—that’s all here—I can’t change it in any way.

Mr. Hubert. Well, you can if it is not the truth, because all we want is the truth.

Mr. Paul. That’s what I told you—the truth.

Mr. Hubert. Well, are you willing to state, then, that the facts related, the statements made in the documents, consisting of nine pages which I have now identified as Exhibit 5319, are correct?

Mr. Paul. As far as I can recall they are correct.

Mr. Hubert. Do you have anything to add that document that you think of right now?

Mr. Paul. As far as I could tell, when they asked me those questions, I told them that was that.

Mr. Hubert. And this seems to be a true and fair report of the interview with you?

Mr. Paul. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert. Is there anything you want to delete from that because it is wrong?

Mr. Paul. How is it wrong?

Mr. Hubert. Well, if it is not wrong, I would take it you would not want to delete it. That’s what I’m trying to do—is to ask you if there is anything in there that’s incorrect, because what we are seeking to get is the truth.

Mr. Paul. You think this is wrong?

Mr. Hubert. No, sir; I didn’t suggest it was wrong. I want to ask you—since you have had an opportunity to read it—— Mr. Paul. Everything I told them at the time was the right thing—I told them.

Mr. Hubert. And that seems to be a fair and honest report of the interview you had with them?

Mr. Paul. Yes, sir.

Mr. Hubert. All right, that’s all I wanted to know about that.

Now, there is another document which purports to be an interview with you by FBI Agent Clements.

Mr. Paul. On the telephone.

Mr. Hubert. On November 28, 1963?

Mr. Paul. Yes, over the telephone.

Mr. Hubert. Which I am marking for purposes of identification as follows: “Dallas, Texas, April 15, 1964, Exhibit 5320, Deposition of Ralph Paul,” and I am signing my name on that document. That document contains only one page and it refers——

Mr. Paul. To the stock deal.

Mr. Hubert. To some stock deal.

Mr. Paul. Let me see it just a minute.

Mr. Hubert. This document relates to some conversation with Special Agent Clements, which was had with you, and it is a report of it. Now, will you tell me—I think that that conversation was over the phone?

Mr. Paul. Yes.

Mr. Hubert. I don’t believe the document so indicates, but if that is one thing we have learned from this is that that was over the phone—does it fairly state the content of the conversation you had with the agent?

Mr. Paul. Yes; he asked me what was my interest in the club and I told him I got a certificate of 50 shares, which I received from Jack Ruby because he wanted to protect the money I loaned him, that if anything goes wrong—well, he didn’t put it in so many words—he put it in a different—collateral—you know what that means—and he said, “Is that what you mean?” And I said, “I guess that’s what it is supposed to be.”

I told him that Jack Ruby and Slayton formed the Sovereign Club and it was called the S. and R., Incorporated. I never knew anything about the Sovereign Club, Incorporated, that it was then terminated and became the Carousel Club, which he gave it a name.

Now, I don’t know whether the Carousel Club was incorporated, and I said, “I think it is Earl, Ruby’s brother, that had the 500 other shares,” but I didn’t know for sure, that’s what I told him. He said he believes Earl, Ruby’s brother. I was confused with the question of whether I owned stock or not, which I was. I thought it was merely—he gives me the stock because, like I told you, when he wanted to sell the place he asked me for the stock so he could sell the place.

Mr. Hubert. Well, at the time you spoke to him, in fact you were confused as to what the situation was?

Mr. Paul. I sure was.

Mr. Hubert. What I’m asking you, is—is this a fair statement of what you told him?

Mr. Paul. I think I gave him a fair statement right up to the minute—not that statement—that statement isn’t up to the minute, but up to the time.

Mr. Hubert. But at the time—it was accurate?

Mr. Paul. At the time.

Mr. Hubert. Have you ever been interviewed by any member of the President’s Commission before?

Mr. Paul. No, sir.

Mr. Hubert. Now, Mr. Paul, one final thing—we have the two statements that you have given to the FBI, and you have what you have told us tonight—do you think that putting those two things together we have just about all you know about Jack Ruby and about what he had to do with the slaying of Oswald and so forth?

Mr. Paul. I don’t know nothing about the slaying of Oswald—that’s for sure.

Mr. Hubert. I understand that, but we know all you know about it when we have what you told us tonight and this statement—there’s nothing else?

Mr. Paul. I just told you all I know about Jack Ruby for 15 years.

Mr. Hubert. There’s nothing we don’t know that you know?

Mr. Paul. That’s right.

Mr. Hubert. Is that a fair statement?

Mr. Paul. If I knew any more I would be willing to tell you, because you didn’t pull the words out of my mouth either.

Mr. Hubert. No; that’s correct.

Mr. Paul. I spoke to you as I knew it.

Mr. Hubert. Have you anything else to add?

Mr. Paul. No—really, no.

Mr. Hubert. Well, thank you, sir. I appreciate your coming in and I am sorry it took so long.

Mr. Paul. Well, that’s perfectly all right.

Mr. Hubert. Thank you very much for coming in.

Mr. Paul. All right, thank you.