TESTIMONY OF COMDR. JAMES J. HUMES (continued 2)

Mr. Specter. Now as to that last factor, would the X-rays be of material assistance to you in pinpointing the specific locale of the exit?

Commander Humes. I do not believe so, sir. The only path that the X-rays show in any detail are of the minor fragments which passed from point A to point B.

Mr. Specter. Now that you have finished your major descriptions of the wounds, can you be any more specific in telling us in what way the availability of the x-rays would assist in further specifying the nature of the wounds?

Commander Humes. I do not believe, sir, that the availability of the X-rays would materially assist the Commission.

Mr. Specter. How about the same question as to the pictures?

Commander Humes. The pictures would show more accurately and in more detail the character of the wounds as depicted particularly in 385 and 386 and in 388-A. They would also perhaps give the Commissioners a better—better is not the best term, but a more graphic picture of the massive defect in 388.

Mr. Specter. Going back for a moment, Doctor Humes——

The Chairman. Before we get off that, may I ask you this, Commander: If we had the pictures here and you could look them over again and restate your opinion, would it cause you to change any of the testimony you have given here?

Commander Humes. To the best of my recollection, Mr. Chief Justice, it would not.

The Chairman. Mr. McCloy.

Mr. McCloy. May I ask this question?

The Chairman. Go right ahead.

Mr. McCloy. Do you have any knowledge as to whether or not any photographs were taken in Dallas?

Commander Humes. I have none, sir, no knowledge.

Mr. McCloy. No knowledge that any were taken?

Representative Ford. May I ask what size are the pictures to which you refer?

Commander Humes. We exposed both black and white and color negatives, Congressman. They were exposed in the morgue during the examination. They were not developed. The kodachrome negatives when developed would be 405. They were in film carriers or cassettes, as were the black and white. Of course they could be magnified.

Representative Ford. Have those been examined by personnel at Bethesda?

Commander Humes. No, sir. We exposed these negatives; we turned them over. Here I must ask the counsel again for advice—to the Secret Service.

Mr. Specter. Yes; it was the Secret Service.

Commander Humes. They were turned over to the Secret Service in their cassettes unexposed, and I have not seen any of them since. This is the photographs. The X-rays were developed in our X-ray department on the spot that evening, because we had to see those right then as part of our examination, but the photographs were made for the record and for other purposes.

Representative Ford. But they had never been actually developed for viewing.

Commander Humes. I do not know, sir.

Mr. Specter. Doctor Humes, back to the angles for just a moment.

Commander Humes. Yes, sir.

Mr. Specter. Hypothesize or assume, if you will, that other evidence will show that the wound inflicted on Commission Exhibit 385 at point C occurred while the President was riding in the rear seat of his automobile approximately 100 feet from a point of origin in a six-floor building nearby, and assume further that the wound inflicted in 388 at point A occurred when the President was approximately 250 feet away from the same point.

With those assumptions in mind, there would be somewhat different angles of declination going from C to D on 385 and from A to B on 388.

Commander Humes. I would expect there would.

Mr. Specter. You have already testified earlier today that you were unable to pinpoint with precision angle A to B on 388 because of the reconstruction of the scalp.

Now my question to you, in that elongated fashion, is from what you know and what you have described, are the angles, as you have expressed them to be in your opinion, consistent with a situation where the two wounds were inflicted at the angles and at the distances just described to you?

Commander Humes. I believe they are consistent. I would state that the path outlined on 388-A to B is to a certain extent conjectural for the reasons given before.

Mr. Specter. Now, Doctor Humes, I hand you a group of documents which have been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 397 and ask you if you can identify what they are?

Commander Humes. Yes, sir; these are various notes in long-hand, or copies rather, of various notes in long-hand made by myself, in part, during the performance of the examination of the late President, and in part after the examination when I was preparing to have a typewritten report made.

Mr. Specter. Are there also included there some notes that you made while you talked to Doctor Perry on the telephone?

Commander Humes. Yes, sir; there are.

Mr. Specter. Are there any notes which you made at any time which are not included in this group of notes?

Commander Humes. Yes, sir; there are.

Mr. Specter. And what do those consist of?

Commander Humes. In privacy of my own home, early in the morning of Sunday, November 24th, I made a draft of this report which I later revised, and of which this represents the revision. That draft I personally burned in the fireplace of my recreation room.

Mr. Specter. May the record show that the Exhibit No. 397 is the identical document which has been previously identified as Commission No. 371 for our internal purposes.

Is the first sheet then in that group the notes you made when you talked to Doctor Perry?

Commander Humes. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Specter. And do the next 15 sheets represent the rough draft which was later copied into the autopsy report which has been heretofore identified with an exhibit number?

Commander Humes. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Specter. And what do the next two sheets represent?

Commander Humes. The next two sheets are the notes actually made in the room in which the examination was taking place. I notice now that the handwriting in some instances is not my own, and it is either that of Commander Boswell or Colonel Finck.

Mr. Specter. And was that writing made at the same time that the autopsy report was undertaken; that is, did you review all of the markings on those papers and note them to be present when you completed the autopsy report?

Commander Humes. Yes, sir. From the time of the completion of this examination until the submission of the written report following its preparation, all of the papers pertinent to this case were in my personal custody.

Mr. Specter. Have you now described all of the documents which were present in that 397, Exhibit No. 397?

Commander Humes. Yes, sir; with the exception of the certification to the fact that I, in fact, detailed them in my custody, and a certification that I had destroyed certain preliminary draft notes.

Mr. Specter. And these represent all the notes except those you have already described which you destroyed?

Commander Humes. That is correct, sir.

Mr. Specter. Now, just one point on the notes themselves. Page 14 of your rough draft, Doctor Humes, as to the point of origin, the notes show that there was a revision between your first draft and your final report.

Commander Humes. Yes, sir.

Mr. Specter. Will you first of all read into the record the final conclusion reflected in your final report.

Commander Humes. I would rather read it from the final report. The final report reads:

"The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased."

Mr. Specter. And what did the first draft of that sentence as shown on page 14 of your rough draft state?

Commander Humes. It stated as follows:

"The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above a horizontal line to the vertical position of the body at the moment of impact."

Mr. Specter. Now would you state the reason for making that modification between draft and final report, please?

Commander Humes. This examination, as I have indicated, was performed by myself with my two associates. The notes which we have just admitted as an exhibit are in my own hand and are my opinion, was my opinion at that time, as to the best way to present the facts which we had gleaned during this period.

Before submitting it to the typist, I went over this with great care with my two associates. One or the other of them raised the point that perhaps this sentence would state more than what was absolutely fact based upon our observations, pointing out that we did not know precisely at that time in what position the body of the President was when the missiles struck, and that therefore we should be somewhat less specific and somewhat more circumspect than the way we stated it. When I considered this suggestion, I agreed that it would be better to change it as noted, and accordingly, I did so.

Mr. Specter. Mr. Chief Justice, I move now for the admission into evidence of Exhibit No. 397.

The Chairman. It may be admitted.

(The documents, previously marked Exhibit No. 397 for identification, were received in evidence.)

Mr. McCloy. May I ask one question about the notes? The notes that you made contemporaneously with your examination, you said you put those down and then you put some in later. How much later were the notes, within the best of your recollection of the final notes made, not the final report, but the final notes that you made in your own handwriting?

Commander Humes. The examination was concluded approximately at 11 o'clock on the night of November 22. The final changes in the notes prior to the typing of the report were made, and I will have to give you the time because whatever time Mr. Oswald was shot, that is about when I finished. I was working in an office, and someone had a television on and came in and told me that Mr. Oswald had been shot, and that was around noon on Sunday, November 24th.

Mr. Specter. Mr. Chief Justice, I have now marked another photograph as the next exhibit number, Commission Exhibit 398. May I say to the Commission that this is a photograph which, subject to later proof, will show it to be taken immediately after the President was struck by the first bullet.

The Chairman. It may be marked.

(The photograph was marked Commission Exhibit No. 398 for identification.)

May I move for its admission into evidence at this time for this purpose?

The Chairman. It may be admitted.

(The photograph, previously marked Commission Exhibit No. 398 for identification, was received in evidence.)

Looking at Commission Exhibit 398, Doctor Humes, with that as a background, have you had an opportunity to review the medical reports on Governor Connally at Parkland Hospital in Commission Exhibit 392?

Commander Humes. I have.

Mr. Specter. Have you noted the wounds which he sustained on his right wrist, that is, Governor Connally's right wrist?

Commander Humes. Yes, sir; I have noted the report of it in these records.

Mr. Specter. What does the report show as to those wounds on the right wrist?

Commander Humes. The report shows a wound of entrance on the dorsal aspect of the right wrist. Let's get the precise point here. The wound of entry is described as on the dorsal aspect of the right wrist above the junction of the distal fourth of the radius and the shaft. It was approximately two centimeters in length and rather oblique, with the loss of tissue, and some considerable contusions at the margins. There was a wound of exit along the volar surface of the wrist about two centimeters above the flexion crease of the wrist in the midline.

Mr. Specter. Doctor Humes, I show you a bullet which we have marked as Commission Exhibit No. 399, and may I say now that, subject to later proof, this is the missile which has been taken from the stretcher which the evidence now indicates was the stretcher occupied by Governor Connally.

I move for its admission into evidence at this time.

The Chairman. It may be admitted.

(The article, previously marked Commission Exhibit No. 399 for identification, was received in evidence.)

Mr. Specter. We have been asked by the FBI that the missile not be handled by anybody because it is undergoing further ballistic tests, and it now appears, may the record show, in a plastic case in a cotton background.

Now looking at that bullet, Exhibit 399, Doctor Humes, could that bullet have gone through or been any part of the fragment passing through President Kennedy's head in Exhibit No. 388?

Commander Humes. I do not believe so, sir.

Mr. Specter. And could that missile have made the wound on Governor Connally's right wrist?

Commander Humes. I think that that is most unlikely. May I expand on those two answers?

Mr. Specter. Yes, please do.

Commander Humes. The X-rays made of the wound in the head of the late President showed fragmentations of the missile. Some fragments we recovered and turned over, as has been previously noted. Also we have X-rays of the fragment of skull which was in the region of our opinion exit wound showing metallic fragments.

Also going to Exhibit 392, the report from Parkland Hospital, the following sentence referring to the examination of the wound of the wrist is found:

"Small bits of metal were encountered at various levels throughout the wound, and these were, wherever they were identified and could be picked up, picked up and submitted to the pathology department for identification and examination."

The reason I believe it most unlikely that this missile could have inflicted either of these wounds is that this missile is basically intact; its jacket appears to me to be intact, and I do not understand how it could possibly have left fragments in either of these locations.

Mr. Specter. What wounds did Governor Connally sustain in his chest area, based upon the records of Parkland Hospital, which you have examined, Doctor Humes?

Commander Humes. Governor Connally received in his chest a wound of entrance just—this is again from 392—"just lateral to the right scapula close to the axilla which had passed through the lattisimus dorsi muscle, shattered approximately ten centimeters of a lateral and anterior portion of the right fifth rib, and emerged below the right nipple anterially."

These were the wounds of the chest of Governor Connally.

Mr. Specter. Now assuming that there were only three missiles fired, and bearing in mind the positions of President Kennedy and Governor Connally from the photograph marked Commission Exhibit 398, do you have an opinion as to the source of the missiles which inflicted the wound on President Kennedy marked 385-C to D, and the wound in Governor Connally's chest which you have just referred to?

Commander Humes. Yes. I would preface this statement by the following: As I testified earlier in the afternoon, as much as we could ascertain from our X-rays and physical examinations, this missile struck no bony structures in traversing the body of the late President. Therefore, I believe it was moving at its exit from the President's body at only very slightly less than that velocity, so it was still traveling at great speed.

I believe in looking at Exhibit 398, which purports to be at approximately the time the President was struck, I see that Governor Connally is sitting directly in front of the late President, and suggest the possibility that this missile, having traversed the low neck of the late President, in fact traversed the chest of Governor Connally.

Mr. Specter. How much of the velocity, if any, or would there be an appreciable diminution of the velocity of the projectile on passing through the portions of President Kennedy's body which you have described?

Commander Humes. I would have to defer to my associate, Colonel Finck, for an opinion about this.

Mr. Specter. Fine. As to any damage to the rib which you described Governor Connally sustained, would that impact or trauma be consistent with the markings which are shown on Exhibit 399?

Commander Humes. I think it quite possible. Here I think if this point were to be explored further, a most valuable piece of evidence would be an X-ray of the chest of Governor Connally, because I believe that this missile could have struck the rib a glancing blow.

The rib is a rather rigid structure, and the missile would not have to strike it directly to cause the fracture that was described, and the fracture is not very clearly described to me, and if an X-ray, for instance, showed no metallic fragments in the chest of the Governor, I would think it quite likely that this was the missile that had traversed his chest, because I doubt if this missile would have left behind it any metallic fragments from its physical appearance at this time.

Mr. Specter. Could that missile have traversed Governor Connally's chest without having him know it immediately or instantaneously?

Commander Humes. I believe so. I have heard reports, and have been told by my professional associates of any number of instances where people received penetrating wounds in various portions of the body and have only the sensation of a slight discomfort or slight slap or some other minor difficulty from such a missile wound. I am sure he would be aware that something happened to him, but that he was shot, I am not certain.

Representative Ford. Would that have been the potential reaction of the President when first hit, as shown in 385?

Commander Humes. It could very easily be one of some type of an injury—I mean the awareness that he had been struck by a missile, I don't know, but people have been drilled through with a missile and didn't know it.

Mr. Specter. Dr. Humes, under your opinion which you have just given us, what effect, if any, would that have on whether this bullet, 399, could have been the one to lodge in Governor Connally's thigh?

Commander Humes. I think that extremely unlikely. The reports, again Exhibit 392 from Parkland, tell of an entrance wound on the lower midthigh of the Governor, and X-rays taken there are described as showing metallic fragments in the bone, which apparently by this report were not removed and are still present in Governor Connally's thigh. I can't conceive of where they came from this missile.

Representative Ford. The missile identified as Exhibit 399.

Commander Humes. 399, sir.

Mr. Specter. Doctor Humes, would you have an opinion as to whether the wounds on Governor Connally's wrist and thigh were caused by the same bullet?

Commander Humes. In reading the description of the fragmentation that was found, fragments were found in the wrist, one fragment was found imbedded in his femur, I would feel it was definitely within the realm of possibility that the same missile could have produced both of those injuries.

Mr. Specter. Those are all my questions, Mr. Chief Justice.

The Chairman. Are there any other questions? If not, thank you very much, Commander. You have been very helpful to us, indeed.

Commander Humes. Thank you very much, sir.

The Chairman. Thank you.

Mr. Specter. Commander Boswell.

Mr. McCloy. May I ask one more question?

The Chairman. Of course you may.

Mr. McCloy. Earlier in the afternoon we had taken out of cellophane bags here the clothing of the President.

Commander Humes. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCloy. And amongst them was the shirt.

Commander Humes. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCloy. From your examination of the wounds, of the defects, I guess you would call it in the shirt——

Commander Humes. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCloy. Would you from examining the tissues of that shirt have any conclusions as to how that wound, how that missile passed through the shirt? Was it from the rear to the front, or from the front to the rear?

Commander Humes. As I examined that exhibit today, sir, the threads are fragmented and distorted in such a fashion which would indicate to me that the missile passed through the shirt from the rear to the front.