4. GENERALLUFTZEUGMEISTER[134]

4. GENERALLUFTZEUGMEISTER^[134]

Evidence

Prosecution Documents

Doc. No.Pros. Ex. No.Description of DocumentPage

NOKW-31162Extract from interrogation of Hermann Goering on 6 September 1946, regarding Milch’s position as Generalluftzeugmeister (GL).597

NOKW-418136Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 5 May 1942.598

NOKW-407137Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 27 May 1942.599

NOKW-406138Extracts from stenographic minutes of the GL-Conference, 7 July 1942.599

NOKW-408139Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 28 July 1942.600

NOKW-409140Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 4 August 1942.601

NOKW-412141Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 18 August 1942.602

NOKW-416142Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 26 August 1942.602

NOKW-286144Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 1 September 1942.605

NOKW-245157Extracts from stenographic minutes of conference with Goering, 22 February 1943, regarding plans for airplane construction.606

NOKW-449148Extracts from stenographic minutes of GL-Conference, 2 March 1943.607

NOKW-195143Extracts from stenographic minutes of conference with Goering, 28 October 1943.608

NOKW-180155Extracts from stenographic notes on the conference at the Reich Marshal’s on Thursday, 4 November 1943, 11 o’clock at the Junkers Plant in Dessau.613

Testimony

Extracts from testimony of defense witness Max Koenig615

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-311

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 62

EXTRACT FROM INTERROGATION OF HERMANN GOERING ON 6 SEPTEMBER 1946, REGARDING MILCH’S POSITION AS GENERALLUFTZEUGMEISTER (GL)

Interrogator: Now to the Milch case: Who was commissioned after 1941 with the labor allocation in the Ministry for Air?

Goering: What am I to understand by “labor allocation”?

Q. Labor allocation consisted of the drawing in of foreign workers or German workers, especially of concentration camp inmates, in order to free them for air force production.

A. This matter went through Udet, the Chief of Supply for the Air Force, until Udet’s death, and then it went through Milch.

Q. In what manner did the Reich Air Ministry submit its requests to Sauckel and the approximate figure for its requirements, the number of workers, etc.? And if Sauckel received such a request from the Reich Air Ministry, how did he undertake the distribution?

A. The requests were made by Milch, it was he who said how many workers the air force needed, and these were forwarded to Speer. Speer then asked Sauckel for the workers for the entire armaments branch, almost for the entire industrial branch, and he then made the distribution. It was he in the end who made the final decision as to how many workers went to the air force for instance, how many to the army, etc. As far as I know, Sauckel had actually nothing to do with the distribution of labor. The contingent was put at the disposal of the authorities. Terrific pressure was continually brought to bear on Sauckel. If the requested number was not brought, he was given hell. I personally presided over a meeting where there were differences between Sauckel and Speer. He wanted to have more, etc. There was a mix-up and that’s how I know it; but the needs of the air force were put forward by Milch, that is the Chief of Supply for the Air Force. When difficulties arose and they did not get the people, and the program threatened to break down, then they came to me and I supported their demands.

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-418

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 136

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 5 MAY 1942

[Two handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] Mi. 10.

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT ON THE GL-CONFERENCE

PRESIDED OVER BY THE STATE SECRETARY, FIELD

MARSHAL MILCH, ON TUESDAY, 5 MAY 1942,

10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY

Alpers: The reason given is shortage of labor. And in fact there are 2,000 men lacking at Heinkel-Oranienburg.

Milch: As far as the French are concerned, 60,000 of the ones that we had been promised are still missing.

(Comment: 40,000 are missing.)

If we get those men I would assign 2,000 to Heinkel-Oranienburg.

Frydag: The French become worse and worse; I threw out 80 of them who will be sent to concentration camps in Russia. They refused to work. The French say at 4 o’clock: “I won’t work another hour,” and you cannot make them work another hour. This happened four weeks ago all of a sudden, when the first bombing attack on Paris took place, while before that the French were the best people.

Milch: We were told in Oranienburg that they were good as long as they didn’t get spoiled by our German people.

Frydag: It happened here after we got the French from Messerschmitt; according to the French they got a warm meal twice a day there and had their laundry done. We cannot do either. We don’t have a warm meal twice a day either. At Messerschmitt the living conditions were better.

Milch: Gablenz, I want you to get in touch with Reinecke concerning these French. I demand that if the people refuse to work they immediately be placed against the wall and shot before all the other workers. I ask you to get in touch with the Reich Leader SS and to ask him to discuss the matter with the Fuehrer. Now is the right time; unless we do something effective now, the others will become bothersome. I ask that their being sent to concentration camps be taken into consideration too. I’ll tell you afterwards how you should act in such a matter.

So I do not agree. You should make another proposal. At the beginning you cannot expect more.

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-407

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 137

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 27 MAY 1942

[Three handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] To my

files Mi. 14

Vossen/Dr. Reynitz/Ca.

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE

PRESIDED OVER BY THE STATE SECRETARY, FIELD

MARSHAL MILCH ON WEDNESDAY, 27 MAY 1942,

9 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY

Von Gablenz: Yesterday, the first^[135] has exploded in France, at the Arade plant, an explosive, a float, but no damage has been done.

Field Marshal Milch: What measures have been taken in consequence?—I want to have a report on what has been done. How many people have been shot and how many hanged? If that guy cannot be found today, fifty men should be selected and if I were you I would hang three or four of them whether they are guilty or not. It is the only way!

(Mahnke hands another letter to the Field Marshal.)

What do you think of that man?

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-406

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 138

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF THE GL-CONFERENCE, 7 JULY 1942

[Two handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] St/R 21

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE

PRESIDED OVER BY FIELD MARSHAL MILCH ON

7 JULY 1942, 10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY

Field Marshal Milch: I do not like the engine. I have inspected it and for the time being anyhow, I shall not take the 177 plane as a traveling plane.

With regard to the output of Prague I want to say this: Of course, one must recognize good output, even of a foreigner. On the other hand, as far as the French are concerned, something must be done now. Gablenz, ring up Toennes and tell him that this is a crazy situation [tolle Schweinerei]. However, we would still try first to arrange it in a friendly way through Toennes. If that does not succeed, then I intend to fill the new Heinkel plant in the east entirely with Frenchmen brought down there by force. If they don’t work in France, they may work as prisoners in Poland. After all we have to remember that it is we, and not the French, who have won the war.

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-408

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 139

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 28 JULY 1942

[Two handwritten marginal notes at top of document:] St/R 24

Vossen/Dr. Jonuschat/C

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT ON THE GL-CONFERENCE

PRESIDED OVER BY STATE SECRETARY FIELD

MARSHAL MILCH ON TUESDAY, 28 JULY 1942,

10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY

Alpers: We have discussed whether a stronger pressure should not be put upon French firms by both our liaison office and by us here. I have talked with the French works managers myself. Actually they are all of the same mind; they are willing to exert pressure, but then the workers will leave them. In France there is no law that binds a worker to his place of employment.

Milch: As far as we are concerned, that is very difficult. But at the very moment when the deadline is passed for me, I shall say: Now there is no more French production. The workers are sent on leave or taken away immediately for other work. The French always want the proportion 1:5, but they only reach 1:2.3. In reality they have very much more, as we have received only old French junk. If we consider the actual output that we have received, then the proportion is not even 1:0.2, but exactly the contrary: 5:1 in favor of the French! At the present time we receive 8 to 9 planes from the French. I could well imagine that they get out 45 for themselves. I shall shut the shop with a single stroke and have the workers and the machines come to Germany. If it does not work on a voluntary basis, then we do it by compulsory contracts. Perhaps I shall first give them a week to think it over.

(Alpers: Amio himself is behind. For him the surfaces and tail unit factories are situated just right.)

—It is a fact that, on the whole, these people work in silent opposition. One cannot blame them for it either, it is true, but they should not have started the war.

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-409

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 140

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 4 AUGUST 1942

[Handwritten marginal notes] To my files, personally St/R 25

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT ON THE GL-CONFERENCE

PRESIDED OVER BY FIELD MARSHAL MILCH

TUESDAY, 4 AUGUST 1942, 10 A.M. IN THE

REICH AIR MINISTRY

Geyer: In the west there is a danger of the French going on strike in the event of a British attack. In that case, the whole of the engine supply would be severely handicapped.

Milch: In such a case I would ask to be appointed military commander myself. I would band the workers together and have 50 percent of them shot; I would then publish this fact and compel the other 50 percent to work, by beatings if necessary. If they don’t work, then they too will be shot. I would get the necessary replacement somehow. But I hope the military commander will do his duty. I’m not worried about it. The word “strike” must never be used. For us there is only “living or dying”, but not “striking”. That goes for the educated man as well as for the worker, for the German [Inlaender] as well as for the foreigner. The word “strike” means death for the man who uses it.

Gablenz: Sauckel also made an effort but he does not have a completely free hand. Lt. Col. Nickolai and Stending are still standing in between.

Milch: In spite of all, he has brought in quite a tidy number. Sauckel has brought over 1.6 million people to Germany, 1.3 million from the east and the rest from other countries.

Gablenz: We should not be sorry if Sauckel not only took care of getting the workers, but also of distributing them. That way we would fare better.

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-412

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 141

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 18 AUGUST 1942

[page 1874 of original]

[Handwritten marginal notes on attendance list] St/R 27

[page 1932 of original]

Field Marshal Milch: As soon as the figures for August are ready I request an exact account for my report to the Reich Marshal and also for the conferences which I want to hold with Sauckel and Speer beforehand. This account is to show how the labor question has developed, how great the fluctuation is and which nationalities it involves, what real requests we now have to make in the different sectors in order to cover the needs for specialists and for skilled and unskilled labor, how many of them can be foreigners, etc.? What happens to those who leave the industry? Are they being compelled to work elsewhere? Are they, as I proposed, under control in the camps supervised by the SS and considered as being in mild concentration camps, or are these gentlemen allowed to remain outside and do as they please?

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-416

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 142

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 26 AUGUST 1942

[Handwritten marginal notes] St/R 29

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE CONFERENCE OF

THE DIRECTOR OF SUPPLIES PRESIDED OVER BY

FIELD MARSHAL MILCH ON WEDNESDAY, 26

AUGUST 1942, 11 A.M. IN THE REICH

AIR MINISTRY

Milch: Is Quartermaster General 6 here?

(Comment: Yes!)

Do you know anything about it?

(Comment: No!)

Ask about it and inform Colonel Brueckner!

Frydag: Another important consideration is the letter, which you yourself have signed, Field Marshal, dealing with the expiration of the labor contracts of the foreign workers. * * *

Milch: The Reich Marshal [Goering] wanted to bind these people by law at one time, that was one idea. The Fuehrer’s plan would be more favorable. He wishes that the workers be gradually all replaced by Russians for whom there is no longer such a thing as expiration of contracts.

(Comment: But there is a certain transition period!)

Brueckner: You, Field Marshal, have yourself put your signature to this matter. The contracts are to be extended till 1 October 1943. I hope that it will be done.

Milch: On the other hand, a number of these people have been drafted into the armed forces. But if I consider the others, I arrive all the same at a monthly total of about 30,000 who loaf around and fluctuate from job to job. According to the suggestions of the Reich Marshal, these people are to come under the care of Himmler and are to be handled severely there. What has been done, so far, in this regard? Brueckner, you know about this matter, don’t you?

(Brueckner: Yes!)

You do not seem to be informed quite correctly. Sometime ago we were quite irritated about the fact that so many workers move about from one factory to another, most of them antisocial elements who do not like to work and whom the firms are possibly glad to get rid of because they do nothing but complain and grumble, do no proper work, are constantly late, shirk work where they can, pretend to be sick, etc. These people were supposed to be handled more severely, and about a year ago the Reich Marshal issued an order and gave the Ministry of Labor the job of dealing with this matter firmly. Then the Ministry of Labor issued an explanatory order which was nothing but a sabotage of the order and the desire expressed by the Reich Marshal. I reported to the Reich Marshal—in the very words which I have just used—that in this case his will was clearly being sabotaged by some lawyers or other poor fellows and that I asked him to take measures against it. He told me that he would talk the matter over with Himmler. That is, I had suggested to him that this matter could only be settled with the help of Himmler’s organization. The armed forces are not in a position to do it. The suggestion had been made that the armed forces should take care of these people in camps but these workers are not ready for that. They have not been condemned and in no way violate the existing laws, but act only against their country which certainly does not yet come within the sphere of the old legal nonsense. That is why Himmler should get these people into his clutches because he can treat them outside the law. My suggestion was that the people should be put into camps or, in part, just get numbers. The person involved would have a passport in which it is entered that he is a German of this or that category, and that his number is so and so. Then there are subsequent entries: At this or that time he did not work, at this or that time he was late, etc. If he “loses” this passport—because he doesn’t want to have it anymore—off he goes to the concentration camp immediately; the same thing happens if he does not show it when ordered to do so. Once every month the pass is checked by the local SD. If it shows that the man has been ill, or late thirty times in one month, then the SD takes him along and gives him a job in which he has to work 14 hours a day and where he is treated in the way he deserves if he is not willing. The Reich Marshal has approved this suggestion. Nevertheless I have not yet seen anything of the kind being carried out.

Brueckner: I know that such labor camps have been established.

Milch: In that case I want you to tell me exactly during the next conference, where these camps have been established, who is in charge of them, and how do we get these honorable gentlemen who do not want to work into them? * * * It is a simple matter to have these people taken care of somehow by the SD. It has only got to be taken in hand. I want to have a report on it as soon as possible. Otherwise I will talk to Himmler about it myself and see that this matter is taken very firmly in hand. I see in these people the greatest danger for the home front.

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-286

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 144

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 1 SEPTEMBER 1942

[Handwritten marginal notes] St/R 31 To my files

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE

PRESIDED OVER BY STATE SECRETARY FIELD

MARSHAL MILCH ON WEDNESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER

1942, 10 A.M. IN THE REICH

AIR MINISTRY

Deutschmann: Reports have come in from front repair workshops that up to 40 percent of the people simply do not come to work. Because of the difficulties in the food supply they simply go out into the country in order to have something to eat. At the plant Mechanical Workshops [Mechanische Werkstaetten] I have found out that the Poles have not come because Russian pilots had dropped propaganda material. In one case, I have seen that about 50 percent of the workers failed to come.

Milch: What do you do against that?

(Deutschmann: For the time being, I did not do anything.)

And where was that?—In Warsaw? In such a case, orders have to be given that these workers get a good beating. And Russian prisoners of war are used to give it to them.

Deutschmann: Just at the time when the Russians attacked I was planning to have 200 Poles transported to western Germany in order to fill a gap in the hoop production there. The conditions of procurement in Warsaw were such that I could afford it; therefore, I had no special reason to take measures.

Milch: If those workers stay away from work just as they please then they need a good beating and this punishment is to be administered by Russians. Contact the SD; tell them that these workers had failed to come to work and that I demand that they be punished and not by having their food taken away from them but by the slightly milder punishment of 50 strokes each on their behind.

Deutschmann: Various unfortunate occurrences have happened together.

Milch: I don’t care, these occurrences are none of my business. The unfortunate occurrence for the person involved is when he gets his good beating. And he should not fail to get it.

(Deutschmann: We have already drawn the attention of the Reich Leader SS to it; something is going to be done about it.)

Such occurrences must not remain unpunished, they must not happen. If those people mutiny and do not work, then I demand that some shooting is done at those occasions. We do the same in Poland as the British do in India, with the only difference that the British deal with their own subjects, whereas we deal with the enemy. I want none of our people ever to show lack of action. I make every section chief responsible to take measures to that effect immediately. He is not to administer the beatings himself but to go to the SD and demand that this or that is done. What kind of measures they take we will leave to the SD, but I want to have a report on what has been done in such cases! What do you think would happen to a worker in Germany if he went on strike?

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-245

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 157

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF CONFERENCE WITH GOERING, 22 FEBRUARY 1943, REGARDING PLANS FOR AIRPLANE CONSTRUCTION

Milch: * * * Just now things are not going well. Sauckel has agreed with Speer and myself that von der Heyde is to go to Paris to ascertain on the very spot what may be taken away. If we want to maintain the program we require an additional 80,000 workmen over there. Sauckel said he recognized that and promised to deliver them. If the promise is kept all will be all right.

Reich Marshal: What sense does it make to leave the workers there?

Milch: There is no good will in France, and you can really not expect it from these fellows. But we will force them to work by not feeding them.

Reich Marshal: I can do this here much better.

Milch: That’ll get us nowhere. We shall then have to shut down the plants in France.

Reich Marshal: The fault is this: Sauckel should have said: Milch, there are too many skilled workers in that plant; take so-and-so many out for your German plants; I am going to replace those skilled workers from our French workers pool. Otherwise there is no sense in his taking them away.

Milch: Until six months ago we piloted the whole French industry by way of the government, but since then we changed and took sponsor-firms. * * *

Reich Marshal: I’ll tell Sauckel not to touch our industry at all. But we must do it ourselves.

Milch: I told Sauckel that we will cooperate on all matters on the very spot, that we will get the thing done but not smash up anything that is producing for us or is going to produce. He admitted that his men had acted wrongly. * * * Speer and myself are of the opinion that he must be incorporated somehow in the Central Planning in order to secure manpower for us as well as the material. Now we got the first workers in November; prior to that date none at all. Of course, by taking into account the many fluctuations he arrives at fantastic figures. We try to diminish the fluctuations with the aid of Himmler and Ley. The military physicians are put in to examine the men. I have proposed that a man who leaves his working place more than three times a year, should be put into a detention camp and be released only when he stays on the very spot. * * *

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-449

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 148

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF GL-CONFERENCE, 2 MARCH 1943

[Handwritten marginal notes] To my filesMi

Secret

SHORTHAND TRANSCRIPT OF THE GL-CONFERENCE

PRESIDED OVER BY THE STATE SECRETARY FIELD

MARSHAL MILCH ON TUESDAY, 2 MARCH 1943,

10 A.M. IN THE REICH AIR MINISTRY

Milch: Another question! All the reports from France show that the French have got their heads full of political thoughts and ideas. On the basis of the news they tell themselves: They are retreating on the eastern front and the English and Americans are gradually getting afraid that the Russians alone will be victorious. The French go on to say: If the promises made to us by the Americans are really kept, our fortunes are made. That has already led to our foreign workers slowly becoming hostile. On principle I have to be informed of every case of swinishness. I do not understand at all why Germany should put up with it when Poles and Frenchmen explain to the people: Today indeed you are still sitting in this work, but later we shall be the owners and if you treat us properly we shall see to it then that you are shot dead immediately and not tortured first. In all these matters energetic interference must be made. I am of the opinion that there should be only two types of punishment in such cases: firstly, a concentration camp for foreigners, and secondly, capital punishment. If a certain number of such hostile elements are removed and the others are informed, they will then work better. Their love for us certainly won’t become any greater, but neither will their hate, for it is already strong enough. In this respect, too, energetic interference must be made and in no case must the workers put up with it. The best method is to give the person concerned one with a sledge-hammer and I shall treat with distinction every man who does something like that whenever he hears such stupid nonsense. We are living in a total war and the workers must be told that they don’t have to put up with anything. Now the question is whether or not the gentlemen believe on the whole that we achieve something worth mentioning with our production in France. For then we must consider that the establishments there will be besieged. Then the French would have to be forced to come to Germany. There I must reflect on whether the available means of compulsion are sufficient. That does not depend on me. But, in the abstract, I see no difficulties in the way of getting 100,000 or 200,000 French workers to Germany, nor do I see any difficulties in the way of keeping them in order. If a case of sabotage occurs in one area, every tenth man in that area will be shot. Then such acts of sabotage would cease of themselves. The western peoples are very much afraid of death, while it is a quite different matter with the Russians.

PARTIAL TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-195

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 143

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC MINUTES OF CONFERENCE WITH GOERING, 28 OCTOBER 1943

[Handwritten] Notes for Discussion No 116/43/KD st. 4th copy

[Signature] Milch

STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF THE DISCUSSION WITH

THE REICH MARSHAL ON 28 OCTOBER 1943,

12 O’CLOCK AT KARINHALL

Subject:Allocation of Labor.

Effects of the Drafting of Laborers.

Participants:

Reich Marshal

Reich Minister Speer

Field Marshal Milch

Gauleiter Sauckel

General von der Heyde

Staatsrat Gritzbach

Ministerialrat Dr. Groennert

Ministerialdirektor Hildebrand

Landrat Berg

Lt. Colonel Biesing, GSC

Lt. Colonel von Brauchitsch, GSC

Director Frydag

Dr. Janicke/Dr. Eggeling/Bs

25 October 1943

Milch: Interesting are the figures on the decrease of prisoners of war where one had believed they would remain stable. Between January and August the figure went down for the Russians from 22,000 to 19,000; for the others, from 48,000 to 28,000. In the summer the prisoners of war decreased from 70,000 to 48,000.

Reich Marshal: But here you report to me and to the Fuehrer: From 1 January to 30 September a total of 2,200,000 in manpower could be made available for armament production,

(Comment by Sauckel: But not for the first time.)

among whom there are 770,000 prisoners of war. Through allocation 300,000 of these who had been drafted for armament and the armed services, and those who left for other reasons, were replaced, and labor for the most important armament industries was increased by 650,000, from 5.3 million to 5.9 million.

(Reading continued.)

Frydag: Those are the total allocations.

(Reich Marshal: I took that to be net allocation.)

No, gross.

Milch: The Luftwaffe has increased by 150,000 men; the army by 240,000; the navy by 50,000; military administration has remained stable. For the Wehrmacht armament alone, there has been an increase of 400,000 men. Then other industries, including state railway [Reichsbahn], postal service, experts basic materials industry, make a total increase of 5.29 million, i.e., an actual addition of 500,000 men in this whole area within half a year.

Reich Marshal: Then there is one more question which again belongs here and which in all seriousness must be discussed. Suppose that, in the central sector of Holland, between Arnhem, Utrecht, and Dortrecht, I place at your disposal for three days 15,000 young German soldiers—recruits who have been there eight days, together with their respective officers’ corps for handling the executive—to catch the young Dutchmen (this would have to be carefully prepared, of course)—would you expect good results? It goes without saying that everything must be well organized in advance, transport to move them out, camps to receive them here, far away from the Dutch frontier.

Sauckel: Considering the Dutch population figure that amounts to something. However, the same should be done in Poland and France.

Reich Marshal: Naturally, after that has been done once, one has to modify the system for the second blow. Then the Dutch people will no longer be out in the streets on Sundays for pleasure promenades.

Speer: Care should be taken though, not to affect the protected industries which we have established there. Their workers are also out for walks on Sundays.

Reich Marshal: First, all of the people must be brought together in a pen [Pferch]; then they will be asked individually who works where, and then the men will be selected accordingly.

Sauckel: We should like to set an example. However, I do not like to rely on this alone for the next year; but I should like to ask that one have the confidence in us that, reasonably speaking we are doing things in the right way. The factories which Speer barred to us * * *.

Reich Marshal: Really I am not imposing. But when I constantly hear: I could do very much if I only had the executive power, then I am ready to assist you, not permanently, but then, for five days or one week, by putting my men at your disposal. In France also we have training regiments, and the army, too, could arrange to make certain units available so as to make a big push.

Sauckel: If I may be permitted to speak quite frankly, the conditions are as follows: All of our Military Commanders, and also our Commissioners General—with the exception of Koch—also the general governors, take the stand that in all of their regions the supreme law is tranquility and order. Also during the present era of war these German people still feel—after all that is typically German—the inherent obligation of maintaining order in their country and of somehow protecting the local population.

(Reich Marshal: They do not see Germany, but Seyss-Inquart sees Holland only.)

That is the greatest difficulty which we face, and in spite of the obduracy which is there I am of the opinion that we really have more friends in these countries than we imagine. I shall place my reports at your disposal, among them a detailed report of a Flemish man, an economist who lives with his wife in Weimar, works there, and who at the same time looks after the Flemish people in my district. The matter is as follows: Our highest political authorities in these countries cultivate to some extent social contacts with the local high society; thus in Belgium, bluntly stated, with elite circles, the high financial circles, and leaders of industry. They show to the German commanders in chief a certain demeanor of courteousness and of conventionality and thereby satisfy our gentlemen to a great extent. Under this mask, however, they permit their nearest subordinate organizations to persecute and harass everybody who is in any way friendly to Germany. Unwillingly and without being suspected by our gentlemen [Herren] we have in this manner placed the Germans who were there under pressure. They all have become fearful, and they bar their minds against Germany, and those who really did something for Germany resign.

Reich Marshal: * * * Our method of procedure in the expansion of the large air fields, Sauckel, would then be that, we try, first of all, to get a hold of the available labor in the vicinity of the harbors in France, Belgium, and Holland which so far has not been recruited in any manner by Speer or by the Luftwaffe, or by you—just as the Russians do, and as the British now also are doing in Southern Italy and Sicily. There is a scarcity of water there and he who loafs is not permitted to come near the water tap. They are very strict on this point. Now, in the fifth year of the war, we too must be just as strict. And over and above this I still need workers who will be fetched from regions farther away if those from the immediate vicinity are not sufficient. And then come specialists, whom Speer makes available from his organization, the engine operators and so forth. If I am to rearm the Luftwaffe with everything that is conceivable now, I do need a considerable reserve stock of laborers. Technical workers must be included. This is in addition to the number necessary for fulfilling needs arising from actual fluctuation and departure of workers. Now that would have to be considered in detail.

Sauckel: May I call attention to the following: That which makes things very difficult for me at the moment is the question of our currency. It is a fact that prices in France, and in the entire west, are very much out of proportion. If we bring the workers to Germany and, according to German standards, we pay them just as well as the German workers, that does not help them at all because their families living in the occupied territories cannot buy anything with the money that the people transfer. I should like to ask you, Herr Reich Marshal, to talk with Reich Minister Funk and the other competent officials so that under all circumstances and with all possible means the German mark will preserve its purchasing power against the French franc, just as it was done on the other side, during the World War.

Reich Marshal: All we need to do is to fix the rate of exchange, just as was done at that time with the dollar, i.e., today the German mark equals 20 francs, tomorrow 23, then 27, then 40, etc., etc., up to one million, or one billion. We have had all that. The same holds true for the guilder. One cigarette now costs in Holland 1.50 guilders; formerly it cost 10 cents. I merely have to say: 1.50 guilders equal to 10 pfennigs, or one mark equals 15 guilders.

Sauckel: That would solve a big problem in the wage question.

Reich Marshal: The same is done in Belgium. I shall schedule a discussion on that with Mr. Funk. With friendly nations it is more difficult; nevertheless, there, too, we have to do it.

Sauckel: There is still something I should like to say. If this large-scale recruiting is carried into effect, even with coercion, it is nothing but compliance with laws which were promulgated there by their own governments, except that the governments declare they lack the executive power.

Reich Marshal: That is always the excuse; I simply shall give them the executive power.

Well, let me summarize it once more. We undoubtedly are agreed on the fact that what Sauckel brings to us here, and that which to us appears as stocking up, has been subject to a natural compromise and actually a greater number of people was necessary, to make up for the losses. If it had been impossible to obtain more labor there would, of necessity, have been a decrease, merely by reason of the draft, the increased rate of disease during the war, deaths, etc. The decrease in prisoners of war should really be insignificant unless there are modifications; on the contrary, I should like to see that the prisoners of war who had been released, Norwegians, and so forth, be taken again. Insofar as officers are concerned this has been done to a certain extent. It was the greatest nonsense ever committed by us and for which nobody thanks us. We have made prisoners of entire armies and we let them go again. We do not get anything from Norway?

Sauckel: No. Even Russians are being taken there, also French specialists.

(Reich Marshal: Why?)

The tasks there are much bigger than the population could cope with.

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT NOKW-180

PROSECUTION EXHIBIT 155

EXTRACTS FROM STENOGRAPHIC NOTES ON THE CONFERENCE AT THE REICH MARSHAL’S ON THURSDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 1943, 11 O’CLOCK AT THE JUNKERS PLANT IN DESSAU

The Reich Marshal: Give the prisoner-of-war camp [Stalag] commander my greetings and tell him I said the Stalag is the biggest racket in Germany and merely a camp where get-aways are being organized wholesale. The men do not even have to bother to dig a tunnel, since they can walk out freely in broad daylight. The Italians get beaten up when they do not work. * * * It is absolutely useless to take the Italians as soldiers, for they report for duty, it is true, but then they bolt again. We need them here, however, as workers for the 100,000 men operation. In the second place, why do we not get the machines? If I want to have them, I just have to occupy a factory by surprise.

Milch: There are no transportation facilities to make this possible. We have to let certain plants go on working in Italy, such as ball bearings, steel castings, and others, and we cannot take the people from there. The same applies to the technical sphere. The people there are working for us. All depends on our policy toward the Italians. I have ordered that they can be beaten up if they do not work. I have also given permission that Italians caught sabotaging be sentenced to death. If this measure is not desired by the higher authorities, which seems to be the case, we are powerless; then the Italians in the Reich will not be of any use to us, and they will not do anything down there either. Now the Italian has found the way out, he goes into the militia and, once he is over there, he bolts. There is one other way to make him work; if we do not provide the Italian with food and tell him: only those who fight and work for us will get food.

(The Reich Marshal: That is what the Americans do!)

Why do we not do it? In my opinion we should try to get the machines by force. We can manufacture 1,000 pursuit planes in Italy and the engines for them. The engines will go only through Junkers, the other parts only through Messerschmitt. I should like to have the 109 and the 605 in Italy while they are still working, so that we can modernize our factories. We have the further advantage that the enemy drops his bombs not only on Germany, but also on Italy. We can disperse industry there in small valleys and we need not use the big Milan plants. The situation there is rather favorable.

The Reich Marshal: Above all, this question must be discussed at once with the Fuehrer.

(End of the conference at 11:45 p.m.)

St

149-43 III gK [Stamp]

Top Secret

The Reich Marshal of the Greater German Reich

Adjutant’s office

Adj. 2019-43 top secret

[Pencil note] For my files

Berlin W 8 Leipziger Str. #3

Telephone: 120044

Headquarters, 12 Nov. 1943

2 copies, 1st copy

[initialed] Mi 15 Nov.

To the State Secretary for Aviation and Inspector General of the Air Force, Field Marshal Milch.

Reich Air Ministry

Forwarded herewith for your attention and further handling are the uncorrected stenographic notes on the conference at the Reich Marshal’s [Office] on 28 October 1943.

Inclosure:

Notes on conference No. 116-13

Top Secret—4th copy.

[signature] Brauchitsch

Lieutenant Colonel, GSC and Chief Adjutant

EXTRACTS FROM TESTIMONY OF DEFENSE WITNESS MAX KOENIG^[136]

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Dr. Bergold: Will you please give the Court your first name and second name?

Witness Koenig: Max Koenig.

Q. When were you born?

A. 19 August 1897.

Q. What was your last position in the war with the Wehrmacht?

A. Lieutenant colonel in the reserve.

Q. And where were you?

A. With the commander of the Luftwaffe in Rechlin in charge of the testing station.

Q. Is it known to you, Witness, whether and what sort of orders, if at all, Milch gave with reference to the treatment of so-called terror pilots?

A. My department was subordinate to the GL, and therefore received orders from that office concerning the treatment of pilots who had made emergency landings, and such orders were to the effect to inform the Buergermeister [mayors] and the councillors that the prisoners who had made emergency landings should be sent to Oberursel at once.

Q. Then were these orders given or were they repeated in certain cases?

A. I myself went there in 1942 to that office and I remember very well that the first orders in this respect were given in 1943 and then in 1944.

Q. Have these orders provided for the taking of prisoners of all pilots by the Luftwaffe and taking them to Oberursel?

A. The GL ordered, followed by the threatening of heavy punishment if the orders were not followed, that all pilots who bailed out or made emergency landings should be taken at once in the quickest way possible to Oberursel.

Q. Did you transmit these orders to the mayors and councillors of your district?

A. These orders were passed on by the commander of the testing station to the ground organization of the base, passed on to all Buergermeister and the city councillors.

Q. Can you confirm that these orders came from Milch?

A. They came from the GL. It was even ordered how we should proceed. As far as I can recall we were ordered, among other things, that the contents of their pockets should be taken away from the pilots and sent to Oberursel with an accompanying letter.

Q. Did you know at that time that the Party wanted the pilots to be treated in a different manner?

A. I did not know that for we in Rechlin had hardly any contact with the Party.

Q. Therefore, you never corrected orders from the Party? Or would you have done this?

A. No. We were subordinate to the GL, and, therefore, we could only take orders from that superior office.

Q. Witness, what do you know within your office as to how concentration camp inmates were treated?

A. I should say this: When labor was requested for the building of a pillbox, we were given a detachment from Oranienburg. These prisoners were housed by the evacuating of our testing station, that means our German soldiers, in Laerz, and prisoners from the concentration camp at Oranienburg were moved into the billets of the German soldiers. There were about a thousand of these.

Q. Were the barracks in good condition?

A. They were not barracks in the bad sense of the word. They were the best billets which we had at our disposal in Laerz. They were new buildings and contained, apart from the living rooms, a theater room, and a big kitchen with, I believe, four stoves. I know the camp because I visited it repeatedly.

Q. Witness, what orders did you receive for treating of those people by the GL?

A. I remember two orders that were to the effect that all those who actually worked, whether foreigners or concentration camp inmates, should be treated well in order to save their good health and in order to increase their production.

Q. What has been done for that purpose?

A. As far as their health was concerned, under this order, I repeatedly saw to it that I obtained medical supplies from the hospital [Revier] of Rechlin.

Q. What you call the Revier is the hospital ward?

A. “Revier” is the sickroom which, considering the bigness of the agency, is approximately the equivalent to a hospital * * *.

Q. Let us go back to concentration camp inmates. What has been done in health matters?

A. Near Rechlin, there was an estate called Boek. This estate consisted of several thousand acres and apart from potatoes and turnips also produced wheat. On orders from the GL we received from that estate for the commando in Laerz and for the concentration camp and for the foreign workers large quantities of goods produced there.

Q. These concentration camp inmates; were they exploited unfairly?

A. I can say this—I myself was in the hall east from there up to the building of the commander, which was about a kilometer and a half. The foreign workers and concentration camp inmates lived in smaller and bigger groups and worked in such groups, but I could always observe them when I walked along the lanes. It seemed that when the civilian and other employees there were still working, the concentration camp groups had already stopped working because they had to be in their camp at a certain time. The time they needed to march to and fro was part of their working hours.

Q. Were they told to work particularly fast, or particularly heavy?

A. I can say this that I could really judge them because after all I saw them almost daily. Their work was not particularly slow, it wasn’t particularly fast. And one couldn’t say they were driven on.

Q. Were these people happy or did you hear complaints?

A. Should complaints have occurred I would have been the first to hear about them for it would have been my job to hear them, because I headed the particular office for food and treatment which was the liaison office between ourselves and the Stalags. I even listened at times to outbursts of joy. And from the liaison office we bought everything, beginning from cigarettes and other small gifts, foodstuffs, etc. This was used both in the camps and foreign workers, and the foreign workers were always running about freely there.

Q. Did your office ask for concentration camp inmates or were they sent to you by labor exchange on the basis of assignment of labor?

A. We had to use two ways, we had to use two channels here—one through labor exchanges and the other through the GL who ordered labor for us and on the basis of our application with the labor exchanges and the GL, this special commando and attachment came, whether on the basis of our application I really don’t know.

Q. Did you request concentration camp inmates or simply workers?

A. I may say quite frankly here I asked for German workers and I expected they would turn up but as we were under orders to maintain secrecy, neither did I think of foreign workers nor concentration camp inmates.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Mr. Denney: Just what was your job in Rechlin?

A. I was I B or I Bertha—that means an organization, and my job was looking after the army.

Q. Well, in your position having to do with figures you possibly were concerned with labor in Rechlin?

A. From Rechlin we were ordered to build a shelter in Laerz, and to carry this out we had to ask for labor.

Q. Didn’t they consolidate requests for labor and give them to you and you would send them up?

A. Requests were sent on to the labor offices on the one hand, and on the other hand to the GL.

Q. And they were sent by you?

A. They were sent by the commanding officer of the testing station, that is, to say, my superior officer.

Q. But you got them up and gave them to him to send them on?

A. I worked on them and passed them on to my commanding officer.

Q. You said that you had concentration camp workers—you also had foreign workers didn’t you?

A. There were about 1,000 concentration inmates and a certain number of foreign workers—Russians, French, and Italians.

Q. Did you have any prisoners of war?

A. Yes. We had some prisoners of war.

Q. How many people were employed there altogether?

A. In Rechlin, prisoners of war and foreign workers, Germans, altogether there were 4 to 5 thousand.

Q. Well, now we have got 1,000 concentration camp workers. So that leaves 3 to 4 thousand. How were those broken down among prisoners of war, foreign workers, and Germans?

A. Prisoners of war, roughly 500. There were about 300 foreigners, and the rest were German civilians and German military personnel.

Q. Now, these concentration camp workers, were they guarded?

A. They were guarded in their own camps and in some cases on trucks were taken to their places of work on the east Boek airstrip.

Q. And the foreigners, were they guarded?

A. I think they were at first a little guarded or, let us say, not at all.

Q. How about the prisoners of war?

A. The prisoners of war were under a similar condition as there were not very many guards at our disposal—guards were very few.

Q. You talked about the concentration camp people marching back and forth. Were they marching under guard?

A. Yes. They marched under guard.

Q. In the stockade?

A. They were in large camps or huts under stockade and under guard.

Q. Was there barbed wire around it?

A. Yes. There was barbed wire.

Q. And guards walking around?

A. And guards, yes.

A. Armed guards?

A. Yes. They were armed.

Q. Now, you told about passing on these orders about the terror fliers to the Buergermeister [mayor]. The order that you spoke of that you got from the defendant?

A. From the GL.

Q. The GL was Field Marshal Milch?

A. That was Herr Milch.

Q. And you gave those orders on to the Buergermeister about the so-called “terror fliers”?

A. The Buergermeister and county councillors.

Q. And then one day you heard about four fliers who had parachuted or made a forced landing—anyway they came down—and you sent your soldiers over there and you were told that they were not available?

A. No. The officer came back and said that the police had arrested the four pilots who had made a forced landing, contrary to our order and contrary to the regulations where the telephone number of our airfield had to be passed on to the Buergermeister. The report to the Buergermeister had the purpose to inform the airfield as quickly as possible so that from there a truck could pick up the pilots.

Q. Which police had taken these four fliers?

A. Unfortunately, I do not know. The officer of the airfield came back and reported that the police had fetched them. He didn’t see the police. He merely was informed by the Buergermeister of this.

Q. And then what did you do? Did you call the Buergermeister up?

A. No. We passed this on to the airfield and the airfield reported this to the Luftgau. The Luftgau is the next superior office above the airfield.

Q. Did they ever get these four fliers back?

A. No.

Q. They never got them back?

A. I do not know where they were taken to.

Q. You were the second man at Rechlin. You know that these orders were passed on to the Buergermeister that you received through your immediate superior from the Generalluftzeugmeister?

A. I was not the second man. I was E commander—commander of that office. I was purely an expert in I B. I was concerned in this because Colonel Petersen of the SD commando ordered the airfield should make investigations because of the Milch order to the effect that every pilot should be at once taken to Oberursel.

Q. At any rate, you didn’t do anything about this after you heard it?

A. Oh, yes. The report was immediately sent to the Luftgau that the pilots had been taken away.

Q. Did you send the report?

A. No. The report had to be sent by the competent office of the ground organization—namely, the airfield.

Q. You never made any effort to find out what happened to these four Allied fliers?

A. Oh, yes, that was passed on at once and the airfield having received it sent it on to the Luftgau and continued to work on this matter. What happened at the end I could not possibly find out because the Luftgau, the next highest office, had to report on it through those channels of command.

Q. You never tried to find out, did you? Did you ever call up anybody over at the Luftgau and ask them what happened to these four fliers?

A. No. I could hardly do that because I belonged to the testing station and there was a certain amount of dualism. It was rather like air activity on the one hand and the ground organization on the other.

Q. You knew what the Hitler order was about terror fliers, didn’t you?

A. Yes. I learned about this much, much later after this emergency landing in 1944. I heard about this in 1945 when I was interrogated in Munich by the Reich Marshal Special Court.

Q. What nationality were these pilots?

A. I could not say that. I assumed they were Americans, but I could not say that with certainty because we never saw the insignia of the aircraft nor even the pilots themselves as we did not take them prisoners.

Q. Were there any SD units around where you were?

A. In Rechlin itself, no, but my chief, Petersen, and I myself learned later on that we were supervised by the SD service.

Q. You say that in your position you would have heard complaints from any of the workers, of whom you had four to five thousand of whom approximately two-thousand were made up of concentration camp workers, prisoners of war, and foreign workers. You never got a single complaint from any of those people, is that right?

A. No. I can only confirm that repeatedly the foreign workers gave expressions of their gratitude for having this liaison office, which consisted of a sergeant, and for the additional supplies which they thus got from the Stalag. Strictly speaking, we would have been forbidden to enter the concentration camp compound because it was part of Oranienburg, and Oranienburg was an SS agency.

Q. So you never were inside, were you, in the concentration camp?

A. I went repeatedly there. I myself attended the hospital hours. That is to say, I looked at the ill people before they saw the doctor and I asked the doctor afterwards if he needed anything, and thereupon I got the medical supplies from the airfield and for that purpose I was able to do this because I was supported by the order of the GL.

Q. The Generalluftzeugmeister was able to arrange it so you could go into the camp and look around?

A. On the basis of the order where it was my duty to look after the people that they should be well-treated and well-looked after and, therefore, I was admitted into their compound.

Q. And the compound was under the jurisdiction of the SS who had jurisdiction over * * *.

A. (Interrupting) Yes. That was under the jurisdiction of the SS.

Q. And they had jurisdiction over all of the concentration camps?

A. I didn’t know that but all I know is that they came from Oranienburg and that the regulations concerning that compound came from Oranienburg.

Q. You knew that Himmler was head of the SS?

A. I heard about that in 1945.

Q. In 1945 you found out that Himmler was the Reich Leader SS?

A. Yes.

Q. I have no more questions.

Judge Musmanno: Witness, you mean you did not know, before 1945, of the power Himmler had in the SS?

A. No, your Honor. Particularly in the testing station we did not discuss that nor did we receive many reports there. The attitude of my chief—I may perhaps say here, of the GL himself—it was known what their attitude was towards the Party. We ourselves were under the Gauleiter of Mecklenburg who supervised us. Therefore, we went to no trouble to look into other matters.

Presiding Judge Toms: This testing station was in Germany, wasn’t it?

A. Yes. Rechlin is roughly 120 kilometers northeast of Berlin on the Muelef Lake [northwest of Berlin on Lake Mueritz].

Q. And an officer of the German army, 120 kilometers from Berlin, didn’t know who Himmler was until 1945?

A. Of course, I knew that Himmler was a Party member but that Himmler had all the concentration camps under him I really didn’t know until very much later.

Q. But you knew he was head of the SS?

A. I knew that he was an SS commander. I did not know until then that he was the head of the SS.

Judge Phillips: How many concentration camp victims did you hear were killed up to 1945, starved to death and killed?

A. I did not know that and I only learned it from press notices which came out in connection with the Nuernberg trials.

Q. How many concentration camp workers were killed in your camp?

A. Nobody was tortured or killed in our camp; not even one man.

Q. Did any of them die a natural death while you were there?

A. Nobody died; I can confirm to the Court that both the health and the individuals’ happiness was such that there was neither case of death nor complaint.

Presiding Judge Toms: The name of this concentration camp I must know. What was it?

A. The camp was near Rechlin and was an agency attached to Oranienburg.

Q. That was Oranienburg you were talking about?

A. It must have been a branch of Oranienburg. Up to my resignation on 31 January 1945, neither a torture nor a fatality occurred there. I said that before, your Honor, and I should like to repeat it.

Q. Don’t repeat it.

Judge Musmanno: How many inmates were there in this camp; what was the population of this camp?

A. The camp was roughly about 1,000 people strong.

Q. And how long were you there?

A. From October 1942 until 31 January 1945.

Q. And you say that in approximately three years’ time there was not one death in this camp?

A. Your Honor, the camp was not founded in 1942; as far as I can remember, it only came at the end of 1943 or early in 1944. I cannot give you the exact figure of the arrivals. I think it must have been at the end of 1943 or the beginning of 1944.

Q. And in all that time there was not one single death in the entire camp?

A. Your Honor, I had not heard of one single case of death. Should one case of death have occurred, it is possible that the SS in Oranienburg would have been told. We ourselves had not heard of one case of death in that camp, but during the day we assigned SS men in various groups.

Q. Do you mean this camp was functioning as a health resort?

A. On that, I can say, your Honor, that after the end of the war, I heard that before the end of the war when people left, they left very reluctantly, because there they were given food just as much as was corresponding to their performance and, in turn, they were actually able to work there.