TRIAL OF PEDRO DE ZULUETA, JUN., ESQ., (continued 2)

Then comes a statement as to the mode of carrying on the trade, which will be read to you, but I do not think it necessary to read it now. “Have you shipped English manufactured goods direct to the coast of Africa, on behalf of both those houses?—Such goods as were in the Augusta, I have shipped for one party only. With regard to the house of Blanco & Carvalho, and the house of Pedro Martinez & Co., with both of them I have carried on a general large business. But to Blanco & Carvalho I never shipped a single piece of goods of any kind, except some sugar mills to the Havannah; and with regard to the house of Pedro Martinez, we have shipped such goods as those by the Augusta.” “From your general knowledge of the trade of the house of Pedro Martinez & Co., is it your opinion that the goods which you so shipped to the coast of Africa were destined to be employed in the slave trade?—I do not know, they may be for any thing that I know.”

Now, gentlemen, I would humbly submit, that if they have that reason to know, that they do believe that the goods are so employed, and if they send the goods, it is not for them to shut their eyes and say, “I do not know.” It is like the case where a person receives stolen goods and no questions are asked, and he gives money in exchange for them. Such a person is as much guilty of receiving stolen goods, as if the person who brought them told him the fact. As to hundreds of persons whom you try for receiving stolen goods, they do not know, they cannot know positively that they are taken out of such a house; but they are delivered to them in such a way, or are concealed in such a way, that there is no doubt they were dishonestly come by, and that is as good evidence as if they had known where they were stolen. So it is not enough for a person to say, “I do not know; they may not for aught I know.” If he believes, and you are satisfied that he must have been aware of the fact, then the case is clear; it is no defence to say, “I shut my eyes, and do not know; they may be for aught I know.”

Then it is asked: “Has it come within your knowledge that the house of Martinez & Co. are exporters from Africa of the native produce of Africa?—No, because I never tried to get any knowledge of their transactions there of any sort.” “Have you ever received consignments from them, or on their behalf of palm oil, gold dust, or ivory, from the coast of Africa?—Never; we never have received any thing from the coast of Africa whatever. With regard to all these transactions, it will perhaps appear strange to the Committee, that I should not know more of the coast of Africa, having shipped things there; but if we had shipped to the amount of 100,000l. to the coast of Africa, or carried on any considerable trade there, we should certainly have known more about the coast of Africa; but in transactions of a very large amount, an invoice occasionally of about 2,000l. or 3,000l. of goods was a thing that we sent as a matter of course, and did not trouble our heads about, especially as the remuneration we got was a mere trifle, not of itself worth pursuing, if it had not been for the general business we had.”

Then the question is put: “Is there any other part of the evidence which has been given that you wish to observe upon?” and he answers, “It is asked here in question 5086, ‘Who was he?’ the answer is, ‘The name is mentioned in the Parliamentary Papers as being connected with the purchase of a slave vessel, Mr. Kidd; and it is mentioned in connexion with that of Mr. Zulueta, of London.’ Now, as to Mr. Kidd, the very first thing I ever knew or ever heard of his name was to see it here. I never heard of his name at all. I never had a letter from him or through him, or knew any thing of the man whatever. That is with regard to myself. With regard to my partners, I can say the same; I have been making inquiries about it. My father knew there was such a man upon the coast, but I did not know even that, though I have managed all this business. Our house never had a letter from the man, or knew any thing about him.” Then it is asked, “You have no connexion with Mr. Kidd in any way?—No, nor any knowledge of him. Then in the next answer it is said, ‘Zulueta, the gentleman in London, to whom the vessel was sent, and who sold her again to her former Spanish owner, is a name well known on the coast in connexion with the slave trade?’ Now what is known on the coast I really cannot pretend to say, but I believe that not many persons can say that which I can say, that neither myself, nor my father, nor my grandfather, nor any body in our firm, has ever had any kind of interest of any sort, or derived any emolument or connexion from the slave trade. My father had at one time an interest in a bankrupt’s estate at the Havannah, upon which he was a creditor. There were some slaves on the estate, and they formed part of the property assignable to the creditors, and my father got the slaves assigned to him; because the other gentlemen and the creditors were not of the same opinion, he got them assigned to him, and made them free; and that is all the connexion we have ever had with any slaves in the world. I do not know how far that may be considered irrelevant to the point, but I state it because we are here mentioned three or four times as connected with slave dealers, as a name well known in connexion with the slave trade. That sort of statement is rather a difficult thing to deal with.” “If it is meant to insinuate by these observations that you ever had any other connexion with the slave trade, than being the shipping agent of goods which were sent to a man who was a dealer in slaves, you entirely deny it?—I assure the Committee, that although I have a general notion as to what interest Blanco and Martinez have in slaves, yet, if I was put upon my oath to make any particular statement, I really could not, because I do not know it. Of course I believe it; but my personal knowledge amounts only to that which the knowledge of what we read in a newspaper amounts to.”

Now, gentlemen, we know too the trade of these parties in the Gallinas. If the prisoner believed that these goods were sent out for the purpose of carrying on the slave trade, and he did send them out, and you are satisfied that the name of Jennings was used as a mere cover, and the whole affair shows his knowledge, then I apprehend he is guilty within this indictment; and it is no defence to say, “If I were put upon my oath, I could not swear that the parties were slave dealers, because I do not know it.” If these goods were sent out in order to accomplish the trading or dealing in slaves, if that was the object of it, the statute says it is criminal, and the party is liable to punishment, for that is all that is ever done in England: the parties who engage in the actual transactions must necessarily reside in Africa. What was meant to be prevented, was the sending any thing out from this coast that could be so used. It is not sufficient to say, “I believe these might be used for the purpose of slave trading:” that would not affect him.

Then he is asked, “There was nothing upon the face of the transactions which you had with those parties, which spoke of a connexion with traffic in slaves?—Nothing whatever.” Why, would any human being believe that there would be any thing said of the kind? That would of course be kept secret. The vessel would not reach her destination, if it was avowed that she was going out for the purpose of slave trading. “It is well known, that, fifty years ago, it was in the ordinary course of business in Cadiz to insure operations in slave trading. My house at that time were underwriters, and it was notorious that a policy of that kind would never enter the doors of our house; and nobody would come to offer such a thing to us upon any terms. It is notorious, both here and in Spain, that we set our faces distinctly against having any interest of any kind in the slave trade.”

Then it is put as a question: “It is further stated, ‘It appears that it is a regular thing sending vessels to him, that is to Mr. Zulueta; if they come to England to him, he sends them to Cadiz, and they get out again to the Havannah and come again into the trade.’ Have you any observation to make upon that?—It is all untrue, the whole of it; I never received a vessel from those gentlemen; there has been nothing of the kind.”

The question is: “Have you any thing further to state upon the subject?—There are several things I have marked; for instance, such as this, ‘You are not bound to suppose that a man will make a bad use of that which he purchases.’ If I wished to put my statement upon that footing, I should have done with it in a moment, for I knew nothing of the use they were put to. I bought goods, but as to what use was made of them I knew nothing whatever. But that is not the position which I wish to assume. It is said here, that we sent goods or vessels to Pedro Blanco. To that I say, that we never sent either goods or vessels to Pedro Blanco.” Now that is certainly very extraordinary, for a very little while before, when the question was put to him, “Have the goods that Mr. Martinez has ordered to be sent to the Gallinas been all sent to the same individual?” he answered “No, to different individuals, sometimes to Pedro Blanco, who was for a certain time an agent of Pedro Martinez.” Then here he says, “We never sent goods or vessels to Pedro Blanco.” “In answer to Question 5474, it is said by Mr. Macaulay, ‘I stated, that it appears that it is a regular thing sending vessels to him, that is to Mr. Zulueta; if they come to England to him he sends them to Cadiz, and they get out again to the Havannah and come again into the trade. My answer was intended to describe only the course of that particular transaction, and not to apply to any other case.’ I never received a single vessel from the coast of Africa at any time, nor any body for us.” “Then that statement is entirely untrue?—Totally, from beginning to end; we never did so; and nobody for us, and nobody to our knowledge, or with our connivance; I deny it in the most distinct manner. In answer to Question 5487, Mr. Macaulay is asked, ‘Have you any thing further to say with regard to the connexion of Zulueta with the slave trade?’ The answer is, ‘I would refer to his connexion with the Gollupchik, which was lately captured. In that case it appeared that the vessel went out direct to the Gallinas from London.’ That is the same vessel as the Augusta, which I have already explained; it formerly bore the name of Gollupchik.” Then the Chairman says, “Have you been concerned in the purchase of vessels frequently for Pedro Martinez or Pedro Blanco?—We have sometimes bought such vessels here as we could resell at the Havannah, such as the Arrogante, which we have bought.” “Upon orders?—Partly on orders, and sometimes on our own account on speculation.” “For what particular trade were they calculated when they reached the Havannah?—I think for the same trade which they were calculated for when they were sold here.” “For the conveyance of merchandise?” The answer is, “As well as anything else. They were sold here publicly.” There is no doubt that vessels which are fitted for carrying goods may also be adapted for carrying slaves. Then Mr. Forster asks the question, “If it was legal for them to be sold here, you considered that it was legal for you to buy them?—I never had any doubt of the legality of buying here, or of selling them again afterwards.” “Mr. Wood. But the questions appertaining to the carrying on of the slave trade do not confine themselves within strictly legal grounds, but they have other more important considerations attaching to them?—As to that point there may be a difference of opinion; I would be very sorry indeed, for the sake of catching the approval of other persons, to make a disclaimer of any particular set of opinions whatever; but I believe the only point with which the Committee have to do, is the legal point. As to the moral point, it seems to me, that I am to judge of that; upon that point, I think I have stated quite enough, having stated distinctly that I never had any connexion, nor derived any profit from the slave trade whatever.”

There are then several questions: in answer to which he states, “That he never had any thing to do with slave transactions.” Those I leave to my learned friend to read. Then question 10451 is, “Had you ever employed Jennings before?—Jennings had had charge of vessels before, chartered by Martinez, and hence the connexion between Martinez and Jennings. There are some captains in all trades that make a great deal of difficulty about every thing, and others that do not; of course merchants like to deal with those that do not, more than those that do.” Then the Chairman says: “It would appear from Question 5087, that your name is supposed to have been mentioned in a Parliamentary Paper as connected with a slave trade transaction. Will you refer to page 38, in Class B, Paper of 1839 and 1840, which is the place referred to in the answer, and see if there is any trace of your name in that transaction?—I do not find my own name there; I only find an allusion at the bottom to the name of Pedro Martinez, but in a manner in no way connected with me, and stating a circumstance which I never knew. In Question 7965*, it is stated, ‘The Augusta had touched at Cadiz on her way out from England?’—The answer is, ‘Yes, and landed part of her cargo at Cadiz, although it was consigned to be delivered at Gallinas.’ Now Captain Hill, who has given this answer, must have known why she touched at Cadiz, and why she discharged part of her cargo; for it must be in the log-book of the vessel. It was because she was nearly wrecked in her passage; she put into Cadiz in distress; and there she landed a part of her cargo, which was tobacco which was rotten, and sold for the benefit of the underwriters. Now that has not been stated here; but I think Captain Hill must have known it, because it is in the log-book of the vessel which he took.” “And the log-book he must have read?—I should think so; because if he has not done that he has done nothing. All I mean to say is, that it is an ex parte statement.” “It was not intended when she left England that she should put into Cadiz?—Most certainly not; all the facts of the case show that she went there because she was obliged. I have not seen the log-book, but it must be there; because in the log-book the captain is bound to enter those things, and whoever captured the vessel must have seen the log-book of course. In answer to Question 7967*, it is said, ‘Messrs. Zulueta must be aware that it is contrary to law to act as agents, or otherwise, for the shipment of goods that are to be employed in the slave trade; they were bound to do nothing illegal; they are merchants residing in England, and they must conform themselves to the laws of England, and they cannot by the laws of England plead ignorance of those laws.’ Now I and my partners are British subjects, and therefore we are bound by the law, and we must obey the law; and I say that to endeavour to elude the law is criminal in my estimation of things. In the answer to Question 7970*, it is stated, ‘I have endeavoured to be particular in making it appear that this vessel was chartered to a place where there were no constituted authorities.’ I think that in the Gallinas there are constituted authorities. It is the first time that I ever heard that it is illegal for any merchant to ship goods for any places without ascertaining beforehand whether there are constituted authorities there. I believe that if they like to send goods to any place they may do it; and as to the fact of there being constituted authorities in the place or not, I do not see what that has to do with the question; besides, there have been such things as treaties made with persons at the Gallinas, so that there must be some constituted authorities there. But I do not know why I should be called upon to know whether there are constituted authorities at the port or not. Then it is stated, in answer to Question 7971*, ‘As far as I am able to give my own opinion, I believe that Messrs. Zulueta were perfectly criminal; at least they had a knowledge of what they were doing. I think I am borne out in that by the secrecy they have endeavoured to pursue in putting in a false owner.’” Then in answer to that observation Mr. Zulueta says, “I have answered all that before: I state again, that all the secrecy and mystery of the thing lies in supposing other things different from what appear. Then it is said, ‘In fact there can be no want of evidence to show that Messrs. Zulueta had for a length of time been agents to slave dealers.’ Mr. Blanco and Mr. Martinez may have been engaged, as I have stated, in slave operations; and I have stated that we conducted their general business here.”

Mr. Forster then asks: “Is not Pedro Blanco a partner in a commercial house at the Havannah, who are general merchants?—Yes, I have stated that before.”

“Captain Fitzroy.] Have you ever discounted any bill drawn by Pedro Blanco on Pedro Martinez & Co. for goods delivered for them on the African coast at the Gallinas?—I have accepted bills drawn by Pedro Blanco and others from the Gallinas upon our house, and paid them to the order of several houses in Sierra Leone and houses in London. I have paid them in money that I had in my hands resulting from the general transactions of business which I have explained. But discounting would be this, if I had paid those acceptances before they were due, and received some consideration for them; that I never did, but I might have done it in the case of these bills.” “Were those bills negotiated through your hands in payment of goods delivered at the Gallinas?—No; they were drawn generally with the advice attached to them, saying, I have drawn a thousand pounds upon you for account of Blanco and Carvalho, or Blanco & Co., at the Havannah.

“Mr. Wood.] By whose orders were you desired to honour it; was it by the order of Pedro Blanco at the Gallinas?—No; by the house at the Havannah, or by the house at Cadiz; sometimes the one and sometimes the other. Blanco had a house some time ago in Malaga, as a general merchant, occupied in shipping the fruits of the country and oil to the United States, &c. &c. In answer to Question 7961*, the following is stated:—‘In one of these letters, dated Cadiz, 30th of November, 1840, is a paragraph to the following effect:—In a letter, dated London, the 21st instant, which I have just received from Messrs. Zulueta & Co., merchants in London, I had the pleasure of receiving a bill drawn by you on them for 250l., which I this day place to their credit, waiting your advice of the same.’ There is here certainly a mistranslation of some kind, because it says that this man receives a bill upon us, and credits it to us, which is, of course, contradictory in the very terms of it; because, if the bill was remitted to this man upon us, he would have debited it to us, and not credited it.”—I believe it is perfectly consistent when the letter is produced.—“But altogether there is some confusion about it; I suppose arising from the mistranslation of the documents, because the fact is this, the bill is one of the bills I have already mentioned, drawn from the Gallinas upon ourselves, to the order of a third party. It is a bill drawn at the Gallinas upon ourselves, on account of the credit, and therefore it could never have been received by the person in Cadiz.” That would be explained by a former answer, in which he says, he had sometimes sent bills of lading on which he had accepted a bill drawn from him on the Gallinas, and sent it to the house at Cadiz. He would have just said, This is a bill drawn upon me from Gallinas; I have accepted the bill, and placed it to your credit.

Question 10459 is: “Can you give the Committee any information upon this: ‘The other letters,’ nine of them, ‘were all on slave business: not a word of any innocent trade, but the whole directing how slaves were to be shipped on board various vessels.’ How do you account for this vessel carrying letters upon slave business?—I account for it in this way. First of all, it is impossible for us to answer here what letters will be put on board a vessel at Cadiz; but there is very seldom any communication between Cadiz and the Gallinas; whatever letters there were must have gone by such random occasions as arose. As to the fact that whoever wrote those letters is engaged in the slave trade, the letters will speak for themselves.”

“Chairman.] Those letters were not prepared in the expectation of the arrival of this vessel, because this vessel was not destined to that port, and was only driven there by stress of weather?—Most certainly. I will add one circumstance in proof of that. The vessel was supposed to have been lost, from the circumstance of a boat having been found upon the coast with the name of T. Jennings upon it, and it was supposed that it was a boat belonging to the vessel; it was, in fact, a boat from the vessel, but the vessel had not been lost; therefore the vessel was quite unexpected in Cadiz by every soul. It went there from stress of weather and nothing more. Then it is said in answer to Question 7972*, ‘I think the papers are quite conclusive to the mind of any man that Zulueta was cognizant of what he was doing; but as far as it is an illegal transaction, it is not for me to judge; but the Judge of the Vice-Admiralty Court of Sierra Leone did think it illegal, and condemned the vessel; and moreover, the man who is put forward as captain and owner did not defend the vessel on her trial.’ Now, as to the statement of his being a false owner, I have already stated that he was not. But then, again, with regard to the other part of the business, the man did not defend it, because he was prevented from defending it.”

With respect to the first part of that answer—it is stated that she put into Cadiz from stress of weather—the evidence I shall lay before you is, that when she received injury from the weather (and there is no doubt there was a storm), she was within two days sail of Cork, and 18 or 19 days from Cadiz. The crew actually resisted; they did not mutiny, but they opposed going to Cadiz; and it was only on his making the arrangement that those persons should be discharged at Cadiz, that they consented to go on. My version, therefore, of the affair is, that she put into Cadiz, not from stress of weather, but from other reasons. Ultimately she got there, and there were certain letters put on board there when she was fortunate enough to get there, addressed to Martinez & Co., who were engaged in this transaction, who, according to appearance, were actually charterers of the vessel for Zulueta & Co., who gave directions where those goods that were on board were to go.

It appears that there was an objection to answer the question at the moment, on whom the bills were drawn, and it was deferred to the following day. On the next day he appeared again, when the Chairman says, “The Committee understand that you have some further observations to make upon the evidence which has been given with reference to your house?” The answer is, “With reference to the destination of the Augusta, from Liverpool to Gallinas, and the fact of its having put into Cadiz unforeseen, and unpremeditated altogether, in consequence of stress of weather, I omitted to mention a circumstance which will put the thing beyond doubt, and it is this: an insurance was made at Lloyd’s from Liverpool to the Gallinas, and it is well known that, of course, we should have forfeited the insurance by going to any other port, except from the peril of the sea; and the British consul at Cadiz is well aware of the circumstance, because he is Lloyd’s agent there; and therefore he had to interfere in the whole proceeding; without his sanction nothing could have been done. We have called upon the underwriters upon that account, and it has been paid, and which would not have been paid without its being proved. I stated yesterday that the transactions of my house with Pedro Martinez & Co. of the Havannah, with Blanco & Carvalho of the Havannah, and with Pedro Martinez of Cadiz, had amounted in the 20 years to 100,000l. I was afraid of over rating the amount, but on reference to the books of the house, I find that our transactions with them in 20 years have amounted to 400,000l., out of which the 22,000l. that was mentioned is the whole amount of goods that have been shipped by their orders for the coast of Africa.” No doubt, gentlemen, that is a very serious answer when you have this fact as coming within general knowledge: it was stated that beyond doubt they dealt in slaves, and that the whole amount of exports from Africa, as arising out of transactions to the amount of 400,000l. is stated to be 22,000l.; and that amount of goods from Africa would, no doubt, be in repayment for the same transactions. “Can you state how much of the 22,000l. has accrued within any given period; is it distributed equally over the whole 20 years, or has it grown up in the last four or five years?—In the last few years it has decreased, but otherwise it is spread over the whole number of years. In such a length of time it forms to our minds a mere speck. In the last six months our transactions with the house of Pedro Martinez of Cadiz amount to already 30,000l., and with Pedro Martinez of the Havannah, to nearly the same amount. With the house of Pedro Blanco & Co. of the Havannah, the amount has been 15,000l. for what has passed in the last six months, and with the houses generally at Cuba, throughout the island, it amounts to 100,000l. altogether, arising entirely from cargoes of sugar, and from tobacco, and remittance of bills from there in carrying on banking operations, upon which they draw again, which are negotiated in the Havannah and sent to houses in London to cash, and remittances of drafts on the Spanish treasury at the Havannah, and bills of lading of specie and bullion, and such things from Mexico. I state these things only to show the nature of our trade, and I have been particular, because as these are large amounts I wish to show what they arise from. Another fact escaped my attention yesterday, and it is this, that Don Pedro Martinez is owner of several large vessels of 300 tons and 400 tons, which are in the trade of sugar, tobacco, and such things, with us, in England and with Cadiz.” I believe the cargo on board the Augusta was worth about 5,000l.; I do not know whether this may be considered as part of this or not; you will judge whether they are to be attributed or not to Captain Jennings. Then he says, he has bought other vessels:—“There was the Star, Captain Jennings. That vessel was sent from here to the Gallinas, precisely the same as the Augusta has been sent. She delivered her cargo; she went from thence to Cape Coast, I believe, and from there to Madeira; she received a cargo of wheat; she came back to Spain, and she was sold at Liverpool to a third party, not Martinez, or any body connected with him; in fact, she was sold for very little. The object of that vessel was just the same as the Augusta, to maintain a legal trade with Gallinas; that is within my own knowledge.”

“Mr. Aldam.] What is the description of legal trade that was carried on?—Sending out goods to be sold at those places, and to go to other ports, not to carry any cargo from there to the Havannah.” “There has been a good deal of evidence, in which it has been stated that no legal trade is carried on with Gallinas?—I could not say what trade there is at the Gallinas of a legal nature; but I know that those vessels would have taken nothing, if there was nothing legal to take, from that place to the Havannah, or to any other place; I am aware that my answers upon this point must be deficient, because I am really very ignorant of the trade of the West Coast of Africa.” “Do you suppose that the vessels would be used to carry on a legal trade?—Most certainly I do; because persons find it worth while to send goods there constantly. The Committee will observe, that what the application of the goods is afterwards I cannot say, but I speak of the fact of the vessels having gone there with the intention of returning to the Havannah to bring a cargo of some description here, to pay a freight, and then to go again with the same kind of goods to Africa.”

“Chairman.] You have stated before, that you have cleared out for the Gallinas from Liverpool?—Yes.” “In carrying on operations of that kind, should you have ever thought it necessary to exercise any disguise as to what part of Africa you were clearing out for?—Not at all.” “You did not imagine, that in being the instrument of sending lawful goods to any part of Africa you were doing any thing which required concealment?—Nothing at all of the kind; and the proof of that is, that in the bills of entry in Liverpool any body could see our names as consignees of the vessel, and see entries made in our own names of every thing.”

Gentlemen, no doubt this is most important, and if this had been—it is for you to say whether it was—but if it had been a legal trade, would it not have appeared in the ship’s papers that this had been shipped by Messrs. Zulueta the charterers, and consigned to Mr. Martinez? In all this statement it is said, that it is beyond all question that this was not a transaction which ought to be concealed, for that their name would not have appeared in the cockets, the bill of lading, and every thing connected with it. Now, the fact is, that their name does not appear, for it only appears as shipped by Thomas Jennings. Now, Thomas Jennings is the captain; he makes a contract with Zulueta; he is not the person who ships the things; but in all the ship’s papers, and every thing connected with them, it all appears as shipped by Jennings, and their name is not introduced from beginning to end. “Is not there a document, officially published daily in London and at Liverpool, stating the daily entries at the Custom-house of all goods shipped, with the description of the goods, and the name of the port and of the shipper?—Yes, there is.” I am not aware of any such; but there is none with Mr. Zulueta’s name as the shipper on this vessel. “Is not this printed from time to time in the public papers?—It is in general circulation; there is hardly any merchant in Liverpool or in London who is not possessed of one. The Liverpool entries are reprinted in London, Liverpool being such an important place of business. The bill printed in London contains also Liverpool, Hull, and Bristol.” “So that every such transaction is perfectly notorious to every one?—Notorious to every one who chooses to read the public papers. There is another thing which escaped me till I came into the room this morning. As I have been in the business from my childhood, I know every thing that is going on an it. The Arrogante, after we sold her at the Havannah, was sent to Vera Cruz with a cargo of Spanish paper, spirits, raisins, &c., such as is sent for the South American trade, for the purpose of breaking the blockade of Vera Cruz, which she did break and went in. It was asked in Question 7147, whether the Augusta was equipped for the slave trade the second time; the answer was, ‘She was not.’ I wish to state, that before any goods were put on board of her, it was our express wish and order that every thing in her that was fit for that trade should be taken down, and the vessel put in the same condition as any other merchant vessel; and we should not have loaded any thing in her if that had not been done.” Beyond all question: she could not have gone out of the port of Liverpool if that had not been done; if she had been fitted up as a slave trader, she would have been seized before she went out of the port of Liverpool. “It is stated in the evidence that the Augusta was consigned to three notorious slave dealers; now we had never in our lives heard of the name of any one of the parties to whom she was consigned.” That is a most extraordinary thing. You will see how that is, if the letters are put in. Here are persons shipping to the Gallinas for two years; there are five persons there who are slave dealers, and nothing else; the prisoner has consigned goods there for twenty years, and yet he has never known the names of three of them as slave dealers. There is a difficulty in that answer, because he does not remember their names before he sent goods to them. He is asked, “You mean that the first time you heard their names was when the order to ship those goods was given to you?—Yes, and the circumstance of three consignees is a regular thing with distant consignments, such as South America and Africa. There is such an uncertainty attending the residence of parties in those places, that we invariably put a second and a third consignee in addition, in case the first should not be in the way.” Then Mr. Forster says, “Some bills were referred to in your former evidence drawn by Mr. Pedro Blanco upon your house; have you any objection to put those bills before the Committee?—Not any. And I ought to state now, as I have been looking at the bills more closely, that they are not all drawn to the orders of Sierra Leone houses, but to the orders of other Spaniards, and those people endorsed them to the Sierra Leone houses. This does not alter the case materially, but for the sake of accuracy I mention it.” “You will put them in for the inspection of the Committee?—Certainly.—(The same were delivered in.)” Then it is said, “You only hesitated in giving the names yesterday from motives of delicacy, not from any motive of concealment?—Yes, I do not wish to withhold any thing; but I am indisposed to introduce any name. I have no wish to conceal any thing whatever. I have been consulting with my partners upon this subject, and I have a request to make to the Committee. Our position is one which is certainly an unpleasant one. I think that what I have stated will have proved to the satisfaction of the Committee that we have not in any way intended to elude the law.” Then there is a suggestion that it is not necessary I should state to you, that if there is any difficulty a new Act of Parliament should pass.

Gentlemen, I have read to you, I believe, every word of the statement of Mr. Zulueta which is material to the question. I wished to read it, because I wish that there should not be the slightest possible ground for stating that I conceal any thing which he had stated in his own favour. You are perfectly aware, that where you put in the statement of any person against him, you take it all; you examine into the truth of that which is said in his own favour, and the truth of that which makes against him; you examine the correctness or incorrectness of the whole from this. It will be for you to say, how far you are satisfied that he had the means of knowing, and did know, that Pedro Martinez was a slave trader, dealing in slaves at the Gallinas. If you gather from this that he knew it, then the next question you will have to decide will be,—Was this vessel going to the Gallinas for the purpose of supplying the dealers with goods, the materials for carrying on their business, and the materials for the use of the slaves while in that situation? for there is no doubt that that will be an offence within this Act of Parliament. You are to say, whether he did know it or not. The goods sent were partly iron pots used for boiling their rice while in barracoons. Then there are other goods fit for barter with reference to the exchange of slaves, that being, as far as any evidence can be laid before you, the only trade carried on at that place: you will say, whether they were intended to be used for that trade. The question is, Do you know of any other trade in the Gallinas but the slave trade? The prisoner did not know of any other trade; he did not pretend to know of any other. Gentlemen, undoubtedly you cannot look into the mind of any one; you must judge from the facts; and therefore one material question you will have to decide is, Was this trade carried on in the way in which a person would carry on a trade who knew it to be of such a nature—was it carried on bonâ fide, or with a most careful concealment of the name of Zulueta throughout the whole of this transaction? If you find there was concealment, you must undoubtedly, as far as you are able, ascertain whether there was a guilty knowledge. If a prisoner had been charged with receiving goods knowing them to be stolen, and it appeared that he had concealed them in the way in which an honest man would not, that is evidence; so if you are satisfied there was a course of concealment, and that the name of Jennings, the man who knew of the affair, was used to cover these goods, they being shipped in the name of Jennings; if you consider that in the fair ordinary course of trade that would be evidence of fraud, then you will consider whether that is not proof that they were sent for the purpose of slave trading. That is the question to which you must turn your attention. I will lay the evidence before you: I have opened a part of the evidence, it will be a question whether any more will be laid before you; if no more is laid before you, you must take the evidence which will be before you, and consider whether the goods being sent to these persons engaged in the slave trade, with the concealment, is not evidence of the intention of sending them. If the other evidence is laid before you, you will take the whole, under the direction of the learned Judge, into your consideration.

Gentlemen, there is one observation I ought to make before I close. My learned friend has thrown out the question, Who is the prosecutor in this case? It is quite immaterial, in point of law, who is the prosecutor; the question is, What is the evidence against the defendant? But you will not for a moment understand that the prosecutor wishes to conceal himself or his name. The name of the prosecutor is the attorney in the case, Sir George Stephen; he is the son of a gentleman whose name has been known as long as any attempt has existed in this country, as one deeply interested in the attempt to overthrow the slave trade, and cause its suppression; and he is the nephew of a man to whom undoubtedly I should say is due very great praise, it would be hardly too much to say the greatest praise, in removing the stain which rested upon this country—I mean Mr. Wilberforce. Sir George Stephen has no fear or apprehension upon the subject; he has felt it to be necessary and proper in his judgment, and the judgment of those with whom he is connected and with whom he has acted, that some person should stand forward to bear all the responsibility which rested upon any individual in bringing a case of this kind before you for your consideration. He has no objection to bear that responsibility; he has performed his duty in this respect. But that is quite immaterial to the question in this case, which is simply this,—Is the prisoner at the bar guilty or not guilty of that with which he is charged in this indictment? And I mention the name of Sir George Stephen, because he does not wish to shrink from the responsibility which rests upon him. You will attend only to the evidence, and upon the evidence you will give your verdict of guilty or not guilty. I am sure, if the prisoner is innocent, you will give that verdict with great satisfaction; but if he is guilty, you will not shrink from that important duty which rests upon you in giving a verdict—a verdict of the utmost importance to those human beings for whose protection you are now sitting. If he is innocent, no feeling of that description will influence you in giving a feather’s weight to the prosecution; on the other hand, if you feel that he is guilty, you will not shrink from saying so by your verdict.

EVIDENCE FOR THE PROSECUTION.

Captain Henry Worsley Hill, R.N. sworn. Examined by Mr. Serjeant Talfourd.

Q. You were formerly the commander of a ship called the Saracen?—A. Yes, I commanded her on the coast of Africa.

From what time to what time? Did you command the Saracen on the 1st of October, 1837?—I commanded her from October, 1837, to June, 1841.

What was the general nature of the service you were engaged upon?—The protection of British commerce, and the prevention of the slave trade.

Mr. Justice Maule. What was the Saracen?—She was a man-of-war, a brig.

A king’s ship?—Yes.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Did you become acquainted in the course of that service with the river Gallinas?—Yes.

How far is the river Gallinas from Sierra Leone?—For large vessels navigating it is necessary to go round a large tract of shoals, which makes it 150 or 200 miles; but there is a nearer navigation for smaller ships and boats. It depends so much upon the draught of water of the vessel you are navigating.

Is there any town on the river Gallinas?—On the river Gallinas there are several small towns.

What is the nature of the population there?—The population of the Gallinas consists of the inhabitants, negroes, they are all blacks; and the European population are chiefly Spaniards.

Mr. Kelly. The European population is principally Spaniards?—Yes, chiefly so.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. At the time you first became acquainted with the river Gallinas, were there any barracoons there?—Yes.

How many barracoons were there?—

Mr. Justice Maule. When was this he is now speaking of?

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. When was it?—The river Gallinas was part of my station in December, 1838; in fact, it was upon my station from December, 1838, till May, 1841; and I was constantly at Gallinas during that period.

Mr. Justice Maule. When were you first at Gallinas?—I called there before that in 1837, but I did not land there.

Did you see if there were any barracoons there then?—I did not land there. I know there were barracoons from hearsay; and I know the slave trade was extensively carried on.

Mr. Kelly. Do not tell us any thing you know from hearsay.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. You did afterwards land there, and became acquainted with the establishments there?—

Mr. Justice Maule. Is it merely to ascertain the fact of the existence of barracoons there?

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. No; they are destroyed now. They were destroyed by Captain Denman?—It was in consequence of arrangements made by Captain Denman. I was there when they were destroyed. I was there, and saw the whole slave establishments; there were six or seven of them.

When you first knew the Gallinas, were there slave establishments there?—I was merely cruizing off there to prevent the slave trade. The slave vessels took their cargoes from there, as I have every reason to believe.

Mr. Kelly. Have the kindness to confine yourself to what you know.

Mr. Justice Maule. You have been ashore there?—Yes.

What did you see there?—The first time I was on shore there and saw the barracoons was in November, 1840—

Mr. Kelly. There is no doubt of the fact of barracoons being there, and that they were destroyed.

—I was cruizing off there for two years for the purpose of preventing the slave trade; but I did not land to see them till 1840, and that was in November.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. At that time how many slave establishments were there at the Gallinas?—

Mr. Kelly. Do you know it of your own knowledge? Let Captain Hill distinguish between what he saw and knows to be the fact, and what he has heard.

Mr. Justice Maule. Barracoons seem now to be changed into slave establishments. Do you make any point of that?

Mr. Kelly. No, my Lord, I do not; it means the same thing.

Mr. Justice Maule. Are these barracoons for the slaves?

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Are the barracoons used for the purpose of warehousing the slaves?—They are for confining the slaves before they are exported.

Is this a plan made by yourself? (handing a paper to the Witness.)—Yes, it is made from my recollection of the river; it has never been surveyed. I made it from my recollection of the spot.

Does it give a representation of the river Gallinas and the barracoons upon it?—Yes it does, to the best of my ability. Those places which are marked black are where the barracoons were, which were destroyed in consequence of Captain Denman and myself going into them and giving directions for that purpose.

It represents them as they were before they were destroyed?—Yes.

Just mention them one after the other, and whose they were.

Mr. Kelly. I do not know how my learned friend intends to show that this is evidence.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. That will be for your cross-examination.

Mr. Kelly. I do not wish to charge my Lord’s notes with a quantity of matter that is not evidence. How can this gentleman tell these were the properties of particular parties? How can he say, upon his oath, that these are the properties of particular parties?

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Do you know who the parties were who were the owners of these barracoons?—The first place we landed at was Angeline’s, called Dombocoro; to the best of my belief it was his. I may go into a house and not know who is the owner; but that it was Angeline’s I understood from himself.

Mr. Kelly. This I must object to. If my learned friend thinks it necessary to address any question to Captain Hill as to facts that took place, from which your Lordship or the Jury may infer that any particular individual was the owner of any particular place or places, I cannot object to it; but when it is sought to be given in evidence against Mr. Zulueta, who was never at the place in his life, and never saw any of the parties, and something is to be built upon the reputation that existed as to the property of these individuals, I submit to your Lordships that direct evidence should be given of the fact; and I must object to the question, what was generally understood as to the ownership of these barracoons. Any thing he saw, from which an inference may fairly be drawn, I cannot object to; but I do object to any thing he prefaces, by saying, “I understood so and so.”

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. The mode of ascertaining who is the owner of any establishment, is by going there and seeing who is taken to be the owner.

Mr. Justice Wightman. I understood that Captain Hill had gone in there and seen some person there?—No; I learned at Dombocoro.

Mr. Kelly. That is not evidence.

Mr. Justice Maule. If you wish to show that A. B. is the owner of any house, you must show it by specific evidence; but there is no point here as to parties being the owners. One is called Señor Antonio’s, and another by another name. I do not see why any dispute should be made about it. If you wish to charge the prisoner with the specific fact of a particular party being the owner of a building or piece of ground, it must be proved by legitimate evidence.

Mr. Kelly. I wish to deal fairly by my learned friend, and to save time, which is the object of us all. My learned friend, in his opening speech, stated that certain parties were notorious slave dealers: now what may be notorious to any gentleman who hears all the tittle-tattle that may be spoken at the place is one thing, but what was known to the prisoner is another thing. The notoriety there is not evidence against the prisoner. The question will arise, if the fact is proved, whether it was known to Mr. Zulueta in this country? Let us have the fact there, and not what was known there?

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. How many barracoons were there at this time?—I had better explain that the barracoons are extensive buildings of themselves; and the buildings, necessary for the parties to live in to attend upon the slaves, are numerous. At Dombocoro there may be fifty or sixty houses, storehouses, and places for the people to live in who look after the slaves. Tiendo covers a very large space of ground.

Mr. Justice Maule. I may take it that each barracoon is a slave building, and that there are storehouses for stores?—Yes; the barracoons themselves are like large barns to keep the slaves in, and they contain five or six hundred slaves sometimes.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Are there any other buildings but the barracoons and the houses for the attendants?—At Dombocoro there are none other. At Tiendo there is a town just adjoining it: the slave establishment is towards the point. At Jaiera I saw nothing but the slave establishments. At Carmatiendo there is a large slave establishment, and the reputed owner is—

Mr. Kelly. Never mind the reputed owner.

Mr. Justice Maule. Any body might prove that an island was called Juan Fernandez without proving that he was seized of it in fee.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Is there any thing but a slave establishment there?—No, I saw nothing else: and the same at Camasuro; and I saw the same at Paisley: and at one or two of the islands there were some small slave establishments likewise.

Do you know of any other trade or commerce which is carried on there but the slave trade?—None other; and I think I was in the whole of the slave establishments I have mentioned. I went over the whole of them before they were destroyed, and saw no signs of any trade but the slave trade.

Having been cruizing off there for some years, should you have known it if there had been any other commerce carried on but the slave trade?—

Mr. Kelly. I object to that question, it is asking the witness to come to a conclusion, from being on the coast of Africa, that he had become acquainted with the whole of the commerce. I am quite sure that the last answer of the witness cannot be correct.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. I submit to your Lordships that my learned friend cannot be correct in stating that the witness is not correct.

Mr. Kelly. I will prove it.

Mr. Justice Maule. I have taken down the substance of what he has been saying, and it is this: He mentions five or six places where there are barracoons with the appurtenances; and “except at one or two, where native towns are near, I saw no sign of any other trade but the slave trade.” You were cruizing off there to watch the trade?—Yes.

Did you know of any trade but the slave trade?—No, the native king told me there was no other.

Mr. Clarkson. Never mind what the native king told you.

Mr. Justice Maule. We cannot even take the word of a king, so extreme is our repugnance to hearsay evidence.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Do you know a merchant there of the name of Ignatio Rolo?—He was on board the Saracen for some two or three days. Captain Denman had taken a slave vessel—

Do you know of your own knowledge what his occupation was there?—I never saw him buy a slave, nor did I see him sell one; but as far as knowing the course of trade, I should say he was a slave dealer, and solely and only a slave dealer; but I never saw him buy one. Jaiera was his slave establishment, and there was no sign of any thing but the slave trade.

And there he resided himself?—I never saw him there. I understood from him that he did: in the first instance he denied it.

Mr. Kelly. Do not tell us what he denied. I must once for all take his Lordship’s opinion whether this course of evidence can be persisted in. I am extremely sorry to consume time, but it is essentially necessary for the interests of justice that the prisoner should be protected from answers of this kind. It seems that Captain Hill thinks it his duty, instead of answering the question put to him, to state any thing that occurs to his own mind.

Mr. Justice Maule. I cannot say that he seems to give answers quite connected with the subject; but he is not so well acquainted with what we exclude in evidence as you are.

Mr. Kelly. I only wish once for all, if he would be good enough to understand, that he is not to repeat what he heard; what he saw no one can object to; what conversations he had with other people can form no ground of charge against a party not upon the spot. —I was speaking of a conversation I had with Ignatio Rolo himself, he acknowledged to me he lived there.

Mr. Justice Maule. We cannot admit that.

Mr. Kelly. I am not blaming Captain Hill, but I am only reminding him of his duty as a witness not to repeat whatever he heard.

Mr. Justice Maule. He has not stated whatever he learnt from any party: if you push that to the extreme point, how is a witness to be allowed to say that he was examined in Court by Mr. Kelly?

Mr. Kelly. I do not push it to that extent.

Mr. Justice Maule. Did you see Ignatio Rolo in any occupation—No; the way I saw him was this, Captain Denman had seized a slave vessel, and he had sent it up in charge of a prize officer and crew.

Mr. Kelly. If I cannot induce Captain Hill to confine himself merely to answering the questions, I must object. It is singular that when your Lordship puts a question, and Captain Hill has answered it, he goes on to enter into a story about Captain Denman and a slave vessel. I object to that; we cannot go into evidence of what Captain Denman had done about a slave vessel; all he knows is mere rumour.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. When was it you first saw Ignatio Rolo?—I myself landed there in the month of November, a day or two previous to our going into the river Gallinas, in order to make some arrangements with the chiefs, owing to the interruption that had been offered to us.

Was there any establishment there called by his name?—None; but Jaiera was the name of the establishment.

Did you ever see him there?—No.

Mr. Justice Maule. You saw him somewhere?—Yes, he came on board a slave vessel, and was there detained by the prize officer.

What is Ignatio Rolo?—To the best of my belief he is a Spaniard; an European, to the best of my knowledge. I never saw him in Spain.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Do you know a person named Don José Alvarez there?—I was not personally acquainted with him; I only knew him by name.

Did you know a merchant named Don Ximenes?—I saw him at Sierra Leone; and I learnt from him—

Mr. Justice Maule. Are you going to prove that the river Gallinas was a slave trading place?

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Yes, my Lord.

Mr. Justice Maule. There is enough evidence of that.

Foreman of the Jury. We are quite satisfied of that.

Mr. Kelly. There is no doubt that where there are barracoons, there is slave dealing; but whether these individuals were slave dealers I do not know. Let that be proved in evidence.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Did you fall in at any time with a vessel called the Golupchik?—Yes.

When was that?—I fell in with her several times, and chased her; and ultimately captured her in April 1839.

Under what colours was the Golupchik then sailing?—Russian.

Who was it had the command of her?—It was Thomas Bernardos.

Of what nation was the crew composed?—They were Spaniards principally; there might be a few Portuguese.

Was there any thing in the fitting up of that vessel, which enabled you to judge in what trade she was engaged?—She was fitted up for the slave trade.

Have you any doubt of it?—No.

What was the nature of the fittings up?—I have the report of the Mixed Commission Court, which would be the best evidence.

Mr. Kelly. No, it would not.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. What were the fittings up, which to your eyes indicated her as a slave vessel?—She had more water-casks than are necessary for an ordinary trading vessel.

What is the size of them?—They are large vessels; they are called leagers.

They are called leagers?—Yes; but any vessel may have a leager; but she had a larger quantity than any ordinary merchant vessel, and that is one of the articles prohibited to be used by our treaties with foreign powers.

What else did you observe?—She had a sliding caboose to hold a very large copper; that is another of the prohibited articles. She had also gratings covered over with temporary planks; and a few other trifling things, quite sufficient, according to our treaties with foreign powers, to authorise me to seize her as a vessel fully equipped for the slave trade, had she been under the Spanish flag. I seized her, believing her to be a Spanish vessel, though under the Russian flag.

The crew were principally Spaniards?—Yes; and it did not appear that she had been in a Russian port for two years.

What did you do with the vessel?—I sent her to Sierra Leone, and tried to prosecute her in the Mixed Commission Court as a Spanish vessel; but she was not received into that Court, being under the Russian flag, and with Russian papers. I afterwards determined to send her to England, that the Court of Admiralty might dispose of her, as I felt satisfied she could not be a Russian vessel.

Mr. Justice Maule. You sent her to England to be condemned?—Yes, and before that I obtained from Bernardos—

Mr. Kelly. You are not asked what you obtained from Bernardos.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Did Bernardos go in her?—Yes. I tried her a second time in the Mixed Commission Court.

We cannot enter into that. Did you afterwards see the same vessel again under another name?—Yes.

When was that?—In February 1841.

Where was she at the time?—Close to the Gallinas; at anchor at Gallinas: she anchored as I went on board.

Mr. Justice Maule. Under what name?—The Augusta; and under the English flag.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Are you quite certain it was the same vessel you had captured before?—Yes, quite certain.

Who did you find in command of the vessel at that time?—A man of the name of Jennings.

In consequence of any suspicions you entertained, did you make application to him for the ship’s papers?—I asked for the ship’s papers directly I went on board—

Mr. Kelly. I must object to any thing that passed between the witness and Captain Jennings; the fact I do not object to.

Mr. Justice Maule. You do not object to the fact of his asking for and getting the papers?

Mr. Kelly. No; but it must be the fact alone. I never interpose when the Captain states facts.

Mr. Justice Maule. Did you ask for the ship’s papers?—

Mr. Kelly. To that I have no objection, and I do not object to the question of my learned friend; but it is the only way I have of warning Captain Hill not to give us other people’s statements.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Did you obtain the papers in the first instance?—Yes; on going on board it is my duty to demand them, and I received them on board.

Were there any other papers subsequently given to you by Jennings, or did you receive them all at once?—I received other papers afterwards; I received the ship’s papers in the first instance.

Mr. Kelly. Confine your answer to the question.

—It is necessary to explain.

Mr. Kelly. No, not at all.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. You received some papers in the first instance?—Yes; the vessel’s papers on demand. I had demanded them, and on being refused by Captain Jennings to answer a question which he was bound to answer to the commander of a British man-of-war, I insisted upon its being answered, and said I should detain the vessel till it was; and that question was to whom did the vessel—

Mr. Kelly. Here I must interpose; and unless Captain Hill is to be the sole judge of what is to be admissible evidence, I ask your Lordship to interpose, or to hear me and dispose of my objection. I cannot complain of my learned friend; he puts nothing but perfectly regular questions. Captain Jennings is not my client here.

Mr. Justice Maule. You gave back the ship’s papers to Captain Jennings, and afterwards you insisted upon having these papers, or having some more?—I insisted upon having the question answered to whom the vessel was consigned.

Mr. Serjeant Bompas. He has a right to ask that; that is a question which the captain is bound to demand of him, to whom he is consigned.

Mr. Kelly. I am quite well aware that in your Lordship’s hands I am quite safe; and if Captain Jennings had committed a murder on this occasion, it would not upon your Lordship’s minds produce any influence; but it is impossible to tell, knowing that Jennings was the captain of the vessel, and that the prisoner at the bar may have had some hand in the fitting it up, what influence it may have upon the minds of the Jury if we are to have conversations or recognitions, supposing there to have been any made by Captain Jennings; and all this done in the absence of Mr. Zulueta, who had no knowledge of it or control over it. If I at all understand it to be your Lordship’s impression, that any thing said or done by Captain Jennings is evidence, having made the objection I have nothing further to submit to your Lordships; but I do conceive, that nothing done by Captain Jennings long after the vessel sailed, and long after the offence, if any, was committed, is admissible. I do feel it my duty to ask, whether evidence is to be received of what was said and done by Captain Jennings months after the departure of the vessel from this country?

Mr. Justice Maule. I do not entertain either of those two opinions. You do not put two cases which exhaust all other possible cases, but you say if I am of opinion that every thing said and done by Captain Jennings is evidence, you say no more; you say nothing. But I do not think that the thing is evidence, because Captain Jennings says it; nor do I think we can say, that nothing that Captain Jennings said can be evidence in the course of the trial. But with respect to what we have to decide, it is not whether there is such a large and general rule as that, but whether this question falls within any rule that excludes it. I think it does; I think what Captain Jennings said on that occasion is not admissible in evidence. If Captain Hill demands some other papers from him, that fact may be given in evidence.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Did you afterwards receive some other papers from Captain Jennings on board?—Yes, I received a packet.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. Is the clerk here from the Court of Admiralty?

Mr. Kelly. I take for granted that the papers to be produced in Court are the papers given to this gentleman by Captain Jennings.

Mr. Serjeant Bompas. Yes, they have been produced before; we shall want them in a moment.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. What steps did you take upon receiving these papers?—I took the papers on board my own vessel on purpose to read them. It was towards the close of the evening I received them, and I sent an order on board the Saracen that an officer and a certain number of men should be sent to me, and I entrusted that officer with the charge of the vessel.

Did you, in consequence of the view you took afterwards, detain the vessel?—Yes, I detained the vessel.

She was afterwards taken, I believe, to Sierra Leone?—Yes.

Did you prosecute her there?—

Mr. Kelly. I must object to all this—

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. I thought that that might be taken as a fact; the evidence of Mr. Zulueta before the Committee is in evidence; and there it is stated that the vessel was condemned, because Captain Jennings had no funds to defend her: I thought I might take that as a fact.

Mr. Kelly. No, nothing of the kind; I object to any evidence of the proceedings in Sierra Leone respecting this vessel. Mr. Zulueta, as it appears by what is in evidence, namely, his own statement before the Committee of the House of Commons, was the agent of Messrs. Martinez & Co. for the purchase of this vessel, and afterwards the shipment of the goods, but was no party at all to any proceeding, judicial or otherwise, which took place in Sierra Leone. Now judicial proceedings, in which there is a judicial sentence, are no doubt evidence, and may be very important evidence against the parties to those proceedings; but I apprehend as that was a proceeding to which Mr. Zulueta was no party, they are not evidence against him here.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. We need not argue that; I only put the question in order to trace the vessel.

Mr. Justice Maule. At present he says the vessel was sent to Sierra Leone; that was all, I believe?

Mr. Kelly. No, he was going on to talk about the proceedings in Sierra Leone.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. There were some proceedings there?—She was condemned in the Vice-Admiralty Court there.

Was she sent to England afterwards?—I have seen nothing of her since.

Cross-examined by Mr. Kelly.

Though you were for some two or three years cruizing upon the coast of Africa, it was not till November 1840 you landed at Gallinas—I landed upon the island there for half an hour previous to that time.

With that exception, I believe you had not landed there before that?—No.

You have spoken of slave establishments; are there not villages or towns, whatever names are given to them up the river?—It is necessary to mention—

You will greatly oblige me if you will answer the question. Is it the fact, that there are several towns and villages up the river?—It is necessary for me to explain. If you know nothing of the river Gallinas that question may imply more than I can answer. The river Gallinas extends some distance into the interior as I believe: I have been up it ten or a dozen miles, and I know that there is the native village of Mera, another of Tardia, and another of Tinda.

That is exactly what I am asking.

Mr. Justice Maule. It is a very harmless statement.

Mr. Kelly. I was going to ask him how far he had gone up the river?—At least twelve miles.

As far as you have gone, there were towns?—There were villages.

Was the river navigable further up?—Do you mean further than I went?

Yes.—I cannot say; I should think not from the appearance of it, except by canoes.

It is navigable for canoes, so that the population of the place can pass further up?—I cannot say.

Did you ever see canoes higher up?—I could not see them.

If you were ten miles up, you can say if you saw canoes beyond that distance?—I did not see any. I think from the appearance of the river as high as I went, it is navigable for canoes; but I never saw any there.

You were upon this coast for the protection of British commerce and the prevention of the slave trade?—Yes.

Did not that British commerce consist among other things of the exportation of the merchandise of Britain to various places on the coast of Africa?—Certainly.

Do you not know that British merchandises, sometimes in British vessels, and at other times in other vessels, were exported to a very considerable extent to various parts of the coast of Africa?—Certainly, I do.

Now with respect to the Gallinas, do I understand you to say that no British merchandises were exported there, except for the purposes of the slave trade?—Any British merchandise exported there from the Gallinas?

No, I said imported into the Gallinas.—That question was not asked me.

Do you not know that British merchandise to a considerable extent was from time to time exported to the Gallinas in a lawful manner?—I have known English vessels arrive at the Gallinas and part with a little of their cargo; but I never knew an instance before the Augusta of a vessel arriving at the Gallinas consigned to deliver her cargo there.

I ask you, whether you have known of various British vessels, containing British merchandise, arriving there for a lawful purpose?—I have known one or two English vessels dispose of a part of their cargoes there; but I doubt its being for a legal purpose, because I am satisfied there is no export from the Gallinas but slaves, and therefore I do not think it could be lawful.

You say you have known them land part of their cargo there?—I have known them sell part of it.

And you gave as your reason for doubting whether it was for a lawful purpose, because you are not aware of any merchandise that is exported from there in return?—I said I should doubt whether it was lawful, because there was no produce in exchange for it.

Have you never known an instance of ivory and palm-oil being exported from Gallinas?—Never, and I believe it never was during the time I was there.

I am asking your experience; I will come to your belief presently. You say you doubt whether British merchandise has ever been landed there for lawful purposes; is that so?—I have given my reason for doubting it.

Is it so, that you doubt whether it was ever landed for any purpose?—I am speaking of the time I was there.

I am asking you about your own experience; of course that must be while you were there. You say you have never known any British produce landed that you did not doubt the legality of its purpose; is that so?—Yes; because there was no produce to be lawful given in exchange; no produce that I met with.

Allow me to ask you, was there any thing illegal in the landing of British produce for the use of the native chiefs, or the inhabitants of those towns and villages you speak of?—You are asking me my opinion?

Yes; you say you doubt the legality of it?—

Mr. Justice Maule. That is a question of law.

—That is a question I cannot presume to answer.

Mr. Kelly. As the gentleman has given me his doubts, I wished to know the reason for them.—I have seized this vessel, because I conceived her freight to be illegal.

Do you remember a vessel called the Gil Blas?—I have seen her.

Did she not land goods at the Gallinas?—Yes: if she is the vessel I mean, she was commanded by a man of the name of Serjeant, and he landed some goods there; he gave me to understand so.

Was the Gil Blas there at the time your vessel was there?—Yes.

And you did not think it necessary to seize the Gil Blas?—No.

Do you know for whom any goods were landed?—I am only speaking from what I understood from him when I learned it. I do not know to whom he delivered them; but he gave me to understand he sold them to Pedro Blanco; but I was not present. I am only speaking to my belief.

Did this man, about that time, make you any present?—Serjeant brought out from Pedro Blanco a dozen fowls and a sheep for me, which I was very glad of. I had never seen Pedro Blanco in my life. I had had no fresh provisions for some time, and I was very glad to accept the fowls and the sheep, which he told me had come from Marseilles in a vessel which had taken some slaves. The sheep I gave to the Judge of the Mixed Commission Court.

How long was the Gil Blas off there?—I do not know, perhaps a day.

Tell me the name of any other vessel that was out there landing goods, which you did not seize?—I do not remember any.

Were you there at the time the Star was there?—I do not remember the name. I do not recollect seeing her. I am sorry I have not the boarding-book here, or I could tell you.

Do you remember the Laburnum?—No.

The Milford?—No.

Do you not know that the Milford landed a large quantity of goods at the Gallinas?—Not to my knowledge.

Or the Sublime?—Not that I know of.

How long were you so near to the river Gallinas, or within it, as to be able to know from your own observation what quantity of goods, if any, was landed?—My cruizing ground was extensive. I was a good deal at the Gallinas, because it was a notorious slave place, but I had many other places to visit.

You are not answering my question. I ask you how long you were within the river, or within sight of it, so as to know what quantity of goods were landed?—It was part of my cruizing ground; sometimes I would be there for two or three days at anchor, then I would be away a month or two, and then back again for two or three months; sometimes I was continually there.

Can you give me any idea of the population upon these banks of the river with which you were acquainted? You say you went twelve miles up; what was the extent of the whole population?—I can only answer from guess. I should say, at Tiendo, the population might be eight or nine hundred; at Tardia, one or two hundred; at Mena, seven or eight hundred. There is another native town, which I do not know the name of, further down the river; but it is not thickly populated by any means.

You say you were stationed upon the coast of Africa for the protection of British commerce: as far as your experience goes, was not that British commerce to the coast of Africa exceedingly serviceable to the natives?—That depends upon what way it is employed. If it is to be employed in the slave trade, it is doubtful whether it is serviceable.

I am not asking you a speculative question of that description: you were there for the protection of British commerce, and it is a plain question. I ask you, in your judgment, founded upon your experience, was British commerce serviceable to the natives upon the coast of Africa?—Are you taking the whole of the coast of Africa, or confining it to the Gallinas?

I am confining it to the parts you are acquainted with?—That was all the coast of Africa, from Portendique round to Madagascar; if you are taking in all that, undoubtedly British commerce must be a great benefit to Africa.

Let me ask you another question, and that I may not take you by surprise, I may tell you that I am taking it from the book in which you gave your evidence; I ask you, from your experience upon the coast of Africa, whether, in many places, a lawful trade was not carried on to a considerable extent by some persons, who likewise carried on the slave trade?—By the same persons, or in the same places?

I say the same persons?—I have not seen the persons trading, and I cannot tell.

Though you have not seen them trading, you may be able to answer the question?—I do not hesitate in telling you, that in many places on the coast of Africa, the same trade was carried on both for slaves and in exchange for the produce of the country, but at the Gallinas I do not think there was any trade of that kind.

In many places, the same trade was carried on in the lawful trade and the slave trade by the same persons?—Yes; lam speaking of hearsay; but I am as confident it was not so at the Gallinas, as one can be confident from having been at the place.

The experience which leads you to think it has not been so at Gallinas is from your own knowledge, being on the spot?—I have already stated I have been a great deal there, and during that time I saw no other trade, nor the sign of any other trade, than the slave trade.

We are here dealing with a gentleman who was never at the Gallinas, and I am asking you a question founded upon your experience: you say you believe no lawful trade was carried on there, as there was at other places; I ask you, whether the knowledge you have acquired, which leads you to suppose that European trade was carried on, was derived from your own knowledge of the persons?—Yes.

Allow me to ask you, are the officers of the navy in your own distinguished situation entitled to share in the value of the vessels which they seize, and which happily for them are condemned?—Yes they are; certainly.

To what extent: suppose you were to seize a vessel and cargo of the value of 10,000l., what would be your own share?—I should imagine the vessel in question—

I want to know, if you seize a ship and cargo of the value of 10,000l., 5000l. each, what is the share, if that vessel is condemned for being engaged in the slave trade, that the commanding officer seizing it is entitled to?—You must tell me the port she is to be condemned in; it makes a considerable difference; if it is in the Mixed Commission Court, that makes a very considerable difference, or if it is in the Vice-Admiralty Court.

Take it as being condemned in the Vice-Admiralty Court?—Half the proceeds go to the Crown, and the other half to the captors, after all the expenses are paid.

You say half goes to the Crown, if condemned in the Vice-Admiralty Court?—This vessel—

I am not asking you about any particular vessel.—It depends upon the different Acts under which she is condemned.

Forget for a moment this vessel the Augusta, if you can, and suppose a vessel under British colours is seized in the African seas by an officer in your own situation, and is condemned in the English Vice-Admiralty Court for a breach of the English law, how is the value divided?—Half goes to the Crown, and the other half, after the expenses are paid, is divided amongst the captors; the admiral gets one-sixteenth, and the captain one-eighth of the remainder.

Suppose she is condemned by the Mixed Commission Court?—I believe it is nearly the same in the Mixed Commission Court; but half goes to the nation under whose flag she is sailing.

The Mixed Commission Court is a court composed of commissioners of two nations, or various nations, and who have to determine the cases of foreign vessels not British, Spanish for instance?—Yes; I think that is the division after the nation under whose flag she is sailing; but under the Act that was passed authorising us to seize Portuguese vessels, and to prosecute them in the Vice-Admiralty Court, I do not know how the proceeds were divided.

It is a Mixed Commission Court which decides upon the Spanish or Portuguese ships; and the British Vice-Admiralty Court decide upon a vessel under the British flag?—Yes.

Are not Spanish vessels prohibited from being navigated by British captains? Did you ever see a vessel under the Spanish flag navigated by a British captain?—I never recollect seeing one.

Now, as to the vessel in question, the Augusta; you say when she bore the name of the Gollupchik, she was in every respect fitted up for the slave trade?—Not in every respect; I do not think she had a slave-deck laid.

I correct myself: she was in many respects fitted up for the slave trade?—Yes.

And that led you to seize her?—Yes.

When she came to England, and was claimed by the Russian authorities, do you know whether they succeeded in their claim?—I know nothing of her; I sent her to England.

You do not know whether she remained in English hands, or was delivered up to the Russian government?—I was on the coast of Africa at the time. I have received nothing from the Vice-Admiralty Court in respect of her.

To a certain extent, to the extent to which you have described her, she was, when you seized her under Russian colours, fitted up for a slave vessel?—Yes.

When she bore her name of the Augusta, and was in the hands of Captain Jennings, was she then fitted up for the slave trade?—Not in my opinion; and I did not seize her for that, but for her freight: at least I saw nothing; I do not know what might be under her cargo.

I did not ask you what you did not see; it is the very thing I have been objecting to a hundred times over: I ask you what you did see. You have said two or three times that you were three years upon this coast; to what extent of coast did your cruizing extend?—From December, 1838, until April or May, 1841. The Gallinas was within my station in the first instance. I had charge of the station under Admiral Palmer. Then there was another officer appointed.

I do not wish to go into the whole history of your service; but have the goodness to confine yourself to the question: over what extent of coast did the whole performance of your duties extend?—It depended upon the nature of the orders I received.

Was it altogether 1,000 miles of coast or 500 miles, from 1837, when you began, till 1841? Was the whole extent of coast, over which at various periods your service extended, 1,000 miles?—From October, 1837, till December, 1838, I was on the coast at different periods from Sierra Leone as far as Madagascar: but from December, 1838, until I left the coast of Africa in June, 1841, I was confined to the coast between Cape Palmas, Portendique, and the Cape de Verd Islands: from December, 1838, till June, 1841—

What extent of coast is that?—

Mr. Justice Maule. How many degrees of latitude is it?

—It is about 1,000 miles I should say.

Mr. Kelly. During that period you acquired some experience, I presume, in the nature of the British commerce carried on upon the coast of Africa: let me ask you, whether the sort of articles of British commerce, exported to Africa during that period, were not gunpowder, muskets, tobacco, brandy, and cotton goods?—Oh, yes.

And iron articles?—I do not think it is possible to distinguish the articles intended for the slave trade, from the articles intended for legal commerce.

Mr. Justice Maule. The articles sent in both instances are welcome to the African consumers?—Yes; I am speaking of the West Coast of Africa; I cannot speak to other parts of the coast; I do not think it is possible to distinguish them.

What people want in Africa is determined by that which they receive, and whether they pay for it in coin or in produce only, the same thing would be welcome?—Yes.

Mr. Justice Maule. Just as if you were to ask, why do people give bank notes in England for guineas or sovereigns: it is just what they want.

Mr. Kelly. With regard to these articles you have mentioned, when exported to various parts of Africa, is the return made sometimes in doubloons or money, and sometimes in ivory, dye-wood, palm oil, and other commodities produced there?—If you will let me answer the question in my own way, I can do it more satisfactorily. Where goods are landed, and doubloons are obtained in exchange, the doubloons come from the Spaniards, and I never knew a Spaniard engaged in any trade upon the coast of Africa but the slave trade: when you get produce in exchange, it is more likely you get that from the natives.

Do you mean to say, that the Spaniards who trade upon the coast of Africa do not give produce for the merchandise that goes there; I am not speaking merely of the Gallinas?—I think I know of but one, and I do not know whether he is a Spaniard or not. I can mention his name, it is Carrote; I think he exported palm oil as well as slaves; but he told me he was an agent to Pedro Blanco.

Do not tell us what he told you: what I ask you is, whether a return is not sometimes made in ivory and palm oil, and dye-woods?—The question calls for an answer which I cannot give in a satisfactory manner.

You do not do justice to your own understanding.—I wish to give you every information.

You never saw any of the house of Zulueta & Co. in the course of your travels on the coast of Africa?—Never to the best of my recollection.

Do you know any of them?—No: I saw Mr. Zulueta before the Committee of the Privy Council for the first time.

Re-examined by Mr. Serjeant Talfourd.

You have been asked if you saw any slave fittings when you seized the Augusta; did you take up any of the cargo?—No, I did not; I went into the hold.

Do you know whether the slave fittings were what could be taken to pieces and stowed away?—The hatches were grated when I first seized her. When I seized her the second time she had new hatches and no gratings at all. I saw nothing to induce me to believe she had slave fittings when I seized her as the Augusta, though I had heard that.

Mr. Justice Maule. The learned Serjeant is asking you not what you heard, but what you looked for; you searched to see if there were slave fittings?—Yes; so far as going down into the hold. I did not disturb the cargo; I do not know what was in her.

You did not find any leagers?—No.

Are you able to say whether she was or was not fitted for the slave trade?—If she was equipped for it I should have seized her at once; but she was not.

You saw enough of her to see that she was not equipped for the slave trade?—Certainly; she had not slave equipments, leagers, hatches with open gratings, or irons, or coppers, or any of those things.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. How long were you on board the vessel?—The first day a couple of hours, and the next day about the same time. I was on board her three or four times.

Can they get the equipments after they come into port when they discharge their cargo?—Yes, in many places they can; I can give you an instance of an American vessel—

Can the fittings be obtained there after the discharge of a vessel like the Augusta?—

Mr. Kelly. Where?

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. At the place where the cargo is discharged.—The only way in which I can answer that question is this; if an agent at Gallinas expects a slave vessel to come out without equipments, he may take care to procure them from other vessels, and may have them perfectly ready: I can give an instance of that—

Mr. Kelly. Never mind that.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. How long would it take to put on board slave equipments in a vessel of the size of the Augusta?—A very short time: they may send out the water-casks filled with water in two or three canoes; and if they do not choose to lay down a slave deck, they put mats upon the casks, and it is done in a very short time. They may embark 500 slaves in a couple of hours or upwards and be off.

Foreman of the Jury. One of my brother jurors wishes to ask this question of the witness through your Lordship: when he went on board the Augusta, whether he found any thing on board her to warrant her being supposed to be fitted out as a slave vessel?

Mr. Justice Maule. He says he did not; that has been pursued for some time; and now in answer to questions put to him, the gentleman was saying, though she was not fitted out in that way, that her goods might be landed, and slaves might be put on board, in a few hours.—I can say—

Mr. Kelly. I object to these speeches: I object to this gentleman, who thinks because he has seized this vessel that if any thing falls from the Jury, or from one of her Majesty’s judges, that he may begin making a speech. There has been a great deal said that is not evidence: that every body must feel; but it is impossible to stop him, although a gentleman as respectable as himself is under trial.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. You have been asked about the share which the captain has in the capture of a vessel of this description; do you accurately know what share you would have under the circumstances?—Yes; what I have stated is the share: half the proceeds go to the Crown, and after the admiral has had his share, the remaining half is divided.

What would be your share of this vessel the Augusta?—I believe the proceeds amounted to about 3,800l.; one-half goes to the Crown, and there are the expenses of the appeal to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council, which are not paid.

Have you got any thing?—No, not a sixpence.

Do the expenses swallow up?—

Mr. Justice Maule. 1,900l. is the half; the captain gets one-eighth of fifteen-sixteenths?—There are several hundred pounds to come out of it for the Privy Council appeal, that has not been paid yet.—

Mr. Clarkson. You must not say any thing, unless you are asked a question.

Mr. Kelly. I shall let him talk on till he is tired after what I have said.

Mr. John Brown sworn. Examined by Mr. Payne.

Do you come from the Admiralty Court?—Yes.

Do you produce any documents?—Yes, I do.

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd. The first document we want is the letter of the 20th August, 1840, from Zulueta & Co. to Captain Jennings?—Will you allow me to hand you a schedule of the different documents; they are numbered according to that. (The Witness handed in the same.)

Mr. Payne. Nos. 14 and 17 are what we want. (The Witness handed in two papers; one being a letter, dated 20th August, 1840.)

Mr. Serjeant Talfourd (to Captain Hill.) Look at this letter and see if it is one of the letters you found on board the Augusta? (handing the same to the Witness.)—Yes, that is one; there is my handwriting upon it.