TESTIMONY OF EVA L. GRANT (continued 2)

Mr. Griffin. Jim Underwood? Ike Pappas?

Mrs. Grant. No. I think his name is something like Denson or Jensen. I think he said New York Times.

Mr. Griffin. At the time were you watching television when your brother shot Lee Oswald?

Mrs. Grant. Let me explain this. I got up early in the morning. I took a pill. I freshened up myself. I didn’t get dressed into my clothes. I went back into the bed. Then I decided to get out, and I turned on television, and all I saw is important people passing the coffin on television, people from all over the world.

I started to put on water, and I didn’t feel good, and I was listening, and then all of a sudden they started, they changed the scene themselves, and I saw a guy with, it seems to me a three-quarters length coat with glasses and a lot of hair, and he is talking, and is mumbling.

Mr. Burleson. Tom?

Mrs. Grant. I don’t know who to this very day. I don’t know who they were talking about.

Mr. Griffin. This was on the occasion——

Mrs. Grant. This was after 11 o’clock now.

Mr. Griffin. But this was how you learned that Jack had shot Oswald?

Mrs. Grant. Let me explain this. My phone rang, and I heard this guy say—this may be twisting the words around. “There has been a little excitement here,” and he stopped and he says. “I think they shot Oswald.”

And my phone rang. Leonard Wood was talking to me on the phone. This is all in—whether he was listening to another station, or something, I don’t know, and he is talking to me, and what do you think I said to him, I said, “Leonard, you don’t call me every day. Now don’t tell me, ‘How do you feel, Mrs. Grant?’”

“Fine. Do you know where Jack is at?”

And I said, “No.”

Mr. Griffin. Had Leonard tried to call Jack in the morning?

Mrs. Grant. Now, don’t ask me that. I want to tell you. I don’t know what he tried to do.

Now, we talked about different things, and then he was almost gone, and hanging on, and he said, “Are you watching television, Mrs. Grant?”

And I said, “Yes.”

I was watching, but I wasn’t listening.

Mr. Griffin. How soon did you learn that Oswald had been shot?

Mrs. Grant. I want to tell you how many phone calls I got. This is one for the books. I am talking to him, and I finally said, “Now, listen, Leonard”—I figured he was trying to find Jack to get some money. I said, “Now, listen, Leonard, you know things have been pretty rough in the club, and you got $10 either last night or the night before.”

And he said, “I don’t want any money.” And he said, “Are you all right?”

And I said, “Yes.”

See, he probably—I never got to talk to Leonard. I wish he would come to see me. I don’t know whether he knew of something or what, and he was hemming and hawing over the phone, I didn’t get a chance to put the phone down a second, not a second. The phone rang and Andy said, “Mrs. Grant, this is Andy. Where is Jack? Is Jack with you?”

And I said, “No. He is at home.”

He said, “No, he is not at home.”

I said, “Listen, you know when Jack takes a shower—ring him again.”

And he said, “I rang four or five times.”

I said, “Hang up and call again.”

And he said, “Mrs. Grant, I rang.”

I said, “If he is in the bathroom, he isn’t going to hear the phone.” And we talked—I don’t know if he knew. I mean, this I found out he knew.

I asked him about 2 weeks later, or a week later, and he knew about it.

Wait a minute, I am not through. The phone rang again, and I want to tell you, you may know I put on water for boiling—Madeline Blainey was on the phone.

By this time I got to the television. I only had to walk from there to a few feet. I had it on that wall, maybe 9 feet, and I turned it up, and this is what I heard, “John Logan, no Jack Luby.”

I wanted to back in the kitchen with the phone, and I wasn’t walking too much, and I turned it down.

Madeline is on the phone and says, “How do you feel?”

And I said, “Fine.” I am talking to her, and I turned the damn thing down.

I saw—this is rerun—if it is, I don’t know—I actually saw what the other people saw. This is my conversation with Madeline and why they never went to see her, I will never know.

I am watching it. “Don’t forget,” I said, you get the name, repeat the two names. But I turned it down, because it was too close to the phone.

I wasn’t going to go out of the living room, and I wasn’t going to eliminate one or the other. I wanted to be sure I know both things are going on.

I said, “How are you,” and she said, “OK, who is there?”

And I said, “Who would be there.”

I am wearing my mu-mu my daughter-in-law sent me for Christmas, and I wouldn’t dare let anyone in. I am shooting my mouth off about Joe Johnson. I have a great admiration—he’s a colored boy been with us 8 years. He told me, “We had a fight, not 130 fights, but a fight.”

I said, “Madeline, I want to apologize for sort of neglecting you,” because when I was in the hospital, Madeline and Joe came walking in the very same time to visit me in the hospital. Here both walking in. Madeline and I understand, but this is the guy we want as a band leader to come back.

I said, “Joe, take a seat.”

I said, “Madeline, I hope you don’t resent me talking to Joe about his children,” and we talk about his children, and he kept on talking.

She said, “Eva, I don’t want to be the one to tell you this. Do you know who did the shooting?”

And I said, “No.”

She said, “Jack shot Oswald.”

That was the end of me. Now, I never hung up. I never turned my television off. I remember these people, Jim Holland and his wife, Margo, and a fellow who, these people live next door, Jim Reed—the manager had gone away for the day, but I didn’t know it. As a rule, she would have heard me. I didn’t know for 2 days that she wasn’t there Sunday.

I ran to the door, and I don’t know what happened—this I tell you. In the first place, no one ever told me. I thought they killed my brother too.

All I know is, I was out of my mind. I ran to the door—I don’t usually dress in this—in my mu-mu to meet strangers, but there was such a knock on my door. There were minutes I can’t recall.

I will not tell you any stories. I don’t know exactly, before I knew it, all I know there were photographers there—and your best guess is to ask Pauline what took place, if you get in touch with her.

I go into the bathroom. I want to change, but instead, I had put a robe on. This is what I think I done.

Whoever talked to me, I thought they said they killed Jack too. I don’t know what took place.

Mr. Griffin. Now, Mrs. Grant, what you are telling us now can’t affect your brother’s case in any way.

Mrs. Grant. I am not trying to hide anything.

Mr. Griffin. I realize, but I want to tell you—I realize you want to tell us, and I am going to have to cut you off.

I want to explain to you that what you could tell us from here on, since it is all after the fact, is not material relevant to the shooting of Oswald. So, we are at the end really.

Let me ask you this question: Did you talk to your brother at all about the President’s visit, expected visit to Dallas before President Kennedy arrived?

Mrs. Grant. During that week on Monday—now, it may have been Tuesday, Dallas Morning News had a picture of a desk similar to this. Looked like two doors, and little John-John was right here, and the President was back there, and the President was looking at him, and my brother had said, “This guy don’t act like a President. He is just like a regular father.”

This is what my brother enjoyed.

Mr. Griffin. Did your brother talk to you about going to see the parade?

Mrs. Grant. No.

Mr. Griffin. Let me ask you if we can do this. You brought a number of items here that you would like us to look at. I don’t want to take them from you without making a record.

Mrs. Grant. I want to sign that paper for you. That is what I want to do.

I think you are being very fair, and I am going to tell you this, there are a lot of things that concern these things, and they are upsetting me because I can’t tell them, and I can’t leave them here. I know your time is limited.

Mr. Griffin. Let me try and reassure you this way. I think I am going to be back in Dallas, probably once more, and I know that you probably would like to talk to us again, and we will make arrangements to talk to you at that time.

Mrs. Grant. Well, if you don’t talk to me, I am going to Washington, and I am going to do some pretty stiff talking.

Mr. Griffin. We want to hear everything you have to say. I wonder if you would want to send to us the particular things that you want to talk to us about, so we can be prepared to handle them perhaps in a relatively orderly fashion?

Mrs. Grant. No, I don’t want it in any mail.

Mr. Griffin. You don’t want to send anything to us?

Mrs. Grant. Not through the mail.

This is the stuff, take it with you.

Mr. Burleson. That is the post office package that Jack picked up.

Mr. Griffin. This is the material you had printed?

Mrs. Grant. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Okay.