TESTIMONY OF CHARLES OLIVER ARNETT (continued 2)

Mr. Arnett. Where the newspaper—no; I did not.

Mr. Griffin. Were you present when some men convened around Officer Jones, Captain Jones, prior to Oswald's coming down, when Jones gave some instructions?

Mr. Arnett. Sergeant Jones?

Mr. Griffin. No. Captain Jones.

Mr. Arnett. Captain Jones. I remember seeing Captain Jones there, but I don't remember any group being around him.

Mr. Griffin. Well, did you have any instructions to the effect that you were not to permit newspaper people to be over here on the Main Street side?

Mr. Arnett. No, sir. I did not.

Mr. Griffin. Did you have any instructions that you were to try to keep these newspaper people over toward the entrance of the garage?

Mr. Arnett. No, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Well, what instructions did you have as to what you were to do there?

Mr. Arnett. Well, the main instructions I had was to—when we was placing these men around, searching the building, see that there was nobody in there at all, other than was supposed to be.

Mr. Griffin. But that was an hour before?

Mr. Arnett. That's right.

Mr. Griffin. All right. Now, you knew Oswald was going to come out that door from the jail, jail office?

Mr. Arnett. Yes, sir.

Mr. Griffin. And did you have some idea that you were supposed to keep the area free?

Mr. Arnett. Well, wasn't supposed to let anybody in there.

Mr. Griffin. Well, if newspaper people had crowded up in front of him, did you have any instructions as to what you were to do?

Mr. Arnett. I didn't.

Mr. Griffin. Well, do you know if any of the other people had instructions like that?

Mr. Arnett. No, sir.

Mr. Griffin. When did you write the report that has been marked as Exhibit 5033?

Mr. Arnett. When did I write it?

Mr. Griffin. Yes, sir.

Mr. Arnett. That one was—let me see, now. That happened on Sunday, I went to Tippit's funeral on Monday, I went to Corpus Christi on Monday night, I was in Corpus on Tuesday. I believe I wrote that on Wednesday [indicating].

Mr. Griffin. Right. Now, Sunday was the 24th——

Mr. Arnett. Monday would have been the 25th, Tuesday the 26th, be the 27th.

Mr. Griffin. All right. Would you indicate on here, would you put composed November 27, and initial that [indicating]?

Mr. Arnett. How do you spell composed?

Mr. Griffin. [Spelling] C-o-m-p-o-s-e-d.

Mr. Arnett. [Spelling] C-o-m-p——

Mr. Griffin. [Spelling]—o-s-e-d.

Mr. Arnett. November 27?

Mr. Griffin. Yes, sir. Okay. Now, in between this time, in between the time that you left the police building on the 24th and the time you prepared this statement, did you talk with any of the members of the police department about the events?

Mr. Arnett. You mean how it was—how they were set up or something?

Mr. Griffin. No. Any conversations—did you talk with any of the police officers?

Mr. Arnett. Well now, on Monday, after this on Sunday, I was down there and called some men to meet me out at the Baptist Church on Beckley, to work traffic for the Tippit funeral. I talked to Lieutenant Pierce. He asked me if I would get some reserves out there to help, that they was going to need some, and I said I will call and get some and go out there myself, and I did.

Mr. Griffin. Did you talk with Pierce about the things that had happened on November 24?

Mr. Arnett. Not that I know of now. Not that I remember about. We were talking about this one particular area.

Mr. Griffin. Now, did you ever talk with Pierce at that time, prior to the time you wrote this statement, did you ever talk with Pierce about how Ruby got into the basement?

Mr. Arnett. I don't know whether I did prior to that letter or not. I have heard since then that when Lieutenant Pierce drove out, that the officers stepped out to stop the traffic and that Jack Ruby said that's when he walked in. Now, when I heard that I couldn't say, the date, but I don't know, but I have heard that.

Mr. Griffin. Before you prepared the statement, did you talk with any of the reserves or any members of the police department, about how Ruby might have got down in the basement?

Mr. Arnett. Well, it seems that maybe some people would say, well, he must have come in with a camera or something, you know, like that. As far as just individuals talking to anybody about it, I don't remember, you know, just particularly talking about that one thing of how he got in there. But I am confident that he wasn't in there. I am confident of that, as I am that Jack Ruby shot Oswald, and I saw that. I may be wrong about it, but now, that's just the way I feel about it, that he wasn't in that basement.

Mr. Griffin. Where do you think he was?

Mr. Arnett. Well, I don't know where he was. But as far as him being in there any length of time, I just don't believe he was.

Mr. Griffin. Would you have seen him if he came across the railing?

Mr. Arnett. Would I have seen him?

Mr. Griffin. Yes.

Mr. Arnett. Well, it seems like I would have, but I don't know that I would have.

Mr. Griffin. Why do you think you would have?

Mr. Arnett. Well, you know, if you are just looking off, like this, and something happens over here in 10 or 12 feet of you, you will almost——

Mr. Griffin. Wasn't your attention focused almost all the time—after Pierce's car went up the ramp, wasn't your attention focused towards the jail office?

Mr. Arnett. Well, I would say yes, most of the time, but you can just let anything—you can be driving down the road and a bird or something fly by, you will get a glance of it, and I believe if he had come over that rail I would have got the glance off of it.

Mr. Griffin. Could you see things happening over by that railing?

Mr. Arnett. Well, I am not going to say that you could or you couldn't, but I believe if he had come over that railing, I believe I would have saw him.

Mr. Griffin. Well now, if he had come over the railing behind the line that you were standing in you wouldn't have seen him, would you?

Mr. Arnett. No. Sure wouldn't have.

Mr. Griffin. All right. If you were drawing a straight line across your shoulders—well, let's not do it that way. You have got this thing marked on the map here where the A is and where I placed the TV cameras. If you were drawing a straight line across the Main Street ramp, where would that line—how far would that line have come from the TV cameras that I have placed here [indicating]?

Mr. Arnett. How far would it come?

Mr. Griffin. Yes. In other words, how far up the [indicating]——

Mr. Arnett. I would say a straight line behind the cameras would have been about like Mr. Davis from me [indicating].

Mr. Griffin. What I am asking you here, I am asking you to tell me about how far up the Main Street ramp you were standing from the TV cameras; would you say that the TV cameras and you were the same distance up the Main Street ramp or they were a little bit in front of you?

Mr. Arnett. They were a little in front of me.

Mr. Griffin. How much; by a little bit, would you say?

Mr. Arnett. Well, 5 feet.

Mr. Griffin. Maybe 5 feet in front of you. Could they have been less than 5 feet?

Mr. Arnett. I don't believe they would have been. They could have. I am just roughly guessing now.

Mr. Griffin. Now, were there people congregated around those TV cameras, in front of those TV cameras?

Mr. Arnett. In front of it?

Mr. Griffin. Yes.

Mr. Arnett. I don't remember any of them being in front of it.

Mr. Griffin. How about along the sides of the TV cameras?

Mr. Arnett. If I remember right, there was a man at each one of the cameras, operating it.

Mr. Griffin. But there weren't other people crowded down around them?

Mr. Arnett. Not that I remember; no, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Well now, wouldn't Captain King and that newspaperman have blocked your side vision over in the direction of the TV cameras?

Mr. Arnett. It could have.

Mr. Griffin. If Jack Ruby had walked down that Main Street ramp would you have seen him?

Mr. Arnett. Not without turning around and looking back, I wouldn't have; no, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Did you have any occasion to turn back and look around after Rio Pierce's car went up?

Mr. Arnett. No, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Do you mean you don't remember or——

Mr. Arnett. I don't remember looking around, no sir.

Mr. Griffin. Did anybody suggest to you before you wrote this statement that you should have seen Ruby in there?

Mr. Arnett. No, sir.

Mr. Griffin. Did anybody ask you if you did see Ruby in there before you wrote this statement?

Mr. Arnett. Other than I just said, I saw him just like I have told you.

Mr. Griffin. Who asked you to write this statement?

Mr. Arnett. Captain Solomon.

Mr. Griffin. Now, did Captain Solomon ever ask you before you wrote the statement whether you saw Ruby in there?

Mr. Arnett. I don't recall that he did. But I told him just like I told you, the first time I saw him, where he was, the position he was, so there would be no cause for him to ask me that, because I am telling you the truth about where he was when I saw him. He was too close.

Mr. Griffin. Well, do you feel——

Mr. Arnett. Whenever I had ahold of him, I felt like there could be some more shots fired. I believe you would have felt the same way, because I wasn't figuring on that first one being fired.

Mr. Griffin. Okay. I am going to ask you to sign all these things [indicating].

Mr. Arnett. All right [indicating].

Mr. Griffin. I ask you to sign them, and I assume that when you sign them you are indicating that you think they are accurate and wouldn't make any changes to them?

Mr. Arnett. Yes, sir. I have tried to tell you just as near the truth as I can. Just sign it or——

Mr. Griffin. Just sign it and put the date. Now, will you sign that one and this one here [indicating]?

Off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. Griffin. Have I interviewed you before the beginning of this deposition?

Mr. Arnett. Before tonight?

Mr. Griffin. Yes.

Mr. Arnett. Not that I know of.

Mr. Griffin. Has any other member of the staff interviewed you before I took your deposition?

Mr. Arnett. The only one that interviewed me was the FBI men, came to my home, one of them was from Memphis, Tenn., and I don't know where the other one came from.

Mr. Griffin. I don't have to ask you this, but we say it for the record anyhow. If anything should come to your attention which you think would be helpful to us or which you find maybe you want to make a correction in anything that you have told us, will you come to us and——

Mr. Arnett. Absolutely.

Mr. Griffin. And advise us?

Mr. Arnett. I am for you 100 percent.

Mr. Griffin. I certainly appreciate your assistance. That's all.