HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 21, 1742-3. (continued 2)

That too much, however, is used by the common people, and that intemperance has for some time prevailed in a degree unknown to any former age, cannot be denied; and, therefore, some means of reclaiming them ought to be tried. What then, my lords, is to be done? The first law was eluded, the second is defied: the first was executed, but produced no restraint; the second produces a restraint so violent, that it cannot be executed.

That the present law is ineffectual, cannot be doubted by those who assert, that the quantity of spirits distilled has every year increased; and there seems to remain, therefore, no other choice than that of suffering this increase to proceed, or to endeavour to prevent it by new regulations. The present law ought to be repealed, because it is useless; but surely some other ought to supply its place, which may be more easily enforced, and less violently opposed.

The bill now before us, my lords, will, in my opinion, answer all the purposes of the last, without noise, and without disturbance. By lessening the price of licenses, it will put a stop to clandestine retail; and by raising that of the liquors, it will hinder the common people from drinking them in their usual excess. Those who have hitherto lost their reason and limbs twice a-day by their drunkenness, will not be able, under the intended regulations, to commit the same crime twice in a week; and as the temptation of cheapness will be taken away, it may be hoped that the next generation will not fall into the same vice.

Since, therefore, my lords, the arguments in favour of this bill are at least plausible and specious; since the design appears to be worthy of this assembly, and the method proposed such as may be hoped to produce the effects which the projectors of the bill desire; and since the opinions of this house are at least divided, and the other has passed it almost without opposition, we ought at least, in my opinion, not to reject it with precipitation, but to refer it to a committee, that it may be fully considered; and those objections which cannot be answered, removed by proper alterations.

Lord CARTERET spoke to the following purport:—My lords, the bill now under our consideration appears to me to deserve a much more close regard than seems to have been paid to it in the other house, through which it was hurried with the utmost precipitation, and where it was passed, almost without the formality of a debate; nor can I think that earnestness with which some lords seem inclined to press it forward here, consistent with the importance of the consequences which may be with great reason expected from it,

It has been urged, that where so great a number have formed expectations of a national benefit from any bill, so much deference, at least, is due to their judgment, as that the bill should be considered in a committee. This, my lords, I admit to be in other cases a just and reasonable demand, and will readily allow that the proposal not only of a considerable number, but even of any single lord, ought to be fully examined, and regularly debated, according to the usual forms of this assembly. But in the present case, my lords, and in all cases like the present, this demand is improper, because it is useless; and it is useless, because we can do now all that we can do hereafter in a committee. For the bill before us is a money bill, which, according to the present opinion of the commons, we have no right to amend; and which, therefore, we have no need of considering in a committee, since the event of all our deliberations must be, that we are either to reject or pass it in its present state. For I suppose no lord will think this a proper time to enter into a controversy with the commons for the revival of those privileges to which I believe we have a right, and such a controversy the least attempt to amend a money bill will certainly produce.

To desire, therefore, my lords, that this bill may be considered in a committee, is only to desire that it may gain one step without opposition; that it may proceed through the forms of the house by stealth, and that the consideration of it maybe delayed till the exigencies of the government shall be so great as not to allow time for raising the supplies by any other method.

By this artifice, gross as it is, the patrons of this wonderful bill hope to obstruct a plain and open detection of its tendency. They hope, my lords, that the bill shall operate in the same manner with the liquor which it is intended to bring into more general use; and that as those that drink spirits are drunk before they are well aware that they are drinking, the effects of this law shall be perceived before we know that we have made it. Their intent is to give us a dram of policy, which is to be swallowed before it is tasted, and which, when once it is swallowed, will turn our heads.

But, my lords, I hope we shall be so cautious as to examine the draught which these state empirics have thought proper to offer us; and I am confident that a very little examination will convince us of the pernicious qualities of their new preparation, and show that it can have no other effect than that of poisoning the publick.

The law before us, my lords, seems to be the effect of that practice, of which it is intended likewise to be the cause, and to be dictated by the liquor of which it so effectually promotes the use; for surely it never before was conceived, by any man intrusted with the administration of publick affairs, to raise taxes by the destruction of the people.

Nothing, my lords, but the destruction of all the most laborious and useful part of the nation can be expected, from the license which is now proposed to be given not only to drunkenness, but to drunkenness of the most detestable and dangerous kind, to the abuse not only of intoxicating, but of poisonous liquors.

Nothing, my lords, is more absurd than to assert, that the use of spirits will be hindered by the bill now before us, or indeed that it will not be in a very great degree promoted by it. For what produces all kind of wickedness, but the prospect of impunity on one part, or the solicitation of opportunity on the other; either of these has too frequently been sufficient to overpower the sense of morality, and even of religion; and what is not to be feared from them, when they shall unite their force, and operate together; when temptations shall be increased, and terrour taken away?

It is allowed by those who have hitherto disputed on either side of this question, that the people appear obstinately enamoured of this new liquor; it is allowed on both parts, that this liquor corrupts the mind, enervates the body, and destroys vigour and virtue at the same time; that it makes those who drink it too idle and too feeble for work; and, while it impoverishes them by the present expense, disables them from retrieving its ill consequences by subsequent industry.

It might be imagined, my lords, that those who had thus far agreed would not easily find any occasion of dispute; nor would any man, unacquainted with the motives by which senatorial debates are too often influenced, suspect, that after the pernicious qualities of this liquor, and the general inclination among the people to the immoderate use of it, had been generally admitted, it could be afterwards inquired, whether it ought to be made more common, whether this universal thirst for poison ought to be encouraged by the legislature, and whether a new statute ought to be made to secure drunkards in the gratification, of their appetites.

To pretend, my lords, that the design of this bill is to prevent or diminish the use of spirits, is to trample upon common sense, and to violate the rules of decency as well as of reason. For when did any man hear, that a commodity was prohibited by licensing its sale? or that to offer and refuse is the same action?

It is, indeed, pleaded, that it will be made dearer by the tax which is proposed, and that the increase of the price will diminish the numbers of the purchasers; but it is at the same time expected, that this tax shall supply the expense of a war on the continent: it is asserted, therefore, that the consumption of spirits will be hindered, and yet that it will be such as may be expected to furnish, from a very small tax, a revenue sufficient for the support of armies, for the reestablishment of the Austrian family, and the repression of the attempts of France.

Surely, my lords, these expectations are not very consistent, nor can it be imagined that they are both formed in the same head, though they may be expressed by the same mouth. It is, however, some recommendation of a statesman, when of his assertions one can be found reasonable or true; and this praise cannot be denied to our present ministers; for though it is undoubtedly false, that this tax will lessen the consumption of spirits, it is certainly true, that it will produce a very large revenue, a revenue that will not fail but with the people from whose debaucheries it arises.

Our ministers will, therefore, have the same honour with their predecessors, of having given rise to a new fund, not indeed for the payment of our debts, but for much more valuable purposes, for the exaltation of our hearts under oppression, for the elevation of our spirits amidst miscarriages and disappointments, and for the cheerful support of those debts which we have lost hopes of paying. They are resolved, my lords, that the nation, which nothing can make wise, shall, while they are at its head, at least be merry; and since publick happiness is the end of government, they seem to imagine that they shall deserve applause by an expedient, which will enable every man to lay his cares asleep, to drown sorrow, and lose in the delights of drunkenness both the publick miseries and his own.

Surely, my lords, men of this unbounded benevolence, and this exalted genius, deserve such honours as were never paid before; they deserve to bestride a butt upon every signpost in the metropolis, or to have their countenances exhibited as tokens where this liquor is to be sold by the license which they have procured. They must be at least remembered to future ages, as the happy politicians who, after all expedients for raising taxes had been employed, discovered a new method of draining the last relicks of the publick wealth, and added a new revenue to the government; nor will those, who shall hereafter enumerate the several funds now established among us, forget, among the benefactors to their country, the illustrious authors of the drinking fund.

May I be allowed, my lords, to congratulate my countrymen and fellow-subjects upon the happy times which are now approaching, in which no man will be disqualified for the privilege of being drunk, when all discontent and disloyalty shall be forgotten, and the people, though now considered by the ministry as their enemies, shall acknowledge the lenity of that government, under which all restraints are taken away.

But to a bill for such desirable purposes, it would be proper, my lords, to prefix a preamble, in which the kindness of our intentions should be more fully explained, that the nation may not mistake our indulgence for cruelty, nor consider their benefactors as their persecutors. If, therefore, this bill be considered and amended, (for why else should it be considered?) in a committee, I shall humbly propose, that it shall be introduced in this manner: "Whereas the designs of the present ministry, whatever they are, cannot be executed without a great number of mercenaries, which mercenaries cannot be hired without money; and whereas the present disposition of this nation to drunkenness inclines us to believe, that they will pay more cheerfully for the undisturbed enjoyment of distilled liquors, than for any other concession that can be made by the government, be it enacted, by the king's most excellent majesty, that no man shall hereafter be denied the right of being drunk, on the following conditions."

This, my lords, to trifle no longer, is the proper preamble to this bill, which contains only the conditions on which the people of this kingdom are to be allowed henceforward to riot in debauchery, in debauchery licensed by law, and countenanced by the magistrates; for there is no doubt but those on whom the inventors of this tax shall confer authority, will be directed to assist their masters in their design to encourage the consumption of that liquor from which such large revenues are expected, and to multiply, without end, those licenses which are to pay a yearly tribute to the crown.

By this unbounded license, my lords, that price will be lessened, from the increase of which the expectations of the efficacy of this law are pretended; for the number of retailers will lessen the value as in all other cases, and lessen it more than this tax will increase it. Besides, it is to be considered, that at present the retailer expects to be paid for the danger which he incurs by an unlawful trade, and will not trust his reputation or his purse to the mercy of his customer, without a profit proportioned to the hazard; but when once the restraint shall be taken away, he will sell for common gain; and it can hardly be imagined, that at present he subjects himself to informations and penalties for less than sixpence a gallon.

The specious pretence on which this bill is founded, and, indeed, the only pretence that deserves to be termed specious, is the propriety of taxing vice; but this maxim of government has, on this occasion, been either mistaken or perverted. Vice, my lords, is not properly to be taxed, but suppressed; and heavy taxes are sometimes the only means by which that suppression can be attained. Luxury, my lords, or the excess of that which is pernicious only by its excess, may very properly be taxed, that such excess, though not strictly unlawful, may be made more difficult. But the use of those things which are simply hurtful, hurtful in their own nature, and in every degree, is to be prohibited. None, my lords, ever heard in any nation of a tax upon theft or adultery, because a tax implies a license granted for the use of that which is taxed, to all who shall be willing to pay it.

Drunkenness, my lords, is universally and in all circumstances an evil, and, therefore, ought not to be taxed, but punished; and the means of it not to be made easy by a slight impost, which none can feel, but to be removed out of the reach of the people, and secured by the heaviest taxes, levied with the utmost rigour. I hope those to whose care the religion of the nation is particularly consigned, will unanimously join with me in maintaining the necessity, not of taxing vice, but suppressing it; and unite for the rejection of a bill, by which the future as well as present happiness of thousands must be destroyed.

Lord LONSDALE spoke as follows:—My lords, the bill now before us, has, from its first appearance in the other house, seemed to me of such importance as to deserve the greatest attention, and to demand the most diligent inquiry; and I have, therefore, considered it with uncommon care, and pursued all those inquiries from which I could expect any assistance for discovering its tendency and its consequences, with the nicest and most anxious vigilance.

That my attention and diligence may not wholly terminate in the gratification of idle and useless curiosity, it is proper to inform your lordships of their result; by which I hope to convince you, as I am myself convinced, that this bill cannot become a law, without endangering the lives of thousands, without dispersing diseases over the nation, or without multiplying crimes beyond the possibility of restraint or punishment; that it will fill the land with confusion for a time, by infatuating the people, and afterwards lay it desolate by destroying them.

All my inquiries, my lords, have had one constant and uniform Effect. On what side soever I have turned my speculations, I have found new arguments against this bill, and have discovered new mischiefs comprised in it; mischiefs which, however some may endeavour to overlook them, and others to despise them, will be found in a short time too general to be concealed, and too formidable to be neglected.

The first consideration, in which the necessity of deliberating on this bill engaged me, related to the quality of the liquors which are mentioned in it. With regard to this question, my lords, there was no possibility of long suspense; for the pernicious effects of spirits were confessed equally by all those who countenanced and opposed this new project; nor could any man take a survey of this city without meeting in his way such objects as might make all farther inquiry superfluous. The idleness, the insolence, the debauchery of the common people, and their natural and certain consequences, poverty, diseases, misery, and wickedness, are to be observed without any intention of indulging such disagreeable speculations; in every part of this great metropolis, whoever shall pass along the streets, will find wretches stretched upon the pavement, insensible and motionless, and only removed by the charity of passengers from the danger of being crushed by carriages, or trampled by horses, or strangled with filth in the common sewers; and others, less helpless perhaps, but more dangerous, who have drank too much to fear punishment, but not enough to hinder them from provoking it; who think themselves, in the elevation of drunkenness, entitled to treat all those with contempt whom their dress distinguishes from them, and to resent every injury which, in the heat of their imagination, they suppose themselves to suffer, with the utmost rage of resentment, violence of rudeness, and scurrility of tongue.

No man can pass a single hour in publick places without meeting such objects, or hearing such expressions as disgrace human nature; such as cannot be looked upon without horrour, or heard without indignation, and which there is, however, no possibility of removing or preventing, whilst this hateful liquor is publickly sold. But the visible and obvious effects of these pernicious draughts, however offensive or inconvenient, are yet much less to be dreaded than their more slow and secret operations. That excess of distilled spirits inflames the poor to insolence and fury; that it exposes them either to hurt, by making them insensible of danger, or to punishment, by making them fearless of authority, is not to be reckoned the most fatal consequence of their use; for these effects, though their frequency makes it necessary to suppress them, with regard to each individual are of no long duration; the understanding is in a short time recovered after a single debauch, and the drunkard may return to his employment.

But though the pleasures of drunkenness are quickly at an end, its pains are of longer continuance. These liquors not only infatuate the mind, but poison the body; nor do they produce only momentary fury, but incurable debility and lingering diseases; they not only fill our streets with madmen, and our prisons with criminals, but our hospitals with cripples. Those who have for a time infested the publick walks with their insults, quickly disturb them with their lamentations, and are soon reduced from bullies to beggars, and obliged to solicit alms from those they used to threaten and insult.

Nor does the use of spirits, my lords, only impoverish the publick, by lessening the number of useful and laborious hands, but by cutting off those recruits by which its natural and inevitable losses are to be supplied. The use of distilled liquors impairs the fecundity of the human race, and hinders that increase which providence has ordained for the support of the world. Those women who riot in this poisonous debauchery are quickly disabled from bearing children, by bringing on themselves, in a short time, all the infirmities and weaknesses of age; or, what is yet more destructive to general happiness, produce children diseased from their birth by the vices of their parents, children whose blood is tainted with inveterate and accumulated maladies, for which no cure can be expected;'and who, therefore, are an additional burden to the community, and must be supported through a miserable life by that labour which they cannot share, and must be protected by that community of which they cannot contribute to the defence.

Thus, my lords, is the great source of power and wealth dried up, the numbers of the people are every day diminished, and, by consequence, our armies must be weakened, our trade abandoned, and our lands uncultivated. To diminish the people of any nation is the most atrocious political crime that it is possible to commit; for it tends not to enslave or impoverish, but to annihilate; not to make a nation miserable, but to make it no longer a nation.

Such, my lords, are the effects of distilled liquors; effects of which I would not have shocked you with the enumeration, had it not been with a design of preventing them; and surely no man will be charged with so trivial an offence as negligence of delicacy, when he is pleading, not for the honour or the life of a single man, but for the peace of the present age, the health of posterity, and the existence of the British people.

After having examined the nature of these liquors, it is natural to inquire, how much they are in use; whether mankind appear to know their quality, and avoid and detest them like other poisons; or whether they are considered as inoffensive, and drank, like other liquors, to raise the spirits, or to gladden the heart; whether they make part of social entertainments, and whether they are handed round at publick tables, without any suspicion of their fatal consequences.

It is well known, my lords, that these liquors have not been long in use among the common people. Spirits were at first only imported from foreign countries, and were, by consequence, too dear for the luxuries of the vulgar. In time it was discovered, that it was practicable to draw from grain, and other products of our own soil, such liquors as, though not equally pleasing to elegant palates with those of other nations, resembled them, at least in their inebriating quality, and might be afforded at an easy rate, and consequently generally purchased.

This discovery, my lords, gave rise to the new trade of distilling, which has been now for many years carried on in this nation, and of the progress of which, since the duties were laid upon its produce, an exact account may be easily obtained, which I thought so necessary in our deliberations on this bill, that I have procured it to be drawn out.

From this account, my lords, it will be discovered, what cannot be related without the utmost grief, that there has prevailed, for many years, a kind of contagious infatuation among the common people, by which they have been incited to poison themselves and their children with distilled spirits; they have forsaken those liquors which in former times enlivened their conversation and exalted their merriment, and, instead of ale and beer, rioted of late in distilled spirits.

The amazing increase of the consumption of spirits for the last ten years, is a proof too evident of the prevalence of this destructive species of drunkenness; and I shall, therefore, without troubling your lordships with earlier accounts, only mention in round numbers, the vast quantities for which the duty has been paid for a few years in that period. In the year 1733, the number of gallons distilled was three millions and nine hundred thousand, which in 1735 was increased to five millions and three hundred thousand; soon afterwards the law was made which we are now persuaded to repeal, by the execution of which, however feeble and irresolute, the number was reduced in the first year afterwards to three millions, and might, perhaps, by steady perseverance have been every year lessened; but in a short time the people prevailed in the contest with the legislators, they intimidated information, and wearied prosecution; and were at length allowed to indulge themselves in the enjoyment of their favourite vice without any farther molestation.

The effects of this indulgence, my lords, have been very remarkable; nor can it be denied, that the government betrayed great weakness in suffering the laws to be overruled by drunkenness, and the meanest and most profligate of the people to set the statutes at defiance; for the vice which had been so feebly opposed spread wider and wider, and every year added regularly another million of gallons to the quantity of spirits distilled, till in the last year they rose to seven millions and one hundred thousand gallons.

Such, my lords, is at present the state of the nation; twelve millions of gallons of these poisonous liquors are every year swallowed by the inhabitants of this kingdom; and this quantity, enormous as it is, will probably every year increase, till the number of the people shall be sensibly diminished by the diseases which it must produce; nor shall we find any decay of this pernicious trade, but by the general mortality that will overspread the kingdom.

At least, if this vice should be suppressed, it must be suppressed by some supernatural interposition of providence; for nothing is more absurd, than to imagine, that the bill now before us can produce any such effect. For what, my lords, encourages any man to a crime but security from punishment, or what tempts him to the commission of it but frequent opportunity? We are, however, about to reform the practice of drinking spirits, by making spirits more easy to be procured; we are about to hinder them from being bought, by exempting the vender from all fear of punishment.

It has, indeed, been asserted, that the tax now to be laid upon these liquors will have such wonderful effects, that those who are at present drunk twice a-day, will not be henceforward able to commit the same crime twice a-week; an assertion which I could not hear without wondering at the new discoveries which ministerial sagacity can sometimes make. In deliberations on a subject of such importance, my lords, no man ought to content himself with conjecture, where certainty may, at whatsoever expense of labour, be attained; nor ought any man to neglect a careful and attentive examination of his notions, before he offers them in publick consultations; for if they were erroneous, and no man can he certain that he is in the right, who has never brought his own opinions to the test of inquiry, he exposes himself to be detected in ignorance or temerity, and to that contempt which such detection naturally and justly produces; or if his audience submit their reason to his authority, and neglect to examine his assertions, in confidence that he has sufficiently examined them himself, he may suffer what to an honest mind must be far more painful than any personal ignominy, he may languish under the consciousness of having influenced the publick counsels by false declarations, and having by his negligence betrayed his country to calamities which a closer attention might have enabled him to have foreseen.

Whether the noble lord, who alleged the certainty of reformation which this bill will produce, ever examined his own opinion, I know not; but think it necessary at least to consider it more particularly, to supply that proof of it which, if it be true, he neglected to produce, or to show, if it be found false, how little confident assertions are to be regarded.

Between twice a-day and twice a-week, the noble lord will not deny the proportion to be as seven to one; and, therefore, to prevent drunkenness in the degree which he persuades us to expect, the price of the liquor must be raised in the same proportion; but the duty laid upon the gallon will not increase the price a fifth part, even though it should not be eluded by distilling liquors of an extraordinary strength; one fifth part of the price is, therefore, in his lordship's estimate, equal to the whole price seven times multiplied. Such are the arguments which have been produced in favour of this bill; and such is the diligence with which the publick happiness is promoted by those who have hopes of being enriched by publick calamities.

As the tax will not make a fifth part of the price, and even that may be in some measure evaded, the duty paid for licenses scarcely deserves consideration; for it is not intended to hinder retailers, but to make them useful in some degree to the ministry, by paying a yearly tax for the license of poisoning.

It is, therefore, apparent, upon the noble lord's supposition, that the price of the liquor will be raised in consequence of this tax, that no man can be hindered from more than a fifth part of his usual debauchery, which, however, would be some advantage to the publick; but even this small advantage cannot be expected from the bill, because one part will obstruct the benefits that might be hoped from another.

The duty upon liquors, however inconsiderable, will be necessarily an augmentation of the price to the first buyer, but probably that augmentation will be very little felt by the consumer. For, my lords, it must be considered, that many circumstances concur to constitute the price of any commodity; the price of what is in itself cheap, may be raised by the art or the condition of those that sell it; what is engrossed by a few hands, is sold dearer than when the same quantity is dispersed in many; and what is sold in security, and under the protection of the law, is cheaper than that which exposes the vender to prosecutions and penalties.

At present, my lords, distilled spirits are sold in opposition to the laws of the kingdom; and, therefore, it is reasonable, as has been before observed, to believe that an extraordinary profit is expected, because no man will incur danger without advantage. It is at present retailed, for the greatest part, by indigent persons, who cannot be supposed to buy it in large quantities, and, consequently, not at the cheapest rate; and who must, of necessity, gain a large profit, because they are to subsist upon a very small stock.

These causes concurring, may be easily imagined to raise the price more than a fifth part above the profit which is expected in other traffick; but when this bill shall become a law, the necessity of large profit will no longer subsist; for there will then be no danger in retailing spirits, and they will be chiefly sold in houses by persons who can afford to purchase them in great quantities, who can be trusted by the distiller, for the usual time allowed in other trades; and who, therefore, may sell them without any exorbitant advantage.

Besides, my lords, it is reasonable to imagine, that the present profit to the retailer is very great, since, like that which arises from the clandestine exportation of wool, it is sufficient to tempt multitudes to a breach of the law, a contempt of penalties, and a defiance of the magistrates; and it may be therefore imagined, that there is room for a considerable abatement of the price, which may subtract much more than is added by this new duty.

This deduction from the price, my lords, will probably be soon produced by the emulation of retailers, who, when the trade becomes safe and publick, will endeavour to attract buyers by low rates; for what the noble lord, whose ingenious assertion I am now opposing, has declared with respect to traders, that for a tax of a penny upon any commodity, they oblige the consumers to advance twopence, is not universally true; and I believe it is as likely, that the people will insist upon having the same liquor at the usual price, without regard to the tax, as that the venders will be able to raise their price in an unreasonable proportion. The obstinacy of the people with regard to this liquor, my lords, has already appeared; and I am inclined to believe, that they who have confessedly conquered the legislature, will not suffer themselves to be overcome in the same cause by the avarice of alehouse keepers.

I am, therefore, confident, my lords, that this bill will produce no beneficial effects, even in this city; and that in the country, where the sale of spirits was hindered by the late law, or where, at least, it might have been hindered in a great measure, it will propagate wickedness and debauchery in a degree never yet known; the torrent of licentiousness will break at once upon it, and a sudden freedom from restraint will produce a wanton enjoyment of privileges which had never been thought so valuable, had they never been taken away. Thus, while the crowds of the capital are every day thinned by the licensed distributors of poison, the country, which is to be considered as the nursery in which the human species is chiefly propagated, will be made barren; and that race of men will be intercepted, which is to defend the liberty of the neighbouring nations in the next age, which is to extend our commerce to other kingdoms, or repel the encroachments of future usurpation.

The bill, my lords, will, therefore, produce none of the advantages which those who promote it have had the confidence to promise the publick. But let us now examine whether they have not been more sagacious in securing the benefits which they expect from it themselves.

That one of the intentions of it is to raise a sum to supply the present exigencies of the government is not denied; that this is the only intention is generally believed, and believed upon the strongest reasons; for it is the only effect which it can possibly produce; and to this end it is calculated with all the skill of men long versed in the laudable art of contriving taxes and of raising money.

I have already shown to your lordships, that seven millions of gallons of spirits are annually distilled in this kingdom; this consumption, at the small duty of sixpence a gallon, now to be imposed, will produce a yearly revenue of £175,000. and the tax upon licenses may be rated at a very large sum; so that there is a fund sufficient, I hope, for the expenses which a land war is to bring upon us.

But we are not to forget, my lords, that this is only the produce of the first year, and that the tax is likely to afford every year a larger revenue. As the consumption of those liquors, under its late discouragements, has advanced a million of gallons every year, it may be reasonably imagined, that by the countenance of the legislature, and the protection of authority, it will increase in a double proportion; and that in ten years more, twenty millions will be distilled every year for the destruction of the people.

Thus far, my lords, the scheme of the ministry appears prosperous; but all prosperity, at least all the prosperity of dishonesty, must in time have an end. The practice of drinking cannot be for ever continued, because it will hurry the present generation to the grave, and prevent the production of another; the revenue must cease with the consumption, and the consumption must be at an end when the consumers are destroyed.

But this, my lords, cannot speedily happen, nor have our ministers any dread of miseries which are only to fall in distant times upon another generation. It is sufficient for them, if their expedient can supply those exigencies which their counsels have brought upon the publick; if they pay their court to the crown with success, at whatever disadvantage to the people, and continue in power till they have enlarged their fortunes, and then without punishment retire to enjoy them.

But I hope, my lords, that we shall act upon very different principles; that we shall examine the most distant consequences of our resolutions, and consider ourselves, not as the agents of the crown to levy taxes, but as the guardians of the people to promote the publick happiness; that we shall always remember that happiness can be produced only by virtue; and that since this bill can tend only to the increase of debauchery, we shall, without the formality of a commitment, unanimously reject it with indignation and abhorrence.

Lord CARTERET spoke to the following effect:—My lords, the bill now before us has been examined with the utmost acuteness, and opposed with all the arts of eloquence and argumentation; nor has any topick been forgotten that could speciously be employed against it. It has been represented by some as contrary to policy, and by others as opposite to religion; its consequences have been displayed with all the confidence of prediction, and the motives upon which it has been formed, declared to be such as I hope every man abhors who projected or defends it.

It has been asserted, that this bill owes its existence only to the necessity of raising taxes for the support of unnecessary troops, to be employed in useless and dangerous expeditions; and that those who defend it have no regard to the happiness or virtue of the people, nor any other design than to raise supplies, and gratify the ministry.

In pursuance of this scheme of argument, the consequences of this bill have been very artfully deduced, and very copiously explained; and it has been asserted that by passing it, we shall show ourselves the patrons of vice, the defenders of debauchery, and the promoters of drunkenness.

It has been declared, that in consequence of this law, by which the use of distilled liquors is intended to be restrained, the retailers of them will be multiplied, and multiplied without end; till the corruption, which is already too extensive, is become general, and the nation is transformed into a herd of drunkards.

With regard to the uses to which the money which shall arise from this tax is to be applied, though it has been more than once mentioned in this debate, I shall pass it over, as without any connexion with the question before us. To confound different topicks may be useful to those whose design is to impose upon the inattention or weakness of their opponents, as they may be enabled by it to alter sometimes the state of the controversy, and to hide their fallacies in perplexity and confusion; but always to be avoided by those who endeavour to discover and to establish truth, who dispute not to confound but to convince, and who intend not to disturb the publick deliberations, but assist them.

I shall, therefore, my lords, only endeavour to show that the consequence, of which some lords express, and I believe with sincerity, such dreadful apprehensions, is not in reality to be feared from this bill; that it will probably promote the purpose for which it is declared to be calculated, and that it will by no means produce that havock in the human species which seems to be suspected, or diffuse that corruption through the people which has been confidently foretold.

The present state of this vice, my lords, has been fully explained, as well by those who oppose the bill as by those who defend it. The use of distilled liquors is now prohibited by a penal law, but the execution of this law, as of all others of the same kind, necessarily supposes a regular information of the breach of it to be laid before the magistrate. The people consider this law, however just or necessary, as an act of the most tyrannical cruelty, which ought to be opposed with the utmost steadiness and vigour, as an insupportable hardship from which they ought at any rate to set themselves free.

They have determined, therefore, not to be governed by this law, and have, consequently, endeavoured to hinder its execution; and so vigorous have been their efforts, that they have at last prevailed. At first they only opposed it by their perseverance and obstinacy, they resolved to persist in the practice of retailing liquors without regard to the penalties which they might incur by it; and, therefore, as one was put to prison, his place was immediately supplied by another; and so frequent were the informations and so fruitless the penalties, that the chief magistrate of the metropolis lamented publickly in the other house, the unpleasing necessity to which he was subjected by that law, of fining and imprisoning without end, and without hopes of procuring the reformation that was intended. Thus they proceeded for some time, and appeared to hope that the magistrates would after a while connive at a practice, which they should find no degree of severity sufficient to suppress; that they would sink under the fatigue of punishing to no purpose, that they would by degrees relax their vigilance, and leave the people in quiet possession of that felicity which they appeared to rate at so high a price.

At length, my lords, instead of wearying the magistrates, they grew weary themselves, and determined no longer to bear persecution for their enjoyments, but to resist that law which they could not evade, and to which they would not submit. They, therefore, determined to mark out all those who by their informations promoted its execution, as publick enemies, as wretches who, for the sake of a reward, carried on a trade of perjury and persecution, and who harassed their innocent neighbours only for carrying on a lawful employment for supplying the wants of the poor, relieving the weariness of the labourer, administering solace to the dejected, and cordials to the sick.

The word was, therefore, given that no informer should be spared; and when an offender was summoned by the civil officers, crowds watched at the door of the magistrate to rescue the prisoner, and to discover and seize the witness upon whose testimony he was convicted; and unfortunate was the wretch who, with the imputation of this crime upon him, fell into their hands; it is well remembered by every man who at that time was conversant in this city, with what outcries of vengeance an informer was pursued in the publick streets, and in the open day; with what exclamations of triumph he was seized, and with what rage of cruelty he was tormented.

One instance of their fury I very particularly remember: as a man was passing along the streets, the alarm was given that he was an informer against the retailers of spirituous liquors, the populace were immediately gathered as in a time of common danger, and united in the pursuit as of a beast of prey, which it was criminal not to destroy; the man discovered, either by consciousness or intelligence, his danger, and fled for his life with the utmost precipitation; but no housekeeper durst afford him shelter, the cry increased upon him on all hands, and the populace rolled on after him with a torrent not to be resisted; and he was upon the point of being overtaken, and like some others destroyed, when one of the greatest persons in the nation, hearing the tumult, and inquiring the reason, opened his doors to the distressed fugitive, and sheltered him from a cruel death.

Soon afterwards there was a stop put to all information; no man dared afterwards, for the sake of a reward, expose himself to the fury of the people, and the use of these destructive liquors was no longer obstructed. How much the practice of this kind of debauchery prevailed, after this short restraint, and how much the consumption of these destructive liquors has increased, the noble lord who spoke last has very accurately informed us, nor can any argument be offered for the present bill more strong than that which his computations have already furnished.

For if it appears, my lords, and it cannot be doubted after such authentick testimonies, that seven millions of gallons of spirits are every year consumed in this kingdom, and that of these far the greatest quantity is wasted in the most flagitious and destructive debauchery; it is surely at length necessary to consider by what means this consumption, which cannot be stopped, may be lessened, and this vice obstructed, which cannot be reformed.

By opening a sufficient number of licensed shops, the number of unlicensed retailers will be necessarily lessened, and by raising the price of the liquor, the quantity which the poor drink must, with equal certainty, be diminished; and as it cannot be imagined that the number of those who will pay annually for licenses, can be equal to that of the petty traders, who now dispose of spirits in cellars and in the streets; it is reasonable to believe that since there will be fewer sellers, less will be sold.

Some lords have, indeed, declared their suspicion, that the number of licensed shops will be such as will endanger the health of the people, and the peace of the commonwealth; and one has so far indulged his imagination, as to declare that he expects fifteen hundred shops to be set open for the sale of spirits, in a short time after the publication of this law.

If it be answered, that no spirits can be sold but by those who keep a house of publick entertainment by a license from the justices of the peace, the opponents of the bill have a reply ready, that the justices will take all opportunities to promote the increase of the revenue, and will always grant a license when it is demanded, without regard to the mischiefs that may arise from the increase of the retreats of idleness and receptacles of vice; and that, therefore, to allow justices to grant licenses for the retail of any commodity upon which a tax is laid, is to permit the sale of it without limits.

But, my lords, this argument will vanish, when it is considered that those justices to whom the law commits the superintendency of publick-houses, are superintended themselves by men who derive their authority from a higher power, and whose censures are more formidable than judicial penalties. The conduct of the justices, my lords, as of every other person, lies open to the observation of the reverend clergy, by whose counsels it is to be regulated, and by whose admonitions it ought to be reformed; admonitions which cannot be supposed to be without force from men to whom the great province of preaching virtue and truth is committed, and whose profession is so much reverenced, that reputation and infamy are generally in their power.

Should the justices, my lords, abuse their authority, either for the increase of the revenue, or any other purpose, what could they expect but to be marked out on the next day of publick worship for reproach and derision? What could they hope but that their crimes should be displayed in the most odious view to their neighbours, their children, and their dependants; and that all those from whom nature or interest teaches them to desire friendship, reverence, or esteem, will be taught to consider them as the slaves of power and the agents of villany, as the propagators of debauchery, and the enemies of mankind?

There is, therefore, my lords, reason to hope that the bill may be useful, because it will be hindered from being detrimental; and as there is an absolute necessity of doing something, and no better method can at present be proposed, I think this ought not to be rejected. We have found by experience that the publick is not to be reformed at once, and that the progress from corruption to reformation must be gradual; and as this bill enforces some degrees of amendment, it is at least more eligible than the present law, which is wholly without effect, because no man will dare to put it in execution.

Every man must be convinced, by his own experience, of the difficulty with-which long habits are surmounted. I myself suffer some indulgence which yet I cannot prevail upon myself to forbear; this indulgence is the use of too much snuff, to which it is well known that many persons of rank are not less addicted; and, therefore, I do not wonder that the law is ineffectual, which is to encounter with the habits and appetites of the whole mass of the common people.

For this reason, my lords, I cannot approve what has been recommended in this debate, any new law that may put the enjoyment of this liquor yet farther from them, by facilitating prosecutions, or enforcing penalties, as I am convinced that the natural force of the people is superiour to the law, and that their natural force will be exerted for the defence of their darling spirits, and the whole nation be shaken with universal sedition.

It has been objected by the noble lord, that the tax now proposed is such as never was raised in any government, because, though luxury may confessedly be taxed, vice ought to be constantly suppressed; and this, in his lordship's opinion, is a tax upon vice.

His lordship's distinction between luxury and vice, between the use of things unlawful, and the excess of things lawful, is undoubtedly just, but by no means applicable on this occasion; nor, indeed, has the noble lord, with all his art, been able to apply it; for he was obliged to change the terms in his argument; and, instead of calling this tax, a tax upon strong liquors, to stigmatize it with the odious appellation of a tax upon drunkenness.

To call any thing what it really is not, and then to censure it, is very easy; too easy, my lords, to be done with success. To confute the argument it is only necessary to observe, that this tax is not a tax upon drunkenness, but a tax laid upon strong liquors for the prevention of drunkenness; and, by consequence, such as falls within the compass of his own definition.

That it is not a tax upon luxury cannot be inferred from the indigence of those whom it is intended to reform; for luxury is, my lords, ad modum possidentis, of different kinds, in proportion to different conditions of life, and one man may very decently enjoy those delicacies or pleasures to which it would be foolish and criminal in another to aspire. Whoever spends upon superfluities what he must want for the necessities of life, is luxurious; and excess, therefore, of distilled spirits may be termed, with the utmost propriety, the luxury of the poor.

This, my lords, appeared to be the opinion of the noble lord who spoke so copiously on this question at the beginning of the debate; of this opinion was the reverend prelate when he observed, that necessity itself was become luxurious, and of this opinion must every man be who advises such a duty to be laid upon these liquors as may at once debar the poor from the use of them; for such a proposal evidently supposes them unnecessary, and all enjoyment of things not necessary is a degree of luxury.

To tax this luxury, which is, perhaps, the most pernicious of all others, is now proposed; but it is proposed to tax it only to suppress it, to suppress it by such slow degrees as may be borne by the people; and I hope a law so salutary will not be opposed only because it may afford the government a present supply.

The duke of NEWCASTLE then rose up, and spoke to the following effect:—My lords, I am of opinion that this debate would have been much shorter, had not the noble lords who have spoken in it suffered themselves to be led away, either by their own zeal, or the zeal of their opponents, from the true state of the question, to which I shall take the liberty of recalling their attention, that this important controversy may have at length an end.

The point, the only point that is, in my opinion, now to be considered, is this: the people of this nation have for some time practised a most pernicious and hateful kind of debauchery; against which several laws have been already made, which experience has shown to be so far without effect, that the disorder has every year increased among them; [while the duke was speaking, the bishop of ORFORD said, without intention to be overheard, "Yes, that is the true state of the case," upon which the duke stopped, and asked whether his lordship had any objection to make, who answered that he had no design of interrupting him; and he, therefore, proceeded.] A new law, therefore, is proposed, less severe, indeed, than the former, but which it is hoped will be for that reason more efficacious; this law having passed through the other house, is now, in the common course of our procedure, to be considered by us in a committee.

We are now, my lords, therefore, to resolve, whether a bill for the reformation of this flagrant vice deserves any farther deliberation, whether we shall join with the other house in their endeavours to restore the ancient sobriety and virtue of the British people, or, by an open disapprobation of their attempt, discourage them from prosecuting their design, and debar them from using the opportunities that succeeding years may afford, and the new lights which experience may supply for improving this essay, however imperfect, to a salutary and unexceptionable law.

The prelates whose laudable zeal for the promotion of virtue has prompted them to distinguish themselves on this occasion by an uncommon warmth of opposition, ought, as they appear fully sensible of the calamities which intemperance brings upon mankind, to consider likewise the consequences of refusing to examine, in a committee, a bill professedly drawn up to restrain intemperance. They ought to remember, that by rejecting this bill without a particular examination of the several clauses which it contains, and without those particular objections which such examinations necessarily produce, we shall discover a contempt of the wisdom or virtue of the other house, which may incline them in their turn to obstruct the measures of the government, or at least to neglect that evil, however great, for the redress of which they have no reason to expect our concurrence.

Those whose particular province it is to inspect the lives of the people, to recal them from vice, and strengthen them in virtue, should certainly reflect on this occasion, that the safest method ought to be chosen; and, therefore, that this bill ought to be promoted; because, not to affirm too much, it is possible that it may produce some degree of reformation; and the worst that can be feared is, that, like the present law, it will be ineffectual; for the corruption and licentiousness of the people are already such, that nothing can increase them.

The bishop of SARUM then spoke to the following purpose:—My lords, I am so far from being convinced by the arguments of the noble duke, that the bill now before us ought to be committed without farther opposition, that, in my opinion, nothing can be more unworthy of the honour of this house, or more unsuitable to the character which those who sit on this bench ought to desire, than to agree to any vote which may have the most distant appearance of approbation.

That a bill drawn up for the reformation of manners, for the restraint of a predominant and destructive vice, for the promotion of virtue, and the enforcement of religion, ought, at least, to be calmly and particularly considered; that the laudable endeavours of the commons ought not to be discouraged by a precipitate and contemptuous rejection of the measures which they have formed for the attainment of a purpose so important, is, indeed, a specious and plausible method of persuasion; but, my lords, it can affect only those who come to deliberate upon this bill without having read it.

A very slight and cursory perusal of the bill, my lords, will dissipate all the mists which eloquence can raise; it will show that the law now proposed can neither be useful nor ineffectual, but that it must operate very powerfully, though in a manner by no means agreeable to its title.

To prevent the excessive use of any thing, by allowing it to be sold without restraint, is an expedient which the wisdom of no former age ever discovered; it is, indeed, a fallacy too gross to be admitted, even by the most inconsiderate negligence, or the most contemptuous stupidity; nor am I at all inclined to believe, that the commons will impute the rejection of this bill to our disregard of virtue, or think that we have defeated any endeavours for the suppression of wickedness.

It has been affirmed, that though by the bill the sale is permitted, it is permitted only because it cannot be hindered; and that the price is raised so high, that, though the lawful venders may be multiplied, the number of the purchasers must be diminished. But even this argument, like all others that have yet been advanced, is confuted by the bill itself, from which the tax now proposed appears to be such as, when subdivided by the small measures in which retailers sell these liquors, will scarcely be perceived, and which, though it may enrich the government, will not impoverish the people, except by destroying their health, and enervating their limbs.

The tax, my lords, even supposing it paid without any method of evasion, is so low, that in a quarter of a pint, the quantity which the lower people usually demand at once, it does not amount to any denomination of money; and so small an addition will be easily overbalanced by the sale of a larger quantity than formerly; for it cannot be doubted but the practice which prevailed in opposition to the law, will grow yet more predominant by its encouragement; and that, therefore, the advantage of a large and quick sale, will lessen the price more than so slight a tax can possibly increase it.

The noble duke has endeavoured to reduce us to difficulties, by urging, that since the corruption of the people cannot be greater, we ought willingly to agree to any law, of which the title declares that it is intended to produce a reformation, because the worst that can be feared is, that it may be without effect.

But, my lords, such is the enormous absurdity of this bill, that no plea can be offered for it with the least appearance of reason; and the greatest abilities, when they are exerted in its defence, are able only to show, by fruitless efforts, that it cannot be vindicated. If the state of the nation be really such as has been supposed, if the most detestable and odious vice has overspread the kingdom to its utmost limits, if the people are universally abandoned to drunkenness, sloth, and villany, what can be more absurd than to trifle with doubtful experiments, and to make laws which must be suspected of inefficacy? In the diseases of the state, as in those of the body, the force of the remedy ought to be proportioned to the strength and danger of the disease; and surely no political malady can be more formidable than the prevalence of wickedness, nor can any time require more firmness, vigilance, and activity, in the legislative power.

That the law, therefore, may be without effect, is, in the present state of corruption, if it has been truly represented, a sufficient reason for rejecting it, without allowing it to be committed; because there is now no time for indulgence, or for delays; a nation universally corrupt, must be speedily reformed, or speedily ruined. Those habits which have been confessed to be already too powerful for the laws now in being, may in a short time be absolutely irresistible; and that licentiousness which intimidates the officers of justice, may in another year insult the legislature.

But, my lords, I am yet willing to hope that the noble duke's account of the wickedness of the people, was rather a rhetorical exaggeration, uttered in the ardour of dispute, than a strict assertion of facts; and am of opinion that, though vice has, indeed, of late spread its contagion with great rapidity, there are yet great numbers uninfected, and cannot believe that our condition is such as that nothing can make it more miserable.

In many parts of the country, my lords, these liquors have not yet been much used, nor is it likely that those who have never sold them, when the law allowed them, will begin an unnecessary trade, when it will expose them to penalties. But a new law in favour of spirits will produce a general inclination, and a kind of emulation will incite every one to take a license for the retail of this new liquor; and so every part of the kingdom will be equally debauched, and no place will be without a vender of statutable poison. The luxury of the vulgar, for luxury, in my opinion, it may very properly be called, will still increase, and vices and diseases will increase with it.

There is at least one part of the nation yet untainted, a part which deserves the utmost care of the legislature, and which must be endangered by a law like this before us. The children, my lords, to whom the affairs of the present generation must be transferred, and by whom the nation must be continued, are surely no ignoble part of the publick. They are yet innocent, and it is our province to take care that they may in time be virtuous; we ought, therefore, to remove from before them those examples that may infect, and those temptations that may corrupt them. We ought to reform their parents, lest they should imitate them; and to destroy those provocatives to vice, by which the present generation has been intoxicated, lest they should with equal force operate upon the next.

There is, therefore, no occasion, my lords, for any farther deliberation upon this bill; which, if the nation be yet in any part untainted, will infect it; and if it be universally corrupted, will have no tendency to amend it; and which we ought, for these reasons to reject, that our abhorrence of vice may be publickly known, and that no part of the calamities which wickedness must produce, may be imputed to us.

Lord DELAWARE then spoke to the following effect:—My lords, as I am entirely of opinion that a more accurate examination of this bill will evince its usefulness and propriety to many of the lords who are now most ardent in opposing it, I cannot but think it necessary to consider it in a committee.

It is to be remembered, my lords, that this bill is intended for two purposes of very great importance to the publick; it is designed that the liberties of mankind shall be secured by the same provisions by which the vices of our own people are to be reclaimed, and supplies for carrying on the war shall be raised by a reformation of the manners of the people.

This, my lords, is surely a great and generous design; this is a complication of publick benefits, worthy the most exalted virtue, and the most refined policy; and though a bill in which views so distant are to be reconciled, should appear not to be absolutely perfect, it must yet be allowed to deserve regard; nor ought we to reject, without very cautious deliberation, any probable method of reforming the nation, or any easy way of raising supplies.

The encroachment of usurpation without, and the prevalence of vice within, is a conjunction of circumstances very dangerous; and to remove both by the same means, is an undertaking that surely cannot deserve either censure or contempt: if it succeeds, it may demand the loudest acclamations; and if it fails, must be at least approved.

The use, my lords, of spirituous liquors, though in the excess now so frequently to be observed, undoubtedly detrimental to multitudes, is not, in a proper degree, either criminal or unwholesome; and, therefore, ought not to be prohibited by a tax so heavy as has been proposed by a noble lord, who, if he pursues his reasoning, must propose to tax in the same proportion every other liquor that can administer to vice.

It is, however, certain, that too much is wasted in riot and debauchery; and that, therefore, some addition to the price of this liquor ought to be made, that, though the use of it may be continued, the excess may be restrained.

What will be the effects of this bill, and whether either of these benefits are to be expected from it, can be known only by an impartial examination; and therefore it ought to be discussed with that accuracy which is peculiar to a committee.

Lord LONSDALE here got up again, and spoke to this purpose:—My lords, that a bill which shall restrain the excess of drinking distilled liquors without hindering their moderate use, will deserve the applause of every lover of his country, I cannot deny; but that any such bill can be contrived, may very justly be doubted; for in proportion to their price they will always be used, and nothing can hinder excess but a high tax, such as I have already proposed.

The bill now before us, my lords, will, indeed, by no means obstruct the moderate use, because it will give an unbounded license to the most luxurious excess; if, therefore, nothing more be intended in the committee, than to consider how far this bill will promote the reformation of the people, it is surely not necessary to engage in any farther inquiries.

It has appeared already, to those who do not obstinately shut their eyes, that there is in it no provision for the prevention of that abuse of spirits which universally prevails. It has appeared, that the cheapness of licenses will not hinder the present retailers from carrying on an illegal trade; that information will not now be more safe or more frequent than before, and that the duty, if not in part evaded, may yet be probably abated from the present profits of the sale.

It has appeared, my lords, that no effect can be produced by this bill but the promotion of debauchery, the increase of drunkenness, the subversion of order, and the decay of industry; the miseries of disease, and the rage of want.

But that this bill will not produce, at least for some time, a large addition to the publick revenues, has not yet been proved; and while it is allowed that it will raise money, I do not wonder to hear it steadily defended, because nothing more is expected from it. But as I have not yet conversed enough with statesmen to persuade myself that the government ought to be supported by means contrary to the end for which government is instituted, I am still convinced that this bill ought to be rejected with contempt, because it will lessen the wealth of the nation without any equivalent advantage, and will at once impoverish the people, and corrupt them.

Lord ISLAY then spoke to this effect:—My lords, I cannot but be of opinion that this debate has been carried on with a vehemence by no means necessary, and that the question has been perplexed by a mistaken zeal, that the effects of this bill have been exaggerated, perhaps, on both sides, and that the opinions which have been formed with relation to it, are not really so opposite as they appear.

Those who oppose the bill, think the duty upon spirits not so high as to hinder that debauchery which so much prevails among us; and those that vindicate it, declare that more violent restraints will not be borne. Both parties have reason, and the vindicators of the bill have, likewise, experience on their side.

But, my lords, though severe restraints suddenly opposed to the habits and inclinations of the people, operating in their full force, may be broken through by restless struggles and obstinate resistance, yet a diminution of those gratifications will be borne which cannot wholly be taken away, and the same laws, introduced by proper degrees, will be patiently obeyed; this, therefore, may be very properly considered as the first tax necessary to be laid, which, though it may produce no great effects in itself, may at least make way for a second that shall be more sensibly felt, till at length these fatal spirits shall be raised to a price at which few will be able, and none willing, to purchase one pleasure of drunkenness.

But it is not impossible that even this tax, with the other provisions in the bill, may produce the reformation which is unanimously desired; and as violence should never be used till gentle methods have been tried, this bill ought, in my opinion, to be passed, and, therefore, to be referred to a committee without farther debate; for it will be thought, both by our allies and our enemies, that a great part of this assembly is very indifferent about the success of the war, if we delay the supplies, by disputing in what manner they shall be raised.

[The question being then put, whether the bill shall be committed, it was carried in the affirmative. And the lords DELAWARE and HERVEY being appointed tellers, the numbers were, Contents 59, Proxies 23—82. Not contents 38, Proxies 16—54.

It was remarked on this occasion, that there being ten prelates in the house, they all divided against the question; upon which the earl of CHESTERFIELD seeing them come towards him, said, he doubted if he had not mistaken the side, not having had the honour of their company for many years.

Two days after, the same bill was considered by the house of lords in a committee to which all of them were summoned, and occasioned another very important and curious debate.]

FEBRUARY 23, 1742-3.

The title of the bill on spirituous liquors being read, was postponed: then the preamble was read, importing, "that whereas great difficulties and inconveniencies had attended the putting the act 9 Geo. II. in execution, and the same had not been found effectual to answer the purposes intended," the commons being desirous to raise the necessary supplies in the easiest manner, do grant the rates on spirituous liquors, hereafter mentioned, and repeal the present rates.

Lord HERVEY spoke to the effect following:—My lords, notwithstanding the specious arguments which were used to influence the house to permit this bill to escape the censure it deserved, and be admitted to a farther examination in a committee, I am still confident that nothing can justly be offered in its defence; and am not afraid to declare my opinion, that it is not approved even by those who vindicate it; of whom I cannot but believe, from long experience of their judgment and their knowledge, that they consider it only as an easy manner of raising money, as an expedient rather necessary than eligible, and such as only the exigencies of the government could have prevailed upon them to propose; for nothing is more evident, than that it cannot answer the purposes of the former bill.

This, however harsh it may appear, and however inconsistent with that delicacy with which the debates of this august assembly have generally been carried on, must surely be pardoned on this occasion, if for no other reason, at least for this, that it is not easy to forbear it, it is impossible wholly to suppress it in the mind; and to forbear to speak what cannot but be thought, is no part of the duty of a publick counsellor.

The conduct of those whose station subjects them to the resentment of the ministry, or who may be reasonably imagined to expect favours from them, has, throughout all our deliberations on this bill, been such as evidently discovers their only care to be the imposition of a new tax, and the establishment of a new fund. They do not seem to urge seriously any other argument than the necessity of raising money, or to oppose the objections that have been offered, for any other reason, than because they have a tendency to obstruct the supplies.

No other argument can, indeed, be urged in vindication of a bill which every principle of policy or justice must incite us to condemn; a bill by which the sense of morality and religion will be extinguished, and the restraints, of law made ineffectual; by which the labourer and manufacturer will be at once debilitated and corrupted, and by which the roads will be filled with thieves, and the streets with beggars.

It appears, my lords, from the papers on the table, that seven millions of gallons are every year distilled; and experience shows us, that the quality of the liquor is such, that a quarter of a pint is sufficient to intoxicate the brain. Upon this computation, my lords, it is reasonable to believe, that a twentieth part of the labouring hands of this nation are detained from their proper occupations by this kind of drunkenness; and, consequently, that a twentieth part of the trade is every year lost, or, perhaps, a twentieth part of our people every year hurried to the grave, or disabled from contributing to the publick good.

These, my lords, are no doubtful facts, or conjectural calculations, they are confirmed by the most incontestable evidence, and established by all the demonstration of arithmetick; and therefore your lordships are in no danger of errour from either ignorance or uncertainty, but must determine, if you approve this bill, in opposition to all the powers of conviction, and must set aside testimony and reason at the same time.

These facts, my lords, are so plain, that the warmest advocates for the bill have tacitly acknowledged them, by proposing that, if it be found ineffectual, it shall be amended in the next session. What effect this proposal may have upon others, I know not; but for my part, I shall never think it allowable to sport with the prosperity of the publick, or to try experiments by which, if they fail, the lives of thousands must be destroyed.

Such a scheme, my lords, very ill becomes those to whom their ancestors have transmitted the illustrious character of guardians of the people; for surely such cruelty was never practised by the utmost wantonness of tyranny, or the most savage rage of invasion. No man ever before conceived the design of scattering poison for a certain period of time among the people, only to try what havock it would make.

What will be the effects of unrestrained and licensed debauchery may be known, without the guilt of so dreadful an experiment, only by observing the present conduct of the people, even while they are hindered from the full enjoyment of their pleasures, by the terrours of a penal law. Whoever shall be so far touched with the interest of the publick, as to extend his inquiries to the lowest classes of the people, will find some diseased, and others vitiated; he will find some imprisoned by their creditors, and others starving their children; and if he traces all these calamities and crimes to their original cause, will find them all to proceed from the love of distilled liquors.

I know, my lords, that in answer to all these expostulations, and a thousand more, it will be urged by the ministers and their friends, that there is no other method to be found of raising the supplies, and that the demands of the government must be satisfied at whatever rate, and by whatever means.

Though I am very far from approving this assertion, I do not wonder at its prevalence among those who are enriched by every tax, and whose only claim to the preferments which they enjoy arises from their readiness to concur in every scheme for increasing the burdens of the publick; and, therefore, shall never expect their approbation of any proposal, by which a new tax may be retarded. Yet I cannot but declare that, in my opinion, we ought to suspend our proceedings, that the commons may discover what danger their negligence, precipitation, or blind compliance, has brought upon the nation; and that the people may, by so signal a proof of our disapprobation, be alarmed against any attempt of the same kind under any future administration.

This, my lords, will be considered, not only by posterity, but by all the wise and honest men of the present time, as a proof of our regard for virtue, and our attention to the publick welfare. This conduct will be secretly approved, even by those who may think themselves obliged to oppose it in publick; and, as it will be moderate and decent, may probably preserve the nation without irritating the other house.

I therefore move, my lords, that instead of proceeding in the superfluous forms of a committee, we should resume the house, and endeavour to obtain farther information.

After a short silence, lord CHOLMONDELEY spoke to this effect:—My lords, the observations which, though sufficiently explained and enforced in the late debate, the noble lord has been pleased to repeat on this occasion, are in themselves, indeed, sufficiently pertinent, and have been urged by his lordship with uncommon spirit and elegance; but he ought to have reflected, that general declamations are improper in a committee, where the particular clauses of the bill are to be separately considered.

I propose, therefore, that instead of wasting that time, of which the exigencies of the publick now require an uncommon frugality, in useless rhetorick, and untimely vehemence, we should proceed to examine in order the distinct paragraphs of this bill, by which it may more easily appear, whether it ought to be rejected or approved.

It cannot, indeed, be proposed, that any of the clauses shall be amended in this committee; for the claims of the commons, and the obstinacy with which they have always adhered to them, on whatever they are founded, is well known. I am old enough to remember the animosities which have arisen between the two houses, from attempts to adjust this part of their pretensions; animosities which at this time may be not only dangerous to ourselves, but fatal to a great part of mankind, and which it ought, therefore, to be our utmost care not to excite.

Lord AYLESFORD:—My lords, though the consideration of the distinct paragraphs of the bill be, as the noble lord has very justly observed, the proper business of the committee; yet since, as he has likewise observed, the present state of our affairs requires unusual expedition, I think we may very properly spare ourselves the trouble of considering paragraphs which we cannot amend; and which are in themselves so clear and so obvious, that they may be understood in their full extent upon a cursory perusal.

But, my lords, though I think it not proper to follow our usual method of considering the paragraphs distinctly, which can only drive the bill forward towards the third reading, as it has already been forced into the committee; yet I think it not necessary to irritate the other house, alarm our allies, or encourage our enemies, by rejecting that bill by which it is intended that the supplies shall be raised. There is an easy and moderate method, by which the same end may be attained without any disturbance of the publick, any impediment of the schemes of the government, or any just offence to the commons.

Instead of passing or rejecting this bill, of which the first is absolutely criminal, and the second perhaps improper, let us only delay it, by which we shall give the commons time to reflect upon it, to reexamine it, and discover, what they, perhaps, have not hitherto suspected, its destructive tendency. Nor can it be doubted, but the observations which will arise from the necessity of inquiring into the reasons of our conduct, will soon induce them to form another bill, not liable to the same objections; I, therefore, second the noble lord's motion to resume the house.

Lord ISLAY:—My lords, if we consider the pretensions of the commons, and the stubbornness with which they have hitherto adhered to them, we shall easily find the impropriety of the noble lord's motion, and foresee the inefficacy of the methods which he so warmly recommends.

The alarm which he supposes us to give the commons by postponing the bill before us, the observations which they will make upon our conduct, the new informations which they will receive, and the new bill which they will send, are merely imaginary. They will not consider themselves as concerned in the delay or expedition of our procedure, but will suppose us to act upon our own reasons, which it is not necessary for them to examine, and will by no means send another bill for supplies, till they are informed that this is rejected.

Thus, my lords, we shall only retard the supplies, without altering, or being able to alter, the method of raising them; and at last pass that bill, without examination, which we now neglect to examine, lest we should pass it; or, perhaps, irritate the commons by the novelty of our conduct, which, if they should resolve to consider it, they will probably consider only to censure.

Lord AYLESPORD:—My lords, I am no stranger to the claims of the commons to the sole and independent right of forming money bills, nor to the heat with which that claim has been asserted, or the firmness with which it has always been maintained in late senates. Nor am I ignorant, that by contesting this claim, we have sometimes excited disputes, which nothing but a prorogation of the senate could appease.

I know, my lords, and allow, that by acting in any unusual manner with regard to bills of this kind, we may excite the resentment of the commons, and that some interruption of the publick business may, for want of candour and moderation, possibly ensue.

But, my lords, I cannot think the possibility of an ill consequence an argument sufficient to show the unreasonableness of my proposal; for the inconveniencies that may arise from postponing the bill, are only possible, but the calamities that we shall bring upon our country by passing it are certain.

But we are likewise to consider, my lords, that these events, of which it can only be said that they may happen, may also not happen. When I reflect that the house of commons is an assembly of reasonable beings, that it is filled by the representatives of the British people, by men who will share the calamities of the publick, and whose interest it is, equally with ours, to prevent the destruction of our commerce, the decay of our manufactures, the corruption of the present age, and the ruin of posterity, I cannot but hope that they will apply themselves to a candid review of the bill which they have sent, and without heat, jealousy, or disputes, explain it as they may do by another, which will be no deviation from the rules which they have established for themselves, and by which they may secure the happiness of their country without receding from their own pretensions.

The duke of BEDFORD:—My lords, the proposal made by the noble lord appears to me so prudent and equitable, so moderate and so seasonable, and, in my opinion, suggests so easy a method of reconciling the pretensions of the commons with the necessity of amending the bill, that I cannot but think it worthy of the unanimous approbation of your lordships.

I am very far from conceiving the commons to be an assembly of men deaf to reason, or imagining them so void of all regard for the happiness of the publick, as that they will sacrifice it to an obstinate adherence to claims which they cannot but know to be in themselves disputable, and of which they must at least allow that they are only so far just as they contribute to the great end of government, the general good.

But lest they should, by any perverse and unseasonable obstinacy, attend more to the preservation of their own power than to the promotion of the happiness of their constituents, a method is now proposed, by which the errours of this bill may be corrected, without any concession of either house. The commons may easily be informed of the dangers which are justly dreaded from this bill; and may, therefore, prepare another, by which a tax of the same kind may be laid, without a general license of drunkenness; or if a method of laying a duty upon these liquors, which may at once hinder their excessive use, and increase the revenue of the government, cannot be discovered, they may raise the supplies for the year by some other scheme.

Lord CARTERET:—My lords, as the expedient proposed by these noble lords, however it may be recommended, as being at once moderate and efficacious, has, in reality, no other tendency than to procure an absolute rejection of this bill, it is proper to consider the consequences which may be reasonably expected from the measures which they have hitherto proposed.

In order to the effectual restraint of the common people from the use of these pernicious liquors, they assert the necessity of imposing a very large duty to be paid by the distiller, which might, indeed, produce, in some degree, the effect which they expect from it, but would produce it by giving rise to innumerable frauds and inconveniencies.

The immediate consequence of a heavy duty would be the ruin of our distillery, which is now a very extensive and profitable trade, in which great multitudes are employed, who must instantly, upon the cessation of it, sink into poverty. Our stills, my lords, not only supply our natives with liquors, which they used formerly to purchase from foreign countries, and therefore increase, or at least preserve the wealth of our country; but they likewise furnish large quantities for exportation to Guernsey, Jersey, and other places. But no sooner will the duty proposed to be laid upon this liquor take place, than all this trade will be at an end, and those who now follow it will be reduced to support themselves by other employments; and those countries in which our spirits are now drank will be soon supplied from other nations with liquors at once cheaper and more pleasant.

It may be proposed, as an expedient for the preservation of our foreign trade, that the duty shall be repaid upon exportation; but the event of this provision, my lords, will be, that great quantities will be sent to sea for the sake of obtaining a repayment of the duty, which, instead of being sold to foreigners, will be privately landed again upon our own coasts.

Thus, my lords, will the duty be collected, and afterwards repaid; and the government will suffer the odium of imposing a severe tax, and incur the expense of employing a great number of officers, without any advantage to the publick. Spirits will, in many parts of the kingdom, be very little dearer than at present, and drunkenness and debauchery will still prevail.

That these arts, and a thousand others, will be practised by the people to obtain this infatuating liquor, cannot be doubted. It cannot be imagined that they will forbear frauds, who have had recourse to violence, or that those will not endeavour to elude the government, who have already defied it.

Every rigorous law will be either secretly evaded, or openly violated; every severe restraint will be shaken off, either by artifice or vice; nor can this vice, however dangerous or prevalent, be corrected but by slow degrees, by straitening the reins of government imperceptibly, and by superadding a second slight restraint, after the nation has been for some time habituated to the first.

That the government proceeds by these easy and gentle methods of reformation, ought not to be imputed to negligence, but necessity; for so far has the government been from any connivance at this vice, that an armed force was necessary to support the laws which were made to restrain it, and secure the chief persons of the state from the insults of the populace, whom they had only provoked by denying them this pernicious liquor.

Since, therefore, my lords, all opposition to this predominant inclination has appeared without effect, since the government evidently wants power to conquer the united and incessant struggles for the liberty of drunkenness, what remains but that this vice should produce some advantage to the publick, in return for the innumerable evils which arise from it, and that the government should snatch the first opportunity of taxing that vice which cannot be reformed?

This duty arises, indeed, from a concurrence of different causes, of just designs in the government, and of bad inclinations in the people. The tax is just, and well meant; but it can be made sufficient to support the expenses to which it is appropriated, only by the resolution of the populace to continue, in some degree, their usual luxury.

I am far, my lords, from thinking this method of raising money eligible for its own sake, or justifiable by any other plea than that of necessity. If it were possible at once to extinguish the thirst of spirits, no man who had any regard for virtue, or for happiness, would propose to augment the revenue by a tax upon them.

But, my lords, rigour has been already tried, and found to be vain; it has been found equally fruitless to forbid the people to use spirits, as to forbid a man in a dropsy to drink. The force of appetite long indulged, and by indulgence made superiour to the control of reason, is not to be overcome at once; it cannot be subdued by a single effort, but may be weakened; new habits of a more innocent kind may in time be superinduced, and one desire may counterbalance another.

We must endeavour, my lords, by just degrees, to withdraw their affections from this pernicious enjoyment, by making the attainment of it every year somewhat more difficult: but we must not quicken their wishes, and exasperate their resentment, by depriving them at once of their whole felicity. By this method, my lords, I doubt not but we shall obtain what we have hitherto endeavoured with so little success; and I believe that though, in open defiance of a severe law, spirits are now sold in every street of this city, a gentle restraint will, in a short time, divert the minds of the people to other entertainments, and the vice of drinking spirits will be forgotten among us.

Lord HERVEY then rose up again, and spoke to the effect following:—My lords, though I have always considered this bill as at once wicked and absurd, I imagined till now that the projectors of it would have been able to have argued, at least, speciously, though not solidly, in defence of it; nor did I imagine it to have been wholly indefensible, till I discovered how little the extensive knowledge, the long experience, and the penetrating foresight of the noble lord who spoke last, enabled him to produce in vindication of it.

His lordship's argument is reducible to this single assertion, that the drinking distilled liquors cannot be prevented; and from thence he drew this inference, that since it is a point of wisdom to turn misfortunes to advantage, we ought to contrive methods by which the debauchery of the people may enrich the government.

Though we should suppose the assertion true in any sense below that of absolute physical impossibility, the inference is by no means just; since it is the duty of governours to struggle against vice, and promote virtue with incessant assiduity, notwithstanding the difficulties that may for a time hinder the wisest and most rigorous measures from success. That governour who desists from his endeavours of reformation, because they have been once baffled, in reality abandons his station and deserts his charge, nor deserves any other character than that of laziness, negligence, or cowardice.

The preservation of virtue where it subsists, and the recovery of it where it is lost, are the only valuable purposes of government. Laws which do not promote these ends are useless, and those that obviate them are pernicious. The government that takes advantage of wicked inclinations, by accident predominant in the people, and, for any temporary convenience, instead of leading them back to virtue, plunges them deeper into vice, is no longer a sacred institution, because it is no longer a benefit to society. It is from that time a system of wickedness, in which bad ends are promoted by bad means, and one crime operates in subordination to another.

But, my lords, it is not necessary to show the unreasonableness of the inference, because the assertion from which it is deduced cannot be proved. That the excessive use of distilled liquors cannot be prevented, is a very daring paradox, not only contrary to the experience of all past times, but of the present; for the law which is now to be repealed, did in a great degree produce the effects desired from it, till the execution of it was suspended, not by the inability of the magistrates, or obstinacy of the people, but by the artifice of ministers, who promoted the sale of spirits secretly, for the same reason which incites our present more daring politicians to establish the use of them by a law.

The defects of this law, for that it was defective cannot be denied, were in the manner of levying the duty; for had half the duty that was demanded from the unlicensed retailers, been required from the distiller, there had been no need of informations; nor had we been stunned with the dismal accounts of the rage and cruelty of the people, or the violent deaths of those who endeavoured to grow rich by commencing prosecutions. The duty had been regularly paid, the liquors had been made too dear for common use, and the name of spirits had been in a short time forgotten amongst us.

From this defect, my lords, arose all the difficulties and inconveniencies that have impeded the execution of the law, and prevented the effects that were expected from it, and by one amendment they might be all removed.