Chapter XIX · (continued 2)

Commissioner Kernan: "No, I am not on the stand. I may be some day and then you can question me."

Mr. St. John: "When a neighbor's house burns we all unite to fight the blaze. When an assault is made on all the roads, they unite to resist it."

When General Manager St. John resumed the witness stand, he had with him one of the twenty-six sets of books mentioned by Mr. Howard, containing the scale of wages and rules of employment of all classes of railway employes on the roads represented in the General Managers' Association. When questioned by Commissioner Kernan he admitted that a committee had been appointed to formulate from these a schedule of what was a fair rate of wages for all classes of employes and uniform rules of employment. That committee reported, but the report was never acted on. This committee was appointed under a resolution passed February 15, 1894. Its report was made in March, and if adopted would have affected 125,000 men at least. One or two roads, he admitted, might have reduced wages about this time, but there was no agreement with the other roads concerning it. It became known that Mr. Wright, chairman of the commission, had an annual Pullman pass. He said concerning it that he and Mr. Pullman had been personal friends for several years, and it was to him as a personal friend that the pass was given several years ago and had been renewed annually since. He deemed that it was for the glowing reports of Pullman, made by Mr. Wright and others in 1884, for he did not know Mr. Pullman then. He said that he had not used it since the appointment of the commission.

Following Mr. St. John, John M. Eagan took the stand.

Mr. Eagan admitted that as the manager of the General Managers' Association he was authorized to incur any expense to secure force to crush the strike, but was not authorized to do anything to settle it peaceably. Of his connection with the General Managers' Association he said that he was requested to take charge of the association during the strike.

Commissioner Worthington: "Did you have anything done in relation to the appointment of deputy marshals?"

Mr. Eagan: "Each road appointed an official to select the men they wanted to act as deputy marshalls and turned 'em over to me. I sent them to Arnold to be sworn."

Commissioner Worthington: "Did those men serve as employes of the road while acting as marshals?"

Mr. Eagan: "My judgment is that they were to take care of the interests of the roads."

Commissioner Worthington: "Did they act in the double capacity as marshals and as railroad employes? That is, would an engineer, for instance, while wearing a star showing his authority, run an engine for the road?"

Mr. Eagan: "I believe they did that. They were sworn in as deputy marshals to give them a chance to protect themselves."

Commissioner Worthington: "By whom were the deputy marshals to be paid or by whom will they be paid?"

Mr. Eagan: "Each road is supposed to pay its own men."

Commissioner Worthington: "What do you know of any efforts made by the officers of the American Railway Union or the city officials to settle the strike amicably?"

Mr. Egan: "A party named McGillen, Alderman McGillen, I think, told me that Howard and Debs wanted a conference with me about settling the strike. I told him I had no authority to confer with them."

Commissioner Worthington: "Did you not have authority to talk with them and find out what they wanted or could do, without making any agreement with them?"

Mr. Eagan: "Not with those parties—I did not think I had. A few days later I found the mayor and Mr. McGillen in the office of the General Managers' Association. They said they had come with a letter from Debs, Howard and Kelliher. I told the mayor he ought not to make a messenger boy of himself for these parties of the American Railway Union. Later I was given the document to give to the mayor. He was at Kensington, so I left it with the chief of police, and wrote a letter telling him I could not receive the letter he had brought."

Commissioner Worthington: "Were any other overtures of settlement made to you?"

Mr. Eagan: "That's all I know of any overtures."

Commissioner Worthington: "Was there anything insulting or offensive in the language of the letter the mayor brought you that made you refuse to receive it?"

Mr. Eagan: "The letter was published that evening and next morning and speaks for itself."

Commissioner Worthington: "I am asking you how you regarded it. Did you consider that there was anything insulting or offensive in the letter?"

Mr. Eagan: "I considered that any parties that had fought railroads as they had and been beaten as I believe they have been had lots of cheek to dictate the terms of their surrender."

Commissioner Worthington: "You do not answer my question. Were there not soldiers, U. S. marshals, deputy sheriffs and policemen engaged in guarding the railroads, and were you not hindered in the operation of the roads?"

Mr. Eagan: "Yes."

Commissioner Worthington: "Now was not the letter courteously composed and looking to a settlement of the difficulty?"

Mr. Eagan: "We didn't need a settlement—we had 'em already."

Commissioner Worthington: "The soldiers, marshals, sheriffs and police remained on duty sometime after that—didn't they?"

Mr. Eagan: "Yes, we needed the soldiers to protect our property."

Commissioner Worthington: "If a settlement could have been reached at that time between the railroads and the strikers, couldn't the soldiers and marshals have been dismissed. They wouldn't have been needed after an amicable settlement had been reached, would they?"

Mr. Eagan: "It was their intention not to recognize the American Railway Union."

Commissioner Worthington: "Then it is true is it that the reason this communication was not received was not because it was not courteously worded or because it was discourteous or insulting but because the General Managers would not recognize the American Railway Union?"

Mr. Eagan: "Well, that's as I understood it." Commissioner Worthington: "What would have been out of the way in your talking with Debs and Howard when they asked a conference with you?"

Mr. Eagan: "I didn't have any authority to talk to them."

Commissioner Worthington: "Then your authority extended to this. You had authority to contract at the expense of the railroad for all the force necessary to crush the strike but had no authority to settle it by peaceful means?"

Mr. Eagan, "Well, yes. I suppose so."

Commissioner Worthington: "When you rebuked the mayor did you think it derogatory to bear a respectful message looking to a peaceful settlement of the difficulty?"

Mr. Eagan: "I believed the American Railway Union was whipped at that time."

Commissioner Worthington: "It was then the condition and not the character of the men that signed the document that made you refuse to receive it?"

Mr. Eagan: "We believed we had the strike won."

Commissioner Worthington: "Did you ever try to use anything but force to settle the difficulty?"

Mr. Eagan: "None, except to the different parties that came to see me, men that I knew personally had quit work. I told them to go back to work." In regard to violence Mr. Eagan knew nothing about it personally, but assumed that the strikers did it.

Superintendent Dunlap, of the Rock Island, was asked if he recognized any of the ex-employes among the rioters, and said that he did not know many of the men but was sure that they were present. He was also asked by Mr. Wright if he knew one John T. Norton to which he answered no.

Superintendent of Police, Michael Brennan, was next examined. He testified that but a small per cent of the rioting was done by strikers.

John T. Norton, a locomotive engineer, was next called to the stand and testified that he was employed on the Illinois Central road prior to the strike, and had since obtained a position on the Calumet & Blue Island.

This line uses the Rock Island track to Joliet. He said that he passed an examination on the C. & B. I. and also on the Rock Island. He had made one trip when informed that the Rock Island road had barred him and would not allow him to run over any part of their line. He consulted a lawyer and was told to see Superintendent Dunlap. He called on him in company with a friend named Fraser. He asked Mr. Dunlap if he was barred off the Rock Island, who said yes, and he then saw that he was blacklisted.

Mr. Kernan: "Do you call that evidence of a blacklist?"

Mr. Norton: "I do. After getting a letter from Superintendent Conlin I was barred out by Superintendent Dunlap who has just sworn he did not know me."

Mr. Kernan: "Can you produce Mr. Fraser. We would like to hear his testimony?"

Mr. Norton: "I will."

Mr. Kernan: "Were you concerned in any violence during the strike?"

Mr. Norton: "No."

Mr. Kernan: "Are you an officer of the American Railway Union?"

Mr. Norton: "Yes. I am president of local union No. 193."

Mr. Gompers of the American Federation of Labor was next examined but refused to be sworn. Mr. Gompers went into the labor question in a general way. In reference to strikes, he said that so long as the present industrial and commercial systems last, so long will strikes continue.

George M. Pullman, president of the Pullman company, was now before the commissioners. He submitted a lengthy statement in relation to the town of Pullman, and under examination he told of the increase of the Palace Car company from $1,000,000 to $36,000,000 and the accumulation of a cash surplus of $25,000,000. When questioned concerning the grievance of the employes, he was not so well posted. When asked by Mr. Wright if it was the practice of the company to reduce wages from time to time, he said:

"I am not familiar with the details of the manufacturing department and must refer you to the second vice-president."

Mr. Worthington: "Did you ever express any unwillingness to arbitrate?"

Mr. Pullman: "I did express unwillingness and refer you to my published statements. I was aware of the losses of the company in paying the wages it did when contract prices were so low, and I knew it was impossible for the company to pay a higher scale. It was a question whether the shops should be closed, or secure work at a low figure. It was the principle involved in letting a third party determine how the company should transact its business."

Mr. Worthington: "But you paid the usual dividend of eight per cent last year?"

Mr. Pullman: "Yes. But the profit during the World's Fair helped out the amount."

Mr. Worthington: "Now don't you think that the Pullman corporation which paid a dividend of $2,800,000 for the year just ended should have borne with the employes and shared its profits to some extent?"

Mr. Pullman: "I don't see why we should take the money from the stockholders to pay a set of men higher wages because the manufacturing business paid well, to pay this money to men working at Pullman when the employes at Ludlow, Wilmington and St. Louis had no complaint to make. The efforts of the American Railway Union to call a strike there was a failure."

Mr. Worthington: "Has the Pullman Company ever voluntarily raised wages?"

Mr. Pullman: "No; but it always has paid fair wages."

Mr. Worthington: "Now, Mr. Pullman, when you see the present unrest of labor, and the possible consequences, what objection had you to distributing a portion of the profits or increasing wages a little?"

Mr. Pullman: "The reason is embodied in my statement, it is a matter of opinion, and then there is the principle involved. It is impossible under the circumstances."

Mr. Worthington: "Impossible, what is impossible? Could not arbitration determine the principle involved?"

Mr. Pullman: "As president of the company I do not care to give any other."

Mr. Worthington then introduced a lease used between the company and its tenants. This provided that the tenants should make all repairs to plumbing, water pipes, gas, etc., and to surrender premises in good repair. When such repairs were made by the company, the amount was deducted from their salaries.

Mr. Worthington: "Now, the company does not make any repairs, does it?"

Mr. Pullman: "The company repairs the roofs or outside of the houses, I am not familiar with the details."

Mr. Worthington: "But by the lease the tenants are bound to make all the repairs, it is stipulated that the tenant shall repay the company for all repairs made."

Mr. Pullman: "I will have to refer you to some official of the company." (Laughter.)

Mr. Worthington: "The rent is deducted monthly, is it not?"

Mr. Pullman: "I am unable myself to identify that lease you handed me."

Mr. Pullman concluded with the statement that the company declined to employ any member of the American Railway Union.

Mr. Worthington again asked if the company could not afford to pay an increased scale of wages and this Mr. Pullman refused.

Mr. Kernan: "When the general cut in salaries was made, was your salary reduced?"

Mr. Pullman: "No." (Laughter.)

Mr. Kernan: "That of officials, superintendents or foremen?"

Mr. Pullman: "No."

Mr. Wickes then took the stand. His evidence—which in main was documentary—embraced every detail of the strike. He admitted having promised members of the grievance committee that they would not be discharged, and said the agreement had not been broken by him. From statistics presented by Mr. Wickes, he claimed that the average rate of wages paid for the year ending in April, 1893, was $2.63 per day and for the same succeeding period $2.03, which fact, he said, disproved of statements made by strikers.

In the case of Miss Jennie Curtis the books showed that her father had owed but $17.00 at the time of his death, which sum had never been repaid the company.

Blacklisting, he said, had never been practiced by the Pullman Company, although the foreman kept a list of discharged men. He also said that the company had been losing $500 per month by furnishing water. He said that the men were advised by Mr. Howard not to strike.

Referring to rent and wages, he did not consider that there was any connection between them. He said: "We paid the market price for labor and we asked the market price for houses." He contended that wages were regulated by the law of supply and demand. We go into the market to buy labor, as we go into the market to buy other things. If a manufacturer by reason of improved machinery, of special facilities, or greater ability in securing supplies or disposing of products, or by more effective handling of men, should be making larger profits than his competitors and should increase wages, he would deprive himself of all the benefits of these advantages which are his and to which his employes do not contribute, and would make no more than the manufacturer who conducted his business in a shiftless manner or without ability, energy or enterprise.

Mr. Wickes concluded his testimony, and Inspector Nicholas Hunt was called.

He testified that from June 27th, or the time his force was first called to protect railroad property at various points, up to July 3d, there had been no serious difficulty. When asked by Mr. Worthington if he had seen railroad men take part in the destruction of property. He replied:

"I have not seen one railroad man interfere in any way."

A. J. Sullivan, general manager of the Illinois Central, was next to testify.

He went into details concerning the trouble on his road. He was certain that the acts of violence were committed by the strikers although he did not witness it personally.

H. R. Saunders, general yardmaster for the Rock Island, testified for the company in relation to the way the strike was ordered on the Rock Island. He charged that Mr. Howard, vice-president of the American Railway Union, with using abusive and violent language. Epithets applied to Pullman and the expression, "if scabs take your places kill them with a coupling pin," was declared to have been used.

W. D. Fuller, agent for the Rock Island road at Blue Island, testified that he was present, and thought Mr. Howard's speech was very violent, he applied epithets to Pullman, thought he ought to be hanged, and that he (Howard) would like to head a crowd to do it.

L. A. Camp, a yardmaster for the Rock Island, was also at the meeting and heard no violent language used.

G. D. Cruelly also a yardmaster for the same road, thought the strike at Blue Island was due to Mr. Howard and Mr. Debs. Mr. Howard in particular and Mr. Debs incidentally. Mr. Howard was violent and abusive in his language. The witness is a member of the Order of Railway conductors but not of the American Railway Union.

Fred Baumbach testified to hearing both Debs and Howard speak, but did not remember of hearing either one of them using violent language.

Otto Moriling, a tailor, testified to being present. He did not hear any violent language used except that Mr. Howard applied an epithet to Pullman.

James Simmons also heard Howard speak, but did not hear him counsel violence.

Alexander Quasso said he was present when Howard spoke but heard no violence counseled except some reference by Mr. Howard to the justice of hanging Pullman.

Vice President Howard now took the stand and testified regarding his speech at Blue Island. He said:

"I want to begin by saying that among railroad men particularly trainmen, it has been a constant habit and practice and has been for years, to use a certain class of expressions which literally are very offensive in the lightest and most ordinary way, and without meaning anything in particular about them. Every old railroad man can bear me out in this. A railroad man will address his best friend with a most offensive epithet uttered in a most cordial way and intended to express cordiality, so that the term I applied to Pullman, has among railroad men a technical meaning, very broad it is true and expressing according to the circumstances very different sentiments. But its use is so common and I may say usual, that it has altogether lost the meaning it has, among others than railroad men.

"I was telling them the condition of things at Pullman. I told them of incidents that have been testified to before this commission. I was trying to array them against Pullman. I used the language of railroad men and I applied to Mr. Pullman the epithet I am charged with using. But I used it in the railroad sense. I said he ought to be hung, that is another railroad expression.

"I did not say that I would like to take part in the hanging or lead a party to hang him. As to the coupling pin expression, what I said at Blue Island, I have said at hundreds of other places, it was this I told them, it was often said that capital would always defeat labor. I denied this. I said that capital could only whip labor when it could divide it, and make labor defeat itself. That in the last few years a wave of religious intolerance had swept over this country, and the representatives of the railroads had taken advantage of it as a means of dividing labor. I gave instances where some emissary of the railroads would come in, and going to the protestant members, instill distrust in their minds of the Roman Catholic members, and then going to the Roman Catholics and creating distrust of the Protestants. I urged them not to allow themselves to be divided in the labor movement by questions of religious differences, and I said that if any of those sleuths, and I may have said sleuths of hell, come into this movement to array you against each other in a question of religion, I hope some one will have the nerve to hit him on the head with a round end coupling pin and send him to his last long sleep.

"I said nothing about injuring men who came to take their places. I told them if they struck, to put on their good clothes and keep away from the railroad property. If the railroads could get men to run their roads, let them, but if the men stood together, were united, the roads couldn't get men and would have to yield.

"Far from advising violence, I have always advised against it. I have some questions I would like the commission to put to the general managers, either here, or in Washington. They are these:

"1st. Were not the general managers whipped on July 5, before there had been any violence to array public opinion against the strikers, and before the troops were here and by their presence provoked violence?

"2d. Did your company have a contract with the government to carry the mails?

"3d. Was the contract dependent upon your ability to carry Pullmans?

"4th. Did your contract with the Pullman Company require you to refuse to transport mail if you left the Pullmans off?

"5th. Did the strikers interfere to prevent carrying of the mails if you left the Pullmans off?

"6th. Could you not have carried mails, if you did not insist in hauling Pullmans?

"7th. Was your contract with the government less binding on you than your contract with the Pullman Company, or was either dependent on the other?"

Mr. Kernan had no objection to the questions being put to the general managers, but did not think, under the circumstances, the commission could prolong its sitting in order to ask them.

Mayor John P. Hopkins was then called and cordially shook hands with the commissioners before taking the witness chair. His examination was conducted by Judge Worthington as follows:

Mr. Worthington: "As mayor of the city and the actual head of the police department, please state the general conduct of the police force during the strike and the conditions attending the strike."

Mr. Hopkins: "The evening of June 25, Mr. Ellsworth, who claimed to represent the different railroads, called on me and said he understood a boycott was to be enforced on all roads hauling Pullman cars. He said he understood I was going to Springfield that night and wished me to give instructions to the chief of police and arrange for the protection of the roads. So far as I know, the police did all the work required of them, and I have ample assurance of that fact from railway officials.

"This condition existed until July 5. That morning Mr. Wright of the Rock Island called at my office and claimed that riotous mobs were interfering with the operation of trains, overturning cars, etc. I went with him to the office of Mr. Cable of the Rock Island road, where we discussed the matter. Mr. Cable said he thought the police were not doing their duty, but from the information I had received, I was confident that such was not the case. I then suggested that Mr. Cable go with me to the scene of the alleged trouble, but he said that he did not think it safe to do so. I proposed the same plan to Mr. Wright, but he made the same objection. I then saw the corporation counsel and suggested the same plan, which he accepted. A switch engine was secured and we went. A crowd of probably 3,000 or 3,500 persons, mostly women and children, had assembled at that point. On the tracks at Thirty-seventh street four trains were standing, and just north of them an empty freight car was lying across the tracks. Half an hour after we arrived, a wrecking crew, accompanied by young Newell, Attorney Wright, and other officials came up, and they started to take the car off the track. On going down we had found the tracks entirely unobstructed, but on going back found ten or fifteen overturned cars. I thought the police did all they could to prevent such an occurrence. I stayed about two hours, when I came back and issued the proclamation to the people which was published. I also instructed the chief of police to suspend all officers who had been stationed at the crossings where the cars were overturned.

"That night I wired the governor at Springfield, that the militia, which had been preparing to go into camp there, had better be retained in the city, as it might be advisable to call out the troops within twenty-four hours. The same night about 10:30, I was at the Hyde Park police station when I heard that the "Diamond Special" had been stopped at Kensington and that large crowds had congregated there. Inspector Hunt sent re-inforcements to that point, and when I retired everything seemed quiet. Friday morning, July 6, which was the first time the railroads had intimated that the protection afforded them was inadequate, I heard from Kensington that there was trouble in the Rock Island and Chicago & Eastern Illinois roads. I then called on the governor for five regiments of the state militia. Saturday, at 3:30 P. M., some trouble occurred at Forty-seventh and Loomis streets, where a mob had collected. The state troops fired and killed one man, two others dying afterward. There was no trouble after that, so far as I know."

Mayor Hopkins then read a number of communications from railway officials expressing satisfaction in regard to the perfect protection afforded by the police during the strike. Among these were letters from President Marvin Hughitt of the Northwestern, General Superintendent Sullivan of the Illinois Central, President Thomas of the Chicago & Western Indiana, and others. Several officers who were deemed worthy of promotion for their good services at critical times were mentioned in a letter from a Santa Fe official. The mayor then continued his testimony as follows:

"So far as the management of the police was concerned I think it was excellent. I wish to state that the Blue Island police are governed by the officials of that town. The word police has been referred to indiscriminately in the testimony, leaving the impression that Blue Island was under the jurisdiction of the city.

"There was very little resistance to the police. The strikers treated me all right, and the crowds seemed good-natured. There was some resistance to the police, I believe, on the night of July 7, at Ashland avenue and the Northwestern tracks. The police fired and killed a woman on the roof of a house in the neighborhood."

Mr. Worthington: "How many were killed in all or who have since died in consequence of injuries received?"

Mr. Hopkins: "About seven, I think in Chicago. Three at Forty-seventh and Loomis streets, one at Kensington, the woman just mentioned, and I think two others."

Mr. Worthington: "Please state about the militia engaged during the strike."

Mr. Hopkins: "I will read my copy of the telegram to the governor to which I referred. The next day I again telegraphed the governor suggesting that five regiments be placed at the disposal of the city. In one half hour I received an answer stating that the militia had been ordered to report. There was virtually the entire militia of the state in service, probably 2,000 men. The last detachment went home August 6."

Mr. Worthington: "You have stated that you gave orders to suspend officers at certain crossings. Why was that?"

Mr. Hopkins: "The officers complained that people jumped over the fences and that they could not prevent them. The Rock Island road is protected on each side of the right-of-way by low fences, and empty freight cars were standing for many blocks on the side track next the fence. The people who lived near the tracks could easily jump the fence unseen and tip the cars over. I ordered the men suspended for the general effect it would have on the force."

Mr. Worthington: "I would like to ask a general question. As mayor of the city, do you think the police, or a portion of them, either directly or indirectly, took a part in promoting the strike in any way?"

Mr. Hopkins: "I would not deny that some of the men had sympathy with the strikers. I am in sympathy myself with the Pullman strikers."

Mr. Worthington: "But do you think the police did their duty?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir. Several times Mr. Eagan telephoned that trouble was occurring at some point. When officers would investigate they would find no trouble at all. There are 2,100 miles of railway in the city limits; there are 1,360 trains daily, 160 railroad crossings, and 3,000 surface railroad crossings. The police force for this year is scheduled at 1,928 patrolmen. There are 186 square miles of territory in the city and you can readily see that every point could not be covered at once. The amount of violence was not very great. In Pullman not one pane of glass was broken in the three months of the strike. I live in Pullman myself."

Mr. Worthington: "You may state whether at any time you advised the American Railway Union or its members to strike?"

Mr. Hopkins: "No, sir."

Mr. Worthington: "Did the General Manager's Association either during or since the strike request the city to arrest any individual strikers or suggest such arrest?"

Mr. Hopkins: "No, sir; I think that President Newell swore out a warrant for a man named Hall, but the information was furnished by the city."

Mr. Worthington: "Has the American Railway Union brought in any information of this character?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir; in the case of Hall, who was charged with turning over cars; also in other cases, which upon investigation we concluded not to take up."

Mr. Worthington: "Then the disposition of the American Railway Union appears to have been to assist the city?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir."

Mr. Worthington: "During or before the strike were there any overtures made in regard to arbitration?"

Mr. Hopkins: "I met Mr. Pullman at lunch in the Chicago club one day and he told me of a meeting his employes had held. Then July 3, there was a further talk about protecting the works on the following day when trouble might be expected. There was some talk about a settlement, but the company seemed to regard the strikers as law breakers. Then a committee of the council was appointed, and word sent to Mr. Eagan, but he said he couldn't come. Then the committee called at Mr. Pullman's office to discuss the question of arbitration—or if there was anything to arbitrate. The answer received there was that the company refused to arbitrate. July 11, I received a telegram from Mayor Pingree of Detroit, asking if I would act with him in endeavoring to settle the strike. He had communications from fifty other mayors giving their views on the question. We saw Mr. Wickes, Mr. Runnels and Mr. Brown, and had a long interview. Mayor Pingree took the point that arbitration should be tested, and made a strong argument. He is a member of a shoe manufacturing firm and related his own experience in a strike of nine months' duration. Mr. Wickes, Mr. Runnels and Mr. Brown withdrew and prepared a statement giving the position of the company and declining the proposition. On July 13, Mr. Debs, Mr. Howard, and Mr. Kelliher prepared a communication to the railway managers offering to settle the strike if the railroads would re-instate the men as individuals or such men as had committed no overt acts. With Mr. McGillen I went over with the document to Mr. St. John. What occurred there has been published. Now, while I think of it, I want to say that the statement published in some papers that Mr. St. John told me I should not act as a messenger boy for the American Railway Union is false. I deny most emphatically that Mr. St. John used those words. I should not have allowed it. This was the last action on my part to bring about a settlement.

"It has been said that I protested against the presence of the federal troops in the city. I do say that the railways had never complained that the civil authorities were unable to protect the roads. I have never protested against the federal troops and think they did some good."

Mr. Worthington: "It has been stated in the press that you applied to Mr. Debs to move trains."

Mr. Hopkins: "That is not true. A man named Brenock has a contract with the city to remove dead animals, the place where they are rendered being over the Indiana state line. He called upon me and said that there was a train load of dead animals at the stock yards which could not be pulled out; the men had quit work. I said I thought a volunteer crew of trainmen could be procured which would do the work. I sent my secretary to the American Railway Union with that request. A crew went down to the yards and manned the train. When it proceeded some distance it was discovered that a train load of dressed beef had been substituted and the train crew abandoned the cars. The dead animals then remained where they were for several days."

Mr. Kernan: "Then this action was simply a plan to guard the public health?"

Mr. Hopkins: "Yes, sir; simply to remove the dead animals from the city limits."

At the conclusion of Mayor Hopkins' testimony, President Carroll D. Wright arose and declared the commission formally adjourned until Wednesday, Sept. 26, at Washington, D. C.