Volume 5 — Queries.

ARE OUR LISTS OF ENGLISH SOVEREIGNS COMPLETE?

It must have often occurred to students of English history that the current and usual lists of English sovereigns somewhat arbitrarily reject all mention of some who, though for short periods, have enjoyed the regal position and power in this country. There will at once occur to every reader the names (first) of the Empress Maud, who, in a charter, dated Oxford in 1141, styled herself "Matilda Imperatrix, Henrici regis filia, et Anglorum Domina;" (secondly) the young King Henry, the crowned son of Henry II.; and (thirdly) Lady Jane Grey, who, in a few public and private documents, is cited as "Jane, Queen of England, Domina Jana, Dei Gratia Angliæ, Franciæ et Hiberniæ Regina," &c.

I am desirous now of calling the attention of your historical readers to the second case, my attention to the subject having been specially directed thereto by recently consulting the Chronicon Petroburgense (edited for the Camden Society by Mr. Stapleton), in which occur various notices of Henry, the crowned son of Henry II., as Henry III. I beg to quote these passages. Under the year MCLXIX. the chronicler records that—

"Hic fecit Henricus Rex coronare filium suum ab archiepiscopo Eborum."

Sir Harris Nicholas, in his Chronology of History, states that he was crowned on Sunday the 14th June, 1170. Benedictus Albus Roger, of Wendover (Flowers of History), says that "A.D. 1170, on the 13th of July," the king's eldest son was crowned by Roger, Archbishop of York.

His wife Marguerite, of France, was also afterwards crowned in England, in consequence of her father's complaint that she had not been included in the former coronation of her husband, Henry the younger (Rex Henricus junior), as he was commonly styled in this country; li reys Josves in the Norman language, and lo reis Joves in the dialect of the southern provinces of France. He himself afterwards assumed the title of Henry III. regarding his father as virtually dead, owing to the fond, but thoughtless, assertion of his indulgent sire, at the period of the son's coronation, that "from that day forward the royalty ceased to belong to him,"—"se regem non esse protestari." (Vit. B. Thomæ, lib. ii. cap. 31.)

The Chronicon Petroburgense, again, under the year 1183, records the death of the younger king in these words, "Obiit Henricus tertius rex, filius Henrici regis;" and afterwards notices the monarch usually styled Henry III. as "Henricus rex iiii.tus," Henry IV. Sir Harris Nicholas says, that Henry the younger is also "called by chroniclers Henry III."

It is a curious point, because such a distinction must often surely have been made in the days of the jointly reigning Henrys, and immediately after that time. The father and son certainly seemed to have been regarded as for years jointly reigning. For example, Roger of Wendover records that, in 1175, William of Scotland declared himself the liegeman of Henry, for the kingdom of Scotland and all his dominions, and did homage and allegiance to him as his especial lord, "and to Henry the king's son, saving his faith to his father." In the following year both went through England, "promising justice to every one, both clergy and laity, which promise they afterwards fully performed." (Roger of Wendover.) Surely, then, for distinction sake, if not as a matter of right and custom, the younger Henry should have been always styled Henry III.; and if so, while he (not to mention the Empress Maud and Queen Jane) shall remain excluded, therefore, may I not again with some show of reason ask, are our lists of English sovereigns complete?

J. J. S.

The Cloisters, Temple.

Minor Queries.

Marriage Tithe in Wales.

—Has Tithe of Marriage Goods (called in Welsh "Degwm Priodas") been ever demanded or paid in recent times? This appears to have often been the custom since the act of parliament (about 1549) declaring such tithe to be illegal: but will the custom of three centuries (if such a custom has anywhere continued) confer a right to this peculiar tithe, in spite of the act of parliament? What was the nature of this tithe? and was it paid by either party in case of widowhood?

H. H. H. V.

"Preached in a Pulpit rather than a Tub."

—The following couplet is all that I remember of a poem which was the subject of a violent newspaper controversy, I think about 1818. Can any one tell me where to find the rest?

H. B. C.

U. U. C.

Lord Wharton's Bibles.

—In some parishes there are given away, as a reward for learning, certain Psalms and Prayers, Bibles bearing the inscription "the gift of Philip Lord Wharton." How are these Bibles to be obtained for any particular parish?

SYLVA, M.A.

Reed Family.

—In A Perfect Diurnall of some Passages in Parliament and the dayly Proceedings of the Army under his Excellency the Lord Fairfax, April 20, 1649, No. 298., mention is made of one Lieut.-Col. John Reed, governor, under Fairfax, of the town and county of Poole, the first town making a public "demonstration of adhesion to the present Parliament sitting at Westminster." A note by Sir James Mackintosh, to whom this volume belonged, leads me to inquire whether any of your readers can afford information as to the subsequent career of this John Reed, and whether he can be identified by any local history as connected with either the Dorset or Devon families of that name.

F. S. A.

Paternoster Row.

Slavery in Scotland.

—In the Scottish Antiquarian Society's Museum in Edinburgh there is a brass collar with the following inscription:

"Alexander Stewart, found guilty of death for theft at Perth, December 5, 1701—gifted by the Justiciaries as a perpetual servant to Sir John Areskine of Aloa."

When was this custom done away with?

E. F. L.

Leslie, Bishop of Down.

—Can any of your correspondents give any information as to the father of Henry Leslie, some time Bishop of Down and Connor, and who was promoted at the Restoration to the bishopric of Meath, where he died?

E. F. L.

Chaplains to the Forces.

—When was this appointment first made? and where is any list of the successive chaplains to be found?

G.

John of Horsill.

—Could either of your correspondents favour me with an account of this worthy? Tradition states he held the manors of Ribbesford and Highlington, near Bewdley (Worcestershire), about the twelfth century. Several legends, approaching very near to facts, are extant in this neighbourhood concerning him; one of the best authenticated is as follows:

Hunting one day near the Severn, he started a fine buck, which took the direction of the river; fearing to lose it, he discharged an arrow, which, piercing it through, continued its flight, and struck a salmon, which had (as is customary with such fish in shallow streams) leaped from the surface of the water, with so much force as to transfix it. This being thought a very extraordinary shot (as indeed it was), a stone carving representing it was fixed over the west door of Ribbesford Church, then in course of erection. A description of this carving is, I believe, in Nash's History of Worcestershire, but without any mention of the legend. The carving merely shows a rude human figure with a bow, and a salmon transfixed with an arrow before it. A few facts concerning this "John of Horsill" would be hailed with much pleasure by your well wisher,

H. CORVILLE WARDE.

Kidderminster.

St. Crispin's Day.

—In the parishes of Cuckfield and Hurst-a-point in Sussex, it is still the custom to observe St. Crispin's day, and it is kept with much rejoicing. The boys go round asking for money in the name of St. Crispin, bonfires are lighted, and it passes off very much in the same way as the fifth of November does. It appears, from an inscription on a monument to one of the ancient family of Bunell in the parish church of Cuckfield, that a Sir John Bunell attended Henry V. to France in the year 1415, with one ship, twenty men-at-arms, and forty archers; and it is probable that the observance of this day in that neighbourhood is connected with that fact. If so, though the names of—

have ceased to be "familiar as household words" in the mouths of the people, yet it is a curious proof for what length of time a usage may be transmitted, though the origin of it may be lost.

If any of your correspondents can inform me whether St. Crispin's Day is observed in their neighborhood, and, if so, whether such cases can be connected, as in the present instance, with some old warrior of Agincourt, they will much oblige

R. W. B.

Poniatowski Gems.

—When were these gems sold in London, and where can I get particulars of the prices, purchasers' names, &c., and any critical remarks upon them that may have appeared on the time of the sale?

A. O. O. D.

Why Cold Pudding settles one's Love?

—At a Christmas party, recently, the question occurred "Whence the origin of the supposed attribute of cold plum pudding of settling one's love?" No one present being able to give a satisfactory solution, it was agreed that I should take your opinion on the subject. I therefore ask, How old is the saying? and to what part of England or Great Britain may it be traced?

AN "F. S. A." WHO LOVES PUDDING.

Minor Queries Answered.

Poem by Camden.

—Where is the Latin poem by Camden, De Connubio Thamæ et Isis, to be found?

Camden (in Britannia, sine Regnorum Anglæ Chorographica Descriptio, folio, London, 1607) quotes very largely from this poem, of which he is the reputed author, viz., page 215, 19 lines; page 272-3, 64 lines; page 302, 12 lines.

Dr. Kippis, Biographia Britannica, article "Camden," in vol. iii., assigns the poem to Camden; and Dr. Robert Watt, Bibliotheca Britannica, speaks of it under Isis, and refers to a translation of it by Basil Kennet, the brother of White Kennet, Bishop of Peterborough.

These authorities induce me to think either the Latin poem, or the translation, must be in existence, though, I regret to say, I cannot find either.

QUÆRO.

[A query relating to this poem has already appeared, see "N. & Q." Vol. ii., p 392. Having investigated it, we are inclined to think, that only those portions of it which appear in the Britannia have been published. Mr. Salmon, in his Hertfordshire, p. 3., speaking of the word Tamesis being a compound of the two rivers Tame and Isis, says, "Of this Mr. Camden was so assured, that he hath left us an elegant poem upon the marriage of these two streams in his Britannia." As to Dr. Basil Kennet's translation, it is clear from Bishop Gibson's Preface, p. xiv., that he only translated what has been given in this work. The Bishop says, "The verses which occur in Mr. Camden's text were translated by Mr. Kennet, of Corpus Christi College in Oxford."]

Marches of Wales and Lords Marchers.—Can any of your correspondents define briefly the Marches of Wales, what localities were comprehended within the Marches, the meaning of the word, as also the term Lords Marchers? Is there any work in which explanation sought can be found?

G.

[Consult Camden's Britannia, by Gibson, vol. i. p. 470., vol. ii. p. 199.; Warrington's History of Wales, vol. i. pp. 369-384.; and Penny Cyclopædia, art. Marches.]