Volume 4 — Queries.

THE LADY ELIZABETH HORNER OR MONTGOMERY.

In some curious manuscript memoirs of the family of Horner of Mells, co. Somerset, written probably about the middle of the last century, I find the following statement:—

"The gentleman at Mells last mentioned, whose name I don't know, had his eldest son George, who succeeded him at Mells. He married the Countess of Montgomery, supposed to be the widow of that earl, who, in tilting with Henry II., King of France caused his death by a splinter of his spear running into the king's eye. But most probably she was the widow of that lord's son, which I conjecture from the distance of the time of that king's death to her death, which must needs be near seventy years, as she lived at Cloford to the year 1628. She must certainly be a considerable heiress, as several estates came with her into the family, and, among others, Postlebury-woods in particular, and, possibly, also the Puddimore estate; as her son, Sir John Horner, was the first of the family that presented a clerk to that living in 1639, viz., William Kemp, who was afterwards one of the suffering clergy. Her jointure was a 500l. a-year, which was very considerable at that time."

Can any of your readers assist in elucidating this story, of which no existing family records afford any corroboration, and which the parochial registers of the neighbourhood appear rather to invalidate in some of its statements? As far as we can gather from such sources, the gentleman alluded to in the extract was not George but Thomas Horner, born 1547, M.P. for Somersetshire 1585, and sheriff 1607, who was buried 1612. He married three times: first, Elizabeth Pollard, who died, as well as her only son John in 1573; secondly, Jane Popham, who died 1591, having had, amongst other issues, Sir John, born about 1580; and thirdly, as it would seem, a person called "The Lady Elizabeth," who had issue Edward, born 1597, and who was buried at Cloford, in 1599. Even allowing for the errors attendant upon a tradition, it is scarcely possible that this "Lady Elizabeth" should have been widow of Count Gabriel de Montgomery,—Elizabeth de la Zouch,—who married her first husband in 1549, and was left a widow in 1574. She might have been widow of one of his sons; though the only two mentioned in the Biographie Universelle, Gabriel and Jacques, left issue, to whom their wives' property would have probably descended.

The whole matter, as far as I have been able to examine it, is a very obscure one, and yet can hardly, I should think, be without some foundation in fact. The title-deeds of Postlebury and Puddimore perhaps would throw light upon it.

C. W. B.

POPE AND FLATMAN.

I possess a small volume entitled Manchester al Mondo; Contemplations of Death and Immortality, by the Earl of Manchester: the 15th edit., 1688. At the end are appended several short but quaint poems on the subject of mortality. One of them is stated to be taken from the "incomparable Poems by the ingenious Mr. Thomas Flatman," and is entitled "A Thought of Death." I have transcribed it side by side with Pope's celebrated ode, "The Dying Christian to his Soul," in which some lines run remarkably parallel. Is it probable Pope borrowed his idea of the fine couplet,

from Flatman? If not, the coincidence is remarkable: has it been noticed before? Perhaps some of your readers may be better able to enter into the subject than he who communicates this.

WILLIAM BARTON.

19. Winchester Place, Southwark Bridge Road.

Minor Queries.

80. Southampton Brasses.

—French Church, otherwise God's House, Southampton. About eight or nine years ago, two monumental brasses were discovered, in making some alterations in this church. I should feel greatly obliged to any correspondent who could give me a description of them, and inform me if they are still to be found there.

W. W. KING.

81. Borough-English.

—Which are the towns or districts in England in which Borough-English prevails or has prevailed; and are there any instances on record of its being carried into effect in modern times?

W. FRASER.

82. Passage in St. Bernard.

—Wordsworth's Ecclesiastical Sonnets, Part II. 1.:

Note.—"Bonum est nos hic esse, quia homo vivit purius, cadit rarius, surgit velocius, incedit cautius, quiescit securius, moritur felicius, purgatur citius, præmiatur copiosius."—Bernard.

"This sentence," says Dr. Whitaker, "is usually inscribed in some conspicuous part of the Cistertian houses." I cannot find in St. Bernard's works the passage to which Wordsworth's sonnet alludes, though I often see it referred to: e. g. Whitehead's College Life, p. 44., 1845; and Mrs. Jameson's Legends of the Monastic Orders, Preface. Can any of your correspondents direct me to it?

RT.

83. Spenser's Faerie Queene (b. ii. c. ix. st. 22.).—

Warton (Observations on the Fairy Queen, vol. i. p. 121.) says that the philosophy of this abstruse stanza describing the Castle of Alma is explained in a learned epistle of Sir Kenelm Digby addressed to Sir Edward Stradling. In a foot-note he states that this epistle was—

"First printed in a single pamphlet, viz., Observations on XXII Stanza, &c., Lond. 1644, 8vo. It is also published in Scrinia Sacra, 4to. pag. 244. London, 1654."

Could any of your readers, acquainted with Sir Kenelm Digby's works, give his explanation of this stanza? There is no note on it in the one-volume edition of Spenser lately published by Moxon. The best explanation of it that I have seen is in the Athenæum, August 12, 1848.

E. M. B.

84. Broad Halfpenny Down.

—There is a beautiful chalk down in the parish of Hambledon, Hants, which goes by the above name, pronounced, of course, ha'penny, like the coin. Can any of your antiquarian readers give me the origin of this name? I have no doubt that the present appellation is a corruption of some British or Saxon word, having, when spoken, a sound somewhat analogous to the modern word into which it has been converted. The "Broad Down" had a name of its own, I doubt not, before the existence of either a penny or halfpenny.

EFFARESS.

85. Roll Pedigree of Howard, of Great Howard, Co. Lancaster.

—In 1826 an elaborate pedigree on vellum of the family of Howard, of Great Howard, in Rochdale, deduced, authenticated, and subscribed by Sir William Dugdale, about the year 1667, was in the possession of a gentleman in Rochdale, lately deceased. He is supposed to have lent it to some antiquarian friend, and its present locale is unknown. As no record of this singular document exists in the College of Arms, the writer of this note would feel obliged by being permitted to have a copy of the original for his Lancashire M.S. Collections.

F. R. R.

86. Rev. John Paget, of Amsterdam.

—Of what family was John Paget, pastor of the Reformed English church at Amsterdam for thirty years? He died there 1639, and his works were published 1641, being edited by Thomas Paget, who was, according to his own account, "called to the work of ministry many years ago in Chester diocese," and R. Paget, who writes a Preface "from Dort, 1641." Perhaps the editors of the "NAVORSCHER" may be able to give some information on the subject.

CRANMORE.

87. Visiting Cards.

—When did these social conveniencies first come into use?

OUTIS.

88. Duke de Berwick and Alva.

—A sword amongst the Spanish jewels in the Great Exhibition is said to be ordered by "S. E. Jacques Stuart, Duc de Berwick and Alva." Is this a descendant of James II.'s illegitimate son, the Duke of Berwick? and if so, can any of your correspondents give me any information as to his descent, &c.?

L.

89. The Earl of Derwentwater.

—The first earl, Francis, had several sons—Francis his successor, Edward died unmarried, Thomas a military officer, Arthur, &c. Can any of your readers inform me in which army this Thomas was an officer, whom he married, and where he died? The family name was Radcliffe.

BROCTUNA.

Bury, Lancashire.

90. "But very few have seen the Devil."

—Can any of your readers inform me where some lines are to be found which run somewhat thus?—I cannot remember the intermediate lines:—

W. FRASER.

Hordley, near Ellesmere, Aug. 4. 1851.

91. Aulus Gellius' Description of a Dimple.

—The poet Gray, writing to his friend Mr. West, asks him to guess where the following description of a dimple is found:

Mr. West replies in the following letter:

"Your fragment is Aulus Gellius; and both it and your Greek delicious."

I have never met with it in Aulus Gellius, and should be glad to find it.

RT.

92. Forgotten Authors of the Seventeenth Century.

—Can any of your correspondents point out any biographical particulars relative to the following authors of the seventeenth century?

1. WILLIAM PARKES, Gentleman, and sometimes student in Barnard's Inne, author of The Curtaine-drawer of the World, 1612.

2. PETER WOODHOUSE, author of The Flea; sic parva componere magnis, 1605.

3. ROWLAND WATKINS, a native of Herefordshire; author of Flamma sine Fumo, or Poems without Fictions, 1662.

4. RICHARD WEST, author of The Court of Conscience, or Dick Whipper's Sessions, 1607.

EDWARD F. RIMBAULT.

Minor Queries Answered.

Sundays, on what Days of the Month?

—Is there any printed book which tells on what days of the several months the Sundays in each year occurred, during the last three or four centuries?

If there be more such books than one, which of them is the best and most accessible?

H. C.

[The most accessible works are Sir Harris Nicolas' Chronology of History, and Companion to the Almanack for 1830, pp. 32, 33. Consult also L'Art de Vérifier les Dates and, above all, Professor De Morgan's Book of Almanacks.]

John Lilburne.

—A list of the pamphlets published by, or relating to, John Lilburne, or any facts respecting his life or works, will be of service to one who is collecting for a biography of "Free-born John."

EDWARD PEACOCK, Jun.

Bottesford Moors, Kirton in Lindsey.

[Watt's Bibliotheca Britannica contains a list of Lilburne's pamphlets, which would occupy two pages of "NOTES AND QUERIES!" A collection of tracts relating to Lilburne, 1646, 4to., 2 vols., will be found in the Towneley Catalogue, Part I. p. 636. Sold for 1l. 13s. Truth's Victory over Tyrants, being the Trial of John Lilburne, London, 1649, 4to., contains a portrait of him standing at the bar. Butler, in Hudibrus, Part III., Canto ii., has vividly drawn his character in the paragraph commencing at line 421.:—

"This character," says Dr. Grey, "exactly suits John Lilburne and no other. For it was said of him, when living, by Judge Jenkins, 'That if the world was emptied of all but himself, Lilburne would quarrel with John, and John with Lilburne;' which part of his character gave occasion for the following lines at his death:—

"Lilburne died a Quaker, August 28, 1657. See Mercurius Politicus, No. 379. p. 1597.; Mr. Peek's Desiderata Curiosa, from Mr. Smith's Obituary, vol. ii. lib. xiv. p. 30. Also a character of Lilburne, in Thurloe's State Papers, vol. iii. p. 512; and an account of his obstinacy, in his Trial, reprinted in the State Trials."]